Question - IDE Will we ever get a Linux IDE for GMS?

Discussion in 'GameMaker Studio 2 Community Tech Support' started by csanyk, Nov 2, 2016.

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  1. csanyk

    csanyk Member

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    Thanks @rwkay, that was going to be my next question, what sort of numbers would it take for it to be viable for YYG to extend GMS2 to another platform.

    When you say, YYG are not seeing that level of interest just now, can you share how it is that YYG is assessing the interest level?

    What's the best way for Linux enthusiasts make themselves visible to you?

    Obviously the main focus of YYG's efforts with regard to 2.0 is on getting the Windows edition to release status. There's no reason we can't be discussing plans for the future, and in fact there's every reason we should be. In 2014, then-CEO Sandy Duncan had expressed that we might see GM:Next on Linux, and in 2017 we're looking at GM:Next for the first time, and there's no mention of Linux. Of course things can and have changed, and that's fine. But since it had been mentioned, naturally, it's a pertinent question to ask about what's going on. Even if their answer isn't what I was hoping, it's still great to hear from them about what their current plans are, and for them to be willing to have a conversation with us about it.

    Agreed. Twitter was what I had handy. @Mike had indicated that YYG were open to considering a Linux release if they saw demand for it, so I figured it was a starting point to establish that there is interest; nothing more. Obviously, a week-long survey that reaches only my twitter followers isn't going to establish true demand, but I thought that at least the percentages would make for a useful discussion point. 57% of 250 respondents said they would be interested in GMS on Linux. If that could be extrapolated to 57% of the entire GMS userbase (which is what, a million or so users?), that might well be enough demand. Of course, it's not that simple to extrapolate, and it's one thing to say that someone is interested in a Linux port, and another to say that someone is willing to pay for it. Still, I say it's a starting point.

    I think the next step should be for YYG to do their own assessment of what demand there might be for a Linux IDE, if they haven't already. I have to assume that as a business they are continually looking at the changing conditions in the industry they're working in and making intelligent strategic decisions about when, where, and how to position themselves. Probably they've done some research and concluded already that there isn't demand for it, rather than simply decide that without any research. But part of that process continuous assessment is receiving feedback from customers such as myself. I'm grateful that YYG have this forum, and their own employees actively participating in it, so we can have these kinds of conversations.

    By having the conversation, perhaps it will stimulate growth in interest for a Linux IDE, and others who may feel as I do but might otherwise not have said anything, can step forward and we can all be counted.
     
  2. rwkay

    rwkay YoYo Games Staff YYG Staff

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    OK from a development point of view we have the IDE running across platform and we (the company from a business point of view) have done our own market research on the Linux market (don't ask me how as I did not do it) and come to the conclusion that we cannot justify any more development time to bring the IDE to market. So it is very unlikely to happen, unless someone turns up on our door with cash to give us that pays for the final development and the support costs and a business proposition that gives us a route to profit from the Linux market, this could come from a business partner (with Linux focus) or it could come from the community coming together to raise that cash (now that is my own thoughts, not the companies).

    Russell
     
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  3. zbox

    zbox Member GMC Elder

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    Yeah but 1.4 is in 'release status' and that's exactly my concern. It's never exactly been stable, there has always been a problem.

    GMS2 Is looking sturdy as hell and the separate runtime updating stuff is a big step forward so I look forward to seeing if it pans out for a more stable product. If so then Linux sounds like a great idea, pocket-filling margins permitting.
     
  4. csanyk

    csanyk Member

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    I guess it depends what you mean by "stable". There are stable and beta branches of 1.x. Stable is... well there's still bugs in it. So I dunno. To me, all software should be zero-defect, but in the real world that's seldom the case, and so I don't believe that's what is meant by "stable".

    Anyway, the 1.x Delphi codebase is a dead end. I think YYG should support it as long as they need to, in terms of fixing defects, for users who are maintaining projects in 1.x and who won't be bringing them into 2.x any time soon, if ever. Certainly a few years, just as they supported 8.x until just recently. I wouldn't expect new features; those belong in 2.x now.
     
  5. csanyk

    csanyk Member

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    That's reasonable, and makes sense to me. Hearing "very unlikely" makes me sad, but at least there's reasoning behind it. As long as YYG are open to the possibility of working with a Linux vendor should one come forward, that's as good as I think we can hope for, for now.

