Pelican Police
Member
Hello
I'd like to talk about an idea I have, to discuss whether it's possible and if so, accumulate the knowledge to execute it.
The issue
Yesterday, Yoyogames showed us how fragile the 1.4 installer is by temporarily deleting the RSS feed that it depends on to finalise the install.
When you enter your license code, the license server verifies your key/login, and then tells you what modules you're allowed to use. These module packages are not included with the installer, and have to be installed separately next. You cannot use game maker until they're installed. The URL to these modules is contained in the RSS feed which, 24 hours ago, went offline. In that moment, it was debatable as to whether GM1.4 would ever be able to be installed again.
Luckily it's back. For now.
Although one issue remains, and it's not new. Even though the installer knows where to retrieve the modules from, that server doesn't seem to reply, resulting in this error:
I've emailed support about this error multiple times, and the response is always they don't know what causes it, they reset my license key, and usually by the time this exchange has happened, the servers are working again anyway. This has been such a persistent issue, to the point I wrote a tutorial on how to install game maker because every time I did, I found myself googling around the internet for hours, and eventually finding solutions in topics I'd found before, evident by the fact that I'd already liked them.
The Objective
So I'd like to call upon the lurkers that know how the insides of game maker works, to help provide the knowledge to produce a patch that fixes this bug / any other dependancies that game maker relies on to install itself. There's this, but it doesn't seem to work for me.
Also I'd like to make it ABSOLUTELY CLEAR that
I DO NOT WANT TO CRACK 1.4.
I am not looking to bypass the licensing part of game maker, as that has never caused me any problems. It's just obtaining the modules.
I understand if some information has to be discussed privately as out of context could result in... Unwanted consequences, and needs to be published in a way that doesn't allow people following the instructions to stray into illegal territory. But together we need to find a solution to this, before GM1.4 is gone forever.
Let me know how we can start this, (if it's allowed, of course).
There's also .NET3.5 that's installed when you first launch the installer for the first time, but it uses the internet to obtain this from microsoft. The only installers I can find for this component do exactly the same thing that the game maker installer does. It would be good if we could find a way to install this without internet, in case microsoft were to drop support for it.
Risk Assessment
Here are some risks I can see with this project, and my justifications / reasoning for continuing to propose it anyway.
I'd like to talk about an idea I have, to discuss whether it's possible and if so, accumulate the knowledge to execute it.
The issue
Yesterday, Yoyogames showed us how fragile the 1.4 installer is by temporarily deleting the RSS feed that it depends on to finalise the install.
When you enter your license code, the license server verifies your key/login, and then tells you what modules you're allowed to use. These module packages are not included with the installer, and have to be installed separately next. You cannot use game maker until they're installed. The URL to these modules is contained in the RSS feed which, 24 hours ago, went offline. In that moment, it was debatable as to whether GM1.4 would ever be able to be installed again.
Luckily it's back. For now.
Although one issue remains, and it's not new. Even though the installer knows where to retrieve the modules from, that server doesn't seem to reply, resulting in this error:
I've emailed support about this error multiple times, and the response is always they don't know what causes it, they reset my license key, and usually by the time this exchange has happened, the servers are working again anyway. This has been such a persistent issue, to the point I wrote a tutorial on how to install game maker because every time I did, I found myself googling around the internet for hours, and eventually finding solutions in topics I'd found before, evident by the fact that I'd already liked them.
The Objective
So I'd like to call upon the lurkers that know how the insides of game maker works, to help provide the knowledge to produce a patch that fixes this bug / any other dependancies that game maker relies on to install itself. There's this, but it doesn't seem to work for me.
Also I'd like to make it ABSOLUTELY CLEAR that
I DO NOT WANT TO CRACK 1.4.
I am not looking to bypass the licensing part of game maker, as that has never caused me any problems. It's just obtaining the modules.
I understand if some information has to be discussed privately as out of context could result in... Unwanted consequences, and needs to be published in a way that doesn't allow people following the instructions to stray into illegal territory. But together we need to find a solution to this, before GM1.4 is gone forever.
Let me know how we can start this, (if it's allowed, of course).
There's also .NET3.5 that's installed when you first launch the installer for the first time, but it uses the internet to obtain this from microsoft. The only installers I can find for this component do exactly the same thing that the game maker installer does. It would be good if we could find a way to install this without internet, in case microsoft were to drop support for it.
Risk Assessment
Here are some risks I can see with this project, and my justifications / reasoning for continuing to propose it anyway.
Does yoyo Games even want people using 1.4?
It's well known that support ended for GM1.4 a long time ago. So it is absurd to expect them to make sure it works. But ending support for a product is different from actually trying to prevent people from using it. To be clear, I don't think they are. But a risk to this project is that they could be. Perhaps GM1.4 is causing them problems, perhaps it is losing them sales. Speculation is irrelevant. If this is the case, then obviously we can't go forward with this.
Evidence to the contrary:
- Yoyo games would remove the the GM1.4 install page. Sure, it's not indexed in google, but that seems more of a marketing decision so new customers don't download the wrong version.
- Yoyo games produced a final version of GM1.4 before they sunset it that fixed issues that broke it. If they didn't want people to use it, they'd have just left it broken.
- Backwards compatibility. You need 1.4 to port forward legacy project files (gm8 and older).
