GMC Jam Discussion The Stellar GMC Jam #4 Discussion Thread

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chance

predictably random
Forum Staff
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Why do people have trouble figuring out how to play infinity infection? The second reviewer also couldn't figure it out. -.-

I spent a whole day making it user friendly, ...
Sometimes we can't see our game as others do. That's why developers beta-test with outside players unfamiliar with the game. With a Jam, of course, you don't have that ability. So it's best to include instructions -- even for things that seem obvious to you.

With my game, I learned a lot by watching @ghandpivot's video play-through. That revealed plenty of weaknesses flaws I hadn't thought of.
 

sylvain_l

Member
It's Obvious that the infection is bad and that you shouldn't get into it because it's red and an alarm goes off when you get too close, you can easily figure out what your position is because it's in the middle of that big circle and the star where you're at also has a circle around it, I did everything to make it as Obvious and user friendly as possible.
you are totally wrong about your obvious assumption:
proof:
first game I try a few research on a planet as nothing really great was happening, I supposed perhaps being on an infected planet would help find a cure faster... well couldn't go on an infected planet ie in the red growing area; so I try to go to the nearest planet: 2 research later: game over <-- At that moment, it become obvious that I shouldn't be on a planet when it get infected :p ).
without knowing the rules, the only way for me was try, fail,... replay
 

lolslayer

Member
Sometimes we can't see our game as others do. That's why developers beta-test with outside players unfamiliar with the game. With a Jam, of course, you don't have that ability. So it's best to include instructions -- even for things that seem obvious to you.

With my game, I learned a lot by watching @ghandpivot's video play-through. That revealed plenty of weaknesses flaws I hadn't thought of.
Yeah,you're completely right, but I it's too late now to include it with the jam launcher and I feel horrible for that now
 

lolslayer

Member
you are totally wrong about your obvious assumption:
proof:
first game I try a few research on a planet as nothing really great was happening, I supposed perhaps being on an infected planet would help find a cure faster... well couldn't go on an infected planet ie in the red growing area; so I try to go to the nearest planet: 2 research later: game over <-- At that moment, it become obvious that I shouldn't be on a planet when it get infected :p ).
without knowing the rules, the only way for me was try, fail,... replay
Hmm, too bad, I hoped it was Obvious after all the time I spent making it as easy as possible to understand. : (

But I sent you the full instructions on PM so I hope that you fully understand now how you should play it, I also sent the instructions to every known reviewer out there so I hope that they'll read it before rating the game.

The chance you get to find knowledge is random per planet and doesn't change by any other factor than it's ID
 

sylvain_l

Member
I feel horrible for that now
don't flagellate yourself; cause if you don't participate regulary in GMC jam it's not so obvious that the readme is an essential thing here./ or having some tutorial instructions in the game.

GMC jam have that practice of Alice packing everything into one big zip (so that make text posted in your entry nearly invisible / and also as alice close the thread no more editable after the jam period :p). Most other jam have different practice, which made the way you comunicate with potential tester/reviewer more easly to update your info/guide/etc...
 

lolslayer

Member
@lolslayer -- FWIW, i'll be sure to give your game a decent shot. :)
Thanks man

GMC jam have that practice of Alice packing everything into one big zip (so that make text posted in your entry nearly invisible / and also as alice close the thread no more editable after the jam period :p). Most other jam have different practice, which made the way you comunicate with potential tester/reviewer more easly to update your info/guide/etc...
And true, but it's not that only I am interested in how the game is received, a friend of mine worked on it too and he also can't find any review about it because of me which is just awful.
 

ghandpivot

Member
readme is an essential thing here.
Are they really though? Before the jam player I never bothered with opening any readme files, now it's so streamlined that I might as well do it, but usually only for the few seconds the game takes to boot.

And @lolslayer, to be fair, there aren't all that many reviews in the voting post yet. In fact there are only 2 people who've played through and ranked their favorites, so I don't really know what you mean with "every other entry is getting the attention they deserve but not me". Sorry, so far there are 15-20 word about my game tops, and I'm probably far from the bottom. There will be more reviews, is what I'm getting at.
 

JacobV

Member
Yeah, there are a lot of reviews to be had and a lot of the big, in-depth reviewers haven't even finished yet. I've gotten 1 real review so far, so don't feel too bad.
 

lolslayer

Member
Are they really though? Before the jam player I never bothered with opening any readme files, now it's so streamlined that I might as well do it, but usually only for the few seconds the game takes to boot.