    Thanks for being open with your thoughts on the matter, and outlining possible avenues by which this could feasibly happen, rather than simply dismissing it as "not happening".
     
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  6. csanyk

    csanyk Member

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    It would be best for YYG to do their own crowdfunding effort, because otherwise if it reached goal someone would have a lot of money, without any guarantee from YYG that it would really happen. But I'd be happy to pledge a license costs' worth to make it happen.
     
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  7. seevee

    seevee Member

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    I just want to add my voice to the chorus as a paid user of GMS2 on Windows - I do the vast majority of my day job development on various flavors of Linux and would love to see this ported over. It's the last piece of the puzzle for me!
     
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  8. Storyteller

    Storyteller Member

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    Good riddance. I was never a fan of him, his involvement with GM or what came out of his leadership. Perhaps now we can see real improvement to the community, the software and the games we make.
     
  9. NPT

    NPT Member

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    GM Studio, YYGs and these forums would not exist had Sandy not purchased it from Mark.

    I doubt Atari would have done anything with it.
     
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  10. Storyteller

    Storyteller Member

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    the GMC existed long before mr Duncan arrived. I dare say he did little but make money on GM and thoroughly exploit it.
     
  11. Mike

    Mike nobody important GMC Elder

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    You'd still be sitting with GM7 is Sandy hadn't bought it, mark had started to lose interest at that point which is part of the reason he sold up.
    If Atari had managed to buy it, it would be long dead by now. Not only did you get GM8.x, but GMStudio. Your dreaming if you think Studio would ever have happened if Mark was doing it on his own.
     
  12. NPT

    NPT Member

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    Yes the GMC existed. They were plagued with connection timeout errors everytime there was more than a few people logged in at once. The sales of GM 6 couldn't justify the costs of a dedicted server powerfull enough to handle the load. One of the first things Sandy did was put the GMC on a dedicated more significant server.


    You don't have a clue what you are talking about.
     
  13. Storyteller

    Storyteller Member

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    you make my point for me.

    I dont see a lot of change in Studio. Its still a kludgy mess clinging to old paradigms. GMS should have changed a lot of things it didn't.

    I do see a lot of change in attitude.
    There was a sense of community, of camaraderie. That has largely been lost. GM was a fine thing, and now it has been commercialized and ultimately sold to a company that makes gambling software. As a long time user, I dont like the way it went. Sandy made his money, now he is gone. I believe it was the only reason he was here. You might have worked with the guy and know him differently. What I do see is a lot of bad public relations coming from the culture he created at the company.
    You now have a chance to change that.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
  14. Mike

    Mike nobody important GMC Elder

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    Damn Sandy!! Getting all that money and ploughing it back in the the community! Damn him I say!
     
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  15. gnysek

    gnysek Member

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    Mark created a company to make games called "Tingly Games" and what? it's also already sold. Even Mark vanished from social media, probably concentrated on his work at Utrecht University, instead of making commercial games/applications.
     
  16. Samuel Venable

    Samuel Venable Time Killer

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    You sir, are one hard to please son of a bleepin' blippity blip blop!
     
  17. csanyk

    csanyk Member

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    I just want to see GMS running natively on Linux. Whatever Sandy had to do with it, he's not here now, and talking about it isn't going to make GMSonLinux happen. It'd be better to focus on things that could make it happen.
     
  18. psyke

    psyke Member

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    I'm not an expert, but I think Linux deserves some love. As someone mentioned before, a powerful 2D Game Engine running on Linux is something that would attract a lot of people.
    I would also love to be able to test my games on my Raspberry Pi 2.
     
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  19. RichHopefulComposer

    RichHopefulComposer Member

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    We're getting off track here, and getting dangerously close to disparaging poor Mark and Sandy, who are both not around to defend themselves.
    I'm with csanyk...let's get back to discussing how to get GM running on Linux, hahah! =D

    @Nocturne @Mike @rwkay: Is there any chance of YYG ever running KS campaigns to gauge interest/raise funds for these sorts of things? It seems the fairest way to judge something like this....if Linux users want Linux licenses, let them pay for them in advance, plus a bit extra for maintenance costs for the next few years. Any chance of that happening, or are crowd-funding campaigns a no-go? I don't think you guys have the funds or the man-power of some of the larger engine companies out there, but you do have a very strong community here, thanks to your continued engagement with us. I think a lot of people on this forum and elsewhere would be more than happy to donate some actual money to help improve our favorite engine. =)
     
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  20. Jobo

    Jobo Member GMC Elder

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    Someone made a petition once to bring GameMaker Studio (2?) to Linux. After a month it had reached between 30 and 40 signatures (you would need thousands of signatures... if not tens of thousands). You could always gauge interest by making a new petition (and make sure people hear about it)... This would probably be your best bet, at least to convince YoYo that there is significant interest in this.
     
