GMC Jam Discussion The Thoughtful GMC Jam 42

Status
Not open for further replies.

Micah_DS

Member
I have feedback for @Pixel-Team. Here's my gameplay of The Insufferable Pan, from the start, right up to my rage quit. :duck:
(see the video description for some key time stamps and comments)

Of course, I'll be giving my comments with my votes later as well. I just felt like showing you how much of a bad time the game gave me, which really saddens me, because without the issues I experienced, I definitely would have your game at the very top of my ranking. At the time of writing this, I only have 8 more games to play, so it probably would've got my first pick. I really want to love the game, but it hurts me so. :(
 

Mr Magnus

Viking King
I have feedback for @Pixel-Team. Here's my gameplay of The Insufferable Pan, from the start, right up to my rage quit. :duck:
I don't want to be a sourpuss, but regarding the "unfair jump": that one isn't on the game. It's on you not solving the puzzle correctly. The jump you're complaining is unfair isn't unfair: it's just the wrong way. You're supposed to bring the rat over to the key using the platforms, dodge the fireballs, get it in to the rat hole, and that will teleport you to the button. That's why that rat hole is there to begin with: to clue you in to the fact that the rat should go there because the rat otherwise has no purpose being near the key. Don't get me wrong, it's also really hard, but it's at least more consistent I've found.

I agree the mechanics are very stiff and precision platforming is not a strength of this game and really hold that specific level back (which Pat has told us is literally named 'rm_hard_level_1') but you can't really complain that a level is unfair when you're insisting on the most difficult and unintended method of solving it... other than just for it not being clear enough in cluing you in to the solution. :)
 
Last edited:

Pixel-Team

Master of Pixel-Fu
Hi @Micah_DS . Thank you for streaming my game. I don't mind getting dinged for buggy controls, or even difficulty for that matter. But yes, as @Mr Magnus points out, you're supposed to get the mouse to the grate on the other side, not jump up.

In @Micah_DS's defense, technically the mouse SHOULD be able to grab that ledge and take a shortcut to get to the switch. In the jam version, I think I made it where the mouse can only grab the wall while jumping up, not when he's falling down, so once you've hit the apex of your jump, you can't grab it, and it's easy to think it's not possible.

For what it's worth, in the post-jam version, the mouse had much cleaner mechanics, and he can grab walls whether he's at the start of his jump, coming down from his jump, and even just walking into the walls. And the level in question, that jump is now the solution...
DOWNLOAD

I'll do better next time!
 

EvanSki

Raccoon Jam Host
I have feedback for @Pixel-Team. Here's my gameplay of The Insufferable Pan, from the start, right up to my rage quit. :duck:
(see the video description for some key time stamps and comments)

Of course, I'll be giving my comments with my votes later as well. I just felt like showing you how much of a bad time the game gave me, which really saddens me, because without the issues I experienced, I definitely would have your game at the very top of my ranking. At the time of writing this, I only have 8 more games to play, so it probably would've got my first pick. I really want to love the game, but it hurts me so. :(
Yeah That level is such a difficulty increase, I think its because its a tight space, and theirs a small delay on the input, while having to time the jumps right
I took me a while until I was able to do it then after wards I did it on my second try for my second playthrough
 

EvanSki

Raccoon Jam Host
@ghandpivot Thanks for playing my game,
sad that your video is marked for kids so I couldn't comment,

I realize now that some people wont read the readme right off, or skim through it, and they wont read the messages the game says and thus they will experiment on their own.

The sensitivity can be changed with a hotkey I put in as a last minute patch,
The shooting can be scrolled through with the scroll wheel,
technically you don't need to kill all the enemies, but the fun comes from trying to,
and yes you can skip the last boss fight by just leaving

Their is a lot more I wanted to do besides the generic doom clone
such as riding Cerberus and going on a rampage, or fighting medusa without being able to look at her, but of course time restraints

I still hope you enjoyed! and again thank you for playing!
 

