Discussion Workspace ..am I the only one?

Discussion in 'GameMaker Studio 2 Community Tech Support' started by AncientPaul, Dec 6, 2016.

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  1. AncientPaul

    AncientPaul Member

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    re:- the new "workspace" in GMS2.

    am I the only person who absolutely hates this new thing? not only do I find it awful to use but I find it very confusing and much harder to work with than gms 1.4.x

    Just wondering if anyone else is feeling the same or I'm out on a limb on my own regarding this.
    (tbh if it wasn't for this, I'd already have bought gms2 as the other new features are superb)
     
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  2. psyke

    psyke Member

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    You're not the only one, I've seen a lot of users complaining about the new IDE as well.
    Personally? I loved the new IDE, and everything changed when I discovered the CTRL+TAB feature, that thing changed my life. lol.
     
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  3. 0xCA5E

    0xCA5E Member

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    I really like the new UI, there are just a couple kinks to work out. One being that on my laptop, I'll be typing code and if there is a syntax error in the code the window on the bottom will pop up. It pops up right over the error code so I try hiding the window to see my code, but the moment I click on anything else, it hides my code again. It should scroll to the error so it's visible on the screen like Visual Studio does etc.
     
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  4. gnysek

    gnysek Member

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    Ctrl+T is also good.
     
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  5. zbox

    zbox Member GMC Elder

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    Yeah - hate it.

    I don't want to be locked into a "workspace".

    I want windows i can manipulate outside of the workspace, it's what theyre for.
     
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  6. Llama_Code

    Llama_Code Member

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    Ya with using CTRL+T and CTRL+TAB I don't even use the resource tree anymore I just keep it folded up.

    I love the new UI and its already paying for its itself in productivity gains, and I can do more faster, and I'm sure it will only improve.

    @0xCA5E, I believe @Mike said they are changing it so the syntax error box doesent pop up like that.
     
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  7. Dogarooski

    Dogarooski Member

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    @0xCA5E I'm pretty sure you can disable that in the preferences.
     
  8. Ubu

    Ubu Member

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    Last edited: Dec 6, 2016
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  9. David Richard

    David Richard Member

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    Being a Windows hardcore user, I have ALWAYS been used with the Windows system. The old way of working never handicaped me as I';m used with it. Windows is Windows, you work with Windows, you close, minimise and restore windows atc... So the new Workspace to me does not make me want to use GMS2. Each time I open it, I hesitate and close it again. It's too complicated and takes time to load just the initial screen and within the workspace area, I get lost scrolling inside a restrained area as in GMS1, the windows were not contrained into a small area inside the GMS window, so Yes, I agree, I absolutely hate the workspace. And still noting that the Windows inside the workspace don't even act as normal windows should act in Windows. GMS2 is like a transition from Windows 7 to 8. No more start menus and we completely lost view of what Windows was until they released Windows 10. So my guess is that if the staff does not want to look further inside the GUI / IDE, well a bunch of us will wait until V3 because our comments are ignored for V2.

    A little note with the Control + TAB shortcut: This does not make for the windows that appear outside the view. When you open a tile and open up tile animation, you get several other...I should says, work areas as GMS2 forgot the definition of windows in Windows...When using Ctrl + TAB, it does not permit you to go directly to your tile animation area. While as in Windows mode, when you are in your tile window and decided to choose tile animation, well, your tile window is now shown as tile animation. You close your work in tile animation and then you get back to your tile properties, so simple. At the most, use tabs instead or workspaces just to stop that infinit scrolling we need to do in Workspace mode, boy am I scrolling a long time EVEN when using Ctrl+TAB..
     
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  10. AdventurousDrake

    AdventurousDrake Member

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    Sorry, I absolutely love the new GUI. I can just leave stuff open for easy access, no confirm clicking all the time, and if things become too cluttered, I just open a new workspace and close the old one. The reason I bought it is because of the new GUI lol. (It's difficult to please everyone)
     
  11. RichHopefulComposer

    RichHopefulComposer Member

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    I love the new workspace!
     
