Article Why do Gamemaker users settle for pixelated graphics?

Discussion in 'Game Design, Development And Publishing' started by fxokz, May 2, 2017.

  1. GMWolf

    GMWolf aka fel666

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    @blacklemon I can't remember who said this, but art is essentially copying and transformation. No art is truly creative.

    In fact, a lot of critically acclaimed or simply famous art where copies of existing things.
    Think the matrix was original for its time? Nope, just a rip off a comic.

    But that's OK. Its still a form of creative media. Being able to adapt existing content, or modify it to make it your own is what makes art great.
    If someone loves Kirby games and chooses to draw Kirby in new settings, or fighting a new foe, then great! Just because they didn't create the character does not mean they are not expressing themselves.
     
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  2. Niels

    Niels Member

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    It's the number one advice you get from any artist:
    "find out what you work of others you like, and immitate it"


    No art is truly original, it all follows rules...
     
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  3. zendraw

    zendraw Member

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    oh, your talkin pure economics here, and i cant disagree more, i dont support this trend of dumbing things down to a common sense simply so every1 can be a part of the specific group and not be discriminated. which is exactly what your doing here, dumbing down an act of materialisin a vision. (not a personal/psychological expression) and no, art has no rules, schools have becus they need to dumb things down so every1 can be a part of it without payng the price, and the price is devotion and life. and an artists work is in a way an external form of his life thats not physically bound to him. its not a mere technique, a technique is formed after one settles in his life. and the techniques they teach at schools are nothing but trained muscles and ways of achivment a desired goal. which mind you come from the people previously devoted theyr life to theyr love and art. now those life paths are called techniques and are stored in a catalogue where modern 'artists' pick one, distort it a bit to his liking and affection and calls it a day.

    tldr, dont dumb down things for self comfort and discard w/e treasures come with theyr actual life meanings. and im not sayng this from a personal caprice, but when you know the actual value of somthing its at the least annoyng.

    imagine an IT engineer losing his legs, now imagine an Alpinist or Athlete losing his legs, who do you think lost more? and please dont misunderstand, this is not santiment just becus it appears a subjective matter.
     
  4. GMWolf

    GMWolf aka fel666

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    I must be dumb because I don't see how this applies.

    And art does have rules. I think what you mean is conventions. There is a difference.
    But more importantly, none mentioned rules. But it sounds like you are saying fan art is still art.
     
  5. zendraw

    zendraw Member

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    if your an artist, you make art, thats all im sayn.
    can you explain about these rules and conventions and theyr difference you speak of?
     
  6. rIKmAN

    rIKmAN Member

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    Is this one of those trick questions, like "What weighs more - a ton of bricks or a ton of feathers?".

    They both lost 2 legs - and how do you know the IT guy didn't do triathlons in his spare time? ;)
    Silly comparison.
     
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  7. Yilly

    Yilly Guest

    This kind of turned into a pixel art vs hd graphics battle, so as an artist I feel inclined to jump in and clarify a few things. Pixel art is not any less artistic than high resolution art. In fact, the same principals of art apply to both almost exactly the same way, with some actually being even more difficult to execute in pixels. Let me explain. Any character or background art requires some sort of form, shape, or perspective. Without these things, BOTH the pixel and high resolution art will look cheap and ugly. Same with lighting and colors, no matter the amount of pixels you're using, the light has to wrap around the form believably, and the colors have to adhere to some sort of color theory to look pleasing. You see? Pixel art and high resolution are just two different mediums, but your art skills apply to both almost equally! I think the reason the GM community is more inclined to use pixel art is simple. The GM sprite editor is much more friendly towards pixel art.

    When making pixel art characters, I often sketch them out on paper or in photoshop first, to have a better understanding of their forms. It makes them much easier to shade later on!

    Sorry, but... I hate it when people say things like that. :p There's a big difference between copying the taking inspiration. Everyone is filled with life experiences big and small which affect the way we look at life and everything around us, including our imaginations of characters, stories, or settings. And when we don't directly try to remix other people's art, that's when original art is created, a true expression of ourselves in creative medium.
     