Micah_DS

Member
I don't want to be a sourpuss, but regarding the "unfair jump": that one isn't on the game. It's on you not solving the puzzle correctly. The jump you're complaining is unfair isn't unfair: it's just the wrong way. You're supposed to bring the rat over to the key using the platforms, dodge the fireballs, get it in to the rat hole, and that will teleport you to the button. That's why that rat hole is there to begin with: to clue you in to the fact that the rat should go there because the rat otherwise has no purpose being near the key. Don't get me wrong, it's also really hard, but it's at least more consistent I've found.

I agree the mechanics are very stiff and precision platforming is not a strength of this game and really hold that specific level back (which Pat has told us is literally named 'rm_hard_level_1') but you can't really complain that a level is unfair when you're insisting on the most difficult and unintended method of solving it... other than just for it not being clear enough in cluing you in to the solution. :)
Aha, that solution makes sense. So I guess that jump should've been made totally impossible to prevent people from solving it incorrectly. I admit that it's mostly on me for not thinking through why the rat hole exists, but it is partially on the level design as well, because it seems like a path that could be taken, and I did in fact make it once, which only further enforced that it was the way I should go.

@Pixel-Team I hope I haven't come across too nasty with my comments. I'm only sharing my difficulties in hopes that it can be useful feedback. I'm not trying to be mean or just vent for no reason, I'm just trying to be helpful, so I hope it has come across as such.
 
Last edited:

Pixel-Team

Master of Pixel-Fu
Aha, that solution makes sense. So I guess that jump should've been made totally impossible to prevent people from solving it incorrectly. I admit that it's mostly on me for not thinking through why the rat hole exists, but it is partially on the level design as well, because it seems like a path that could be taken, and I did in fact make it once, which only further enforced that it was the way I should go.

@Pixel-Team I hope I haven't come across too nasty with my comments. I'm only sharing my difficulties in hopes that it can be useful feedback. I'm not trying to be mean or just vent for no reason, I'm just trying to be helpful, so I hope it has come across as such.
Think nothing of it, @Micah_DS . I should not have made the unintended solution even remotely accessible. I should have sealed off that area. Then you wouldn't have wasted your time trying to go that way. This is how we all learn about good and bad level design. Your feedback is very helpful in letting me know where my problem areas are, and I'm very grateful for you and the other streamers for taking the time to play! Thank you!!
 

GameDevDan

Former Jam Host
Moderator
GMC Elder
Thanks for the video playthrough @ghandpivot - really appreciate the feedback :) replies here:

Would be cool with 3D-ish animated dice
➡ Agree, although surprisingly hard to do even if you pre-render because it has to look like the dice are landing on the right number and not just rolling & then randomising the face when they land. Would probably need to render out 6 different sprites for each possible individual roll.

the highlighting looks a bit weird or glitchy / the highlight system looks really weird because it's highlighting the block above
➡ Somewhat agree. I wanted the glow to be really obvious and took my lead from other board game-video games I play which use similar highlights - but it does look a bit strange especially when you roll a duplicate number and a lot of squares are lit up at once.

Speed up the transitions / It's so slow I don't wanna play all the characters / Is there any way to speed this up? / 5 minutes isn't much when you're seeing it as just a game but it's a lot when it's part of a jam
➡ I totally agree, and I'm sorry for not taking my own advice from many a previous jam. Reviewers have 30+ games to play and I should've at least made it so the transitions between turns can be skipped or sped up if you click through them! Believe it or not they were even slower for most of testing and I did speed them up a tiny bit before the final build.

Why'd it say 42? That said 11 - wonder if it's an overlap issue
➡ Yep, you're seeing a 4 and a 2 side-by-side. If I update in future I would probably make the building animations happen one after the other, not all at the same time (although this adds to the slowness problem, I could make the animation itself faster and/or skippable).

Add some drop shadow around the board
➡ If I continue this, and I am kind of hoping to, I would probably invest a bit more time in the background graphics overall and actually make it look more "realistic". For example if you look at the board itself - it's totally like the sort of watercolor effect you get on a real board game like Catan or Carcassone. But then the rest of the game is in my regular cartoony style. If I want this to be a commercial thing I would probably lean more towards the realism.
 

Mightyjor

Member
For what it's worth, in the post-jam version, the mouse had much cleaner mechanics, and he can grab walls whether he's at the start of his jump, coming down from his jump, and even just walking into the walls. And the level in question, that jump is now the solution...
DOWNLOAD
Just played through the remastered HD version, can confirm it is wonderful. Jumping is still a bit clunky, but I love the death animations, the fixed mouse mechanics, the disappearing platforms and the remixed puzzles that are actually pretty fun! Awesome work.
 