And @lolslayer, to be fair, there aren't all that many reviews in the voting post yet. In fact there are only 2 people who've played through and ranked their favorites, so I don't really know what you mean with "every other entry is getting the attention they deserve but not me". Sorry, so far there are 15-20 word about my game tops, and I'm probably far from the bottom. There will be more reviews, is what I'm getting at.
Because those 2 people both didn't know how to play the game xD
 

sylvain_l

Member
Are they really though? Before the jam player I never bothered with opening any readme files,
lol, nobody going to die for a missing readme ;) (at worst going to be a few more gameover)
me neither; I first try to play the game directly -and most of the time with the intro screen and as most use common keys, I don't require any-; but as soon as something doesn't work; I look for the readme.( help if I don't get how to play/figue out what keys I need to play)

the criptic info missing for lolslayer Infection;is that the infection start on the planet you start -so there is an implicit requirement of leaving it fast! <- as long as you don't get that that's a fast game over guaranted - additionnaly that color of planets have no meaning and the % are the probability of getting 1 ressource - while my first assumption was it to be the concentration of the ressources I should get and the color was perhaps for the type of ressource-, and the last confusing thing is that when you win, the screen display "you loose" on a green screen. :D
Once you figure out right rules; game is simple and interesting game jam entry (the fact I can rotate and navigate freely the universe map with a pointer to my location is really neat).
 

Posho

Member
Yeah, there are a lot of reviews to be had and a lot of the big, in-depth reviewers haven't even finished yet. I've gotten 1 real review so far, so don't feel too bad.
On my part, I'm trying to play each game as profoundly as I can, aiming to beat each game regardless of being stopped by bugs, because those are totally understandable as long as they don't seem like the developer got lazy... t's taking me ages, but I feel like everyone should receive a non-poopy review for their hard 3-day work.

There is one game that took me 50 minutes to beat because enemies kept getting me stuck in the walls and had to restart constantly, and another that I simply couldn't understand what was going on at the screen, even after reading the ReadMe file. I might have to contact the developer of that game to make sure it's nothing wrong on my part, because I don't want to give it a "lol couldn't even play it -1/5" review.

I think I really need to rethink my life decisions when I realize that I'm fully editing playthroughs and drawing fan art of 43 basement dwellers' game jam titles...
Also, read the damn READMEs, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
 

ghandpivot

Member
I think I really need to rethink my life decisions when I realize that I'm fully editing playthroughs and drawing fan art of 43 basement dwellers' game jam titles
And that's amazing, thank you on behalf of everyone. That being said, I understand completely that everybody can't give every game a chance, if it's not fun then many people will turn it off, rightfully so. I've got 14 hours of studies every day including weekends, I wont spend my daily free hour doing stuff I don't enjoy :p
That being said, reviewing and playing the games as a whole has been a good time.
 
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Thexel PIN

Guest
Thanks man, that cheers me me up :)
Don't feel bad about your game. I played it and really enjoyed it! I didn't know what to do at the beginning, I just pressed on planets and "Research" (Without seeing nothing happen). After clicking it a few times, I noticed a red circle getting closer and my circle growing up and instantly understood what was happening by the title of the game.
 

Lukan

Gay Wizard Freak

An image of my jam game that I didn't get to finish ;-;
I've been working on it still, it's a bit like my 80X45 jam game
 

lolslayer

Member
Don't feel bad about your game. I played it and really enjoyed it! I didn't know what to do at the beginning, I just pressed on planets and "Research" (Without seeing nothing happen). After clicking it a few times, I noticed a red circle getting closer and my circle growing up and instantly understood what was happening by the title of the game.
Thanks man, you're the first one I ever heard saying something about the game and I really appreciate it :)
 

Posho

Member

An image of my jam game that I didn't get to finish ;-;
I've been working on it still, it's a bit like my 80X45 jam game
Is it not in the Official ZIP file? Give me a link and I'll review it and add it to the character collage... No one shall be left behind, no one!
 

