Feedback Why can't we roll back GMS2 versions? Why force updates?

Discussion in 'GameMaker Studio 2 Community Tech Support' started by RichHopefulComposer, Jun 20, 2018.

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  1. RichHopefulComposer

    RichHopefulComposer Member

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    Basically, what the title says. It hasn't caused me any grief yet, because my main project is still in GMS1. Still, I just saw another member talking about this, saying that the newest version of GMS2 has a bug that's breaking his game and wasting his time.

    This seems a little... less than ideal to me? We all know GM is a huge project, and that there are bound to be bugs in the newest updates once in awhile, no matter how careful YYG is. I personally always lag behind an update or two in GMS1 just for that reason. What's the rationale for not letting users skip updates or roll back in GMS2? For most users, being down for a week might not be a big deal, but I could see this being a huge problem for professional developers working with time restraints.

    Can anyone shed any light on this?
    Thanks, YYG staff!

    Edit: Seems you usually can roll back, actually? Thanks cpaz and FrostyCat! Looks like a few things collided recently to stop a rollback or two, though? Still a little worrying, but not as much as I thought.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2018
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  2. Cpaz

    Cpaz Member

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    This is a good question. Though, from my understanding, I they're treating the IDE and runtime as separate entities. The runtime being the only thing you can roll back.I have had to do this due to complications a bug that appeared upon updating. It's a pretty clean system.
     
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  3. FrostyCat

    FrostyCat Member

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    Within reasonable limits, GMS 2 IDEs and runtimes can generally be rolled back, except for those that immediately come after YoYo moving the registration server. The 2.1.4 update happened to be one of them, and I think that's where the recent confusion about forced updates comes from.
     
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  4. JeffJ

    JeffJ Member

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    My situation:

    One of the recent updates for GMS2 has broken my collisions. It has been confirmed by YYG that it is indeed caused by the runtime update, not my code. Before this I was trying to rule out whether or not it was YYG or my code at fault by rolling back. I tried four different runtimes and each and every one of them failed to build. The reason? Well, because each and every one of them is incompatible with the current IDE version - which is mandatory.

    Ultimately this means that YYG has admittedly broken my collisions, but I cannot do anything about it, because the runtimes I could rollback to that doesn't have this issue are no longer an option due to mandatory incompatible update. To make matters worse, I have an important showcase in about a month, and a very, very tight deadline. This is disastrous for our schedule and business, and worst of all, it's not due to our incompetence.

    It's one thing that YYG sends out a runtime that breaks stuff - sh!t happens. It's something different entirely when they no longer provide the basic ability to do a rollback saving the end user from their mistakes. Then it goes from annoying to unacceptable.

    And here's the final straw for me:
    This is ultimately down to very, very bad decisions by YYG that they were warned about not doing by their community years ago.

    I and multiple other users warned them: DO NOT make forced analytics, neither in the IDE or the final build. It will cause problems down the line.

    I and multiple other users warned them: DO NOT make forced updates. It will cause problems down the line.

    Reason for for forced update that also breaks collisions and don't allow rollback?
    Complying with GDPR.
    Why is that necessary?
    Because of analytics that you cannot opt out of. You know, as urged by the community years ago.

    This means that this is down to bad and harmful decisions made by YYG that ultimately only screws their users. Had they listened and made analytics opt-in, they wouldn't have had to force that update, and I wouldn't have been in this situation. What really gets me is that they were warned, but they refused to listen. This is not the first time that arrogant decisions by YYG has ended up harming their users, and it seems to be a pattern that ultimately makes me genuinely worried for the future - current problems not even withstanding.
     
  5. Fiskyfisko

    Fiskyfisko Member

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    YYG should never ever ever force updates, especially when it's a broken update
     
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  6. gnysek

    gnysek Member

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    From my experience, all forced updates came when they change something in licencing/login system on their side, so it's no more possible to login using old IDE, as it gets responses from server which cannot understand.
     
  7. appymedia

    appymedia Member

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    I hadn't realised this, re the analytics. If thats why we had the GDPR update forced I'm not impressed! Especially as folks have pointed out the update came with breaking changes.

