OFFICIAL YoYo Games Is Now Part Of Opera

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Japster

Member
I just hope Opera don't move GMS to monthly subscription like Netflix. That would be pretty much end up as a burden on developers who develop games as a hobby and don't make money out of it.
Never, EVER again..... Been down that path with another tool, got abused to hell... Would be the first to walk if that happened - years of subs, to be taken the p*ss out of in terms of broken, buggy, unsupported product, money funneled into other ventures (or the CEO's pocket...)

I love GMS2 and YoYo, but I'd jump ship and stop recommending it to everyone in a HEARTBEAT if that ever happened...

Failing that, I'll keep what I've paid for, thanks...
 

gnysek

Member
I understand that people like to speculate, but most of the conversations going on are probably better left for 3-6 months to a year away from now I think? At least for there to be anything of substance to talk about.

An updated roadmap would be cool though!
Yeah, we can speculate, but in fact even Opera just acquired studio, and they need to take a look back for priorities, maybe there were some good ideas buried by previous owners and they are worth to be restored.

It's not a coincidence, that updated roadmap says only what we gonna get in Q1 2021. Opera didn't bought YYG in one day, that took 2-3 months at least, so everyone known that changes will happen - but until they decide how GMS should evolve under new owner, they already had and gonna stick with old roadmap. It's also a proof, that Opera doesn't want to turn GMS ecosystem upside down, as even after owner change they stick for next several weeks with what was already decided.
Some squirrels :squirrel: already seen new features for Q1 on the wild, so seems that after a very very big delay with 2.3, they have a safe margin now to release new features before Q1 ends :) So we may get first infos about future together with 2.3.2 release, so 1-2 months from now.
 

drandula

Member
maybe there were some good ideas buried by previous owners and they are worth to be restored.
I do really hope that there are some great ideas which YYG can now implement ^^

In back of my head there are some wishes what I would want from GMS, though some of them are far-fetched. But maybe some can now happen? :)

For example implementation of another language inside GMS, working GML alongside C#, JavaScript or some other. Though I don't know practicality of this. My real coding experience is only from GML, but having possiblity to use something else inside familiar environment would be great for learning them, but also in general! I think other language would be for advanced "powerusers".
 

kburkhart84

Firehammer Games
For example implementation of another language inside GMS, working GML alongside C#, JavaScript or some other.
If they ever get the IDE plugin system done, they are going to have to either give us access to some other language(likely C# if that's what the IDE is written in as I think I remember). Either that, or they would have to add some GML interpretation to the IDE so we can use it to code to the plugins.
 

gnysek

Member
Beta version of GMS2.0 had Javascript mentioned among preferences window, that was a placeholder though. Also, after 2.3 updates I doubt they want JS or C#, as they would not waste time on GML updates then. Except... Opera as company who makes a browser will want JS :)

Also, as for ideas for GMS2 future updates, we have 316 suggestions on bugs.yoyogames.com (click Projects on top right, select GM Suggestions, and then reset filter). There is plenty of those to choose (some maybe already in).
 

GMWolf

aka fel666
Yoyo put a lot of work into GML to make it into a slower, buggier, less capable version of JavaScript (There are good open source Javascript engines they could have used).
If having their own custom language was not an integral part of YYGs strategy for game maker, they would not have stuck with GML.
I still wish they went for JavaScript (and its derivatives like typescript). The huge selection of existing libraries alone would have been a game changer for GM. but that's not the direction YYG wanted to go in.

I don't foresee Opera imposing these sorts of changes onto YYG. I think the bigger change we will see is YYG being given more freedom to do what they wanted.
I don't think the direction of the engine will change much, instead we may see a greater emphasis being placed on HTML5.
Depending on the company structure,Opera may have teams of developers assist various company branches so we may see input from other programmers, but I think the company will still operate mostly independently.

The blog post did mention synergizing with the OperaGX browser, and other gaming ventures from Opera. I'm not sure there is that much to it at the moment, it seems to me like they were mostly trying to present themselves as a company that cares about gaming and the gaming community, and that they didn't just acquire YYG as a passive investment, but I suppose we shall see.
 

