Will people please talk to me about vision points and values and vision points for success in designing the art work that is being featured?

tetris_mess

Member
Oh, you want a flatter format.

Really, please. I would be so grateful and honored if we all respected each other, however, so if anyone would chime in, that they are also interested in vision points and value, and vision points for success, maybe someone else can say they are also interested in this concept. Or, maybe someone will steer the ship in having a conversation because they actually can inspire all of us who are interested in the subject, instead of seeing what appears as weaker competition. It would be great, which is why I posted this.
 

chance

predictably random
Forum Staff
Moderator
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "vision points" and "value" in this context.

But I assume you're referring to the underlying theme (from a designer's personal viewpoint) behind a game's artwork. That's an interesting topic. One hallmark of successful game art IMO is a coherent style and a consistent theme throughout the game. That's can be difficult (for me at least).

Personally, I've never managed to achieve this. Partly because I'm a poor artist, so I tend to imitate other people's styles. The closest I came to a coherent theme was in a previous game jam where I tried to create a dark atmosphere I saw in another game.
 

Rayek

Member
What are "vision points"? I know about "vision score" used in League of Legends, but I have never encountered "vision points and values" mentioned in relation to game art.

I Googled it of course, but aside from a marketing company nothing useful was found.

Would you mind rephrasing your question?
 
Personally, I've never managed to achieve this. Partly because I'm a poor artist, so I tend to imitate other people's styles.
I'm in the same boat. The thing I find annoying is that there are people who have "bad" art but it looks good anyway because of the coherent design and because of the radical uniqueness of their style. It's like outsider art in a way. I wish that, if I'm going to stay as a bad artist, at least I could have that superpower.
 

tetris_mess

Member
@Rayek My girlfriend might be messing with me. I don't think she is, because this is just her conceptualization and planning period. She told me to go on a vision quest, and don't get too tied up in her sources if I didn't have my own. Then she makes this "L" sign on her forehead. Holding up the "L", she tells me I'm going on a vision quest, and to come back if I can be useful because I have reliable sources. So yeah, the joke @BattleRifle BR55 said slapped me in the face, and I'm not crying, it's just like, I go on a vision quest, and first thing is that slap in the face.

Just to clarify, she says to me only what I put in the title. That's all the information she says I get, and I respect her sources. Then, someone is like, "did you run it through a translator?" and it just felt like someone hit me, and I'm someone who was big on conflict resolution, and doesn't get pulled into the conflict, seeing all these issues only they can solve. Whatever elements people prefer in their lives that's their preference to whatever is elemental in their experience and we celebrate because that's massive and determined action.

Yeah, my romantic partner watches Naruto a lot and is obsessed with Sasuke and if he was a girl. I'm Sakura and we are both Ansel Adams, but if he was a girl.

LOL. Yeah, some marketing techniques are loonie tunes, and all the cartoons in Roger Rabbit are on the loose, and the rewards are so unbalanced. Really, though, I love developers when we are smart and just tell each other what we have in our own source materials, and thank you so much for the lack of bad news, where we aren't competing over our sources. I'm always happy if we can give our validation processes a good stretch. So where are we incommunicado or sympatico? Are we both at the same time? Let's sip on some paper. We aren't slippin'. I don't see us in the ballpark of need, in the order of solutions. The greatest place of need, and the place of needs themselves. Maybe we can place heaven on earth somewhere. A place where we need to find a higher order of magnitude in solving problems altogether isn't outdated, but let's be forced to solve problems the old way. We can stick with methods in solving problems that seem very outdated to me because I can see this process becoming dated. I think it is the universe that planned the obsolescence of our current system.

I also think that marketing technique might mean something along the lines of something like a vision pointer, points someone to success, and dereferences their vision, and it can be changed dynamically during runtime, which is a great way to persuade anybody.

@chance That's beyond sick. Siiiiiiiick. That was just so inspiring what you said. My sources are driving me to make a decision. There are all types of free tones. Wow. Look at all those basic compositional elements and then you turn those into the right compounds to produce that overall structure!!!! Deep sigh of relief. Yay for expressions.

Okay, though, I'm decided, and whatever this concept of my girlfriends is, that's driving us to interpret what we need from our sources, requires me to go back into mine, and do someone source work, and expound my own source. So, all that design you did, that's design, for sure. It's definitely relevant, and yeah, I resonate strongly with that. But, it's like, if you had the Sharingan eye, but then made it a fun experience. I think it is like, what can be done with the Sharingan Eye, that is what sticks out of my source materials.

