OFFICIAL YoYo Games Is Now Part Of Opera

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Xer0botXer0

Senpai
I believe the reason people are still discussing subscriptions so many days after the announcement is that there truly is nothing better to discuss. :squirrel:

My bad, I was still on page 3 of this topic. :D
nvm this post!
 
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gnysek

Member
Sorry @Xer0botXer0 but you mentioned subs, so you're forced to watch this happy sub!



Going back to "future considerations" article, I remember that GMS 2.3 (during beta, or even now) got some mentions in translations/layouts about Particle Editor, so I hope that Opera will push to not only mention it, but also add it to IDE in one of next versions. What's fun, particles editor doesn't require too much work on runner side, as functions are already in, but still it's a complex thing cause I believe we can use particles in room editor and sequences then.
There were also two other things from that list, which got evidence left in manual once by mistake, but as about 2 years already passed seems that those were only mockups of how this could look in IDE, and no real code was made, so I won't mention them. Still, would be nice to see them on Roadmap soon.
 

Yal

🐧 *penguin noises*
GMC Elder
Considering some comments... It might not be playtech's fault, or anything about Opera. Every year GM updates, it always leaves that silent awkward in the air.
I mean...
Instead of having this..

wth hasked for this...
Hmmm, this is important to me. I'm about to make a lot of GMS animations in the next weeks. Should I wait? Use the current system? Use Spine? Hmmm.
Skeletal animation in pure GML isn't rocket science (I mean, even I managed to get it working) and lets you read arbitrary points... want your character to have mud on their feet after walking in a swamp? Just read the foot bones directly...
so i'm totally saying that my system is objectively superior and y'all should use it

Sequences are mostly useful for bigger cutscenes, i've used them in a bunch of games. You can also just use an inert sequence to group objects together, which is useful for things like moving tanks/battleships with a lot of moving parts, or rooms for a procedural generation system. Good luck doing that with Spine sprites...


Going back to "future considerations" article, I remember that GMS 2.3 (during beta, or even now) got some mentions in translations/layouts about Particle Editor, so I hope that Opera will push to not only mention it, but also add it to IDE in one of next versions. What's fun, particles editor doesn't require too much work on runner side, as functions are already in, but still it's a complex thing cause I believe we can use particles in room editor and sequences then.
There were also two other things from that list, which got evidence left in manual once by mistake, but as about 2 years already passed seems that those were only mockups of how this could look in IDE, and no real code was made, so I won't mention them. Still, would be nice to see them on Roadmap soon.
A particle editor would be really nice! Being able to preview properties in action so you can fine-tune them would make it a lot easier to make cool particle effects, I mostly reuse the same 10 effects over and over with very small tweaks.
 

HalRiyami

Member
With respect to the particle editor, correct me if I'm wrong, but what you're asking for would either require on the fly compilation and I think YYG knows how desperately we want an official GMLive, or they would have to bake a particle editor like GeonFX into the runner that either spits out code or creates a new resource type called particles, which would be cool btw.

I just think the particle system in general needs some rework. I tried it a few times but found it to be too heavy on my cpu even though it's touted as lightweight. Slap me silly but what I want is a gpu based particle system.
 

matharoo

Tutorial Guy
YYG Staff
There must be something cooking, as when I'm opening GMS2 installation dir, that's what I see:
View attachment 37537
However, size of those files (16 and 32kb) means they are only placeholders for now. Maybe they kind of plugins, and for stable builds an empty plugin is rendered.
Maybe it's a hidden secret and they're waiting for the best DLL developer to decrypt those files and unlock the legendary particle editor!