Zhanghua

Member
I do really hope that there are some great ideas which YYG can now implement ^^

In back of my head there are some wishes what I would want from GMS, though some of them are far-fetched. But maybe some can now happen? :)

For example implementation of another language inside GMS, working GML alongside C#, JavaScript or some other. Though I don't know practicality of this. My real coding experience is only from GML, but having possiblity to use something else inside familiar environment would be great for learning them, but also in general! I think other language would be for advanced "powerusers".
I think YYC is GMS' core.....so that why gml is js-like but not closure.

without yyc, i'd like use rm or ut or gd.
 

drandula

Member
Beta version of GMS2.0 had Javascript mentioned among preferences window...
It's funny that in preference there is still separate "Language"-options, and under it, is lonely GML... x)

Also, as for ideas for GMS2 future updates, we have 316 suggestions on bugs.yoyogames.com (click Projects on top right, select GM Suggestions, and then reset filter). There is plenty of those to choose (some maybe already in).
I don't think suggestions are up-to-date though
1611446666069.png

Hopefully we hear some news soon, what will change, what are future plans, etc.
 

XanthorXIII

Member
Don't hate me for saying this but I think if we want features and the like we're going to need to go to a Subscription Model. Here's my reasoning. Because Game Making software is such a Niche Market, you don't have that many buyers. Let's say there's 10,000 users of GameMaker. You sell a copy of the Desktop License to them for $100 each. That's only $1,000,000 Dollars. After Salary, Rent, Utilities and Taxes that's not a whole lot left of that $1,000,000. Now your users want more features which requires more programmers to hire for. If you don't have an incoming cash flow how do you keep your staff, hire more programmers? Sure this is a simplistic look at this, but we need to be realistic about . We want the tools to compete with Unity. If the plan is to go to a subscription plan, maybe we can influence Opera to take a reasonable approach to it. I for one wouldn't mind paying $100 a year to keep the feature set I have if that means that YoYo can ramp up their development and give me improvements quicker.
 

Mert

Member
Don't hate me for saying this but I think if we want features and the like we're going to need to go to a Subscription Model. Here's my reasoning. Because Game Making software is such a Niche Market, you don't have that many buyers. Let's say there's 10,000 users of GameMaker. You sell a copy of the Desktop License to them for $100 each. That's only $1,000,000 Dollars. After Salary, Rent, Utilities and Taxes that's not a whole lot left of that $1,000,000. Now your users want more features which requires more programmers to hire for. If you don't have an incoming cash flow how do you keep your staff, hire more programmers? Sure this is a simplistic look at this, but we need to be realistic about . We want the tools to compete with Unity. If the plan is to go to a subscription plan, maybe we can influence Opera to take a reasonable approach to it. I for one wouldn't mind paying $100 a year to keep the feature set I have if that means that YoYo can ramp up their development and give me improvements quicker.
A bit fair point, but Game Maker is already an overpriced software. Comparing to its competitors in the marketplace, Game Maker might be the most expensive game development software in the world.

If you really want to feed Yoyogames' bank account though, you could advise them to improve the marketplace and inspire users to make more content on marketplace. They can generate income from the sales from them, and it is completely understandable.
 

XanthorXIII

Member
A bit fair point, but Game Maker is already an overpriced software. Comparing to its competitors in the marketplace, Game Maker might be the most expensive game development software in the world.

If you really want to feed Yoyogames' bank account though, you could advise them to improve the marketplace and inspire users to make more content on marketplace. They can generate income from the sales from them, and it is completely understandable.
That’s too risky for YoYo to rely on alone. The marketplace would need to feature quality content in order to get those sales and would require additional management to make sure that content stays fresh and up to date adding cost to an already risky venture. They need to base this on reliable income from subscriptions which they can turn around with and use some of that to improve the market place. Offer free content to subscribers from it and help keep it up to date.
 