  21. psyke

    psyke Member

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    Sorry to ask, but can't you guys at YYG create a poll on the official website?
    I don't think anybody here on the forums can reach a lot of people, so any poll coming from any user here will be worthless.
     
  22. CedSharp

    CedSharp Member

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    Well, I don't see why they would create a poll as a request from a handfull of people on the forum...
    I'd love it, but I don't think it's that easy to simply ask them to do so.

    Creating a campaing and advertising it is not a simple task, so anyone thinking "I'll just create a poll and wait till it gets thousands of signature" will realize
    that it's not that simple. You gotta tell people, on many different media and social network, about your poll. You also must give them a good reason to
    want to go read it. Simply posting a link "Poll for GameMaker on linux" won't get their attention ( most of them anyways )

    The guy who made the post in the past posted it on facebook and on the forums.. and I barely even saw it. If it wasn't for this post in the forum, I would've missed it.
    So the visibility of the poll is something important, not just the poll itself.
     
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  23. Jobo

    Jobo Member GMC Elder

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    In my opinion that would be misleading. It's not the company actively looking for a Linux audience, it's a community-driven interest. That's all I can add to this already exhausted topic. If you want a Linux port, you should* start by proving that there is significant interest.

    *This is what I would do. I can't give you official responses.
     
  24. RichHopefulComposer

    RichHopefulComposer Member

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    The problem with some random user creating a poll is that nobody is going to care about it. Nobody will see it, and 90% of the people who do will gloss right over it, whether they want a Linux version of GM or not.
    Of course, you guys can't go creating and advertising polls for every suggestion on the forum, either, so I dunno.

    Looks like we won't have GM running on Linux for awhile, hahah.
     
  25. Jobo

    Jobo Member GMC Elder

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    Not with that mentality you won't :)
     
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  26. psyke

    psyke Member

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    From Russel:
    If it's a community-driven interest, why did you bothered to make a market research on the Linux platform?
    Why not create a public poll so you guys can be more transparent about all that "research" process? What is the cost involved in adding a poll into your website?
     
  27. FrostyCat

    FrostyCat Member

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    Even when community interest is enough to start a commercial project, no amount of kickstarting or "innovative community engagement" is enough to sustain it. Only market forces can sustain a commercial project, especially one at the scale of GMS 2.

    Relying on a community public poll is a silly way to gauge the commercial viability of a Linux IDE, especially around here. It will either devolve into an echo chamber of "I want it" without financial justification or something that can't have sufficient statistical significance attached to it, or both. It's not to say that market research reports are entirely bias-free or accurate, but considering how many more different data sources such reports typically reference and how much wider the scope is, I know which one is more credible.

    And let's not forget the general behaviour of the current community when it comes time to pony up. A significant portion would balk at 3-digit sums, and not that long ago, this same portion balked at paltry 1- to 2-digit markups caused by exchange rates. How some of you would believe a kickstarter would work in this kind of climate is beyond me.

    Way too many of you are too community- and idealism-minded to see commercial-minded issues, and it's a recurrent theme. Always one group singing Kumbaya around a campfire and the other seeing not necessarily pleasant things as they really are.
     
  28. GMWolf

    GMWolf aka fel666

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    GMS 2 is fully written in C# right?
    Should it not be rather trivial to make a Linux build?
     
  29. psyke

    psyke Member

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    It's not about creating a Kickstarter, it's about getting STARTED.
    Mike said a poll would be a good start, but we (users) don't have the power to gather a good amount of data because we don't have a twitter or facebook account with thousands of followers, that's why YYG is important here. Asking for the community to do that is just insane.

    I'm also not asking for a full market campaign, I'm just asking for YYG to do some tweets and polls on their website, so we can get started. They have:

    82K followers on Twitter.
    280K followers on Facebook.