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  8. GMWolf

    GMWolf aka fel666

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    I agree.
    I think we may have slightly different semantics when it come to the word "copy" is all. I used it quite loosely in this context.
     
  9. Yilly

    Yilly Guest

    Ah, I suspected you could've been meaning the same thing, I guess it just bothers me when people use the word "copying" to describe it, as it has a different connotation for me.
     
  10. Nux

    Nux Member

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    I do pixel art because instead of focusing for ages on the details of a leg on a high resolution image, i can just draw a spaghetti.
     
  11. Blazing

    Blazing Guest

    I've done both HD vector art and pixel art. To get the same level of detail in the 64x64 dogs I'm drawing right now, vector would take me many hours while pixel would only take a few minutes. And forget animations if you want me to do those in quality HD vector. I'd probably have gray hair by the time those puppies get done between programming my game and working a full-time job.

    Now if only drawing those dogs was what kept food on my table and a roof over my head, I could do vector. But very few GM users are in that position in life.

    That being said, pixel art is hardly an exercise in laziness. Some incredible artwork can and has been produced at the nice effecient size of the 32px square.

    Edit:
    Here's some that I follow
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2017
  12. zendraw

    zendraw Member

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    from your question i suspect you got what i meant with my question and no its not a trick question. if you lose a part which has meaning to you and dont simply use it for its function, you lose a part of your life, thus there are people that commit suicide becouse of such loss. this example is only to express a point that individual experience/enlightement>dry information/definition/common sense. a person who hasnt used his legs for somthing else then going from A to B wont understand the situation of an alpinist or atlhete.
    and a person who has never drawn his vision, but only fanart, wont understand some1 who tryes to do that.
     
  13. GMWolf

    GMWolf aka fel666

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    I think your problem is not realizing that just because you draw fan-art, doesnt mean you dont have a vision.
    Not every piece you do needs to be an completely original epic. And getting inspired by some other's wrk does not mean you do not have a vision.
     
  14. zendraw

    zendraw Member

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    i never said that that means you dont have a vision, i am sayng and its a fact that your wasting your time by not exercising and using your potential and growing as what you can become through that. and you wont become that by just flexin your muscles and becoming better at somthing.
     
  15. Blazing

    Blazing Guest

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  16. Neutron Dust

    Neutron Dust Guest

    Some of the best rendered Art out there is fan art. Just look at deviant art. The only reason games art needs to have a certain threshold of originality is for copyright reasons. And as far as stylistic copying, look to history. Every Age has a certain feel to it's artwork going back to the beginning of art. You would almost literally need to remove yourself from all social context in order to be able to come up with an "original idea". And after all that, being someone who just created art with truly no social context, you would more than likely find that the social context is what attracts people to most art in the first place. I used to paint and show at galleries, and it was always funny to stand behind a group and hear how wrong they were when they tried to figure out what I intended. It was even funnier if they liked it. Plus I doubt many of us are pros. The act of creation is important enough in itself to make most concerns about originality irrelevant in my opinion.
     
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  17. GMWolf

    GMWolf aka fel666

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    I'm more of an absurdist so i don't really agree with you here.
     
  18. zendraw

    zendraw Member

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    i dont think theres such a thing as pure/raw creativity,
    creativity is a concious act in flow with nature or the moment or w/e. for me.
    theres an old aristotelian quote that i dont remember correctly but i remember i read it in a book of the soul or spirit or somthing.
    'For the unaware and ignorant there is randomness, for the aware and vigilant there is art.'
     
  19. GMWolf

    GMWolf aka fel666

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    [​IMG]
     
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  20. zendraw

    zendraw Member

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    the point is, when you act in awareness, your act has an artistic value, and when you act in unawareness your act can at the most have a functionative value. what are you trying to say with that noise?
     