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  12. zbox

    zbox Member GMC Elder

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    Also, why all the custom imagery in the toolbars, icons etc etc

    normal windows-styled windows please
     
  13. Samuel Venable

    Samuel Venable Time Killer

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    I haven't tried it yet due to the fact I still need to get a 64bit Windows computer, but I've seen videos and read enough to draw to the reasonable conclusion I probably won't like it much either, might even hate it, as you say.

    1) What YoYoGames calls a "workspace" and what 2) Microsoft, CodeBlocks, and many other IDE creators call a "workspace" are two very different things. When I saw the word "workspace" my initial reaction was "Awsome! YoYoGames finally added the ability to load multiple projects simulaneously into one IDE instance!" only to be disapointed that wasn't what they meant, even though that's what practically all major IDE developing companies mean when they say "workspace".

    As a side note, 1.4 handled the job the right way, it was pretty similar to how Visual Studio does it, with the whole window-scheme, not this new thing YoYoGames calls a "workspace". It looks like a cluttered mess, just waiting to die as a feature, quite honestly.
     
  14. 0xCA5E

    0xCA5E Member

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    Yeah don't get me wrong YoYo, the new UI workspace concept is innovative and dope ass fresh! :cool::D I'm sure rough edges will be smoothed with time.
     
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  15. sylvain_l

    sylvain_l Member

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    me too the word "workspace" confuse me; but for most I think I just need to get used to the new way.
    some feature are great once you get around their "unusual way"

    p.s.
    for those who like windows, you can mostly unpin tab into their own window, for workspace and similar its easy just undock the tab; for code file just drop the tab on the game maker title bar (as you can dock them dropping the tab in dockable space)
     
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  16. Here is my suggestion as an alternate UI. Object settings to the left that changes depending if you are editing an object, room, sprite etc. Tabs on top that represents the object/room/sprite etc, resources to the right.

    So when you dubbleclick your object/room/sprite etc in the resource tab, instead of opening it in an workspace, it opens up as a new tab. This UI is more sutible for low res screens. And also, code folding!!!!

    Im not saying that I want to remove the "Workspace"-UI. Simply just have a "tick"-option in the preferences of what you want.

    What do you guys think?

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Jehal

    Jehal Guest

    I can relate to this.
    It does not feel as intuitive and workflow revolutionizing as I expected.
    My primary issue is that you often find yourself navigating around in the workspace field to find what you are looking for.
    The workspaces quickly starts to appear messy and time consuming to navigate. As a result I try to avoid using it like that, which is why it feels a bit pointless to me.

    I'll admit that I have only been using GM2 for a short time, while I've been using GMS for many years, meaning I have a lot of habits that needs to be rewired.
    For now, my development speed is slowed down significantly while I am trying to adapt. Hopefully the new ways are paying off in the long run.
     
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  18. QatariGameDev

    QatariGameDev Member

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    This the best suggestion i would like to see in the preferences, I vote +1000 !!

    The new interface is hard to work with on the small screens, This solution with multiple tabs can ease the process for rapid development.
     
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  19. Ubu

    Ubu Member

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    This is a good suggestion. Not only is it a clean UI, quick to maneuver and well suited for small monitors and laptops, but it's also more in style with the rest of the GMS2 UI.

    +1
     
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  20. chance

    chance predictably random Forum Staff Moderator

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    My feeling as well. The new interface felt very awkward at first. But now that I'm using it regularly, I'm comfortable with it. I can switch between different object's code blocks much more quickly than with the old GM system. In fact, whenever I have to open GM1.4, I'm reminded how annoying it was to constantly open and close and re-open windows, instead of just scrolling.