Nocturne

Friendly Tyrant
Forum Staff
Admin
A bit fair point, but Game Maker is already an overpriced software. Comparing to its competitors in the marketplace, Game Maker might be the most expensive game development software in the world.
That's a very short-sighted and exaggerated viewpoint. Yes there are "free" alternatives, but the only commercially viable ones are not really free and do indeed take money, and a hell of a lot more than GameMaker. With GameMaker you pay a flat fee and you get an engine that could potentially make you millions (ask Toby Fox ;) ), while with the other engines you pay nothing to start with then have to give them a revenue cut or update to a subscription licence later, which adds up to a hell of a lot more than the $100 being asked for by YYG. And if we're JUST looking at the main 100% free alternative, the learning curve is steeper and they don't offer exports to console. Oh, and if you look at their game's showcase you probably won't find any big name games on their, while the YYG/GameMaker showcase has some VERY well known and popular games listed... wonder why that is?

Honestly, I don't understand this kind of comment as it seems to be a very "me me me" kind of thing to say... YYG needs to make money to keep making GameMaker. They need to pay for offices, they need to pay the wages of the 40+ employees, they need to pay for server space, for a CDN, and for all the other stuff that development requires like PCs, consoles, mobile devices... How the hell are they meant to do that if they just give their product away? And don't you think if there was a financially viable way to do this they would? Keep in mind that GameMaker occupies a space between the nearest "free" competitor and the next nearest "free-but-not-really" competitor where:

1) The free one is free because they survive on donations and patreon, which means they are obviously a very small team and have lower maintenance costs. This is not a viable income stream for a company the size of YYG.

2) The other free-but-not-really one is "free" because it has a massive share of the industry market and get enough back from the people that have games going over the $100,000 limit and have to pay licence fees that they can afford to maintain their 2000+(!!!!) staff and infrastructure, while appearing wonderful darlings by having the "free" version.

So, YYG are in the middle ground here... Not so small they can live off the kindness of their fans (something I doubt would happen anyway given comments like this), and not so large that they can maintain themselves form the revenue that big games bring in. So, what can they do? So far they've survived and even grown using a one-time-licence that - when compared to the thousands of hours of use you'll get from it and the comparative costs of a AAA video game - is incredibly cheap. We're talking value for money here! I mean, people go to Starbucks and pay $9 for a frappuccino which they drink in half an hour, but then don't want to pay $100 for a piece of software that they'll use for thousands of hours and that could potentially make them thousands of dollars back????

So, most expensive software in the world? Not by a long shot, unless you are taking an incredibly narrow minded approach and only considering making small games for yourself and your mum. If you are considering selling those games then GameMaker has remarkable value.

PS: I'm not saying there aren't other ways forward for YYG and for GameMaker, but I am saying that YYG have explored the options and found that AT THE MOMENT this is the best one for them and for the users. Will that change? Absolutely, nothing is forever. I would hope that with Opera on board now they'll have more backing and support to innovate and improve/change their licencing model, but as it stands, I still consider GM to be excellent value for money with no "hidden" costs.
 
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FoxyOfJungle

Kazan Games
I mean, people go to Starbucks and pay $9 for a frappuccino which they drink in half an hour,
Going to Starbucks and paying for that amount of coffee is not the reality for many people, unfortunately.

but then don't want to pay $100 for a piece of software that they'll use for thousands of hours and that could potentially make them thousands of dollars back????
What if the user uses it as a hobby? I think it would be more fair to do a monthly subscription if it is a company, something similar (but not the same) to what Adobe does with its products, although they do not have a permanent subscription.

I agree with your other points.
 
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Nocturne

Friendly Tyrant
Forum Staff
Admin
What if the user uses it as a hobby? I think it would be more fair to do a monthly subscription if it is a company, something similar (but not the same) to what Adobe does with its products, although they do not have a permanent subscription.
On the subject of subscriptions, please read my other posts as I've made it very clear that I think a subscription model can co-exist with a pay-once model, with subscription giving access to "pro" extras like paid support, while the pay-once licence stays as it is now.
 

FoxyOfJungle

Kazan Games
On the subject of subscriptions, please read my other posts as I've made it very clear that I think a subscription model can co-exist with a pay-once model, with subscription giving access to "pro" extras like paid support, while the pay-once licence stays as it is now.
I had read it, but I thought you changed your mind when you said that YYG have explored the options and found that "AT THE MOMENT this is the best one for them and for the users", I think it confused me. But it would be great if it were like that, I love GMS 2 and YYG so much, it would be pulling me out my heart if I split (because here in Brazil the reality is different from the USA or UK). Although I particularly think that YYG deserves it for its effort.
 