  21. Samuel Venable

    Samuel Venable Time Killer

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    If randomness and art can't ever fall under the same category, then why is there pure abstract and non-objective art? Whoever said that quote must have never taken an art class in middle/high school, or they must be too old to remember what they learned.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2017
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  22. Ethanicus

    Ethanicus Ethan L!

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  23. GMWolf

    GMWolf aka fel666

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    these are not random though.
     
  24. zendraw

    zendraw Member

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    jesus christ, just becus somthing appears random doesnt mean it is random. even the noise fal posted is not random, you need great understanding to even have a feeling on how this or that is made. further more if there really was such a thing as randomness, science wont be a thing atall. art is not cheap and you wont become an artis by simply going to school, or anything for that matter. school is at the most an introduction to a certain aspect of life. you need work to actually become somthing.
     
  25. Nocturne

    Nocturne Friendly Tyrant Forum Staff Admin

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    I would say that the idea that all GameMaker games are pixel art is just plain wrong. Now, are most of the games published HERE using pixel art? Well, probably, but the VAST majority of games made and published using GameMaker never get posted on the GMC. And believe it or not, a fair percentage don't use pixel art either:

    https://www.yoyogames.com/showcase/4/orbit
    [​IMG]
    https://www.yoyogames.com/showcase/14/blackhole
    [​IMG]
    https://www.yoyogames.com/showcase/2/defenders-of-ekron
    [​IMG]
    https://www.yoyogames.com/showcase/135/psebay
    [​IMG]
    https://www.yoyogames.com/showcase/141/dragon-rage
    [​IMG]
    https://www.yoyogames.com/showcase/114/solstice
    [​IMG]
    https://www.yoyogames.com/showcase/26/cook-serve-delicious
    [​IMG]
    https://www.yoyogames.com/showcase/132/demetrios
    [​IMG]
    https://www.yoyogames.com/showcase/98/tiamat-x
    [​IMG]
    https://www.yoyogames.com/showcase/1/12-is-better-than-6
    [​IMG]

    I could go on-and-on-and-on linking games that don't use pixel art, but I think you all get the idea. The thing is, that people that make and publish games will use whichever style best suits their budget, ability and esthetic choice for the game. WHO CARES WHETHER IT'S HIGH RES OR PIXEL ART AS ALONG AS THE DAMNED GAME IS GOOD??????

    I mean, if you are going to let the esthetic choice for the game colour your judgement of it then fine, but don't try to convince others that your esthetic preference is the one true way to do game art... I would also say that GOOD pixel is incredibly difficult to do without a lot of learning and practise (like anything really!). True pixel artists work with a limited palette and are capable of making masterpieces within an incredibly restricted medium, not to mention the fact they need an absolute understanding of colour theory (possibly far more than any "regular" artist does" as they need to be able to create new colours from dithering etc...). Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying pixel art is better than any other art, I'm simply saying it's on the same level as all other art, in that to make GOOD pixel art you need to work hard and practice and learn for years.
     
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  26. Neutron Dust

    Neutron Dust Guest

    Also, caring about what people think adds a lot to the "sameyness" of artwork, and when you are making a product, like a game, you care what people think. Poets are a good example of pure artist. A good amount of them, when they died they find their house stuffed with unreleased poems. If you really made original artwork for a game in my opinion it would render a good third of what people care about in most games (Art, Story, and Gameplay) inaccessable to most people. Not good for something you plan on selling. The other two parts better be rock solid or it was a bad decision. Also most famous Artist, at least famous in their times, cater Heavily to popular culture. I personally don't care much about being a legend. I'll be too dead to enjoy it.
     
  27. Samuel Venable

    Samuel Venable Time Killer

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    I'm aware it's not truly random, usually when people say random, that's not what they mean, as nothing is "truly random". Everything happens for its own reason, scientifically.

    And yes, I'm aware school only covers the basics. However, college does go a little deeper into it. Not everyone goes to college to be an artist. School also can't fix a person who simply just doesn't have the ability or desire to grow. I think you missed the point of my post.