All anyone did with the Sharingan Eye, was take a deprived person who has also made a war sacrifice, and manipulate them, though, in the way they prefer, as they sink into an illusion, but this is like, considering all of the following. Just a list right now.

Deprivation
good/bad energy
anything spiritual
illicit steps
grinding apart
falling out as resources can't be managed
incommunicado
sympatico
lost source materials
everyones's spirit fights for their soul (think Bleech at this point)

She has been pretty upset about this business in town that says Actual Sourcework in big letters. Grumpy, and moody, and a little unstable occasionally, and can't stand if I don't cry with tears of joy. I'm a method actor, and I fake cry because why be in a relationship that you don't have the ability to manipulate someone's emotions and tease them, because I actually do cries from tears of joy and so much laughter, especially when she starts exclaiming that people have to cry all wrong, telling me she is leaving if all my friends don't have reliable sources. I just laugh. All of you are awesome friends, and there are people in my life and on any message board who put me in "the friend zone". Poor little boys, treated by so many girls that set up a preliminary dating period. Connect the dots between those two stylized forms and cross every level of any need off for conflict resolution and enjoy all the embarrassment when other people have that many issues and their code is unreadable. LOL. Seen what happens when people are deprived of that...

Okay, time for the old GOTO statement, but with our source materials. I'm so waiting right here for anyone who doesn't want to deprive us of making sense of old or new concepts. I don't know what this one is old or new, and how personal it is, if it is purely subjective.

"A concept is instantiated (reified) by all of its actual or potential instances(represented by a concrete instinct), whether these are things in the real world or other ideas, components of situations, past performances, and multi-objective optimization and its properties."

I'm trying to expound and do some sourcework over here, and this may start to turn out, to be something that could possibly be researched. Calling all moments that turn into events. The moments that shifted turned when they weren't events and the scheduling didn't place everyone in the write timing in that use-case. I repeat. Our sources are driving all of us to make a decision with the inventory of all of your sources. Maybe move some of your stacks this way, and draw a line downstream through this pipe over here? C'mon just float it over, please. I love this conversation. Please don't deprive me of it.
 

Rayek

Member
I'm in the same boat. The thing I find annoying is that there are people who have "bad" art but it looks good anyway because of the coherent design and because of the radical uniqueness of their style. It's like outsider art in a way. I wish that, if I'm going to stay as a bad artist, at least I could have that superpower.
Definitely! It reminds me of user interface design: if the user is unaware of your GUI it means you have done a proper job. But the same can be said about graphics and game art as well: if all art combines into a coherent design which doesn't get in the way of playing the game and/or enhances the user's game play experience of the game, and the player accepts the art and look and feel of it without (too many) questions or comments, you've hit the mark.

And this depends on the user(s) themselves as well. Some players avoid pixel art games, because they dislike that style, for example. Older 3d games may be rejected by players due to the 'primitive' texturing, lighting, and low poly assets.

We have now arrived at a point in video game history where retro-themed graphics have become quite acceptable to almost all players as long as enough 'juice' is poured into those graphics, and the design choices are strong and coherent to create a memorable experience and help the game play.

Simple example: I am currently enjoying the Halo Masterchief remastered versions quite a lot. But the original Halo still looks rather out-dated, and that look spoiled my game play experience somewhat, because I had just finished Halo:Outreach. While Outreach does have its fair share of low resolution textures, the presentation, overall game play experience, and 'juice' made me overlook those. Basically, the graphics are good enough to not get in the way of my personal game experience.

Not so with Halo 1 - it is pretty obvious while playing this was the first Halo and it just doesn't quite stand the test of time.

I am also playing Super BIT Blaster XL quite a lot between work sessions. The graphics are incredibly simple, and the style reminds me of those first 8bit arcade games. Very symbolic in their nature - but they work, and the extra juice injected into otherwise bland graphics (such as particle effects, large explosions, screen shaking, good effective sound effects, etcetera) all help in delivering a game experience where the graphics actually become helpful during game play.

I believe this is an important aspect that is rather often overlooked by game designers: the graphics should assist the game experience and vice versa. That creates an overall coherent game design and look and feel.

Many game designers conceive of game concepts and later decide about graphics and game (brand) identity - even re-using standard free or commercially available art collections (without any major changes) - which makes it much harder to find that 'coherent feel' - this has less to do with the fact that pre-fab assets are used, but more that pre-fab assets inherently almost always lack the feedback from the game concept to create that 2-way communication that is so important. It is often quite difficult for custom game art designers to deliver on this part, let alone for pre-fab generic art.

