OFFICIAL YoYo Games Indie Game Publishing

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by rmanthorp, May 24, 2018.

  1. rmanthorp

    rmanthorp YoYo Games Staff Admin YYG Staff

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    We're very happy to announce a new publishing division, partnering with leading independent developers who are creating high quality, innovative indie games with GameMaker.

    Building on our reputation for nurturing the next generation of game developers, we have created a publishing team headed-up by Chris Trewartha, formerly Senior Producer at Outplay Entertainment. The publishing arm of YoYo Games will focus on bringing GameMaker games to the masses.

    “With GameMaker we have always prided ourselves on developing future game makers. We are now excited to partner with and help the incredibly talented developers in our community to take their next step into the world of publishing and ultimately commercial success”, said James Cox, General Manager of YoYo Games. “We are blessed with a very creative community, who create highly innovative games. There is a real opportunity for us to act as a conduit to success for these developers, by providing them with our commercial expertise, advanced knowledge of the GameMaker platform and the investment clout that can take them to the next level and beyond.”

    “We want to build a portfolio of games, made with GameMaker, that really stand out from the crowd through their concept, design and mechanics,” said Chris Trewartha, Publishing Manager of YoYo Games. “We will work with the developers to give them the support they need, enabling them to realise their full potential.”

    The team are in the process of reaching out to GameMaker developers and are hoping to announce their first games later this Autumn. Developers who are interested in speaking to the YoYo Games publishing team can contact publishing@yoyogames.com .

    https://www.yoyogames.com/blog/471/yoyo-games-indie-game-publishing
     
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  2. BaBiA Game Studio

    BaBiA Game Studio Member

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    Sounds like a great way for any indies trying to get published to have a helping hand. Will be interested to see how this all goes once the first batch of games is announced.

    Also good to see that this is a dedicated team focused specifically on this.
     
  3. tafkatfos

    tafkatfos Member

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    Great news.
     
  4. Electros

    Electros Member

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    Sounds like a great way to increase exposure and success of Gamemaker, and Gamemaker games - looking forward to seeing the games that come through this program!
     
  5. JeffJ

    JeffJ Member

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    Interesting! I'd be really interested to see a draft for what a typical publishing deal would entail vis-à-vis marketing budget, conference booth space etc., and what kind of press range YoYoGames has at their disposal, as in my experience these are some of the most vital criteria for a publisher these days - how much money will they contractually obligate to spend on marketing, how many exhibitions will they take your game to, and what is their contact library like - are they a good mix of game journalists and influential youtubers, etc.. Basically; what can they bring to the table.

    One thing that I see as a unique benefit here though is that you will have a publisher that, more than anyone else, will understand the technical challenges not just from a developer perspective, but more importantly from an engine perspective as well. This will give the developer a publisher who really understands where they're coming from, and it will give YYG a greater insight into the needs of the more serious heavy user releasing commercial titles with their GMS.

    Interested to see how this turns out.
     
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  6. Cloaked Games

    Cloaked Games Member

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    "The team are in the process of reaching out to GameMaker developers and are hoping to announce their first games later this Autumn."

    What, exactly, does this mean? I'm assuming it means, "release date announced", like, we have a finished game and we're announcing it in Autumn to be published sometime in Autumn? Or... like, we're starting development then and it'll be published that next summer? That's technically a reasonable announcement time-frame. And what about games which build communities through continued updates/screenshots on twitter or forums? When, exactly, is that game considered announced?

    I hardly have the industry experience to commit to something like that or be accepted for that sort of thing, but I'm curious because the fact I'm not ready right now doesn't necesarily mean I can't ditch a few extra commitments (hunt down some extra people as well) and present something awesome if it means getting published and whatever "investment clout" means.

    But mostly I'm just curious.
     
  7. GMWolf

    GMWolf aka fel666

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    "Indie Game Publishing"

    I dont think you understand the meaning of Indie...


    What sorts of publishing deals will YOYO offer?
    What sort of support and advantages can we expect from yoyo, outside of funding projects?
    How about project manageent? Will yoyo play a role in project management to ensure smooth sailing of production (a sensible move, IMO), or will they leave developers to their own devices (What most indies would prefer)?

    Will Yoyo even fund games early in ddevelopment, or will they only take on completed/near completed projects and fund advertisements and the final dev stages?
     