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matharoo

Tutorial Guy
YYG Staff
All this talk about pricing has made me realize that I absolutely love how GameMaker is available on Steam. It has extremely friendly regional pricing, and with the way I was when I had just started, I couldn't have been able to afford paying for GMS2 at all -- but it being on Steam was a life-saver, with a lower cost for third-world countries. I just hope that whatever happens, the software stays on Steam. It helps a lot of people!
 

JeffJ

Member
It's really a shame that the discussion constantly shifts to pricing / subscription when there are so many, much more interesting questions to be asked and answered. It detracts from what could otherwise be a really interesting discussion. I'm hoping others, and myself included, still have a chance of having our questions answered to the best of the staff's ability.

Edit: Perhaps, at the very least, make another thread for that discussion alone, so this one doesn't drown in that noise.
 

jonjons

Member
The pricing discussion seems important. It would be great if GM would follow the model of UE it charges 5% of the game sales. Now in 2021 it onlys charges 5% if the sales reach 1million.
I would not mind GM charging 10% of the game's sales :). Its a win+win you make money the company makes money, and can deliver a better game engine.
But i dont think it would work, unless Opera would invest a couple of million, on the frist years. Or GM would be stuck a long time without making money.
I also dont know why some people are agaisnt this type of subscription model, most games do about 3 or 4 sales on PC per month, and some are good games.
 

Padouk

Member
I don't understand the speculation on GMS pricing. To me, YYG pricing help YYG survive. It has nothing to do with the mother company.
The owning company is more likely looking for monetization through published games. They get way more taking a 30% cut...

The blog post did mention synergizing with the OperaGX browser, and other gaming ventures from Opera. I'm not sure there is that much to it at the moment, it seems to me like they were mostly trying to present themselves as a company that cares about gaming and the gaming community, and that they didn't just acquire YYG as a passive investment, but I suppose we shall see.
From all that announcement, "Opera GX" is the only thing that interested me.
I see a play for them to speed up the GX Corner adoption.

Will we have a few new features / round bugfixes to live in there?
Will indie have some publishing support?
 

jonjons

Member
I'm wondering if the Opera and YoYo will conduct a survey of users… For example, "what you would like to see new in the engine?".
Similar survey was conducted several years ago. I like this practice.
If Opera and YoYo do that, it will be very bad 😁
they know what to do, they just have to look at other engines
 
If Opera and YoYo do that, it will be very bad 😁
they know what to do, they just have to look at other engines
Yeah, I disagree as well. There's a good number of amateur and highly qualified users on the board, finding out preferences from either is great to see the sticking points GMS has amongst a range of different users. I know lots of more hobby style people would like to have things like 9-slice and automatic tiling available in code without having to do it themselves, which isn't much of a big deal to implement. Then there are the advanced users who are pretty desperate for IDE plugins and other related stuff like that (I would love some optimisation of GML, so that things like a good number of entities running A* are realistically achievable without having to either pass the load to another language or optimising to the high heavens). Both pathways seem useful to me, without hanging around the board, I dunno if I would've guessed some of the more common things that are asked for here.
 

jonjons

Member
if game maker did what other engines did., then why use GM? GM is successful precisely because its a different engine.
yeah, I disagree as well. There's a good number of amateur and highly qualified users on the board
Damm im always labeled has the BAD GUY around here ? but at the end i have to get s*** done that noone makes...
I do hope GM will get to do the thinks you want at least you two,( and your group of highly qualified users )... just to show everybody how an evil bad guy iam. But when you acquire those nice treats, dont say i didnt gave you anything.
 

FoxyOfJungle

Kazan Games
Each user has their opinion, it is important to respect everyone and understand that each point of view is individual, you do not need to agree with what everyone says. We can live happily in harmony without attacking or hating others by a divergence of opinions (I'm not saying that someone did, but I'm saying).
 