    This doesn't mean the new system can't be improved, of course. With alternatives for small screens, for example. But for large desktop screens, the basic idea behind the Studio 2 interface seems like a major improvement now that I've gotten used to it.
     
  21. xot

    xot GMLscripter GMC Elder

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    This cannot be emphasised enough. Begining developers cannot be expected to have anything but modest displays. There are simple options to compact the current GUI, without losing anything substantive. I'd like to see those explored.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2016
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  22. zendorf

    zendorf Guest

    Agreed! I am finding it feels very cramped on a standard FHD 15" laptop. The new interface feels like it was designed for a hiDPI (at least QHD) and large format monitor. The linked window and workspace system seems like it was designed more to accommodate the DnD users, with the GML exclusive coders being an afterthought.

    The main issue is that when coding, you have a floating window peeking through a docked window, which makes basic tasks such as scrolling and closing the window far more difficult that it needs to be. It ends up becoming a tiresome scroll-athon much of the time. The code editor would have been much better implemented as taking up an entire tabbed window by itself, since that it where you spend most of your time.

    Btw, I love the mockup from @Joakim Sundqvist ...very nice use of space! I could easily live with this setup.
     
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  23. Aviox

    Aviox Member

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    I'm a fan of @Joakim Sundqvist 's mock-up. Panning around in a workspace is a cool concept, but at 1920x1080, it feels like looking through a small window in a submarine to get a good view of the ocean. It doesn't quite provide me with a perspective I'm happy with. Having fingertip access to every open object seems like a cleaner way to go, and reminds me of Visual Studio's format. I understand the desire to have a visual workflow, and like how middle-clicking scripts opens it beside the code it's referenced from, but other than that and aesthetics, I haven't felt a ton of benefit to the workspace model.

    I don't hate it, but swimming around for things is awkward. I'd like to at least see easier ways to navigate between what you already have open. (for example, Ctrl+T should distinctly mark open and recently opened resources at the top of the list by default before typing anything, and Ctrl+Tab should work more like alt+tab, with toggling support and more visual feedback of what you're tabbing between.)
     
  24. Claire

    Claire Member

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    Have you taken a look at the 'Text Editors' section in the preferences, there are a number of preferences to choose whether to open scripts/shaders/object events as full screen editors instead of in the workspace.
     
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  25. MrCook

    MrCook Member

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    Would appreciate:
    1. a shortcut for "Windows"=>"Show All" workspace context menu option.
    2. scroll bars for workspaces.
    3. workspace minimap.
    4. [edit] at the workspace overview (CTRL+Tab), when hovering over the active windows pane, I'd like the workspace view to focus on the highlighted window. Or make that a two click process (1st click focus, 2nd click choose and close overview), so hovering over many windows doesn't make the display go nuts.
    Workspaces aren't bad. They just need more control over them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2016
  26. AnonyMouse

    AnonyMouse Member

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    I cant find my stuff... big things everywhere, hiding other things. But I am a new, may be will find a way... But I don't like such big changes. I would prefer alternatives and something new as an alternative because I am used with the old way. It is painful.
    Also I have met before node systems, for example XSI and other 3d, it is great, but, huh, well, GM is something absolutely different and looks more as bad organized tables.
    There are some great new things but I think I will wait a lot until I start to use that version. Maybe at that time the GM 3 will be available :)
    It is looking ugly but it is enough for the idea:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2016
  27. zendorf

    zendorf Guest

    Thanks for your reply. This does seem to be the best solution at the moment. The main problem being that you can get lost in all the various create and step tabs from different objects. You also have to jump back and forth between this tabbed code window and workspaces for event selection etc, which is why the mockup earlier in this thread is a great idea.

    If I can learn to be disciplined and close down code tabs and objects windows as soon as I have finished using them then this is workable. It does however question the validity of the multiple workspace workflow as compared to something more immediate and context aware like you would use in Unity, Godot or C4D....ie select an object and see all the related properties related to it appear in a docked window.
     