@Samuel Venable pls
 

Kezarus

Member
A particle editor would be really nice! Being able to preview properties in action so you can fine-tune them would make it a lot easier to make cool particle effects, I mostly reuse the same 10 effects over and over with very small tweaks.
Ow! I have a particle editor on my Framework where you can import your GML code directly, tweek it and export it as GML. It's not like an actual GM tool, but it's something. Check it out, it's free. It's not absolutely amazing, it just works. I mean, who am I?, just another passer by trying to help others, and if my small effort actually do something I will be more than happy.
1611919982249.png
 
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gnysek

Member
best DLL developer to decrypt those files
I wish we could find one, maybe (s)he will make unofficial documentation about plugins ;) Which I hope Opera gonna put on their list, but that's something that requires lot of work, so for sure not yet this year.
 

jonjons

Member
Skeletal animation in pure GML isn't rocket science (I mean, even I managed to get it working) and lets you read arbitrary points... want your character to have mud on their feet after walking in a swamp? Just read the foot bones directly...
so i'm totally saying that my system is objectively superior and y'all should use it
But it only works with spine. Most people including me have spriter pro, but i never really used it.
But i dont understand... ? did you build a Skeletal animation using only GML ? how do you store the data... and deform the images ?
 

FrostyCat

Member
Any discussion on sprite "attachment points" that does not also involve hierarchical transformations is unsustainable. The current GML vogue of manually calculating the "attachment points" using lengthdir_* functions is unmanageably verbose past one or two joints, cannot be reused in composition, and fails to generalize properly to situations where the sprite is under the effects of most affine transformations other than translation.
 
Well, just adding my grain of salt to this news. I personally have switched to Microsoft Edge as my web browser. After a big heartache computer loss 2 years ago, I had to resigne to use an older computer someone gave me. So system resources is very important. I was a fervant Firefox user until it became slow. I am totally against Google Chrome as it is useless to me. So I did try some of the main ones, such as Opera and Opera GX. Still, on the memory side of things, Firefox and Opera gave me no differences in speed and resources.

Until I fell on Edge (chromium based). I cannot say that the resource is half less, but it's not just a few mb less in memory. I gained in speed and efficiency using the new Microsoft Edge. I do however hate the very rigid GUI with big lacks of customizations of any chromium based browsers (which is why I was a Firfox user). For example, my bookmarks button was always positioned on the far left before my address bar and before the back and forward buttons. I am using NO user accounts so having a constant user button is useless to me in the toolbar. I had also arraanged my address bar to be on the left side of my tabs giving me one single space at the very top of my browser for everything, buttons, tabs and address bar. Now, I have to support this rigid GUI with wasted space, to my humble opinion.

When running Opera GX, I was impressed by it's looks, but got easily lost in the hordes of useless addons I litterally do not need. Twitch, twitter, discord, etc. I don't care at all about these things. But, AGAIN, it's oriented for those heavy on game, gameplay, game sharing etc.... But nothing can rival, for now at least, against Microsoft Edge's ease on resources. And for many years, I have never really used opera as my browser. So again, switching to Opera is not in my futur plans even though I most love Game Maker and still am encouraging it even when they changed the entire GUI to something I cannot bear until I finish redoing a new theme that best suites me.

I AM curious into what will YoYo Games do with a browser that it cannot do by it's own because focussing in integrating it's own proprietary things into one single browser, to me, is not very logical because people will not simply switch to Opera GX because of YYG. We all have our prefered browsers. I would have possibly understood the creation of a addon or extension for chromium browsers such as Chrome, Edge, Brave, etc.... But to associate with Opera GX, to me, without any real news in what will be improved or used and what pushed the decision of choosing opera over other browsers? I'm still puzzled.

That's my remarks, as usefull or useless as it can be, thanks for sharing those news with us YYG :)
 

Posh Indie

Member
"Make it easier for novices" and "Make it used more by commercial studios" is going to an interesting dynamic.