Joh

Member
Ah, that one was actually my bad then. It very much had the arcady score attack feeling over it, with combos and a highscore as soon as you died, so I figured it was the only level. I might replay it offscreen to see more, but this time around I am VERY short on time, which is the reason I do 10 games per video instead of my usual 4-6, and also the reason I quit a lot more games a lot earlier.
Oh, and don't think being a veteran is necessarily all that good. @dadio is a veteran :p
I actually despise making story/narrative game (especially for jams) but I think the theme kinda demanded it. Actually the score stuff was more for the "replayability" or people who just like to top themselves. I don't expect most people to finish the game, but I would think anyone who does likely enjoyed the game. Because level 3 is kinda hard and would probably demand a death and last level is long(er) but it is explicit in its "BTW THIS IS THE LAST PART"ness so hopefully anyone who made it that far would complete it.

Now, some question about jam games likes/dislikes:
I'm curious how people feel about the types of game. I feel (and from experience) replayable score games seem to do good/be good. I think its mostly due to from a coding jam point of view, making a good core is simple enough; expanding it is the hard part.
Narrative/story games seem to do well if its interesting and manages to go somewhere, but most would run out of time(incomplete) or player wouldnt even finish it.
As a matter of fact, my current entry (Badass Voyage) has a story, a "complete" one too. but In reality I cut off 2 levels due to not having time to make them (but the text is in the game, hidden to never be seen :( )
Also what about the type of games? Now I don't want to turn jam games into a science but what tends to do good?
From my personal experience action/fighting/combat do better than anything else (I may very well be wrong, hell I kind of hope I am). Unique ideas can do good too but its hit or miss. One thing i did learn is no card game (which is sad, since I think they can be fun) but the one time I did (while I wont judge whether the game was good or not) I remember some "I don't like card games" comments, which while fair, I don't think i've ever seen about other genres.

So essentially, what kind of games do you like, what kind of games are a bad idea?
 

ghandpivot

Member
I feel (and from experience) replayable score games seem to do good/be good.
Replayable score games are good if done properly, that is fast, addictive, instant death and instant replay. I did a game 3-4 jams back called The Adventure of Dying, in which you got 1 score each time you won the game, and the next time you booted all spawn rates would multiply with your current score. Winning then would grant you another score and so on. That's a perfect example on how to not do replayability as it kinda sucked and quickly got waaay out of hand.
Here's how that looked when you had 5 score-points.
(though it is easily one of the best boss battles I've ever created, shame it was optional so nobody fought it).
 
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Thexel PIN

Guest
How would it be a game in which the game just to make you feel miserable multiplies your final score for 0.0000000001?
 

The M

Member
I think any kind of game has potential though I'd say looking back at earlier jams, arcade games (of any kind) seems to be common among winners together with puzzle platformers. Generally though, games with high quality gameplay, sound and audio are the ones that win. Of course, if you make a really niche game (I've made some really experimental titles over the years) you'll have to accept that not as many people may be drawn to them. Oh, and remember @Mercerenies GMCynchronized? I don't remember how well it placed but I know it was praised by the community (probably the best rated joke game ever). :)

Also, I've got ten reviews up and done!
 
Why do people have trouble figuring out how to play infinity infection? The second reviewer also couldn't figure it out. -.-

I spent a whole day making it user friendly, I find it extremely annoying that they can't just figure it out, it's literally finding out that you can move the camera with WASD and click on stars with the mouse, and you're good to go.
I dunno about the other guy, but I slammed my mouse button all over those stars/planets and nothing happened. I figured out how to move the view about, but that was it. I'll give it another go this evening.
 
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Posho

Member
Hey, can anyone give me advice for writing constructive criticism? It's kinda hard to say "you shoudda probably have added this and that" although it's very likely they did intend to do that but the time constraints didn't let them.
 

JacobV

Member
I'd just say go for it and tell them what they should've added. It's still helpful for future projects and jams.
 

ghandpivot

Member
My final votes are up. My last batch of reviews is over an hour so it'll have to render over night and I'll put it up in the morning. Might take a while, it's 70gb...
 

TehPilot

Member
Oh, and remember @Mercerenies GMCynchronized? I don't remember how well it placed but I know it was praised by the community (probably the best rated joke game ever). :)
I'll be honest, I still think about that game from time to time. Really clever single-player card game, and I think it could be cool as more than a joke product if expanded upon.