  28. Octopus_Tophat

    Octopus_Tophat Member

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    This is genius, I really hope the GM staff takes a good look at this. I don't hate workspaces either, and I DO use ctrl + tab and ctrl + T, which are really helpful. But what's missing is an easy way to ALWAYS see what stuff is already open. Like you can just, at a glance, without having to use shortcut keys, see what's open. Even if you zoom out the workspace, you can't really make out anything so you still can't see what everything is. Having to press ctrl tab so often does get a bit annoying. If everything was just shown in the tabs, INCLUDING objects, sounds, etc., it would be easier to get an idea of what's going on.

    I'm often blown away by how crazy my workspace has gotten from using ctrl t/ctrl tab to open new windows. I'll zoom out and be like "Jesus how did this happen?!"
     
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  29. Octopus_Tophat

    Octopus_Tophat Member

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    Ok here comes my IDE rant.
    complainy.png
    1: These tabs are ugly. Not only is "create" underlined in green, but the whole tab is outlined in green, and the green bleeds off to the right of the bottom of the tab. There's just too much going on. Get rid of that bleeding effect and the underline. And it should be flush with the top of the whole window. There's a gap of grey from the window to the tab, and to the left of the tab too. Why? Just make it flush.

    2: For these three buttons, how about instead of opening those tiny windows, the buttons just expand and have the contents of the windows in them?

    3: These "chains" are totally unnecessary. If all you can do with connected windows is move them up and down, there's really no purpose to have them. The thin black line in-between windows is enough to convey that they are connected.

    4: When the resource tree is expanded, this search region takes up too much space. We already have CTRL + T. For the people that don't know about CTRL + T, just put a magnifying glass icon at the top of the resource panel or something. We don't need to see this at all times.

    5: Why does it say resources twice here? Unnecessary, and looks cluttered. I know it's a "dock" thing, but I don't even know why these dock panel things exist. There's not really much flexibility with them, and not many things to be docking anyway.

    6: Look at how wide this window is..

    7: These expand panel arrows should work by mousing over them. Having to actually click them makes them basically useless. Who's actually going to bother opening and closing them over and over again?

    8: This, believe it or not, is my least favorite thing about GM2. I think the top right corners of windows are the absolute ugliest thing in the world. Why do they have to be so damn messy and over-complicated? Just make it sleek and easily readable. That weird indent at the top looks like something you could click on. I always used to click on them trying to find out what they were for, until I realized bookmarks go there. Why does that need to be there? The gap between the close icon and the top of the window drives me nuts too. I drew my own version of what I think would look the best. That crappily-drawn red X is a close without saving, which essentially undo's everything since the window was opened, a button I think we really need.

    9: Why is there so much room for the line numbers? No one will ever have code long enough to justify this area being so wide.

    10: Just a little thing. We totally don't need a "create executable" shortcut button. How often do people use that?

    11: I should be sleeping instead of doing this.

    I know this stuff is all very picky, but it all adds up. I feel like GM2 was going for a sleek look, but it just looks complicated and busy in some areas.

    It needs to look cleaner.
     
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  30. gnysek

    gnysek Member

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    Resource tree is completely rewritten in GMS 2.1.0 (or maybe 2.0.8, don't know when they gonna release it, but changes are great!).

    As you can see, those windows can be resized by grip bar on bottom, and moved around workspace. If they would be docked inside object, it won't be that easy to move them/resize them.

    Jus because if you add another panel, you would only see top title.

    If you put /// @desc comment in first line, it will be displayed here, so it's not that wide.

    A lot of people would open/close it by mistake. Also you can press F12. I don't know a IDE which do it on hover. Any of them. Neither Visual Studio, Eclipse, Unity, Android Studio, Netbeans nor Emacs, Vim and others.

    Because you can put breakpoint and bookmarks ?


    I think you don't know a lot of features about GMS2 and complain about it, while lot of things have sense.
     