Pixel-Team

Master of Pixel-Fu
You cheeky little bugger! So you did find a shortcut! I'm going to fix the escape bug and the arrow key menu bug and have another look at that level! Thanks for playing!
 

Micah_DS

Member
Heyyy, I got my votes done way earlier than I usually do. I guess it helps to have an exciting work opportunity and a new Tales game coming up to light a fire under my rear.
BTW, I'm aiming to have my community prize ready to give when the voting results come out. :)

-
And if anyone cares, I don't think I'll continue Toilet Story, which is probably for the best. Working in that perspective is harder than I thought it would be. If I make a game like it in the future, I'll go with 3D models instead of the sprites, but right now I have other stuff I'm working toward, and I still have to go back to my Opera GX jam game to add audio to finish that up. Can't do everything, gotta make sacrifices.
 

EvanSki

Raccoon Jam Host
Does it actually remember the difficulty after I set it?
Yes, but it doesnt do anything, then when you go back to the menu its reset...ran out of time lol

I am going to be knocking the game down a bit, since it consists of a notable amount of pre-existing assets and 3rd-party content.
fair enough I guess? not sure what you mean by 3rd party content, the only existing stuff was the 3d camera and collision

Well done on scratching the ol' Doom itch.
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed!
 

Mightyjor

Member
Cthildha by Jordan Thomas, Amber Thomas
It's a very nice, laid back experience. I do prefer some challenge in games, but it was cute, fairly well polished, and has a nice story. Honestly, I think I'm only ranking it as low as I am because I didn't find it super fun, but that's probably just due to my own preferences. It may not truly be lacking in fun factor, it's just not the kind of game I'd find all that fun in the first place. It's hard for me to rate games like this, sorry, I am trying.
Thanks for playing through the game! I just want to say that I totally understand your review and it not really being your style of game. It actually reflects what I’ve seen in a couple reviews so far and expect to see in a few more.

Part of me wanted to include destruction and shooting and all your typical action space shooter tropes, but I chose to go the “no violence” route knowing it would probably suffer a bit in the ranks for it. I was totally expecting it to bomb with some reviewers, so ending up in the middle of a list for someone who doesn’t like these kinds of games is fine with me, especially considering the strong competition this jam. :)
 

The M

Member
Hm. So now I've heard from multiple sources that going fullscreen doesn't really work that well with my game. To be honest I never tested it. I figured that since people have varying resolutions, scalings, pixel densities and whatnot the game would either handle it fine or break down. Apparently, it does the latter if you enable fullscreen.

@Micah_DS You are correct about the clipping. I explicitly check for walls in the path, but not for non-blocking objects. On the other hand, the traps intentionally have a fairly small hit box so you can easily sneak past them anyway ;)
 

Micah_DS

Member
Micah_DS said:
I am going to be knocking the game down a bit, since it consists of a notable amount of pre-existing assets and 3rd-party content.
fair enough I guess? not sure what you mean by 3rd party content, the only existing stuff was the 3d camera and collision
The 3rd-party content I was referring to would be the enemy sprites, various other graphics, sounds, etc. I gave the same treatment to other games that used 3rd-party graphics and audio. Not that using 3rd-party assets is a bad thing. On the contrary, they are allowed for good reason and they should be used when people do not have the time or experience to do something themselves. It's just my attempt at recognizing and rewarding people who do put in the time and effort to do it themselves. I'm really just trying to do my best to give every game what it deserves, though my viewpoint is certainly subjective.
 
Thanks @Micah_DS for your feedback(and your ranking)! The arrows really are the manuals of Tony Hawk haha, I was just saying that to a friend the other day. So far I don't know of anyone getting close to Alice's score. She's even beaten me currently.

@kburkhart84
kburkart84 said:
I still don't know why this god of skiing is skiing though...
I mean, you answered yourself there, he's the god of skiiing.
 

dadio

Potato Overlord
Forum Staff
Moderator
Do we have dates for the next GMC Jam? Is it end of Nov? (Plz don't be Dec...) I really *really* wanna make a point of entering these things again...
 