    I've got a post about patch releases which is in a similar vein to this one, incoming mini rant! As a paying customer YoYo (desktop, UWP, mobile and HTML5 v1.4 & v2) personally I'd prefer a more solid working product then a Nintendo Switch export which I'm guessing a lot of current time is being spent. I have no proof but common sense would tell me this is the case. What worries me more is more platforms will equate to time being spread even more thinly unless YoYo have more staff / resources, not sure I made the best call with my purchase taking a few steps back sadly.

    Awesome workflow keeps me coming back, the growing number of warts I encounter push me away sadly. To the point I use another engine for HTML5 now. Hoping things can change.
     
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  8. MarceloP

    MarceloP Member

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    Your whole point is right. I mean, I know they're working on a Nintendo Switch export; but many of these bugs are UI and Runtime related, which will only bring around more and more bugs with a new export. Yoyo also doesn't respond to many many tickets and overlooks many complains. All this together not only make the development with GM completely frustrating, as it doesn't let it become a major professional development kit.

    I do believe that every single project already created on GM2 has already faced some UI / Runtime serious Bug that couldn't be fixed/focused by Yoyo. And, therefore, it probably burned a lot of time or even a lot of development progress at very least. Thinking this way, priorities should be rethought by Yoyo, from my perspective. That's not the normal way of many, many engines, and I've worked with quite a few to know that bugs do exist, but no talk, no progress and restrictions only disable the programmer. Also, poor documentation and no deep explanation of things (as some of GM documentation), also leaves programmers in the grey area of coding pain.

    I've 2 tickets that I've opened more than 2 months ago, and I still have no return from Yoyo, not even to tell me they will(not) do something about them. I've posted recently about a bug and it was already solved on mantis since January (but wasn't ever deployed in recent runtimes).

    Unfortunately, as soon as my company is able to leave GM, we'll probably do the same as you @appymedia.
     
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  9. gnysek

    gnysek Member

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    Generally, as if something exists on community board only, is treated as "not reported to YYG". General rule is that they only takes into account requests put on helpdesk. This have one downside - you cannot discuss with other users there, or vote, so even if 100 users have some request, every is treated as alone wish.

    I already have about 4-5 request on which YYG developers said "that's a nice idea, I'd like to add it!" and two years will pass soon. There's about 589 suggestions already on list (https://bugs.yoyogames.com/view_all_bug_page.php - then click "All projects" on top right and change to "Game Maker suggestions", then choose "[Reset filter]" from dropdown ob bottom of Filters table). There's no way they gonna add/change everything as we request, there's not enough time, so it may seem like they overlooks and ignore lot of things, but it's just too much of it to change.
     
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  10. MarceloP

    MarceloP Member

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    I see what you mean, but I meant real bugs. I did one suggestion but didn't actually posted it to their helpdesk since it was simply a suggestion to make things less complicated (it was not something that was broken).
    When I talk about overlooking something I mean some eternal and unfixed bugs or things that would never make sense in a working system. One of my two already submitted bugs is related to rotation and sprite bug. I mean, I have no answer, no confirmation, no fix and it was never added to mantis... This for me is simply overlooking a bug, that they may know it is a bug, but simply don't care. Or whoever is at the helpdesk was told not to care/accept it. Pictures, samples all posted with the bug, it is impossible to not notice the bug or ignore it.

    Usually what happens is that the community finds and works on workarounds to make it work, and the topic is never touched again (not so soon in some cases). Sometimes it seems like we've received a big "solve it yourself" stamp on our forehead, for something that shouldn't be a bug from the start. I mean, that's my current interpretation of some of the things I've experienced with the engine. And even worse, the no response also means (for me, in a way) a giant "if you don't like it, don't use it" or "why are you using it if you just flame on it". But I do like GM and the engine altogether, my problem is with the means that communication and troubleshooting is done. Again, I'd love to see this problems solved and also a care for the developers, that's what would bring the power to this awesome engine.
     