    It's pointless to think about money or Kickstarter when we don't even have the basic necessary information.
    The poll is just the tip of the iceberg, they could do a survey afterwards so that people could explain the reason why they want a Linux module, and so on...
     
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  30. Tthecreator

    Tthecreator Your Creator!

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    I would absolutely love getting game maker studio for linux. I would completely drop windows.
    However, if the development and maintaining costs were very high (like they are) I would rather prefer this money to be put into extending the features of game maker itself rather than to put the same features on a different platform.
     
  31. csanyk

    csanyk Member

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    A petition or poll like that needs to be visible in order to get a meaningful response. If you make an official poll, and make it highly visible, with some marketing behind it, I have no doubt you'd see a much greater response. If this petition was a few years ago, it's pretty meaningless now. Things have changed a lot.

    From what @Mike and @rwkay had said above, they already have it running on Linux internally. So the expense isn't in development or maintenance. But there's expenses in support of Linux users. As Russell said, they'd need to see interest in the 10's of thousands for them to know it would be worth doing.

    They have said that they have done marketing research, and concluded that those numbers aren't there at this time. I don't know what their marketing research methods are, or if they're periodically re-evaluating whether it's time -- a good business likely would.

    My hunch is that if you asked a bunch of Linux greybeards who are FOSS zealots, they'll tell you, "Why do I want GMS? I already have gcc and vi, and those are open source! I'll only use GMS if it's $free and open source!"

    If you ask Linux users, "would you like to see commercial software companies pay attention to Linux and treat them as first-class customers?" you'd get a different response.

    If you ask GMS users, "Would you prefer to develop in GMS on Linux or on Windows, all else being equal" you might well get a different response entirely.

    You might also get a different response from game developers who make their primary income from game development, as opposed to newbie/hobbyist users.

    If you ask game developers who don't use GMS, "Would you be more or less inclined to try GMS if it were available on Linux?" you'd get a different response.

    Bottom line, it matters who you're asking and how you ask. And when. It's something that should be asked regularly, to see if the time may be right, if things have changed or not.

    @Mike said "If you can show the numbers are there, we'd consider doing it..." well I don't know how I can show the numbers are there. I can set up a petition or poll, but it's easy to counter-claim that those numbers are meaningless -- responses can be faked, people will sign anything, singing a petition isn't a sure guarantee of a sale, etc. Whatever the case, when they say that their marketing research indicates that it's not a viable business at this time, I believe them at their word. Disappointing as it may be, I understand.

    On the other hand, you can make an "if you build it, they will come" argument that if YYG want there to be a market for GMS on Linux, they can take positive action toward building that market. In a lot of businesses, it takes time to build up your customers to where you're actually making money.

    Mike/Russell seem to be saying "If you can deliver us 30-40k new customers, we'll build whatever you want." Well, if I could do that, I'd certainly want a commission on those sales!

    All I can do is keep making noise that GMS on Linux is wanted, and hope that enough people will join me eventually, enough to make it an attractive proposition for YYG to entertain doing it.

    If YYG is truly interested, they could take some actions on their own, such as an official poll, or a sign-up list for users who want to be notified if/when a Linux edition is ever offered, and continuing to have conversations with us in these forums about it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
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  32. NPT

    NPT Member

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    Having a YYG poll, while being an excellant indicator about how many existing YYGs customers would like a Linux port, it would be a terrible indicator about how a linux port would increase business.

    Converting existing Windows Studio Users to Linux does nothing to increase revenues, sales are only transferred, in fact it would harm revenues because now support costs would increase. Add to that supporting Linux accross their fragmented distro market is overly exensive because of the fragmentation.

    YYGs likely has a much better handle on the Linux demand because potential customers, espessially new customers will be contacting them via email, helpdesk, trade shows and industry contacts.

    If the demand was there, they would know.
     
  33. csanyk

    csanyk Member

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    Yes, and no. A Linux edition isn't simply a matter of expanding YYG's customer base. It's also a question of how to best serve their existing customers.

    Strictly speaking it would be revenue-neutral; it would add cost, and therefore decrease profits.

    But that's ONLY if sales remain constant, and they charge the same for the Linux edition as they do for Windows.

    YYG don't have to worry about supporting multiple distros if they don't want to. Deciding which distro is not an easy matter, but they've already shown a preference for Ubuntu, since the Linux build target is designed to create builds that will run on Ubuntu. So the fragmented Linux market is a bit of a false argument.