Things I hope to see come from this:
  • Multi threading/processing (Come on now, who did not see that coming?).
    • The engine itself, as well as user enablement.
  • The ability for end-users to modify the IDE/engine.
    • We could make our editors with their own windows and such.
    • We could add our own features ourselves that are not prioritized internally.
  • Better Shader support. Update it and give us the rest of it (Not just the vertex and fragment shaders...).
  • If we get the multi threading/processing; A true headless mode for dedicated servers.
  • Re-hire @Mike. I miss the guy. I need someone to argue with while holding no grudges. Seriously. I have an emotional hole in my GameMaker life right now.
Things I hope not to see come from this:
  • Super heavy focus on drag and drop and the sprite editor (It happens every time).
  • The DELL/Apple effect (You can only do this with this because it is ours and you can only use ours).
Some ideas that would make the novice life easier while being beneficial to all:
  • An internally maintained input management system. We have all we need to handle it ourselves, but I see a lot of people getting caught up on it. For the rest of us it is just "A little less work to do". Why not?
  • Customizable IDE UI (Helped by the ability for end-users to modify the IDE/engine). Many people want the old UI back, many people are okay with the new UI. Letting us modify it to our own personal needs would be pretty nice for everyone (Even the crazy ones in the group that just want to make it their own).
Hoping for the best, always prepared for the worst. No matter what happens, I will not be disappointed. If it goes north, I will be surprised. If it goes south, I will be indifferent.

Good luck YoYo Games and Opera. I hope this works out for everyone (Probably could not be any worse than PlayTech being involved, so there is that).
 
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gnysek

Member
But please, please, don't switch IDE to Electron :p That would take too much time to recreate everything and YYG just removed Chromium Embedded Framework (CEF) from GMS 2.3.2 saving 80MB of installer. Of course GMEdit which is based on electron (is atom same thing?) too have some nice options, but instead we can get them in C# IDE.
And I would welcome official Linux support for IDE, sadly this is not a whishlist.
 

mykyl66

Member
So is it a good time to finally move to Game maker 2? I never upgraded. As long as it's not going free for certain versions at any point soon with this change of owner then I will be fine with paying. It's just for fun now not business.
 

Coercive

Member
On the bright side... at least Adobe didn't acquire it. Given how many products they buy and milk and then end.
With that being said... I see no problem with the new coats in the driving seat. As long as we are able to keep doing what we enjoy doing most. Hopefully they won't be so silent and come communicate with us here on the forums...
 

EvanSki

Raccoon Jam Host
There must be something cooking, as when I'm opening GMS2 installation dir, that's what I see:
View attachment 37537
However, size of those files (16 and 32kb) means they are only placeholders for now. Maybe they kind of plugins, and for stable builds an empty plugin is rendered.
Maybe it's a hidden secret and they're waiting for the best DLL developer to decrypt those files and unlock the legendary particle editor!

@Samuel Venable pls
I can say that if anyone wanted to they can view the Dlls in a hex editor such as HxD and view the raw text strings for personal use and not to reverse engineer or decompile any asset of GMS as such would break the EULA
reading the strings does none of the aforementioned things in the EULA TO MY KNOWLDGE

I will also add these dlls are from before OPERA bought yoyo so I can assume this is a 100% yoyo thing they themselves are doing

Ahem, how to say this without it biting me?
All of the info Im providing is 100% GUESS WORK, I will not tell you how i formed my speculations other then guess work and assumptions
If a mod finds any of this against the forum rules or as such then please delete it
I can confirm I did no such acts in any way that break the EULA to my knowledge or actions
As far as I know I only broke the rule about speculation but from what I understand its welcomed in an official statement from yoyo



NetParticleSystemBinder contains functions that I assume are the
GML:
get_RGB1 set_RGB1 IEnumerable`1 ICollection`1 IEnumerator`1 IList`1
get_RGB2 set_RGB2 IDictionary`2
get_RGB3 set_RGB3
get_RGB set_RGB
get_X set_X get_ScaleX set_ScaleX get_scaleX set_scaleX
get_Y set_Y get_ScaleY set_ScaleY get_scaleY set_scaleY
get_Alpha
set_Alpha
get_Idset_Idget_ParticleTypeId
set_ParticleTypeId
get_UpdateParticleTypeId
set_UpdateParticleTypeId
get_DeathParticleTypeId
set_DeathParticleTypeId
get_EmitterIdset_EmitterIdAdd
get_PlaybackSpeedset_PlaybackSpeedspeed
get_Enabled
set_Enabled

