Uncommen RPG Attribute idea

[Aegri]

I am sort of tinkering on a RPG Atribute idea which I glimpsed while playing War of the Visions: Final Fantasy Brave Exvius. I got to this idea when thinking about this JRPG attributes, they are neat and similar attribute systems appear in various JRPGs, however as a long term pen'n'paper RPG player those systems seem weird as attack, defense, crit are attributes also while in several pen'n'paper RPGs they are derives from primary attributes. Besides this I had another idea laying around in my mind for an Zelda like ARPG that is a feint/trap system. I explain latter first.

Feint/Trap system
The rudimentary point or tale that lead to this idea is Dune specifically one sentence of Baron Harkonnen going "a feint, in a feint, in a feint". The basic working of this system is there are normal attacks, special attacks and feint attacks. While normal deals damage, special attack dishes out higher damage eventually with special or elemental components.

The feint attack dishes out less to no damage, yet it attaches a marker on the entity being hit that sort of means "fell for it".
This markers can be accumulated on an entity and they can be harvested by a trap attack. The trap attack can deal damage and/or an effect depending which depends on the ammount of markers.


This in mind the second part is an Attribute system with two tiers, tier one are the base attributes - for me physical force is one - and the derived attributes - for me attack is one. Additionally I thought about basing it on an philosophical elemental system - like air, fire, water, earth -and choose the chinese Wuxing one with five elements. Instead of wood I use air [for those interested the author of the Naruto manga modifies it also by replacing wood and iron with wind and lightning].

There is a core rule: one derived attribute is calculated from three base attributes a primary, a secondary and a tertiary. [three times/two time/one time]

Base attributes

Each base attribute relates to one of the five elements - fire, earth, metal, water, air.

Lifeforce relates to fire
Strength relates to earth
Soulforce relates to metall
Dexterity relates to water
Stamina relates to air


Derived attributes

For a set of derived attributes I choose a fantasy scifi setting that both have Magic and Psionic forces, both are neither good or evil, they come from two different dimensions being in this setting and flow into the "normal world". For the moment this are the aedificatium - from latin to build - and currently the immaterium - approximating immaterial. Other words are dreamscape, eternal dream for aedificatium and warp, aetherium for immaterium. Mana comes from the aedificatium, psionic from the immaterium.

The relationship between the three is that the normal world is the pivot point or center of a yin yang symbol with yang the aedificatium and yin the immaterium. Basically the dream is eternally mutable and emmanating while the immaterium eternally immutable and imitating, the normal world sits somewhere inbetween of those two dimension and is influenced by the ebb and flow of the other two. So much on the world building part.

The list of derived attributes and the base attributes they are calculated from is:

offensive - attributes that dish out

attack - strength(3), dexterity(2), stamina(1)
psienergy - soulforce(3), strength(2), lifeforce(1)
manaenergy - stamina(3), lifeforce(2), dexterity(1)
techenergy - lifeforce(3), soulforce(2), strength(1) [sidenote: this energy is for rather mundane special attacks]
feintenergy - dexterity(3), stamina(2), soulforce(1)

defensive - attributes that ensure survival

lifeenergy - lifeforce(3), strength(2), stamina(1)
defense - dexterity(3), stamina(2), lifeforce(1)
evasion - stamina(3), soulforce(2), dexterity(1)
armor - strength(3), lifeforce(2), soulfoce(1)
critchance - soulforce(3), dexterity(2), strength(1)

This list is preliminary as I am still wondering if I should replace critchance with something like shield. Currently the list introduces something akin to the "the faster you can finish them off the longer you live" or "attack is a good defense" philosophy.

Anyway I putting together a prototype in GMS which will take some time and tell you if above is even half way play-and-enjoyable when I've toyed around with it.

In so far thanks for reading.

 

[Yal]

I think a big reason feints are important in real swordfighting and not in games is because in real swordfighting, a single good strike will instantly kill or incapacitate a participant, and your stamina bar needs a good night's sleep to refill, while in games you usually need to cut an opponent between half a dozen and half a million times depending on if they're a boss or not... and they're aware of it.

So in real life, what you're whittling down is your opponent's reaction speed (trying to not tire yourself out in the process), so feinted attacks that lures them to respond with wasteful full force (and/or leave themselves open) are much more important, while a big ol' damage sponge has very little reason to react and you have very little reason to prolong an already-long battle more.

For further reading, Shamus Young wrote two articles on more realistic sword fights that you might enjoy:

Dueling Gameplay - Twenty Sided

www.shamusyoung.com

Jedi Fallen Order Part 11: Duel of the Flakes - Twenty Sided

www.shamusyoung.com

For your elemental system, I'm thinking something that makes more sense in moment-to-moment gameplay than each stat being tied to an element is each attack being tied to an element; akin to the "mountain punch" in karate, each attack you and every enemy can make is inspired by some aspect of some element, and will temporarily add that element to you for the duration of the animation. Each element also is strong and weak against the others, perhaps also with a secondary rock-paper-scissors for added depth (e.g. the Soul Calibur 2 horizontal/vertical/throw triangle or the Fire Emblem weapon triangle), and this means every attack should ideally be countered with something that's super-effective against it, and that you should be careful using attacks that the enemy have good counters for.

(Increasing your magical stats would increase the elemental effect of attacks, letting you give enemies Nioh-style elemental status ailments but forcing you to think much more about always using the appropriate element)

So where does feinting come in? Well, it's quite simple: you want to use feints that the enemy will counter with a super-effective element, so you know they're gonna use that element, and then you cancel your feint into something that's good against that element. Enemies that are smart might feint with that element, then counter with something effective against the move you'd counter them with, and so on.

 

[Aegri]

Thanks for your reply. I tested my idea and it doesn't work as I hoped it would. However your post gave me a different idea which is more fun.

 

[Slow Fingers]

I think a big reason feints are important in real swordfighting and not in games is because in real swordfighting, a single good strike will instantly kill or incapacitate a participant, and your stamina bar needs a good night's sleep to refill, while in games you usually need to cut an opponent between half a dozen and half a million times depending on if they're a boss or not... and they're aware of it.

Remember Bushido Blade for the PSX? The damage system was incredible in that game. A blow to the head did kill you (there was no health bar at all), and you were wetting your diapers when the IA or your friend made some feints!
I have really awesome memories of this game.
I wonder why this damage system didn't really survived?