For what it's worth - I've never done a score-based game for a GMC Jam that I can remember. I usually put a lot of focus on presentation and having a simple mechanical progression. Having done a number of in-person events, having something that catches the eye and stands out helps a lot with getting positive attention, and hence why I tend to focus on audiovisual design and polish when I can. (It's also good practice for my art skills, which are really mediocre imo.)

I think any genre can work in a game jam - sometimes it's harder to pull off. Going for a slower, presentation-heavy and story focused approach still netted me solid placements (handful between 1st and 5th, for what it's worth) in past Jams.

Hey, can anyone give me advice for writing constructive criticism? It's kinda hard to say "you shoudda probably have added this and that" although it's very likely they did intend to do that but the time constraints didn't let them.
I think it's fine to just say that. If you're worried about dishing out pure criticism, include positive notes for things you liked about the game. Very rarely do I believe a game is irredeemably bad all the way through; saying what worked alongside what didn't gives direction to the developer for future versions or projects.
 

lolslayer

Member
I dunno about the other guy, but I slammed my mouse button all over those stars/planets and nothing happened. I figured out how to move the view about, but that was it. I'll give it another go this evening.
Strange, I tried the GMC launcher version and it all worked like I expected.

But it's good to hear that you tried your best and thank you very very much that you want to give it another try. : 3
 
@Joh I prefer to try to avoid constraining myself based on what will do well in a jam. I just want to make a good game, and that means whatever genre I want to make, regardless of how well it will score in a jam. The way you play when voting for a jam game is way different than the way you play when you're playing a new game. There's a lot more of them, and there's a good chance you're not trying to get super invested in any of them, cause you want to get to every jam game eventually. If we limit ourselves to just short, score based games because they supposedly average higher in a jam setting, you're not learning anything except how to make short, score based games.

But I don't think it matters much anyways, it really just affects how easy it is to do in the time limit. Shorter games, or arcade style games are easier to do quickly, but they end up lacking the depth, and story, that might come from a more story or character oriented game.
 
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Misu

Guest
I finally gave some reviews today. 10 in exact. I HIGHLY recommend you check this one out. It will interest you (for those who are actually voting too). I will continue to provide more reviews tomorrow very late (because I have to attend some matters in real life).

@Posho I just LOVE your fan art for the GMC Jam entries. Especially how you pictured the character from my entry. Made me laugh. xD
 

NazGhuL

NazTaiL
There is good subjects on this thread to talk about. I want to add a couple of quotes:

I'm curious how people feel about the types of game.
Narrative or arcade, too much reading or "look_don't_play" is not funny. Pressing a single key to advance text is not, in my opinion, a game. I want to be attracted by the game in the first 30 seconds. A game must be, in my opinion, interactive. For a narrative game, where a story is told, collecting books by killing monster and jumping across an acid pool to talk to a NPC is much better than simply pressing next to read the story. An arcade game needs to be quick and you have to respawn quick. (Like super meat boy). For a more strategic game. You better have 2-3 mechanics than 20 poor one. Let's take a survival game. You travel(voyage) on a rainy forest. You want the player to: Eat, take shelter, drink, cure sickness, look for foods, fight snakes, etc... Start small than expand: First level, walk, jump drink. Second level add snakes. Then add more each level. You don't need a very long tutorial for that. Decent art, simple sfx, a free music taken somewhere in the internet and you have a good simple game.

That's only my third jam, and a small one, only 6 hours to work on. But i'm playing games for 3 decades. For me, a game MUST be fun. For me, a game with audio is more fun. A game that quit with a single pressed key makes me angry. I consider that a readme.txt file is useless to give game instructions. Copy/paste the text on a black screen directly in your game. That takes 2 minutes to setup. When i'm in for a jam, I review games because people will take time to review mine. Even if it's negative at least they played it. So the minimum is to play theirs. But unfortunately, I don't have 15 minutes to spend on 40+ games. But if you catch me enough, I will play it again and share it with my friends. That's a friendly competition. But it's a competition. Some dev wants to have fun but some wants to win. To gain experience, to surpass themself. That leads me to this:

Hey, can anyone give me advice for writing constructive criticism? It's kinda hard to say "you shoudda probably have added this and that" although it's very likely they did intend to do that but the time constraints didn't let them.
Just tell him if you had fun, what you liked and what you think it's bad. He will then choose what he will do with all this comments. If 30 players tells you that your music is to loud and they want a volume level control....well guess what you have to do! If your game is not fun. I mean very bad...stop! Take a break and ask yourself why! It is possible to failed. It is very possible to failed. (Unless you are some kind of mix between an elve and a fremen...)
 