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  8. rmanthorp

    rmanthorp YoYo Games Staff Admin YYG Staff

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    I can't speak to specifics that much but we understand these kinds of questions and concerns and I can say we are going to be dealing with games on a case by case bases because one size does not fit all. We very much want to grow this we the needs of the individuals/teams in mind. I hope we can share more specifics in the future but this is very much the beginning :)
     
  9. rmanthorp

    rmanthorp YoYo Games Staff Admin YYG Staff

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  10. GMWolf

    GMWolf aka fel666

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    So you are not offering funding.
    But you dont mention what you will be offering.
    Will you be offering marketing opportunities? Or help bring titles to platforms such as steam, and the various console stores?
    If you do offer marketing opportunities, what sorts of deals are you capable of making? Magazines? web ads, or even TV ads?
    Booths at conventions?
    I understand this will be on a case by case basis, but what are you able to offer, in general?

    In short, why should we consider YYG as a publisher over self publishing?

    For now, it just sounds like you will make something akin to the showcase, to further show off your engine.

    You haven't said anything about how this will benefit developers.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2018
  11. kupo15

    kupo15 Member

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    No funding? That's disappointing. I guess this isn't for me then, oh well
     
  12. The-any-Key

    The-any-Key Member

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    Exposure is always the hard part when it comes to new games. I welcome this.
     
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  13. Ludorverr

    Ludorverr Member

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    I read the FAQ but found it lacking. What information will be required to be provided? (do I need my Tax File Number)
     
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  14. WarpDogsVG

    WarpDogsVG Member

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    I'm really excited about this announcement, and will be pursuing it to see if it's an option for Village Monsters, but I want to echo what everyone else has said in that it's not really clear what YoYo provides.

    I can understand avoiding funding as that's a tricky situation that leads to complicated terms (IP ownership, flat fee vs. residuals, and so on), but marketing-only publishing has a major drawback of being hard to quantify

    Regardless, I'm thrilled YoYo is getting into this area and I'm always a fan of the GameMaker community expanding
     
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  15. Posh Indie

    Posh Indie Member

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    Marketing is the most important thing a publisher can do for you, in my opinion, so as far as that is concerned... this is pretty cool.

    As always, with what I contribute vocally there is usually a "But", and this is no exception. I see the potential in this and it sounds good on paper (As it should, your marketing team is working overtime already on advertising this as positively as possible for the developer). We know what the "Give" looks like, but what about the "Take"?

    As a marketing only publisher, I would hope not to see a 15% profit demand. You will have your branding as the publisher within developer products, so I mean... you cannot discount that the developers are marketing for you as well here (You are marketing the developer's product who are marketing your product in return by nature of the relationship. I see why this is appealing to YoYoGames. You marketing them is you marketing you.)

    There is a fine line here that determines if this is a "Friends with benefits" relationship or a "Stockholm syndrome" relationship where only the developers that overvalue the service being provided keep coming back to it.

    So, what will the "Take" look like?
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2018
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  16. nesrocks

    nesrocks Member

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    It isn't clear because it's on a game by game basis. You show them your game and hear what they have to say to you. Then you talk to them about it and maybe continue with the deal or not. It's how business is done... Talk it out. I for one am excited to hear what they have to say about my game. And, as has been mentioned in this thread, it is hard to get noticed. Any help is appreciated.
     
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  17. Posh Indie

    Posh Indie Member

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    You missed the point, though, but I knew in advance that some would. Obviously it is on a game by game basis, but that is irrelevant if they cross the boundaries of more established publishers (And there have been cases where they put themselves on equal footing with more robust competitors, eg. Console Export pricing).

    I get that it is not known, but I caution people to shop around.

    Also, take note: I have not said they are doing anything bad, here. I am just saying there needs to be care in how it is handled.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2018
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  18. Yotzer

    Yotzer Member

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    that's what i was talking about! show me the money man! that's the way you do it ...money for nothing and games for free...oops
    seriously people,don't critic every thing ,sometimes we (the community) must say : very well done ,and congratulations! and thanks!
    at least i wanted to see gms going that path.
    i only would recomend to build some kind of course of something from a-to-z (beginner to gamedev pro) because i don't think some kind of thing will ever come from the comunity by itself ,mostly because of the resources needed and also because i see the big youtube tutorial makers struggling to survive so they just want paid courses on udemy and such.
    what i mean is that it can be a way to attract new clients/game makers/devs to show them how dreams can be achieved .
    just an idea...i want gml to flourish ,don't want t invest my time in a dead horse language.
     
  19. Toque

    Toque Member

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    “least i wanted to see gms going that path.
    i only would recomend to build some kind of course of something from a-to-z (beginner to gamedev pro) because i don't think some kind of thing will ever come from the comunity by itself ,mostly because of the resources needed and also because i see the big youtube tutorial makers struggling to survive so they just want paid courses on udemy.”