Another good example of this is SanctuaryRPG, I think. An RPG with ASCII art only, it kept my attention for weeks: it was a lot of fun to play, and I don't think it would have been as successful as an experience with any other art BUT ASCII based art. The graphics become part of the game's identity - similar to many classic rogue likes. The game embraces its visual style, and runs with it.

Another good example is the original Doom: it still works. Or classics such as Monkey Island. Or Asteroids (vectors), or Space Invaders, PAC-MAN, and so on. Revamped updates like PAC-MAN Championship Ediction DX+ don't really modernize the core graphics, because they are an integral part of the identity of said game(s). Instead, those modern versions embrace that identity, inject a whole lot of juice to take advantage of modern video chips, and keep the core game play intact, while expanding it as well into what is nowadays possible on social gaming platforms.

This, then, I feel is (part of) the answer: as long as the graphics attribute to the identity of your game and the game experience supports that identity (and the graphics), things will feel coherent and "correct" - nor will they hinder the user's play experience (at the very least) and at best deliver a unique experience in some way.
 
She told me to go on a vision quest, and don't get too tied up in her sources if I didn't have my own. Then she makes this "L" sign on her forehead. Holding up the "L", she tells me I'm going on a vision quest, and to come back if I can be useful because I have reliable sources.
"She was looking kinda dumb with her fiiiinger and her thumb..."

All jokes aside, in this context, a vision quest generally means to go and find yourself. In a lot of cultures, it's a part of the transition into adulthood. Where I live, in Australia, it's called by some of the local aboriginal tribes "going walkabout". A young man would have to leave the tribe and survive in the bush on their own for a period of time (there's like a million different aboriginal groups in Australia, so this definitely doesn't apply to all of them, just some). They often talk about going walkabout in very spiritual terms, often bordering on psychadelic (and there may be some local psychadelics involved, in some cases) and part of the experience is gaining insight into yourself and coming to a new understanding of your place in the world. It also displays self sufficiency to the rest of the tribe, which means you have finished your "training" period, so to speak and are ready to graduate to a full member of the tribe.

If my girlfriend were telling me to do this, I would seriously consider what behaviour I'm engaging in that is making her feel like I should do that. Doing it as an adult generally signifies that you have "lost your way".
 

EvanSki

Raccoon Jam Host
Im confused on if this is a troll or an actual request for help on a spirit journey of game dev?


Its almost like Nuts goner 2.0
 

tetris_mess

Member
@EvanSki - I'm both logical and reasonable in how I approach to contact with others, sir. I'm not there to pat you on your head and ask you for any information that you could definitely make available. Sorry but there isn't time for me to be a keynote speaker to give you a full presentation about how never crying anything but tears of joy is beautiful. My spirits fighting for me. I feel myself by my side. I feel myself with me. I came looking for myself. It's not the other way around and expressed by different sequences and algebras and patterns and geometries. Like, the standard form of a graph and the functions. It's a freaking rocket past intimidation. Personally, there is a stupid game that gets crossed with intentions and it conflicts with prayer. Prayer becomes ineffective at these points of contact. Prayer becomes a part of a healing process that develops the costs of prayer, and how the human body reacts to it. I'm agnostic, but I see the benefit.

@RefresherTowel - I'm always telling her to chill, and she does. She told me she heard that one and felt relaxed to send me away to do something. I get exposed to less risk than I did in the last relationship that ended with me crying tears of joy after the relationship was over, because I knew all that was substantial to growth in communication was the elements of growth in that process at that adult stage of our development, that was a normal development, because of how we had to grow up. She completely relaxed, and she is a god damn genius. She knows my sister would journey me away like that, and my girlfriend wants to do some serious trust falls, just like my last relationship. It worked out this time. I actually connect with the content that Chance posted on an extreme level. Like. I'm starting to totally get some of the things that are going on, and there are some understanding of different algebras that are necessary, and different pattern geometrically. I documented a lot more than I was comfortable posting about our relationship, which is amazing still because of the people who are supporting my family because she saw the continued development in my practice while she helps me craft my skills. She becomes better at teaching, and I'm able to support us both more. She is the one that put the mathematician hat on me. She expects me to learn because she wants another professional in her life who can keep up with her. She is an emergence coordinator and she studies industrial organization. She doesn't want to be one person's rescue. I had to go get rescued by others this time. Also, if no one got that, we are both Ansel Adams if he was a girl.