    Edit: sorry for being off topic, I didn't think about that until just now.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2017
  28. rIKmAN

    rIKmAN Member

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    So am I the only person who stared at this for a few minutes trying to see the magic eye image?
     
  29. sitebender

    sitebender Member

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    I guess while I'm here... Since one of the admins posted HD art within GameMaker games here's HD store bought art within a GameMaker game I made. All the trees are randomly placed and built... because I'm not going to place and shift that many trees in big levels.

    [​IMG]

    Also for those who love random static I created this static generator. Sorry for the potato quality but it is 786,432 colors being randomly generated each frame for 60 fps. My PC can't even maintain 60 FPS using this method.

    [​IMG]

    When it plays on my system I can almost see yellow lines in certain spots. Here in the .gif I can't.

    If you spot an image... keep it to yourself. There are 4 in here. Since they are randomly placed, I can only find 2, but there are 4:

    [​IMG]
    It almost looks as if the yellow forms a grid.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2017
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  30. BaBiA Game Studio

    BaBiA Game Studio Member

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    No, you're not the only one. I squinted and stared at it for a while before just giving up.
     
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  31. rIKmAN

    rIKmAN Member

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    Haha, I Googled a proper Magic Eye image afterwards as I thought I'd lost my ability to see them in my old age.

    Don't worry though, my superpower still works! ;)
     
  32. fxokz

    fxokz Member

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    wow.
     
  33. Seabass (The Human)

    Seabass (The Human) Member

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    Neither of my games rely on pixel art. <_<
     
  34. xorphinindi

    xorphinindi Member

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    There's a spectrum of quality of pixel art for sure.
    It's got a style to it that just feels endearing to me, and some of it is downright gorgeous.
    I use it because it's easy though.
    I wish I was better at art, just have to keep at it.
     
  35. Ethanicus

    Ethanicus Ethan L!

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    *more angry replies*
     
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  36. RichHopefulComposer

    RichHopefulComposer Member

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    It can actually be taken a few ways. Could even be a compliment to pixel art! =D
    For what it's worth, my game is relying heavily on its pixel art for its popularity right now. It's working well enough so far, heheh. When it comes out, it'll rely on everything else pretty much equally, though. =)
     
  37. sercan

    sercan Member

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    your message caused a paradox for me. what if one of the misinformations is yours? :/

    kidding:)
     
  38. Yal

    Yal GMC Memer GMC Elder

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    TBH that pretty much sums up how you should view any and all information found online without a named, credible, falsifiable source (i.e. a vast majority)...
     
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  39. Rin-Rin

    Rin-Rin Guest

    I'm sorry, but that statement is stupid. I've been drawing for almost 30 years. I'm decent at drawing, some say that I'm good. But I can't do pixelART. Because I've never tried it.

    Shots in the dark? Skill is not shots in the dark. Skill is having the experience and insight to know what end results you will come up with when you do a certain thing. Like, an experienced photographer and a newbie photographer see the same scene and they only have one each old school camera with them. The experienced photographer will shoot a couple of photos and s/he knows that they have a good photo in there. The novice will snap up the entire roll of photos in hopes of getting one that actually ends up looking decent. They get home and develop the photos. Who do you think will end up with the good photo? It's the same thing with drawing. If you know what you're doing, you know what you're doing and there's less time spent meandering trying to do something that looks good. That's the only reason a good artist finish drawings faster. They still have to put work and effort into their drawing. It's still hard work. It's just less hard work because they know what they're doing.

    Also, don't diss fanart. I've seen fanart that is even more imaginative than the original concept. ...and some people have to start somewhere. Many artists start out as fan artists. ...I shudder at the memory of the Cobra fanart I did when I was little. At least I've gotten better, but had I not been inspired by cartoons and comic books and drawn fanart (and written fanfics) when I was little I wouldn't be where I am today.


    I think a lot of people have said it. ...in their own way. Since nobody is really original. XD
    It's a subject discussed a lot in artistic communities...