    This is another great idea. The learning resources are a bit of a mish mash in my opinion. I would gladly pay for a well made GM course. Yes there are lots of tutorials but a course would be better.
     
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  20. RichHopefulComposer

    RichHopefulComposer Member

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    This is interesting. Nice to see YoYo looking to work with the community here. Maybe I'll talk to them soon, after my game is a bit more polished.

    It'll be cool if I can help YoYo and GameMaker by helping myself. =)

    I'm looking forward to hearing more about this!
     
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  21. FrostyCat

    FrostyCat Member

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    Will this publishing department report to the dev team in any way, and how will the dev team support it? This is central to the viability of many marketing efforts that will underpin this venture.

    Whenever app stores and integration hosts like Google Play or Facebook change their policy or update their API, they broadcast emails to app publishers informing of the change. Yet YoYo is often caught completely oblivious, and often the response is a trite "put a ticket on the helpdesk". Even then, the development team often don't act within an acceptable timeframe, with several cases stuck on the queue for months at a time or beyond the changeover deadline. Given YoYo's commercial proprietorship over these plugins and the runner they go with, this pass-the-buck attitude really irks me on several levels.

    One notable fact was that this problem was not a thing when YoYo was still had a hat in the ring. It was when self-published games like Lazy Mouse and Froad were unshelved that the monetization and API integrations really began to be severely neglected. I am unconvinced that this is a coincidence.

    This new publishing department is a potential solution to this problem, but not if it isn't given any teeth or becomes too distant policy-wise. There should be a tangible development-time edge to using this service when it comes to marketing-related code. And if an update or problem is imminent, these requests should no longer have any business languishing on the helpdesk queue. The publishing department should be on a one-to-one basis with the dev team. This will benefit all GM users, whether they use the publishing service or not.

    There is no room for YoYo to be complacent about this problem, and clients will demand an answer the second this department opens for business.
     
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  22. Misty

    Misty Member

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    What I recommend is, a hosting service similar to steam, where games have a 5 star ranking system, similar to Xbox Live Indie Games.

    For 1 dollar games, you don't really need marketing, you just need a platform where people go to buy indie games. Some indie devs will go hog-wild and put all they have into making the next Legend of Zelda, and for these devs, you need marketing, press conferences, booths, and paid advertising. Other indies just want a place to sell a couple 1 dollar games. The rating system will ensure that low quality games, such as the games of YYG Sandbox, do not clutter the sales of the good quality games.
     
  23. RichHopefulComposer

    RichHopefulComposer Member

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    Tell that to the guy who made Undertale...
    Also, there are already places out there for indie devs to sell their games...I don't think we need yet another. Wasn't the YoYo Marketplace for that already anyway? And it failed pretty badly. Indie games sell on the markets that already exist, as long as they're good enough.

    Anyway, I hope YoYo says more about exactly what this new project is soon. I'm curious!
     
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  24. Shatter

    Shatter Member

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    Like Google Play or iOS App Store? o_O
     
  25. Mr. RPG

    Mr. RPG Member

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    I think you mean the GameMaker: Player, not the Marketplace.

    YoYo Games already tried this. It was called the GameMaker: Player.
     
  26. RichHopefulComposer

    RichHopefulComposer Member

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    Probably. The one that was for GM games, that failed pretty badly. Whichever that one was, hahah. :p
     
  27. Misty

    Misty Member

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    google play uses tricks and traps to coax users into uprating their games. these kinds of things will be discouraged.

    may i ask, why cannot we put in a new Game Maker Player. I think the main problem was that it was an App. I couldn't ever get the Game Maker Player to run, it was laggy if I remember correct. Instead of an App we should just have a website, like Steam.
     
  28. Vether

    Vether Member

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    The first half of that scares me, and the second half is great...
    As much as I love using GM, im not really too keen to spend 4 to 6 years making audios/sprites/coding... slaving... to have my main selling point be "Created with GameMaker".
    However, if this project is to truly help the lowly dev get their game out to the masses, then that is awesome!
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2018
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  29. GMWolf

    GMWolf aka fel666

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    Because for market adoption is a thing.
     
  30. Shatter

    Shatter Member

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    How?

    Same way it is 'discouraged' in the Marketplace with Humble Bundle deals being a means of up-rating your own assets?
     