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  31. Mike

    Mike nobody important GMC Elder

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    1) Have a hunt, someone did a Visual Studio "skin", you may prefer that. The whole IDE has been written so users can skin it, which means if you don't like this one, use another one.

    1,4) The resource tree is changing in the next release, it's a lot nicer, and a lot more user definable

    7) yuck... no. I have multiple monitors, every time i moved to another one and the mouse "happened" to stop on one, it'd expand. That's horrible.

    9) Yeah, there's a lot that can go in the gutter. Bookmarks, error reporting, breakpoints etc.

    10) I use it all the time. :)

    Going forward we will be reviewing a lot of the UI, and making adjustments. While I think it looks lovely, I do think there's too much "chrome" - the dead space between things. We'll be looking to try and compact a lot of this over time. But this will take time, we're a limited resource and there's lots of other things to do.

    If the dead space annoys you, look in preferences, in general settings->DPI over ride. Try setting it to around 80%. This will shrink everything down "just a little". You can then increase the font in the code editor using F7/F8. It'll give you a tighter packed layout for now.
     
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  32. Octopus_Tophat

    Octopus_Tophat Member

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    Thanks for the reply. I actually edited the #8 thing myself :)
    I totally forgot about breakpoints and errors, etc. My bad.
    I'm still standing with the hover thing though. It's a feature I'd personally like to have. It couldn't be that hard to implement a preference for it right? I only have one monitor, I just think it would feel right for me.
    I'd also like an option to get rid of the "chains". Just make it so we can set the segments to 0 or something. They just seem a little too... idk, like unprofessional to me.

    Let me also suggest something that can't be fixed with skins. Make it so code windows don't have a tab if they only have 1 tab. Only bring that tab dock up when you try to drag another code block into it. Having a window and a tab just say the same thing is redundant.

    Looking back, I definitely seemed a little aggressive in my post. I didn't mean any negativity. I was just in rant mode :D

    Edit: In other news, I installed the VS skin and now game maker wont even open at all. Sweet.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2017
  33. gnysek

    gnysek Member

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    It's not hard to implement a preference, however there's already about 50 items on roadmap, and about ~400 suggestions in bugtracker. While there's just a few guys as YYG and they need to fix bugs in GMS1, GMS2, Runners multiplied by each export platform.
    I'm also angry that for some features we need to wait that long (soon it will be one year since GMS2 release), but to have more people work on it they need to make price higher, however then probably they gonna sell less licences which will come to firing guys and we came to same point at which we are now. There's a lot of more important features to implement than "hide panel on hover if preference selected". You can live with that :)
     
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  34. BifDog

    BifDog Guest

    I was getting ready to mockup something similar. I feel like i would love this option. Additionally, if you imagine your object tab (an object sidebar with the event scripts to the right) as one floating window in the existing infinite workspace, I think that could also work. Basically, I wish everything about an object was contained in one window / tab, even if you are using the workspace.

    In your above mockup, if you could have 2 column view for entire objects, that would be my dream workspace.
     
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  35. muki

    muki Member

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    It's not ideal, but I'm getting used to it.

    Just not a fan of forced docking. Let me put windows where I want!
     
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  36. Brandiin

    Brandiin Guest

    I'm struggling at the moment but I'll get used to it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 28, 2017
  37. acidemic

    acidemic Member

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    Agree, this would be the perfect solution for the low-res pc's, laptops and windows tablets! Sometimes I even struggle on the 27" 2560x1440 screen while 1.x was ok to work on the 1280x800 tablet.
     
  38. Nikles

    Nikles Member

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    This is my personal opinion but...
    I Love the new workspace paradigm. To be honest I used to hate it. But then not only I got used to it... I literally fell in love with it.

    It sped up development and productivity.