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EvanSki

Raccoon Jam Host
So, yeah, I think this is great news and I'm really happy for everyone at YYG!!!
How it started.....
EXACTLY, and this is just the type of speculation that will cause me to close the topic... :)
(although I won't, as at the moment, this is obviously something everyone wants and needs to discuss... and I am equally guilty of participating I suppose! :bunny:)

Please, there has been no mention by YYG of a subscription model, and while I do think it'll come eventually in some form, I 100% don't think it would change anything for the majority of developers, as I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT YOYO GAMES WOULD DO AWAY WITH THE CURRENT PAY-ONCE LICENCING. I said as much in my post above, but that seemed to have been ignored in everyone's panic about subscriptions. So, please, don't get stressed out about ghosts that don't exist and that you're actually creating yourselves! Honestly, I think that YYG and Opera are very aware of the userbase and their wants and needs and will not do something that would alienate the majority of them. ;)
.....How its going
 
So, most expensive software in the world? Not by a long shot, unless you are taking an incredibly narrow minded approach and only considering making small games for yourself and your mum. If you are considering selling those games then GameMaker has remarkable value.
Those who complain about GMS being pricy obviously don't use the Adobe Suite, let me just tell you that...
 
So, most expensive software in the world? Not by a long shot, unless you are taking an incredibly narrow minded approach and only considering making small games for yourself and your mum. If you are considering selling those games then GameMaker has remarkable value.
No. Dismissing concerns around how pricing is structured as being selfish and narrow minded isn't good for anyone. Everyone has their own reasons for how they value the price of something(or how it's licensed!)

Not everyone is Toby Fox, or making games of those scales.

Here's an example.
One great way to making money, or gain experience as a hobbyist-wannabe-pro is developing web games. And right now GMS is honestly a poor choice for that. As an individual developer, building and maintaining your own games.. fine, it's a fantastic tool. However if you're trying to get contract work with someone who doesn't give a AF what tool you use, but they need to be able to maintain* the game once it's done... not so much.

There are a variety of factors why GMS currently less attractive in these circumstances. You could pretty much summarize it as a venn diagram of pro's and cons. Producing un-editable javascript, locked into a propriety editing software that has a small userbase(important if you need to find another maintainer). You can license up another developer for $150, but depending on the scale of the project that is not attractive. If I've got a $500** budget for a week-long project, I do *not* want to factor in a $150 license just to maintain it down the road. (Interestingly: That is were a monthly subscription actually has value.)

In this regard I'm very happy about Opera acquiring GMS because I definitely think they understand the web economy a lot better than Playtech.. so I'm really looking forward to seeing what direction Opera provide for GM.

*with another developers
**definitely not Toby Fox money. :)
 

duran can

Member
I congratulate you on the investment but ...
Everyone knows that opera's browsers and software team are "unfortunately" bad. Their browsers are therefore the least used. They had put a ridiculous feature like adblock inside the browser, so I was automatically banning anyone entering my website from opera. I think it sums up this situation.

and "Playtech plc is a gambling software development company" -from wikipedia. I hope we do not see interesting and illegal gambling ads...

to much worry

I hope the investment you get will bring Game Maker Studio to better places and will continue to make opera developers not mess with gms :)
 

matharoo

Tutorial Guy
YYG Staff
They had put a ridiculous feature like adblock inside the browser, so I was automatically banning anyone entering my website from opera.
I don't think the ad blocker is enabled by default, and a lot of people who use other browsers use ad blockers as well. If someone can download Opera and enable the ad blocker, they can as easily download an ad blocker into their Chrome or Firefox. Doesn't make sense to block all Opera visitors just because of that, lol.

and "Playtech plc is a gambling software development company" -from wikipedia. I hope we do not see interesting and illegal gambling ads...
What do you mean? Playtech don't own YYG anymore.
 

gnysek

Member
I know that we're talking too much about subscription, but I wanted to get back to arguments, that this model can become too expensive for hobbyist:

1) as Nocturne said several times, nobody said that there will be subscription at all, and even if - nobody said that Trial or Creator versions will be terminated (first one is free, second one is 39$)
2) subscription might be cheaper in some cases - why? You can only get Windows/Mac version, learn, make a game, and if you want to release it on mobile, you can grab subscription for month or two only, to make adjustments on real devices. So instead of paying 300$ for Windows+Mobile, you might end up in paying 100-150$ (in one year). Still, in both cases it's less than 1$ per day, if you're able to make a game under one year.
3) if there will be something like perpetual license, subscription will become a kind of loan in fact, so that option is much cheaper for hobbyists or those that live in countries which have poor salary
4) you may always pause if you want to take a break, or are waiting for some feature/bugfix . That might again make some savings during one year, compared to one-time license
5) even if there will be any changes, you already have GMS 2.x and I doubt they gonna force anyone to switch into new model, and you gonna keep getting updates for free