  11. gnysek

    gnysek Member

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    They have so many tickets, they sometimes miss one. Sometimes, because from title they know, it's already reported bug, and they forget to answer you. Hover on "last activity" field and check if hour and date is same as "created". If not, and you didn't added any comments, that means, somebody was reading it, and maybe changed some "internal" status, which we don't see.
     
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  12. Jafman

    Jafman Member

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    Seems like there is a pileup of bugs that just grows like a bubble. I use 1.4 and won't goto 2 until bugs are out. I paid for game maker 5.0, 8.1, and studio 1.4.

    I paid for Fruity Loops back in 2002(?), now FL Studio 20. Not one hiccup that broke my projects and they don't go for my wallet every few years. Why can't GMS be more like dis?

    Everything in its right place.
     
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  13. chmod777

    chmod777 Member

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    I'm doing better, with 5 tickets / bug reports (some are trivial) with no answer. :D
     
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  14. Brendan Wiuff

    Brendan Wiuff Member

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    It's infuriating. I was forced to commit to the latest update today. Sure enough (JUST LIKE IN APRIL) the update broke all my collisions, AGAIN. And yes as you stated, I CAN'T USE OLD RUNTIMES ANYMORE. This sort of puts it on hold. I have to submit bug tickets until they allow users to rollback (like they did in April) once more. I hope this is fixed soon...
     
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  15. JeffJ

    JeffJ Member

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    Hmm, has there been another forced update? I just started up GMS2 to check, but didn't get anything (IDE 2.1.4.295, Runtime 2.1.4.218).

    Not defending anyone here, but they do seem to take it serious when they say they really don't want to do forced updates, so I would be absolutely bewildered if they just pushed another forced update. Or maybe you've just got around to that old forced update now?

    In any case, make sure you make the proper reports and let your dissatisfaction be known. Short of jumping ship, of course.
     
  16. Menik

    Menik Member

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    Do people still have this issue? Has anything been released to address this?
     
  17. JeffJ

    JeffJ Member

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    The only way to "address" this would be to never do a single forced update again. And knowing YYG, that isn't going to happen.

    To my knowledge there has not been any additional forced updates since the one discussed in this thread, but then that's only a few months ago, so that's not really saying a lot.

    But if you're asking whether the policy on forced updates has changed? Then no. You could potentially get one tomorrow or next month. No one knows.
     
  18. Menik

    Menik Member

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    Forgive me, I know the forced updates probably haven't changed. I should have quoted/been more specific.

    The collision bug that had occurred some time ago for GM Studio 2. I currently am stuck in this position myself. YYG rolled out an update nearing the end of Sept, but it contained no resolve for the issue for me personally.

    Does anyone else still experience this bug? Please let me know.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2018
  19. JeffJ

    JeffJ Member

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    Oh I see. Well, my collision bug was fixed shortly after the post I made, so it's been fixed for months. And I know that a lot of other people's collision bugs has been fixed for quite a while as well. If you are still experiencing any collision bugs, it's very important that you file them, otherwise they won't get fixed. Make sure to attach a small separate demo project illustrating the issue when you do.
     
  20. EvanSki

    EvanSki King of Raccoons

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    I still have a problem with GMS 1 updating then closing itself but never updating and reopening its just stuck on downloading the update and closing
     
  21. Menik

    Menik Member

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    Thanks for the response. I'll try that.
     
  22. Nocturne

    Nocturne Friendly Tyrant Forum Staff Admin

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    OK, so, the policy on forced updates is that YYG don't want to do it and will do everything they can to avoid it, but the option is there should it be required. The mentioned forced update was essential and necessary to make the licence servers more robust and fix outlying bugs in the login and user registration. Was it also related to GDPR? Yes, it was, but unlike what has been suggested, it was not solely because of that, and would have had to happen anyway at some point, regardless of GDPR. This is NOT the norm and was a very specific and punctual occasion, and while it made one or two users unhappy, in general the negative impact was far less than the positive impact (ie: less people are having less login and registration issues as the YYG servers are more robust).

    If you haven't made a topic about it, then maybe make one so others can see what your doing and comment? Afaik, all the collision system bugs were ironed out...

    Contact the YYG helpdesk and make a topic in the legacy forum. This is not something related to the issue being discussed here.
     
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