    And I'm on a 1366 x 768 laptop (with GMS2 DPI override at 85%)
     
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  39. AncientPaul

    AncientPaul Member

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    Update:-
    I contacted steam and because I'd only used the software 6-7hrs in total, they were happy to refund me.

    I only refunded because on my monitor GMS2 was such a huge pain to use and I'm not the only one here, a friend of mine also said when he tried it on 1080p and it was terrible, luckly he has a 4k monitor so it's fine on that, but I do not have such a luxury.

    however, for the YYG devs, I will say this: Should GMS2 ever receive an update/patch that adds a new ui system or an option to have a 1.4-like ui, then I will rebuy the software right then. It'll probably never happen but I live in hope.
     
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  40. Cpaz

    Cpaz Member

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    Yes. Yes. A MILLION TIME YES. This was what I was initially expecting from GMS2 to begin with. I Also would appreciate a way to collapse individual tabs.
    IE: CTRL+Left collapses the properties, CTRL+Right would collapse the resources, and CTRL+Down would collapse the console. I do appreciate F12 but sometimes I want to only collapse one or two things, and be able to bring them back up quickly. The way everything is setup now just feels a tad sluggish.

    I should emphasize that all of this should be optional. We have a preferences menu for a reason.
     
  41. Wayfarer

    Wayfarer Member

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    Wow!! That layout is awesome!!!

    When I'm using the workspace it feels like there's too much in my way between each task. It's nice that you get a more visual version of what's going on, but in practice I don't seem to benefit from it at all (admittedly I've only just started using the GMS2 demo). Everything else about the GMS2 interface works extremely well... I mean, functionality aside, the workspace even LOOKS nice, it's just more the practical aspect of it (for me).

    I really hope the YoYo devs will consider something similar-ish to that layout suggested by @Joakim Sundqvist.
     
  42. Neo

    Neo Member

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    Yes GM2 interface is awful

    I am using GM 1.4 until they come out with GM3 They changed it so much that you dont even want to try it. Bring back tabs and a more logical interface system. Waiting. If they dont I will switch platforms to Unity or some new system. Everybody thinks the same thing as me they just wont admit it.
     
  43. RichHopefulComposer

    RichHopefulComposer Member

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    I like GMS2's layout. Speak for yourself, @Neo.
     
  44. BaBiA Game Studio

    BaBiA Game Studio Member

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    Don't try to include everyone in your personal feelings towards GMS2. I like the new workspace setup of GMS2. If I didn't, I would admit it. :D
     
  45. psyke

    psyke Member

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    I've posted in this thread one year ago saying that I loved the IDE, my opinion has not changed since then, actually the more I use GMS2, the more I like it.
    I would never start a new project on GMS 1.4 unless for a very specific reason.
     
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  46. Ruimm

    Ruimm Member

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    even though I think there is room for improvement I do enjoy working on GM:S2 way more than I did in 1.4. I think the whole idea of having all open objects laid out in the workspace does not work as it gets cluttered and its hard to navigate. But I just use the resource tree or some shortcuts and it works great. Oh... and I'm on a 13" laptop :)
     
  47. Michaelp800

    Michaelp800 Member

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    I can't handle the new design. This is the only reason, why I don't use GMS 2.0!
    Is there a GMS 1.4 looking workspace design/layout template for GMS 2?
     
  48. Yal

    Yal GMC Memer GMC Elder

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    3,703
    Gotta love how this topic has been necrobumped twice now...

    YellowAfterLife made a code editor that works for both GMS1 and GMS2, might that be interesting to you? https://yellowafterlife.itch.io/gmedit
     
  49. Kitsune

    Kitsune Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2019
    Posts:
    1
    Since I discovered gmedit (via this forum) most of my issues have evaporated, you should definitely check it out if you haven't already!
     
  50. Nocturne

    Nocturne Friendly Tyrant Forum Staff Admin

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2016
    Posts:
    6,896
    Indeed. Closed to prevent a third...
     
    rIKmAN likes this.
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