GMC Forums Warranted Apology

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NobleValerian

Guest
It showed no grace or tact to allow a small number of individuals to skewer my impression of an entire community. While there can be no justification for abuse, I'm not ashamed to apologize to this community as being guilty of many of my own criticisms, dismissive and cynical to a largely helpful user base.

I apologize for approaching this community expecting the worst, and allowing my fears and concerns to contribute fuel to a cycle of unhealthy interaction. I don't want my only association with this forum to be a negative experience, or allow that experience to push me away from a product that gave me the motivation and confidence to pursue game development so many years ago. I'm anxious to try this again with a better attitude.
 

seanm

Member
No worries fam. I'd like to apologize as well; I can tend to get quite cynical.

Tbh, I'm not 100% sure what you were asking but here are my thoughts on D&D.

D&D is programming; it is GML.
Its just much slower and much more cumbersome. You use pictures instead of words, but it's fundamentally the same.

So to answer what I think was your question,
"Why doesn't Gamemaker/Yoyogames focus more on D&D?"

Because D&D is GML, but it's impossible to create a D&D icon for every possible action you could ever want in a game. And if they simply made a D&D icon for every function in GML, well, you might as well just be wiriting GML at that point.

You have access to some simple and basic functions through D&D. This can help you come to grips with programming paradigms, as well as GM:S paradigms, and game dev paradigms.
But apart from the game equivalent of the "Hello World" function, you really aren't ever going to be able to make something worthwhile. And I mean that both in terms of what is actually possible, and how much time you will waste trying to accomplish it.

cheers
 

Surgeon_

Symbian Curator
@NobleValerian There's something I wanted to point out yesterday but I forgot it because the whole conversation went downhill really fast. It's actually similar to what @seanm said just now. Drag and Drop and writing code basically rest on the same principles, and if you've grasped how to utilize Drag and Drop you're more than half way to writing your own code. And before you say I'm ignorant and shortsighted again, let me give you a quick example:
Imagine trying to dig a big hole with a spoon. It's not that you can't do it (and the spoon itself is not a bad tool), but you definitely cannot say that it's the perfect tool for the job. I mean, why not take a spade? The principle is the same, but a spade is a bigger and sturdier tool, meant for the digging holes.

Same applies to your situation. We've all been in the same position many years ago, trying to make a game only with Drag and Drop, but eventually we tried code and it turned out it was basically the same thing, but much easier and faster. You don't have to start learning back from square one, you can keep building on top of what you already know.

Also, code is much easier to navigate, change and maintain. And you can develop your own style that suits your needs, write comments where you deem them needed, while in Drag and Drop you have one style that's forced upon you and there's nothing you can do about it. Not to mention how clunky the Drag and Drop interface is - when you have 20, 30 icons (which is nothing if you're going for more than a bare minimum, and equals only one or two lines of code), and only about 10 to 15 can fit in that small window, it's going to be a pain to scroll through and find what you need. And what when you add more? And might I add, it's harder to ask for help when all you've got are icons and not code, and there comes a time when everybody asks for help.

I know how you feel, I've been there. I was determined that I could make a game with only Drag and Drop and no code whatsoever. After some time of torturing myself, I just realized it wasn't going to work. But I wasted a lot of time like that. I'm now trying to help you understand what's the right tool for the job, as to not waste time like I once did.

If you still think that I'm trying to undermine you and your ambitions, say so and I will no more comment on any of your posts. If not, we can push what happened yesterday under the rug and start anew.
 

chance

predictably random
Forum Staff
Moderator
But apart from the game equivalent of the "Hello World" function, you really aren't ever going to be able to make something worthwhile. And I mean that both in terms of what is actually possible, and how much time you will waste trying to accomplish it.
Not sure I'd go that far. I recall a few worthwhile games made with D&D icons. But I certainly agree with you that it may be more trouble than it's worth -- in terms of effort versus benefit. It's less effort to learn some basic scripting, even for non-programmers.

It's interesting to see how YoYoGames advertises D&D. They have to walk a careful line. Studio is promoted as not requiring previous programming skills, but they're careful not to promise too much. On the features page, for example, they talk about using D&D "to begin your games development journey" (emphasis mine). And next to that, they talk about GML language being powerful with "added D&D capability". So it's a bit of an advertising dilemma to promote something... and at the same time be careful not to promote it too much.

That said, more D&D examples and games would be useful here. Maybe this discussion will encourage someone to present their D&D game.
 
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NobleValerian

Guest
I appreciate the feedback and positively moving on from the previous thread. Thank you. I'm going to start a new thread, since the old thread is gone, and members not involved in that thread don't have a reference point.
 

Sabnock

Member
this was made with D&D way back in the naughties. although i must add you can't make it with the current GMS as some of the functions used in the tutorial are no longer supported but these can be achieved in alternative ways. (i do wish GMS had a game pause function still though)

that said i much prefer GML for it's flexibility and is more in line with the way i learned to program when i was but a lad :D and i find it easier to problem solve / bug bust in gml.

 
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