GameDevDan

Former Jam Host
Moderator
GMC Elder
Do we have dates for the next GMC Jam? Is it end of Nov? (Plz don't be Dec...) I really *really* wanna make a point of entering these things again...
If we were following the current pattern it would be the last Thursday to the last Monday of November (25th-29th) - but of course it's up to the host's discretion / when they are actually available, etc

EDIT: Ninja'd by Evan... but I was right :D
 

EvanSki

Raccoon Jam Host
If we were following the current pattern it would be the last Thursday to the last Monday of November (25th-29th) - but of course it's up to the host's discretion / when they are actually available, etc

EDIT: Ninja'd by Evan... but I was right :D
@Alice has advised me on not changing the start of GMCJ43, but I was thinking perhaps, just maybe, making the jam time longer?
I do really want it to be more open to more people, I dont want them to have to choose between family time and a game jam, I want them to have their cake and eat it too
 

kburkhart84

Firehammer Games
I wouldn't mind a longer time to work on the jam, but at the same time that is more time taken out of your life for the people who will actually use it. Some of the whole spirit of the jam is the whole limited time thing, so I don't know who all will agree with making it longer. I'm sure plenty will agree, not sure if ALL would agree though.
 

Mightyjor

Member
I wouldn't mind a longer time to work on the jam, but at the same time that is more time taken out of your life for the people who will actually use it. Some of the whole spirit of the jam is the whole limited time thing, so I don't know who all will agree with making it longer. I'm sure plenty will agree, not sure if ALL would agree though.
Personally I like longer jams because I can spread out my time between my dev and my family better, but I know we’ll also be creating a bigger disparity between quality of games for those with and without the time to dedicate to it. Personally I would love if we could make it a weekend earlier or later. I don’t know the reason behind having the jam be the last Thursday, , but it means we’ll have the same issue with Thanksgiving basically every year (because the holiday is always the 4th Thursday of November).
 

Pixel-Team

Master of Pixel-Fu
Hi Folks. My reviews have been posted HERE. I had a great time playing all the games, and once again thanks to all the streamers who took the time to play my game on their channels and provide valuable feedback. I'm going to go into my hidey hole for a couple months and take care of my new baby (The Insufferable Pan) and see if I can't grow it into a 5 dollar commercial game. I feel like I've grown so much in the last year and a half as a developer, and it's all because of this community. So thank you all once again, and @EvanSki, I meant what I said about a Marvel Team-Up at the GMC 43!
 

kburkhart84

Firehammer Games
Hi Folks. My reviews have been posted HERE. I had a great time playing all the games, and once again thanks to all the streamers who took the time to play my game on their channels and provide valuable feedback. I'm going to go into my hidey hole for a couple months and take care of my new baby (The Insufferable Pan) and see if I can't grow it into a 5 dollar commercial game. I feel like I've grown so much in the last year and a half as a developer, and it's all because of this community. So thank you all once again, and @EvanSki, I meant what I said about a Marvel Team-Up at the GMC 43!
I'm actually considering trying to just do music this next jam. I've messed with music before, and I know a pretty good amount as far as theory goes, but I've never taken the time to really dig in and just make some. If you guys do team up, consider having me for a third for just music(and maybe some sounds depending on the game). I'm going to work on my composing chops some between now and then.
 

EvanSki

Raccoon Jam Host
and @EvanSki, I meant what I said about a Marvel Team-Up at the GMC 43!
of course! Team pixel-coon? Pixelated Raccoon? Pat the raccoon? idk we need to work on it

I'm actually considering trying to just do music this next jam. I've messed with music before, and I know a pretty good amount as far as theory goes, but I've never taken the time to really dig in and just make some. If you guys do team up, consider having me for a third for just music(and maybe some sounds depending on the game). I'm going to work on my composing chops some between now and then.
Pixelated Raccoon Fire?
 

ghandpivot

Member
The Third Day by Ghandpivot

This game fatal crashed right out of the gate.
Shame you couldn't play the game. Was it an instant crash? I've seen this error from many people but only when you fall down from the platform, not if you just play the game "as intended".
Were you connected to the internet? Did you try to launch the game more than once?
 