  31. BaBiA Game Studio

    BaBiA Game Studio Member

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    There are already several places to upload/sell/showcase games, and the last times YYG did this it was a flop (GameMaker Player and the YYG Sandbox before that). I would hope that they are going to be more like a publisher that will work on helping achieve the marketing/coverage that is required to get your games released through any of the existing channels - not setting up their own site in yet another attempt to be Steam, GameJolt, Itch, etc.
     
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  32. Yotzer

    Yotzer Member

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    the problem with most of the games is not where to post it or sell it ,there are plenty of options these days and for every kind of dev and client .
    the problem is most of all the marketing ,this is where many of us fail or are just terrified of it and don't know where to start and how to do it right.
    in my opinion that's what "the new department" should be focusing on + making sure the quality of the games promoted by "the new department" are in well shape ,code optimized and resolution/adaptability for the intended platform,etc.
    best deployment the "made with game makers " can get in order to impress new comers to this engine.
    also my opinion is must be of our own interest as members of the community to implement the splash screen "made with game maker studio 2" in our games in order to show the world that 2D is not Unity or UE but the king of this niche is game maker,here "the new department" can encourage devs through some kind of score/points/credits that can be later exchanged for assets or marketing tools.:)
     
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  33. Shatter

    Shatter Member

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    This actually had a negative impact with Unity. Look at all of these 'asset flips' with poor rag doll implementation just to get a game in the App Store. People now associate Unity with crappy rag doll games.

    The same will happen with GameMaker. Although people tend to associate 'crappy pixel art games' with GameMaker. So I am not sure what the answer is here.
     
  34. GMWolf

    GMWolf aka fel666

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    Yeah, that's what a publisher should do:
    Ensure the games they publish reach a certain standard, provide marketing, and take a cut.

    But I don't think we, as a community owe anything to YYG. If anything it's the opposite. YYG owes the community for
    That's why YYG are doing this publishing thing.

    By curating games, before adding the 'published by yoyogames' seal, it allows people to ascociate better games with gamemaker.

    Put your label on the good games, rather than forcing it on all the bad ones.

    That, on top of helping the community, and making an extra buck, make this a smart move by YYG.

    I would still be interested to see what YYG can do though. Curious to see where this will go.
     
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  35. Shatter

    Shatter Member

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    Couldn't agree more. That's why I thought the blanket approach to 'Made by GM' splash scree was a bad idea.

    If there is a distinct nice looking 'Published by YYG' splash screen that makes it through the curated process, it could look like a 'gold standard'.
     
  36. WarpDogsVG

    WarpDogsVG Member

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    I'm not sure if that's "why" YYG is doing this - I mean, they never said as much themselves - but I still think this is a really interesting point. Curation - like actual curation, not done via crowdsourcing or algorithms - is desperately needed in PC gaming, and I'd love to see an engine maker get on board.
     
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  37. Yal

    Yal Member GMC Elder

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    Given my previous experiences with publishers, I'll remain skeptical.

    What will the target audience be for this? Established creators with a reputation, up-and-coming people that don't realize their own greatness, productive jam fountains that never have the motivation to polish something up for a full release?
     
  38. Posh Indie

    Posh Indie Member

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    You are the first person I have personally ever heard use these associations with either product, to be honest. A few things need to be said here:
    1. Asset flips happen with all development software with assets available, even GameMaker (A high profile example being Endorlight which used this asset by @RupertReckless). I do not think asset flips really hurt the public's opinion of the development suite as much as they hurt the public's opinion of the developer that did it when they get caught. I noticed no negative impact towards either development suite in regards to asset flipping, and such a response to it would be unreasonable (YoYoGames and Unity cannot stop developers from flipping assets, they can only discourage it).
    2. GameMaker never created "crappy pixel art games", people created "crappy pixel art games" with GameMaker (In GameMaker's early years this manifested as a large quantity of extremely buggy fan games). This is the stigma YoYoGames needs to overcome. This is a byproduct of GameMaker starting life as an educational tool and becoming the popular "This is easy, so even I can do it" option with all the younger kids and inexperienced dreamers (It was capable of much more, the community that used it was just not of the right skill set). I also do not think this opinion holds entirely true anymore, as people are starting to realize it is much more capable than the early community put on display (I imagine there are quite a few that still think otherwise, but I would argue that it is nowhere near as bad as it used to be after many high profile successful game releases). This is also different than the asset flipping situation as the opinions represent judgment of capability (if someone flips and releases a Unity asset that perfectly recreates Shadow of the Colossus, that still shows more capability than 300 hand crafted and released Sonic the Hedgehog fan games with collision glitches and graphics of random resolutions)
    3. Blanket statements like, "People now associate Unity with crappy rag doll games" need sources. I really cannot imagine that the popular opinion is, "This was made with Unity, it must be a crappy rag doll game". This just sounds like a biased opinion based on a personal pet peeve considering asset flips come in all flavors (A high profile example for Unity is Uncrowded which used this asset).
    At the end of the day, it does not matter what you use to create your game even if the public opinion of your choice software is negative (A high profile example being Five Nights at Freddy's being made with Clickteam Fusion, but still being a wild success). If it has everything you need to make your game properly without affecting your vision, then use it. If your game is a good game, it will do well (With proper marketing and/or a lot of luck). Nobody is going to think, "This game is everything I ever wanted in a game, but too bad it was made with [Software Here]. It would have been so much better if this exact same game was made with [Other Software Here] instead." (Unless the software you choose is riddled with internal bugs that cause gameplay interfering issues that are out of your (The game developer) direct control. This was actually a complaint I had with Environmental Station Alpha as it had an input glitch that was internal to Clickteam Fusion. It happened rarely (some buttons would lose functionality randomly) but when it did happen it ruined an otherwise amazing game (sometimes you could not get to a save point before you restarted the game to fix it because you were in a room with a wall on the right, but the input to move left was non-functional, for instance)).
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2018
  39. SnoutUp