- Yoyo games would close the licensing servers. Which they have never done, not even for GM8 which is even older. Which brings us to:
Yoyo could stop validating GM1.4 licenses
If they did, there would be absolutely no way to obtain game maker legally. In this situation, there is nothing that could be done.
Evidence to the contrary:
- The game maker 8 licensing servers are still up, so why would they close 1.4?
- This would not be a good look for Yoyogames, and could cause the community to lose faith in future products if they know support is immediately dropped once a new version is out.
Microsoft could break GM1.4
Microsoft could release an update tomorrow that permanently cripples game maker games, or prevents the IDE from opening. Breaking the IDE is less of a problem because you could use an older version of windows before it's broken. But if it breaks final compiled games, you can't expect a mainstream userbase to move to a different version of windows just to play your game.
Evidence to the contrary:
- This actually already happened. But there is now a fix available, created by the community. Which shows that it's possible that it's not game over the second something goes wrong.
- Microsoft is obsessed with backwards compatibility. If they can avoid breaking things, they will.
We could discover a bug in GM1.4 that is unfixable.
It's possible there are some unearthed bugs lurking deep within the sourcecode of GM1.4, that would make any developer tremble to even think about how to even begin to fix. And you can be sure that this type of bug will present itself 2 days before you're release day and you're already behind schedule.
Evidence to the contrary:
- A pretty serious flaw was discovered for networked games, but it was fixed, despite GM1.4 no longer being developed. This might not be the case every time, but it shows that not all hope is lost.
Game maker 1.4 is already obsolete, why bother?
Most of the modules are arguably dead. Technology has moved on.
Evidence to the contrary:
- As of writing this, steam is peaking at 25 million users online at once. 96% of those people use some version of windows. GM1.4 still exports to windows without issues, and quite efficiently too with YYC.
- If you want to use other modules, it's not recommended at all but the game maker 2 project importer is actually very good. You could get away with only using that, with some minor tweaks.
This could violate the forum rules
I see topics that discuss similar topics get locked for various reasons. Copyright issues, speculation, violation of terms and service, brushing too close to piracy, etc. And I completely understand if this topic gets locked or is not allowed.
Evidence to the contrary:
- I'm hoping that it's clear I am operating in good faith, and I have no intentions of doing or posting anything illegal.
It's well known that support ended for GM1.4 a long time ago. So it is absurd to expect them to make sure it works. But ending support for a product is different from actually trying to prevent people from using it. To be clear, I don't think they are. But a risk to this project is that they could be. Perhaps GM1.4 is causing them problems, perhaps it is losing them sales. Speculation is irrelevant. If this is the case, then obviously we can't go forward with this.
Evidence to the contrary:
- Yoyo games would remove the the GM1.4 install page. Sure, it's not indexed in google, but that seems more of a marketing decision so new customers don't download the wrong version.
- Yoyo games produced a final version of GM1.4 before they sunset it that fixed issues that broke it. If they didn't want people to use it, they'd have just left it broken.
- Backwards compatibility. You need 1.4 to port forward legacy project files (gm8 and older).
- Yoyo games would close the licensing servers. Which they have never done, not even for GM8 which is even older. Which brings us to:
Yoyo could stop validating GM1.4 licenses
If they did, there would be absolutely no way to obtain game maker legally. In this situation, there is nothing that could be done.
Evidence to the contrary:
- The game maker 8 licensing servers are still up, so why would they close 1.4?
- This would not be a good look for Yoyogames, and could cause the community to lose faith in future products if they know support is immediately dropped once a new version is out.
Microsoft could break GM1.4
Microsoft could release an update tomorrow that permanently cripples game maker games, or prevents the IDE from opening. Breaking the IDE is less of a problem because you could use an older version of windows before it's broken. But if it breaks final compiled games, you can't expect a mainstream userbase to move to a different version of windows just to play your game.
Evidence to the contrary:
- This actually already happened. But there is now a fix available, created by the community. Which shows that it's possible that it's not game over the second something goes wrong.
- Microsoft is obsessed with backwards compatibility. If they can avoid breaking things, they will.
We could discover a bug in GM1.4 that is unfixable.
It's possible there are some unearthed bugs lurking deep within the sourcecode of GM1.4, that would make any developer tremble to even think about how to even begin to fix. And you can be sure that this type of bug will present itself 2 days before you're release day and you're already behind schedule.
Evidence to the contrary:
- A pretty serious flaw was discovered for networked games, but it was fixed, despite GM1.4 no longer being developed. This might not be the case every time, but it shows that not all hope is lost.
Game maker 1.4 is already obsolete, why bother?
Most of the modules are arguably dead. Technology has moved on.
Evidence to the contrary:
- As of writing this, steam is peaking at 25 million users online at once. 96% of those people use some version of windows. GM1.4 still exports to windows without issues, and quite efficiently too with YYC.
- If you want to use other modules, it's not recommended at all but the game maker 2 project importer is actually very good. You could get away with only using that, with some minor tweaks.
This could violate the forum rules
I see topics that discuss similar topics get locked for various reasons. Copyright issues, speculation, violation of terms and service, brushing too close to piracy, etc. And I completely understand if this topic gets locked or is not allowed.
Evidence to the contrary:
- I'm hoping that it's clear I am operating in good faith, and I have no intentions of doing or posting anything illegal.
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