So like, I don't know, there is an initial point of contact, and then the contact that we have after that point initially? Could you all leave your opinions aside maybe, because I'm actually trying to continue work here, and if there is anything you can do to help with this little protection, I'm in the process of building solutions I need and thank you for reading my posts? You're also helping either way, by allowing me these observations, but it's becoming repetitive, because people who sign contracts no I finish my job quickly, and how much I can't stand the sunlight and the human errors of human operators. Can we please stay on topic? Like, if you only have anything that's going to add restriction to this process, it's repetitive and doesn't buy anyone anytime.

I'm definitely not that person you have a chance to take out when you know there is a stronger competitor. I increase the likelihood of success in clearing my operations, so I'm not having to send emails to my clients that don't give me an opportunity to have anything but the decreased likelihood of success to report to them. There is never any reason it would be my fault, and that's why they are willing to hire me on, or sign private contracts, and then I hire people. There are people who even work for me for free, and promote my operations because they are interested in how I channel my spiritual leadership.

So, there is the journey. We go so deep in that it's not possible not to be able to pull ourselves out of it, and I have a real buddy system. I also see what happens for not "knowing an ability".

@Rayek I'm intrigued by this marketing concept, and the economy of my art, as if I'm creating a world, where there is a simulation of the markets, and the whole economy that supports the realistic natures of designs that are crafted with a purpose, that represents the culture, and holds all the elements of the artwork and the story together.

To end at this point of contact, really, I'm expressing a need to not deprive me of sympathizing with my needs here. So that's where we are ending at this point of contact right now...I suppose...

Um...
 

tetris_mess

Member
This, then, I feel is (part of) the answer: as long as the graphics attribute to the identity of your game and the game experience supports that identity (and the graphics), things will feel coherent and "correct" - nor will they hinder the user's play experience (at the very least) and at best deliver a unique experience in some way.
I don't agree. Reputation, and brand, and identity. Well, yeah...but I have men harass me constantly about intentions and people's emotional states, and something feeling coherent and correct, and I'm a woman, and it needs to stop. Apparently, men like it, and want something to make them feel that way. Women don't do it like that. It is not our brand. When nothing is ever coherent and "correct", that is subjective and it goes "under the table", if you tell me it feels "correct". I'm just going to get what I need and "scram". Men have even tried to tell me I have intentions that people no

but the ego gets stuck between a rock and a hard place anyways. These big companies make names for themselves because they deliver an experience formulaically. I literally have no idea, with as much gameplay experience, anyone would call themselves a real gamer. That just isn't organic and it doesn't flow into a whole view of nature and how it fits into your experiences, and people know and feel a "connection" on an "emotional level", and it "feels good", and nothing ever has to meet someone's "personal standards".

FYI everyone. I cracked this case wide open. Did anyone even notice what was key in my previous text about instincts, and them being concrete? Well, perfect example here of how instincts can be way off, and then guys project a layer of their own experience onto another platform, that just becomes one more thing we all just need to have them buy for us, and we both need it, but really it's just selfish.

So what I did, was I took a triangle, and I've mapped out everything in communications and operations with information and energy, to target the exact locations where positive and negative reinforcement is being received somewhere, and why it is being received at all, when the collection of the energy that charges any operant condition, with enabling and disabling factors. Then, one hand, something is gross, and on the other, it's pleasing, and don't expect me to pull out the golden rule and measure it all out for you, because if you want me to, I've completed the solution, and now I have to complete the tables and map this giant new theory. It's enormous, and it was what I found with many people sharing me their interpretation of their own source material that I needed to inspires a vision of typeface, style, fashion, and design when love brings real imagery of a story and a concept of the art together in our mind. We can project it onto a display in our mind's eye, and we can display it to the world in any way we choose.

I mean. I'm an architect. Why wouldn't I lie, and tell people I had a keen eye for knowing where to make the little adjustments, that was important for me to appreciate so many different artistic movements, where I now see how to control how I stylize my work, based on my own vision of the future movement in the world of art, that I wish to be a part of, because I'm "identifying", with the "reputations", of people who will accept my vision as their own, and it isn't about anything seeming "correct", because it is about true experiences in our lives that match with the representation in how we interpret our experiences in the world emotionally.

I'm going to be able to quietly sit back, and watch how people operate. Observe other artists, and observe other people still learning about the world of art.
 
Top