Micah_DS

Member
I suggest a teamup of @kburkhart84, @Micah_DS and @Siolfor the Jackal for the next Jam then. What could possibly go wrong? ;)
(and yes, with the idea that they all would be making music)
All music, no art, no code.
Yes, absolutely! We could make 43 jams for the 43rd jam. :D

Why play a game when you could play our sweet, sweet jams? Needs to be an executable? No problem! We present "The Other Jam Player". And everyone will be ecstatic to see the data.win size is a mere 546 MB! Ok, ok, maybe it's a tiiiny bit large, but hey, everyone will be more than happy to download it, because it's got my bonus impromptu 'sand kazoo storm' track.
 

Alice

Toolmaker of Bucuresti
Forum Staff
Moderator
I think you would need to setup a special .flac player extension for that, since GM:S seems to be able to internally play only WAVs and OGGs (there might be source MP3 files and such, but they get converted to OGG anyway).
 

Pixel-Team

Master of Pixel-Fu
Shame you couldn't play the game. Was it an instant crash? I've seen this error from many people but only when you fall down from the platform, not if you just play the game "as intended".
Were you connected to the internet? Did you try to launch the game more than once?
I went back and tried this game again and was able to play. I should have been more patient with the game following the crash, because I actually enjoyed it. I have updated my comment for this game.
 

EvanSki

Raccoon Jam Host
I went back and tried this game again and was able to play. I should have been more patient with the game following the crash, because I actually enjoyed it. I have updated my comment for this game.
always ignore errors when it gives you the option to.
Out of sight out of mind
 

dadio

Potato Overlord
Forum Staff
Moderator
@EvanSki Longer Jam thing:
Yeah, I was thinking about that too when I was running it.
I'd love to see a 1 week Jam...
I think the problem is... some folks (like me *cough*) will never have that weekend free (weekends are family time) so we struggle to ever enter - or just enter jokes cos not enough time...
if the thing ran for 1 full week Mon-Sun midnight, I'd say that is inclusive as it can get and we'd see more entrants.
(For me personally that would = 5 useable Jam days = much more likely to enter something decent.)
Just my 2 cents.
 

GameDevDan

Former Jam Host
Moderator
GMC Elder
We experimented before with GMC Jam 31 being 10 days long... and it got one of the lowest entry counts ever (26)

I think sometimes giving people more time actually has the opposite effect to what you would expect - but if it means we get a new @dadio game sometime this century I'm all for it
 

dadio

Potato Overlord
Forum Staff
Moderator
Yeah, 10 days is too long. People get bored. Less pressure etc. (And anything even more than that, like 2 weeks, is madness.)
But exactly 1 week, every day of the week covered just once, seems like it should allow pretty much everyone in every work/school/life situation to enter.
Like I say, for me personally, with my life setup, it would give me 4 hours or so free on it, for 5 days straight (4 x 5 = 20 hours total.)
And I feel like, with 20 hours, I'd finally have "enough time" to make something... *gasp!* proper for once.
Just worth throwing out there.
Don't see what harm could come of giving it a whirl just for one Jam.

1 full Week.
Like Mon 22nd - Sun 28th Nov
 

Alice

Toolmaker of Bucuresti
Forum Staff
Moderator
I guess we might try this weekly setup out, especially with this whole Thanksgiving ahead? We've already have reasons to believe that 10 days (including two weekends) is too much and 4 days is fine, we might experiment with the timeframe a little more.

Not sure how people celebrate Thanksgiving, but we might want to either push the Jam the week after it or at least make the last day late Monday/early Tuesday, so that the Jam ends on an extra weekday not occupated by family reunions or somesuch?

I just hope people won't be like "I had too little time and my game is gonna suck compared to those who worked on their full week, let's not submit it".
First, because we consider extending the Jam to increase participation in the first place.
Second, because going by the 10-day Jam example, one really shouldn't hope too much for drastic increase in quality; the most Jam work tends to be done in the last days anyway.
It's more of "let's give people more Jam days to choose from" than "let's make people work for more Jam games for better entries" (note: using the extra Jam time to make higher quality entries is still very welcome, just not what we expect you to do).
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top