    SnoutUp Member

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    I'm curious to see how this works out, but so far I'm skeptical. Unless I missed something obvious, neither announcement (as vague and corporate-styled press releases can be), nor FAQ gave any information, a game developer looking for a publisher would need. Except, that there will be no funding, so that's... something. Furthermore, maybe it's a personal preference, but I like a bit more "human" with my publishers aka approach used by companies targeting games GM devs make (Devolver, Adult Swim). But maybe they'll get there with time...

    Prove me wrong and make this a great thing.
     
  40. Morendral

    Morendral Member

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  41. Posh Indie

    Posh Indie Member

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    That video shows a lot more than "crappy rag doll games", and if we go based on "This engine can make crappy games" then that applies to literally every development suite out there.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2018
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  42. FrostyCat

    FrostyCat Member

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    The reputation of the engine doesn't matter as much to a player as some of you might think. In most cases, the only thing that matters to a player without prior development experience is the superficial workings of the final product. Unless the engine misbehaves at runtime, it won't count for much, and even then only real development aficionados could lay the blame on the engine --- virtually all laymen would attribute the problem to the game's developer.

    How many times have you seen negative reviews for a specific game, that explicitly cite the reputation of its engine as the primary cause?
     
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  43. Toque

    Toque Member

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    Only developers care what engine was used. Players don’t care. They don’t know what a gamemaker or a unity even is.

    Exposure like this can’t hurt.
     
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  44. Morendral

    Morendral Member

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    I would argue that a lot more people than you might think would care. Just because they aren't familiar with unity specifically, doesn't mean they can't see the same type of low effort games that are cranked out in similar styles, some with the same assets. That's why they get 10s of sales, rather than thousands like much better produced games.
     
  45. Toque

    Toque Member

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    I’m only in mobile. I don’t really understand what your point is but I’m getting off topic anyways.
     
  46. Morendral

    Morendral Member

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    My point is that players can recognize shovelware when they see it, and more people than you think recognize that "made by unity" from an indie Dev has a high chance of being terrible
     
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  47. Toque

    Toque Member

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    Sure.

    Better to put made by gamemaker on only good games.
     
  48. nesrocks

    nesrocks Member

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    I used a lot of Flash in the past for development, and I'm still bitter that nothing that good for animation has come up yet. But I'm the first person to not want to pay for something that looks like it was made in Flash. I guess for me it's the extreme example of an engine being flooded by free disposable games. The only other engines that make me feel close to that are maybe mugen and rpg maker.

    Gamemaker already has incredibly succesful and acclaimed games. Honestly, I think gamemaker's only problem is its name.
     
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  49. Dog Slobber

    Dog Slobber Member

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    Here we go again.

    BTW what are your marketing credentials?

    Did you ever notice that those who can't stand the name GameMaker, always use just the name GameMaker? If GameMaker is such an awful name why don't you shortform it to Studio?
     
  50. Toque

    Toque Member

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    People will make amateur games with every engine. This is not a problem just reality. Easier to use the more people that will use it!

    Don't love the name "gameMaker" . GMS 2 release would of been a great opportunity for a name change if desired. The name isn't that bad. Not terribly important to me.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2018
    icebox91 and nesrocks like this.

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