Particle editor i assume is a work-in-progress editor
Code:
Particle Editor-Adds a particle editor3wonderland_edit_particles)open_particle_editorAEdits a particle system resource
createParticleEditorCreateEditor۩c:\hudson\ZeusBase\ZeusGreen\YoYoStudio\IDE\Plugins\ParticleEditor\Modules\Module.cs
canvas
tracks=RoomEditor/icon_RE_bglayer.pngbackground?ParticleEditor_ToggleBackgroundCParticleEditor_BackgroundSettingscombo_draworderSToolTip_eParticleSystemDrawOrder_OldFirstSToolTip_eParticleSystemDrawOrder_NewFirst#listbox_particles!btn_add_particle'btn_remove_particle!listbox_emittersbtn_add_emitter'label_particlecountlabel_drawtime!label_updatetime0Move origin    nameparticleTypesemitters#previewSpriteViewxoriginyorigin.)particle_emitter_odd+particle_emitter_evenParticleEmitter#CreateEmitterItem!particle_emitter%btn_remove_emitterbtn_type_browse7RemoveSelectedParticleTypesOMissing particle type attempted deleted7particle_type_list_item_odd9particle_type_list_item_evenAparticle_editor_background_imageSettingsLocalImagePathShowBackgroundBackgroundColor    Guid%ParticleTypeWindow/SpawnParticleTypeWindow€Ãc:\hudson\ZeusBase\ZeusGreen\YoYoStudio\IDE\Plugins\ParticleEditor\Modules\Module.ParticleType.cstabcontrol%ParticleTypeEditor=CreateParticleTypeEditorLayoutbtn_type_deathbtn_type_update#listview_textures;ListBoxEnum_ePartTypeTexture_)ParticleEditorModuleparticleIdPanAreaWorkspaceChain
spritelocal_image#
 
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Yal

🐧 *penguin noises*
GMC Elder
more news! I need more! not speculation!
Fun fact: 0.239% of humanity are software developers (statistics were from 2019 so it's probably a bit higher now). So knowing basic GM doesn't make you better at coding than 99.9% of humanity, but if you lower that to 99% flat...

(okay, not sure if statistics count as "news" but that's all I've got for now)
 

GMWolf

aka fel666
Fun fact: 0.239% of humanity are software developers (statistics were from 2019 so it's probably a bit higher now). So knowing basic GM doesn't make you better at coding than 99.9% of humanity, but if you lower that to 99% flat...

(okay, not sure if statistics count as "news" but that's all I've got for now)
Wow that's actually a lot of developers!
But how many of those are game developers?
 

gnysek

Member
Number of developers around world probably takes only those that are working in industry, so lot of GM users, which are hobbyists or not yet finished school/studies may not be taken into account in fact. Otherwise, GMS would be before Haskell and Perl, maybe even Scala and Objective-C, knowing how many new accounts YYG registered last year :p For sure GML is not last among programming languages :p
 

jonjons

Member
Fun fact: 0.239% of humanity are software developers (statistics were from 2019 so it's probably a bit higher now). So knowing basic GM doesn't make you better at coding than 99.9% of humanity, but if you lower that to 99% flat...