    Of course, there's a significant and growing marketshare in Android and ChromeOS. Both are linux-based. Perhaps YYG should also consider those as potential growth opportunities.

    Microsoft has dominated the desktop PC business since DOS, but have grown increasingly out of touch with many users. The Windows 10 forced upgrade nonsense was a huge strain on Microsoft's credibility. They're still a hugely important company that controls a massive chunk of the market. But that's not guaranteed to be the case forever.

    I would assume that they would be in the best position to know how much interest there might be in a Linux edition of the IDE.

    I would NOT assume that they really know. In business, pretty much everything is couched in uncertainty, a best guess based on available data. Gathering that data is always imperfect. So I'm sure they know to a degree. But that doesn't mean that they know.

    Again, I don't know what their methods of conducting market research are. They know, obviously, but they haven't shared that. Like I've said, I trust them if they say they're not seeing the numbers. I'm still curious as to how they're gauging those numbers. It'd be great to have an answer to that question, but I don't know that it's realistic to expect it.

    Only if their methods are sound, and if they're really looking. What I can tell you is they didn't come to me, asking, so they undercounted by at least one. I'm (politely) standing up to be counted, and I hope everyone else who'd like to see GMS on Linux will come forth as well.
     
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  34. psyke

    psyke Member

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    But that's exactly what the poll is for.
    We can't talk about business here before knowing how much people would be interested in a Linux module. That's why we need to go through phases, and the first phase is to collect some general information about the interest of your clients.

    If the results are satisfactory, then we can go to PHASE 2, if not, well... Then we can forget about Linux and move on.
     
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  35. Yanevski

    Yanevski Member

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    - But because I don't think that YYGs will recoup their investment
    Why do you as a user care whether a company makes good or bad investments of its money in something you don't even care about?
    I mean I think self driving cars are a terrible idea but Google keeps pumping more and more money into it.

    - Distribution fragmentation
    It basically comes down to kernel version and packaging. Just say which kernel versions are supported and the problem is almost solved.
    It's not like every distro is a new operating system begging for a port.

    - Small market share
    But we don't know that. There's hasn't been a poll yet so what makes you say this? Obviously there are plenty of people who showed interest right in this thread so to say "nobody wants this" is false. Again, this is something YYG has to decide upon. Even if there was a bigger market share than Windows they could opt not to bother.

    - Of the small market share, many will not pay for software, they inherantly believe software should be free (free as in free beer)
    You do know pirating software is not something Linux exclusive?
    But there are plenty of people in this thread who expressed they would. Maybe you meant the MAJORITY of people will not pay? If so I'm sure you can provide some evidence for those claims.

    - Of the small market share, many will not support software that isn't open. Free as in freedom. (not free as in free beer)
    This is the most ridiculous point of all because these people were never interested in Game Maker in the first place.
    It's like saying "most users of Windows are middle aged people who hate video games so why should we release a game making program for Windows??"
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
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  36. RichHopefulComposer

    RichHopefulComposer Member

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    You're right, Jobo. I'll just believe hard enough, and my unofficial Twitter poll will reach 100,000 "yes" votes in favor of GM on Linux! Anything is possible!
    Give me a break. :p
     
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  37. csanyk

    csanyk Member

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    I don't expect YYG to do things that are counter to their interests as a business, but yeah, if they make money or not on a specific thing they do, it matters little to me as long as they remain viable and in business. I'm not a stockholder. In general what's good for them should be good for us, though.

    Exactly. I'd expect YYG to support one major distro, like Ubuntu, or Mint, or maybe all Debian-based distros, or something like that. Maybe they can do better than that, I don't know what it takes to be compatible with a distro or family of distros. It'd be nice if they could hit all the major ones, but not necessary. Just one for starters would be great.

    Agreed. It's an assumption, based on the overall small marketshare of Linux desktop users. But a lot of those users are sophisticated, technical types, who might well like to use GameMaker. And there's also people like me, who would love to switch over to Linux as my full-time desktop, but GMS is the one application that's still holding me back. Linux is very much ready for everyday desktop use, and has been for a few years now.

