Game Mechanics Underwater physics

Yal

🐧 *penguin noises*
GMC Elder
Water is a pretty important geological feature... the reasons humans don't have fur is because we're meant to be water monkeys. It kinda feels underrepresented in a lot of games, though, and water levels are easily many player's least favorite. What's your opinion on water levels and water mechanics?

Most games seems to have one (or sometimes several, depending on possessed items or abilities) of the following types of water physics:
  • Water acts as a bottomless pit or lava, and falling into it kills you outright, unless it also acts as an invisible wall. Water is used as a fancy style of level limiter.
  • Water can be swum on, but only on the surface, and being on the water surface slows you down or limits your moveset in some way, letting it act as a level limiter or obstacle.
  • Water can be diven into, and you can move around freely in it to explore underwater areas in ways normally impossible, possibly with a limited oxygen supply to act as a timer.
  • You sink like a stone when entering water, but can move around on the seafloor like normally, possibly slowed down, possibly with higher or lower jump arcs.
What's your favorite and least favorite way of handling underwater areas? Does any of the ways detract from the game, and does any of the ways add to it?
 
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Galladhan

Guest
I've been deeply fascinated by the idea of water in videogames since i discovered the "Minus World" in Super Mario Bros. It was kinda a "mystical discovery" for me, and since then i've always looked for secret underwater places, in videogames.
smb_minus_world_6.png


I've mostly found them in other Nintendo games, like the Water Temple in Ocarina of Time or the Jolly Roger Bay / Secret Acquarium in Super Mario 64.
The_Secret_Aquarium.png


I can't recall many games in which water is used in a creative way. Ecco the Dolphin, maybe.
cartoline-dal-passato-ecco-the-dolphin_g13e.png


Or Endless Ocean. Or Minecraft, too. The first time i figured out i could swim "up the waterfalls", like a salmon, i was like "woah!" lol
But yeh, most of games use water as a invisible wall/enemy, which is fancy as you said, but not so entertaining. I wish there were more games in which you can swim! =)

EDIT: I forgot the mighty Jungle Hunt for Atari 2600!
 
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Jezla

Member
The Tomb Raider games had the best use of water/swimming mechanics I think. It made water truly a new environment, rather than a type of obstacle.
 
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Aura

Guest
Water mechanics are underused in 2D games IMO. There are a large number of 3D games that use hydrodynamics.

I'd love to name a few games that lift water physics to a high position in the gaming industy. The first one is From Dust:



The second one is Hydrophobia:



Notable mentions include The Silent Hunter series and Skyrim.

Emulating water physics is a tough job, particularly when it comes to 2D games. Everybody can get water physics set up but making them look realistic takes a lot of effort. Personally I don't mind underwater stages as long as it doesn't look fake when comparing it with rest of the game. I have played some of your games (Heart of Ruin being the best one) and it handles water in a really nice way. You get to explore the area with limited oxygen supply, that's the way I prefer water physics in 2D games.
 
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Alunite

Guest
I kinda disagree that humans are designed for water. I mean look at us! If you're wearing a tuxedo you just look like a poorly drawn penguin! And we all know penguins are rubbish swimmers.

I can't really think of many games where I've had fun in underwater levels, the movement is usually less fluid (intentional pun), the camera is all over the place and I'm already scared enough of drowning in real life to want to also worry about drowning in a video game.

Wasn't there recently released a underwater take on Journey? I wonder if that was any good?
 
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Morumotto

Guest
There is an old Japanese doujin/indie game from a developer called Foxeye. The game is called Holdover and the game is almost specifically underwater. It handles water physics very well. It's the usual stuff where there is slowdown and etc. But it tasks you to manage holding your breath and solving puzzles and underwater platforming using the constraint of the physics underwater. It's a great game and one of my favs. It really is a hidden gem! It's in English too so go play it! I still play it after all these years!
 
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Alunite

Guest
Everyone except you, apparently. Swimming is more or less the only thing penguins are good at.
Well I haven't ever seen a penguin win ANY of the swimming events in the olympics so they can't be that great.

Found that underwater Journey-esque game. It's called Abzu, appears to have done quite well overall, but doesn't seem to have any new mechanics related to being underwater.
 
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Nexusrex

Guest
Well, it depends on what you are doing (Aka. Underwater levels, or some levels with fountains..etc).
If you make underwater levels. I love the underwater levels in classic megaman/megaman x. When the move speed is bigger than gravity + speed is a bit slower.
If you make some levels that includes some water, i like the mechanics in NapalmMan i guess in megaman. The water can push you. You will have to time your movement. Good luck :D
 

Yal

🐧 *penguin noises*
GMC Elder
Well I haven't ever seen a penguin win ANY of the swimming events in the olympics so they can't be that great.
Gonna stop taking you seriously at this point, but the olympics are only open to humans. If it'd be legal to enter animals, I'd get a few cheetas for my 100m sprint team and just reel in the cash, just sayin'.
 
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Azure Spectre

Guest
I enjoy water when it has interesting interactions with other things. Putting out fire, wooden objects float on it like a raft, etc... Minecraft water is fun because many other mechanics interact with it, in both helpful and harmful ways to the player.
I don't really see anything wrong with using water as a hazard as long as it is properly communicated to the player what effects the water are going to have before they enter it.

In many games water is frustrating, dreaded, or difficult because it forces the player to think in more dimensions, while simultaneously limiting movement/combat (Ocarina of Time, Donkey Kong Country, Dead Space's zero gravity segments do this too).
 