(okay, not sure if statistics count as "news" but that's all I've got for now)
I think GM takes a lot of coding. Except for the int or float, is simillar to C# and C++
 

gnysek

Member
Having any opinion about Opera acquiring YoYoGames based on what browser you like adds totally nothing into this conversation. Browser department have nothing to do with newly created Opera Gaming. Also except Firefox all browsers are now based on same codebase, and I must admit that Opera GX is most customized one, which means that company at least tries to distinguish from others, having same codebase. You know, it's like Citroen C1, Peugeot 107 and Toyota Aygo. They may sound like different cars, maybe on that list there's one company which you prefer, but in fact all are made in same factory in Czech Republic (not in Japan or France) and only body is different. So having opinion about any of those 3 companies basing on this car is not an opinion.
I think we can think about Opera Gaming as completely new and separate company which enters a new market for them, and don't connect it too much with browser market. Even if Opera shares on browser market would be so low, that they need to close company, that doesn't mean that Opera Gaming will have same troubles - it might be the one that will left intact.
 
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gnysek

Member
Maybe not only multiplayer functions, but networking functions in general, or Opera can even propose some cloud services (lobbies, cloudsaving, cross saving, statistics, and any API).

But I hope they won't include Chromium engine into executables, so our games won't become 70MB+ on empty exe :D
 

GMWolf

aka fel666
I dont think any sort of magical "Make my game multiplayer" functions of any quality can really exists, but as @gnysek said, functions and services for lobbies, High scores, analytics etc would be tremendously useful.
@Maa2007 unfortunately real time networking is difficult no matter how you slice it, and is highly specific to individual games. You may get away with a simple function to synchronize the position of objects, but actually getting it to work with the rest of your game systems is rather difficult, and not something a networking library cam assist you with.
 

gnysek

Member
Yep, networking is rather something that should get few detailed tutorials about how things can be made instead of adding new functionality, as lot of them are already there, but need to be used properly.
 
Better Shader support. Update it and give us the rest of it (Not just the vertex and fragment shaders...).
This catches my eye. They could support more shader languages (maybe?), but shaders are just that, a vertex and a fragment shader... Maybe you were thinking, CSS Html shaders? In that case, I don't see this as really useful, as those can't write pixels to the screen directly.
 

Caveman

Member
This catches my eye. They could support more shader languages (maybe?), but shaders are just that, a vertex and a fragment shader... Maybe you were thinking, CSS Html shaders? In that case, I don't see this as really useful, as those can't write pixels to the screen directly.
There are actually six shader types. GameMaker only exposes two, the vertex and fragment shader.

The other four types are the geometry, tessellation, compute, and primative shaders.
 
For a GM pro subscription benefit, giving us priority for bug fixing would be great.

Either that or just better HTML5 support since Opera is now the parent.

Patiently waiting for HTML5 and HTML5 Spine bugs to be fixed that don't have workarounds. Some of my customers suggested me to move on to a different engine, since HTML5 for this one doesn't seem too reliable. (In the past 2 years)
 
There are actually six shader types. GameMaker only exposes two, the vertex and fragment shader.

The other four types are the geometry, tessellation, compute, and primative shaders.
Good to know, I thought they were just...dunno how to properly word my thoughts, here...a pragma dependancies that gave access to more stuff, but it was all done in the vertex shader, kind of...
 

Lukan

Gay Wizard Freak
Let's keep the wild speculation low, please.
Are you new here?

Also, I've been gone for a while, check back, and YoYo's been sold again...
I literally have no recollection of PlayTech ever really getting involved with the community or the product, so I hope our new overlords are more public in the kingdom.
 

gnysek

Member
sold again
That's only second time in 14-year history. Also, as you can read in Michael Cassius bio on linkedin, YYG sale to Playtech was a "succesfull exit", which mean that company was for sure in good condition, and sale was a business decision as from beginning that was a investment for founders . I wouldn't then say "again", as first sale a usual sale of successful startup, and second was decision of Playtech to sell whole mobile / casual division. Playtech didn't seem to feel mobile industry at all, as among the list of games they made, I don't see anything that that seems familiar: https://www.playtech.com/products/retail/retail-games. I even doubt that any of those games was made in GMS, which means they totally didn't have idea how to deal with YYG, and how to be successful on mobile market. So maybe that's better they sold it, as it seems they really didn't have idea what to do with such a powerful tool in their hands.
 