    I would certainly pay for it. I paid for the Windows version, I would pay for a Linux version. It's a bit of an unwarranted assumption that all Linux users only want software that is $Free. Many games sold on Steam run on Linux, and people pay for those. Just because there's a lot of $Free software available on Linux doesn't mean it all is. Linux users are more concerned than most about Libre software, and of course who doesn't like $Free software, but you can make the same argument about Windows users -- look how many complain about having to pay for a license, or about the restrictions of GMS2 Trial Mode, and not having a full free Standard version anymore. Bunch of ingrates! ;-)

    Yes, agreed. Again this is an assumption based on old stereotypes. As Linux becomes an increasingly mainstream OS, more consumers who don't know or understand or care about software freedom are comingto use Linux because it is good. Many consumer devices run some variant of Linux, and the end user doesn't even realize that's what it is. Would I love it if GMS were FOSS? Of course, sure. Who wouldn't? But I am not demanding or expecting this. I simply want to move off of Windows, and GMS is the last thing holding me back from doing so. When/if that happens, I'll be free enough. If it doesn't happen soon enough, then likely I'll pursue open-source game engines and learn to do development in one of them. I like GMS for now because I know it well and find it easy to use and get stuff done in. But it's not the only game in town.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
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  38. Yanevski

    Yanevski Member

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    In this context that actually comes off as a good thing.

    Good thing RMS isn't in this thread now!
     
  39. Terminator_Pony

    Terminator_Pony Member

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    Suppose they had a +$50 upgrade from the Windows IDE to Linux? That's about half the cost Windows, and removes the need for Windows as a bonus. :)

    At this time, this is the only software keeping me on Windows.
     
  40. csanyk

    csanyk Member

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    It is a good thing. Well, it's mixed. I wish more people cared about software freedom, and about software acting in the user's best interests, and according to their wishes. That's a serious problem, and the apathy and lack of concern is a real problem. Very distressing, really.

    But people coming to Linux because it's good is a good thing. A great thing, in fact. Some people thought that open source software maintained by volunteers couldn't hope to equal the quality of professionally produced software. In fact, in many ways, it's surpassed it. Not everyone who uses software is a programmer, and so for a lot of people they don't care about the ability to see and modify the source code, because they can't understand it or modify it even if they have access to it. It's unfortunate that they don't appreciate what that freedom means, even if they themselves can't directly deal with modifying their own software themselves. But it's great that they value the usefulness of the software, and their using it provides opportunity for developers to do work-for-hire and benefit themselves as well as the community of users who work with the software.

    I've seen RMS speak in person. He's done great things for the world, and is an important figure. And he's right about a great many things. It's good that there's someone who's as ideologically rigid and pure as he is. That said, not everyone need be.
     
  41. NPT

    NPT Member

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    Jun 20, 2016
    Posts:
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    Because I understand the business side.

    YYGs has limited resources, it's not as simple as implimenting or not implimenting, it's a matter of prioritizing over what other features. At the expense of what other features will this be added. I also understand that the more profitable Studio 2 is, the more resources will be dumped into it in the future as well as the opposite, less profits means less resources.

    Stating that I don't care about Linux is not only unfounded, it's wrong. Your implication alleging I don't care, therefore I shouldn't be voicing my opinion is also juvenile.

    It's more complicated than that, it's also about dependencies, libraries, and locations of libraries and other support files.

    I think you are misunderstanding my usage of small market share. I'm not talking about anticipated market share of Studio on Linux, I'm talking about the small market share of Linux compared to Windows and OS X which is known, or estimated within a few percentage points.


    I'm not talking about Piracy at all. I'm talking about about a large percentage who simply do not buy software, I'm not suggesting they are pirating. I'm suggesting that they are accustomed to not having to buy software being reliant on a lot of good software within the open source community that is free to them.

    Your cmpletely asinine assumption that I was talking about piracy just demonstrates you're not putting any consideration and thoughtfulnes to anything I've said.

    No it's not.

    When you have got a linux market share of arguably what 2-3%, and many of them have an absolute hate on for proprietary software that narrows the potential market from 2-3% to considerably samller.

    These are the people that YYGs needs to derive their business model from and there is a hell of a lot of them that are simply not candidates.

    And serving there customer base would not be better by further fragmenting their existing and overextended help desk with another OS abd an OS that is costlier to support.
     
  42. Yanevski

    Yanevski Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Posts:
    6
    This is what packaging is about. If you don't want to bother packaging (not even for the most popular distro) a stand alone version would work just as fine on all distros.

    You basically admitted you're only making crude generalizations on something that isn't even relevant to company's decisions.
    Though 2% global market share still means tens of millions of people and Mac OS X has about the same global market share as Linux.