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Wraithious

Guest
The only review I've seen about the game I worked on, was about the fact that the reviewer couldn't find out how to play it, does anybody else here have the same problem? Because if so, I'll make sure to post instructions at as many places as possible to make sure that the reviewers at least can play the game and give an actual review -.-
My feelings exactly, even tho my read me told what to do and the whole point of the game, and the big green arrow suggesting to go in the city where you buy stuff and the inn where the guy tells you what you should do and where you can go, and again in the caves when you enter and go down then another big green arrow telling you to go a certain way I JUST DON'T get why the 'reviewers' dont get it ..........

Also theres alot of obvious things you should do in a game, like go to the equip menu and equip something before you fight.....

Or assuming theres no sound when theres a sound button on the startup screen and the menu......

I could go on and on but im not going to waste my time
 
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nvrogers

Guest
I would just like to briefly remind everyone that we're here to make games and learn how to become better developers. Winning isn't the real prize here, and the reviewers are giving valuable feedback. If your game isn't reviewing as well as you'd like, well, we've all been there. This is an opportunity to learn from that.
 
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Thexel PIN

Guest
I would just like to briefly remind everyone that we're here to make games and learn how to become better developers. Winning isn't the real prize here, and the reviewers are giving valuable feedback. If your game isn't reviewing as well as you'd like, well, we've all been there. This is an opportunity to learn from that.
I know. I just like to put some really high standards for me but I'm too childish to accept being defeated.
 

Posho

Member
@Posho I just LOVE your fan art for the GMC Jam entries. Especially how you pictured the character from my entry. Made me laugh. xD
Hahah, thanks. Your character got me in a Lara Croft situation.

Just tell him if you had fun, what you liked and what you think it's bad. He will then choose what he will do with all this comments. If 30 players tells you that your music is to loud and they want a volume level control....well guess what you have to do! If your game is not fun. I mean very bad...stop! Take a break and ask yourself why! It is possible to failed. It is very possible to failed. (Unless you are some kind of mix between an elve and a fremen...)
Yeah, I'll make sure to do that. Thanks a lot.

the reviewers are giving valuable feedback
 
Just my two cents on readme files.
This jam, I didn't have time to include instructions, I was working non stop on the gameplay and art. I almost missed the deadline coding right up until then. I only wrote my readme in the 30ish seconds my game was exporting, and then I had to zip it up, upload and post it. If I tried to include instructions or controls in my game, I either would have missed the deadline or my gameplay wouldn't have been complete enough.
I always make sure to check out other game's readme files for some controls and direction. I think during jams, gameplay needs to be your primary concern, which may mean you don't have time to include an in game tutorial, which is why readme files are so important.
Also, I feel like everyone should be more patient with jam games, give yourself time to understand them before just writing them off. I get it, we all have personal lives and commitments but we have like 13 days in total. That's like 3-4 games a day which I think is totally manageable. I started 3 new classes this week and had an exam yesterday but still managed to find time to play a couple of games.
 

Lukan

Gay Wizard Freak
@Posho it's not in the zip because I didn't get to finish making it, at all. It had no game play during the jam, just sprites and an idea.
 
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Thexel PIN

Guest
Just my two cents on readme files.
This jam, I didn't have time to include instructions, I was working non stop on the gameplay and art. I almost missed the deadline coding right up until then. I only wrote my readme in the 30ish seconds my game was exporting, and then I had to zip it up, upload and post it. If I tried to include instructions or controls in my game, I either would have missed the deadline or my gameplay wouldn't have been complete enough.
I always make sure to check out other game's readme files for some controls and direction. I think during jams, gameplay needs to be your primary concern, which may mean you don't have time to include an in game tutorial, which is why readme files are so important.
Also, I feel like everyone should be more patient with jam games, give yourself time to understand them before just writing them off. I get it, we all have personal lives and commitments but we have like 13 days in total. That's like 3-4 games a day which I think is totally manageable. I started 3 new classes this week and had an exam yesterday but still managed to find time to play a couple of games.
I had the same problem. I was already running late making making the post (in the last hour). Luckily, my game only uses a few controls easy to understand (except for the shift key that nobody seems to use it, not using it makes the game way harder but is a challenge to the player).
 