gnysek

Member
I just noticed, that on Roadmap ( https://help.yoyogames.com/hc/en-us/articles/231719448-RoadMap ) on 29th of January they removed version numbering after 2.3.2 (so 2.3.3 or 2.4, or whatever) which may be one of changes already applied by Opera. There are 3 possibilities:
- nothing will change, they just removed it for now
- they gonna move from 2.X.Y (where X was big feature release, Y was bugfix/small features version), to 2.X only
- they gonna move from 2.X.Y to 2021.X or something totally new
I doubt they want to release 3.0, so it's not on list :)

Also, on Future Feature Consideration list ( https://help.yoyogames.com/hc/en-us/articles/360022211472-GMS2-Future-Feature-Considerations ) there's a big red info as it's no longer accurate, so I hope that at some point they gonna give us a new list.

But yeah, there are first small changes.
 

Yal

🐧 *penguin noises*
GMC Elder
There are 3 possibilities:
- nothing will change, they just removed it for now
- they gonna move from 2.X.Y (where X was big feature release, Y was bugfix/small features version), to 2.X only
- they gonna move from 2.X.Y to 2021.X or something totally new
Fourth possibility: they don't want to commit to one scheduled release per quarter, because people get equally upset when they're late and when they're on time but buggy?
 

gnysek

Member
Maybe (but they left Q2, Q3 and Q4 in table), and that's true that even if beta release of next version arrives 4-6 weeks before end of quarter, that doesn't mean stable won't be late (but this time I have a filling they gonna be on time, or even before). However, two weeks ago GMS version numbers were on that list.
 

rIKmAN

Member
Not going to speculate, but from what I've read and the seen/heard from YYG staff then this sounds like a very positive change.
My only hope is that it doesn't lead to a massive focus on HTML to the detriment of other exports.

Look forward to seeing what the future holds for GMS!
 

Zhanghua

Member
Not going to speculate, but from what I've read and the seen/heard from YYG staff then this sounds like a very positive change.
My only hope is that it doesn't lead to a massive focus on HTML to the detriment of other exports.

Look forward to seeing what the future holds for GMS!
seriously, yys' progress is too backward.
 
I have decided to test Opera GX for a while. I love the integration of Messenger because I overuse it to talk with my wife in the Philippines. BUT, A very huge and big BUT. Opera, compared to Microsoft Edge, does not permit me to open GMail. I get a HSTS error, something about a "pinned key" and I tried solutions to remove hsts data from the browser and does not work. ALSO, Opera GX takes a heck of a lot more resources than MS Edge. So I am really questionning why YoYo Games chose to add Opera to their team and I would really love to know how it will make Opera and/or GMS better. Because asside from a messenger side panel, I don't see a good reason to use Opera GX who also do not permit extensions that modify the SpeedDial startup page which I utterly hate. I simply open tabs and want my homepage to appear, that's all.

So I'd love to know more about why this mutual relationship is starting and where it plans to head to.
 

Zhanghua

Member
I have decided to test Opera GX for a while. I love the integration of Messenger because I overuse it to talk with my wife in the Philippines. BUT, A very huge and big BUT. Opera, compared to Microsoft Edge, does not permit me to open GMail. I get a HSTS error, something about a "pinned key" and I tried solutions to remove hsts data from the browser and does not work. ALSO, Opera GX takes a heck of a lot more resources than MS Edge. So I am really questionning why YoYo Games chose to add Opera to their team and I would really love to know how it will make Opera and/or GMS better. Because asside from a messenger side panel, I don't see a good reason to use Opera GX who also do not permit extensions that modify the SpeedDial startup page which I utterly hate. I simply open tabs and want my homepage to appear, that's all.

So I'd love to know more about why this mutual relationship is starting and where it plans to head to.
You can see the Opera and YoYos' QA Video.
 
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