So, as for now, no one that wrote a post in this topic will pay even 1$, no matter what changes they gonna made. Nothing to worry about until GMS 3.x comes :)

I believe that current pricing and subscription can co-exists. If subscription will be ever added, they also need to add something to it, to attract users. For example, priority support queue, maybe possibility to vote for next features, maybe early access, maybe discounts on marketplace. GM/GMS had one-time payment for around 20 years, so I doubt it will vanish completely. I believe that giving us choice will be their choice :)

Seriously, I should be thankful that they added so many features into GMS 2.x for < 80$ that I paid in November 2016. No other company gave me so many updates for 4+ years for free. (Ok, I bought other exporters later too, but still - they are giving me free updates even after that).
 

gnysek

Member
Well, those who are paying on the adobe's sub model, were very well aware of the cost BEFORE committing on it...
Every app that switched to subscription model and comes to my mind, introduced it with next major version, and didn't revoked existing licenses. Also, most of them were having new major release every year (or several years), and even didn't have discounts for those who had previous one, so people paid again. In most of cases it was switch from "pay a lot every X years" to "pay small amount every month, but you gonna have new features more often than once per X years".

Looking back, we had GM8 in 2009, GMS in 2012 and GMS2 on late 2016, so you had to pay for GM(S) every 3-4 years. According to this 2021 for sure marks a year, when new version of GMS which requires new purchase could came out. We should be happy, that GML changes weren't treated as GMS 3.0 :) But yep, this is the time, and "if" there will be any changes, in that case they might be better four our wallets, than previous ones :)

But, let's wait for Opera first move... 2.3.2 is the last breath of Playtech ;)
 

mikix

Member
I'll be sticking with GMS 2.3.* if they do a GMS3. Because I don't want to rewrite every code to make it compatible with GMS3. I don't like subscriptions, I am paying $16 per month to host my website and $9 per year to have a domain. There are portfolio websites for artists, even Adobe have their own called Behance. But to market your app and make it look professional, you need a website. And paying a sub for GMS2, then you'll have to revoke subs from other things.

Blizzard for example, is a company with hundreds of workers. Do they need a sub for World of Warcraft? Yes, because they have so many employees to pay.
 

gnysek

Member
I'll be sticking with GMS 2.3.* if they do a GMS3
And that's your right to do it! That's what I meant - nobody forces us to do anything, nobody revokes anything that we already have.
Also, we for sure gonna get at least one update for 2.x before any changes by new owner will be applied. I think that even Q2 updates can be still made according to Playtech roadmap, it's not like new company comes and kills everything (as even some features might be already in work). So, 2.x is gonna stay with us for little longer for sure :)
From what we know, nobody left YYG because of owner change, so for sure people there will tell Opera if they have any stupid ideas that customers may not like, from what I remember Russell is there since 2007 or 2008... he knows GameMaker better than Mark Overmars now, so he should be our buffer :)
 

dawidM

Member
from what I remember Russell is there since 2007 or 2008... he knows GameMaker better than Mark Overmars now, so he should be our buffer :)
Russell and Mark Overmars are the only two people I trust in regard to GameMaker. Thank gods that we still have one of them.
 

Cpaz

Member
I'm wondering if the Opera and YoYo will conduct a survey of users… For example, "what you would like to see new in the engine?".
Similar survey was conducted several years ago. I like this practice.
Agreed.

My #1 hope with this acquisition is better communication in general.

The way 2.3 was handled made it obvious YYG was being restricted on what they could say, to whom, and when.

I want both YYG and Opera to know (and hopefully other agree with this sentiment) that if I see that lack of communication continue with new management, I'll be royaly peeved off.

I expect that from people who don't understand what YYG works in, not people who are supposedly "enthusiastic" and invested in GMs future.
 