I had the same problem. I was already running late making making the post (in the last hour). Luckily, my game only uses a few controls easy to understand (except for the shift key that nobody seems to use it, not using it makes the game way harder but is a challenge to the player).
Haha, yes. My game only uses arrows, space and shift but people ignore shift...

Also, I noticed in @NazGhuL's voting post, they mentioned blank full screen games. I think this is a windows 10 issue because I noticed it too just before the jam. The only fix I've foumd(on the forums here) is to check Alternate Sync Method in your game options.
 

Joh

Member
I'll be honest, I still think about that game from time to time. Really clever single-player card game, and I think it could be cool as more than a joke product if expanded upon.

For what it's worth - I've never done a score-based game for a GMC Jam that I can remember. I usually put a lot of focus on presentation and having a simple mechanical progression. Having done a number of in-person events, having something that catches the eye and stands out helps a lot with getting positive attention, and hence why I tend to focus on audiovisual design and polish when I can. (It's also good practice for my art skills, which are really mediocre imo.)

I think any genre can work in a game jam - sometimes it's harder to pull off. Going for a slower, presentation-heavy and story focused approach still netted me solid placements (handful between 1st and 5th, for what it's worth) in past Jams.
I'm sure rpgs are not a good idea (are they ever?) then again, if someone managed I assume its an auto win :p
I def think that presentation is important, unfortunate that I suck at art but I try my best and do give it some priority. Actually think I did alright this time but... (between you and me) polish wasnt quite there. As far as i'm concerned my best presentation game scored the highest so seems legit.

I think my previous one had very good presentation, but not very exiting/involved gameplay and I think that did pretty bad. Some kind of backfire "how dare this slick looking game not be as fun as it looks" (upon fact checking, it still did alright so presentation=Good)

but as the next quote says & @NazGhuL , because of the nature of jam, investment is limited. so I feel lenghty or investment requiring is just a bad idea. that last game I was speaking of (devil's mansion) was ridiculous on that. (I cant believe I did that) It just required too much thinking, and smart thinking too. Today, i'm impressed with what I did, hell i'm impressed with how it did. but god it was a bad jam idea.


@Joh I prefer to try to avoid constraining myself based on what will do well in a jam. I just want to make a good game, and that means whatever genre I want to make, regardless of how well it will score in a jam. The way you play when voting for a jam game is way different than the way you play when you're playing a new game. There's a lot more of them, and there's a good chance you're not trying to get super invested in any of them, cause you want to get to every jam game eventually. If we limit ourselves to just short, score based games because they supposedly average higher in a jam setting, you're not learning anything except how to make short, score based games.

But I don't think it matters much anyways, it really just affects how easy it is to do in the time limit. Shorter games, or arcade style games are easier to do quickly, but they end up lacking the depth, and story, that might come from a more story or character oriented game.
You know its kinda sad, I clearly became slightly too competitive. I dont "constrain" myself but with a set of ideas, I will pick the one I feel has the best shot based on "fun/interactivity/action/flashiness etc" sometime over the one I actually want to make(and then i'm sad with regrets).
This jam I had 2 ideas, one similar to perilous pilgrimage and the one I went with. Now I feel like I might end up eating crow, but by the time I had to commit, aamatniekss 's game looked better (presenation wise) then anything I could hope to deliver. So I decided not to do that one, it's still the one I would have rather made (not to win, but in terms of experience and uniqueness).
I did participate in a lot of jams so I made a bit of everything, most of my unique ones didn't do too good (well some won best theme) but I feel some were really interesting. These days I have my main project and making a world shattering innovative jam entry would just suck since it very well could kill it.(not that I dont try)
 
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Thexel PIN

Guest
I def think that presentation is important...
I do not think presentation is that important. It really gives a "wow" impression but after that the critiques will only refer to the gameplay to not look like someone that judges by the looks (<- salty).
 
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theonewhoisodd

Guest
I'm really tempted to turn Voyage to Alpha Centuri into a 'full' game for burning free time. I figure I need to make it significantly shorter than it currently is (thinking like 8 hours of playing instead of 495), and considering adding so more features such as random events, adding an online highscore board, and being able to save it so you can close and come back. I wanted to know what you all thought of this idea?
 
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