    Just like free software people these are people were never interested in Game Maker in the first place - why would you even count the number of people who aren't interested in your product? (except for marketing purposes)
    It doesn't even matter if these are the MAJORITY if there are ENOUGH who aren't.

    Your entire argument is based on a premise - "Well 2% feels like a small number. And because that number might be smaller it means practically nobody who uses Linux is interested in this!"
     
    seevee and csanyk like this.
  43. rui.rosario

    rui.rosario Member

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    Jun 21, 2016
    Posts:
    476
    For many years the same piece of software that kept me from transitioning fully to Linux-based OSes was GameMaker. If an IDE was released with full building capabilities for Linux I would completely transition without a second thought. So if YYG decided to release the Linux IDE I would definitely be a Linux customer.
     
  44. RichHopefulComposer

    RichHopefulComposer Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2016
    Posts:
    1,365
    Unfortunately, almost every (or just every) person in here who's saying they want GM on Linux is showing that GM would help Linux, not the other way around...

    YYG doesn't care about helping us all migrate over to Linux, guys. They care about selling more licenses than they al ready do. "I currently buy your Windows license, but I'd totally stop buying that in favor of a Linux license if you dumped a huge amount of money into a Linux module," isn't a very convincing argument, haha. ):
     
  45. rui.rosario

    rui.rosario Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2016
    Posts:
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    in my personal case they would be gaining a customer since I have not acquired GM:S 2 for Windows yet
     
    Yanevski likes this.
  46. RichHopefulComposer

    RichHopefulComposer Member

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    Unless you're saying that you refuse to buy GMS2 until a Linux module comes out, that's simply not true, unfortunately. :(

    Unless that's what you're saying, of course!
     
  47. csanyk

    csanyk Member

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    Jun 20, 2016
    Posts:
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    That's not an unreasonable opinion to have, but it's debatable what's in users' best interests.

    Knowing what users want and need is important to being able to deliver value. It's a wrong assumption to think that Windows users use Windows because they prefer it. It's the default choice of OS, a de facto standard. And many who use Windows do so under protest, because they have to. Removing obstacles to users using the OS of their choice is a good thing. Catering to all users regardless of their OS is a good thing. Is it the best thing relative to YYG's business interests? That's for them to decide. But people can reasonably have different opinions on that.

    What we know is: YYG are planning an OS X release for GMS2 on their roadmap. 1-2 years ago, it was in their vision to be on Linux eventually as well. They changed plans, as is their right, for reasons they felt were right at the time. OS X has somewhere around 5-10% marketshare; Linux has something like 1-2% marketshare. But OS X and Linux are both UNIXes, so building a GMS in a way that makes it compatible on both platforms isn't necessarily a huge amount of extra work.

    We know they can do it, and we know they have done it internally.

    I can't put myself in their position without full information and say whether it was the right decision or not to drop the plans to support a Linux release. But I can say I was disappointed by this.

    As their customer I am voicing my own wish to have the option to run GMS2 on Linux. I would love to rid myself of Microsoft, and GMS is the last application that's holding me back from going full-time Linux. It's not hard to believe that I'm in the minority, but I know I'm not alone.

    The only thing that remains is to make the case that it would be worth their costs to support users on Linux. That's not SUCH a big thing, really.

    It's only fragmenting their resources if supporting multiple platforms costs more than it brings in. If it's profitable, they can use the growth to fund the growth of their infrastructure, and provide whatever resources are necessary to keep pace with developing the tools across all platforms.

    Lots and lots of software is developed for multiple platforms, so it's not impossible, or draining. It only requires the will to act.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
  48. rui.rosario

    rui.rosario Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2016
    Posts:
    476
    Obviously not what I'm saying, but I would be much more inclined to do so
     
  49. RichHopefulComposer

    RichHopefulComposer Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2016
    Posts:
    1,365
    Then there you go. You'll buy GMS2 sooner or later. We both know you will, and that's all that matters to YYG. They don't care how inclined you were to buy it, as long as you buy it. Your money is worth the same amount either way. X'D
     
    rui.rosario likes this.
  50. csanyk

    csanyk Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2016
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    C++. And they HAVE it running on Linux internally already. The question is whether it's viable as a commercial product. They want to see 10's of thousands of customers before they'll consider it viable.
     
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