JeffJ

Member
This is not quite true. Can you publish to play store with 1.4? No. Mobile publishing deprecates very fast.
This is my biggest issue on the matter, too. And it's a very, very good reason why it would be a huge benefit to open up for third party developers to keep up SDK work as plugins - Android, iOS, Xbox, Nintendo Switch, heck - even Spine - could then be updated externally so you could potentially still develop for mobile and console even if you didn't upgrade GMS2 itself. One of my biggest wishes.

It would also allow console developers, such as myself, to avoid pitfalls that are unfortunately not uncommon with GMS, where you have to update the SDK (because Microsoft/Nintendo/Sony requires a newer version for certification), but updating to the newest version of GMS2 also introduces bugs to your specific project, because of how they insist on bundling vital SDK updates with general runtime and IDE shenanigans. That (beyond the IDE) is perhaps my biggest gripe, because it can seriously put you in a bad situation; update, and your project breaks (I've lost count of how many times this has happened to me over the years) and you have to spend weeks retesting and fixing code that was already working. Don't update, and you can't certify, because you're not on the newest required SDK. Why not let us update the SDKs externally?
 

gnysek

Member
This is not quite true. Can you publish to play store with 1.4? No. Mobile publishing deprecates very fast.
Did 1.4 stopped to work when 2.0 became available? No, it was still supported for ~20 months, and they informed us a year before that there will be a sunset (and exporters still worked for some time). Also, license says it doesn't need to be supported forever, which we all agreed:
YoYo Games reserves the right to discontinue some or all of the features of the YYG Property at any time at its sole discretion (including the provision of software updates).

Funny thing is, that for most of exporters if you want to publish game, you need a yearly license and/or they are taking your shares (Google, Apple, Microsoft, etc.), so even having GMS 2 with "lifetime" license like now, you're still may not able to export games without sharing revenue or reinvesting every year, to still list your game.
Yoyogames takes no money at same time, while their participation in your success was the biggest part. They should have right to get some funds from time to time too. I don't know that it should be monthly, or yearly, at full price or with very big discount - but paying for what they already done, and then getting free updates, is not fair from our side in long term. Of course in return we should expect at least little more than now too.
 

mikix

Member
This is not about who makes the most money. Following your sense, Microsoft should sub Yoyo games for using a computer and their Visual C. If I make a hammer brand, I should sub every building branch company on top of a fixed price. Just because I make a game on Windows, Microsoft should put a sub on me? That's not how it works. People work on things they like to work on. Besides, if Opera bought them for $10 million they ought be worth something, right?

If they put a sub on GMS2.3, someone will surely act in court against them. Because it was already priced for over $100 for just the desktop license. If they do it for GMS3, people will jump ship to open source engines. Putting a sub on something that is not an artistic paint tool, can make severe consequences. We have learned a language for years and spent years on developing stuff on it, and then they sub their language? Like WTH?

A more ideal way to make something subbable, is this their source code.
 
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GMWolf

aka fel666
Microsoft should sub Yoyo games for using a computer and their Visual C.
Yoyogames most definitely pay for their windows license and professional Visual Studio licenses.
And you should too.


People work on things they like to work on.
Dang I guess I should quit my job then.


If they put a sub on GMS2.3, someone will surely act in court against them.
If they did they would probably lose.


If they do it for GMS3, people will jump ship to open source engines
Some will, other won't.


Putting a sub on something that is not an artistic paint tool, can make severe consequences.
Covering your bases here I see 😅


We have learned a language for years and spent years on developing stuff on it, and then they sub their language? Like WTH?
Not the language. They cannot hold IP on the language, not in Europe.
But on the language execution engine and the game maker engine? Absolutely.


A more ideal way to make something subbable, is this their source code.
That would not end well for them: they would be sharing their trade secrets, and allow people to make games without using game maker.


Besides, if Opera bought them for $10 million they ought be worth something, right?
Exactly, they are worth the money that people pay them.
If yoyo gave away their software for free then they would have sold for $0.

Besides, NO ONE said they were going subscription only!!!
NO ONE.
so please can we move this discussion to another thread.


And damn it, I know I'm responding to it and therefore fuelling it, but I just can't Help myself.
 

gnysek

Member
Even if something seems free, that doesn't mean, you're not paying for it, it might be "under the hood", with other software you're using. So nobody needs to sue anyone, as they already have their ways in many cases :)
 
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