Personally, I prefer water physics that don't stray too far from the normal ones. off the top of my head, Megaman x and Castlevania Symphony of the Night come to mind, cause you can still do 90% of the normal things you can do out of the water. On the opposite end, you have Mario water physics, which are just plain annoying, because you have a very small amount of things you can do.
 
I always liked Kirby's underwater game play.
Most underwater game play is super annoying though. Slow movement and limited jumping is a pain. It probably wouldn't be so bad if you could kick off platforms (like jumping) to move fast in a direction.

Also penguins and swimming...
 

pixeltroid

Member
Underwater levels in most games typically limit your speed and agility, have wierd floaty controls, and sometimes deplete your life after some time underwater. Overall, it just feels claustrophobic, so no wonder people generally hate water levels.

Theres the option of making the player walk normally (but slower) underwater but thats not realistic and defeats the purpose of water levels.

IMO, since you cant realistically breathe underwater for too long, water levels (if you must have them) should be extremely short and exist to provide non-essential bonus items. But that means more work on player control and theres the risk that people may still not like it, so...

Safe way of using water: You could have the water kneedeep and have the player wade through it a bit slowly, but still be able to use his upper body to use weapons and control switches (this was used in some stages of a Zelda game IIRC). This way water levels wont feel too different from the rest of your game.
 
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Alunite

Guest
Gonna stop taking you seriously at this point, but the olympics are only open to humans. If it'd be legal to enter animals, I'd get a few cheetas for my 100m sprint team and just reel in the cash, just sayin'.
I stopped taking myself seriously a long time ago :p That's a good idea actually, I'd totally watch an olympics that was only animals, that would be way more interesting!

I'll stop derailing the thread now...
 

spe

Member
water monkeys.
Don't call anyone that. It sounds like a bad insult. :p
I kinda disagree that humans are designed for water. I mean look at us! If you're wearing a tuxedo you just look like a poorly drawn penguin! And we all know penguins are rubbish swimmers.
Penguins are much better swimmers. I think if humans were designed to be aquatic beings, we'd have webbed feet (like penguins).

Also, the lack of fur (or hair) has nothing to do with being aquatic. Think otters, beavers, sea lions, etc.
 

Yal

🐧 *penguin noises*
GMC Elder
I think if humans were designed to be aquatic beings, we'd have webbed feet (like penguins).
We do, spread your fingers wide and look for yourself :p It's kinda subtle since we haven't had much time to evolve, but it's there. We also have (on average) stronger upper body musculature than lower bodies, another typical aquatic trait. We're not really meant to be underwater, but we're definitely meant to be in watery terrain.
 
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Rosieu

Guest
I think water physics in games often fall into a trap of trying to be too restrictive or too 'real'. Unless you're a hardcore gamer who loves the type of game that kills you multiple times per level, certain kind of 'exceptions' need to made for water to be enjoyable, things like being able to hold breath for far longer than normal, being able to swim downwards easily, that kind of thing.

In terms of 'swimming' in games, The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess on Wii really hit the mark, because once you got the Zora suit, water was a way of reaching places quickly, and I mean really quickly, swimming there was great fun, because it felt fast, and it felt fluid.

I think one game that worked with water in a clever way was Journey, because the 'Underwater Level' was almost undectable (to the point of being debatable whether it was water at all) because movement was exactly the same, only you sank a little slower than normal. All the sense of "watery-ness" came form things around you, things like schools of 'fish', seaweed and the like (technically they were scarves because of the function they serve in Journey, but the motif and visual theme was there).
 

spe

Member
We do, spread your fingers wide and look for yourself :p It's kinda subtle since we haven't had much time to evolve, but it's there. We also have (on average) stronger upper body musculature than lower bodies, another typical aquatic trait. We're not really meant to be underwater, but we're definitely meant to be in watery terrain.
Eh, that doesn't really qualify as 'webbing' in my opinion, more like a bit of tissue connecting the fingers at the base. I know it may be 'technically' referred to as webbing, but it doesn't have the same effect as actual webbed digits. Most mammals seem to have something similar, anyways. Cats, for example, if you spread their toes apart, you'll see similar connective tissue, which is actually proportionately much larger than that found between the human digits. However, that doesn't mean cats like to swim. I think we all know how much cats like water. :p
The second part isn't really true either; humans almost always are able to apply more pressure with the legs than with the arms. Which makes sense, considering the fact that we typically spend much more time walking than we do anything else with our arms. Hence the common axiom 'lift with your legs, not with your back'. It works because the legs handle heavy lifting better than the back and arms do. The discrepancy between upper body and lower body strength is typically even wider with women, who usually have even less proportional upper body strength than men.
Now, don't get me wrong; I'm not trying to say that humans are not meant for swimming, I just think the notion that we're particularly more well-equipped for it than the average land mammal is too much of a stretch.
Anyways, seeing as this has gone a bit off-topic, I'll attempt to relate this to the intent of the thread: why do you think water is typically used as an obstacle in games? Why does it usually inhibit movement so much? It's probably not because we're all that great at swimming, compared to walking. :p To reference @Rosieu's point:
I think water physics in games often fall into a trap of trying to be too restrictive or too 'real'. Unless you're a hardcore gamer who loves the type of game that kills you multiple times per level, certain kind of 'exceptions' need to made for water to be enjoyable, things like being able to hold breath for far longer than normal, being able to swim downwards easily, that kind of thing.
When moving through water is too realistic, it does become very restrictive. That's how it is in real life, you're just not as capable in the water as you would be on land. Perhaps it's not so good for the purposes of gaming, though. Most games seems to make at least a few exaggerations when it comes to swimming just so it's not so annoying.
 
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