    My favorite quote on that topic is; “Possibility, or what we refer to as imagination, is 99% imitation. The real deal is only 1%. The problem is, this 1% is simultaneously referred to as Evil.” ― Kouhei Kadono, "Boogiepop Returns vs. Imaginator"
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2017
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  40. zendraw

    zendraw Member

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    rin-rin, if youve been drawin for almost 30 years, and your decent at drawin, then shush.
    and yal, what information are you talking about? this is not a spy game, you can go out at any time and see the color of things, theyr shapes, and then draw them and come to realisations through that practice, not some silly rules and nonsense about how colours and shapes affect you. this has aways being funny for me how people boast about how much they know, yet all theyr knowledge you can read on wiki.
     
  41. lolslayer

    lolslayer Member

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    Does OP actually give this thread only one single look after that he created it?
     
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  42. inkBot

    inkBot Member

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    I just want to jump in and nip this in the bud (bit late for that, but whatever). Pixel art is not a style. It's a medium.

    There is a massive difference between being able to read about how art and color theory works, and actually understanding it.

    I have always advocated for people who want to learn form, shape and color theory, to practice some pixel art. Due to the nature of the medium, the need for understanding of these areas become accentuated.
     
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  43. zendraw

    zendraw Member

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    im not sure what you mean, but i support experience in art and the real knowledge that comes out of that experience, thus if you want to know how to draw this and that, you go there in a real situation, not steril, and you connect with the subject/object and then materialise what yove seen. i dont support this academic approach of learnin theory and dry skill and simply applyin it. a robot can do that.
     
  44. McWolke

    McWolke Guest

    I just wanted to post this here so people know that there is actually awesome and "HD"(?) pixelart out there in games, animated! Pixelart is not just 32x32 Sprites from SNES Era..
    Anyone who knows Ragnarok Online knows how awesome their pixelart is. they got animations for idle, walk, attack, death and all of them for 4 directions. so don't just assume pixel art is "cheap", "fast" and "easy".
     

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  45. Blazing

    Blazing Guest

    Have you even taken any academic, college-level art classes?
     
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  46. inkBot

    inkBot Member

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    So what you're telling me, in a very nonsensical way, is that people are only allowed to learn to draw things they have actually seen? Well, I guess we have to stop drawing robots, dragons and super heroes, then.

    A robot can do the former as well. It's called a camera.

    If you want to learn something in a specific way, then do that, but this whole "I don't support this and that" nonsense is frankly ridiculous. You're misunderstanding the entire concept of studying art. Key word being "study".
     
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  47. Yal

    Yal GMC Memer GMC Elder

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    I'm talking about stuff in general. If I told you Jean-Marie Le Pen had died, for instance, there's no way you can tell if it's true or not without looking it up elsewhere. But you're too lazy to, so you'll just believe it (if you even care about them well enough to know who it is).
     
  48. zendraw

    zendraw Member

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    you are allowed to do w/e you want, no1 can tell you what to do, but dont dream that when you draw somthing you havent seen previously that it has some artistic value. and by seen i dont mean, recive information throu your eyes, i mean you have knowledge/vision of that thing`s being/functionality, for instance the guy that made star wars hasnt ever held a light saber or laser gun in his hands, i guess, but he has an understanding of it that allows him to create the star wars univers. also a quote im reminded of of that ghibli guy that sayd that modern anime suffers from otakus becouse they have no real interaction with human beings.

    in short, art has its own price, and study is not it and no i have no degree in arts, i have my experience.
     
  49. inkBot

    inkBot Member

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    Do you apply the same logic to every field? Will you actively avoid going to a doctor if you know he went to medical school?
     
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  50. Blazing

    Blazing Guest

    Many of the things you are accusing art education of not doing are completely false. In my Drawing 2 class, we literally spent a whole quarter just drawing things in the school gardens.

    If you don't know how proper art education happens, I'd advise not arguing against something you've never experienced.
     
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