GMC Jam Discussion The Humble GMC Jam #2 Discussion Thread

What theme would you like for the GMC Jam #2?

  • DECONSTRUCTION

    Votes: 32 35.6%
  • YOU ARE NOT THE HERO

    Votes: 43 47.8%
  • POINT OF NO RETURN

    Votes: 15 16.7%

  • Total voters
    90
  • Poll closed .
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Alice

Toolmaker of Bucuresti
Forum Staff
Moderator
Generally, I concur with what people said earlier, about that you don't need to be particularly skilled to participate in the Jam. Even (especially) if all you could do in that timeframe would be Catch-the-Clown game, it'll still be welcome. You probably won't get top ranks, but the feedback you can receive is worth way more than that.

In the meantime, have a letter reveal for the third theme:

- - - N - - - - - - - - - E - - - -
 

Micah_DS

Member
Actually... I think I need to practice more with graphics than I do music. It took me too long to make this pathetic mockup, and I'm not even sure what it is:
Pre-Jam2-Practice_A.png
Maybe I should try my hand at GB style or something. I'm trying to discover / rediscover my strengths and weaknesses before the jam so I can be better prepared. Like last time, I'll only have 24 hours free out of the 72 hours. :(
 

Mr Magnus

Viking King
One of my best-ranked entries quite literally was hand-drawn art that was photographed with a smartphone and imported into the game.

I can't for the life of me draw anything but stick-men and even that's a stretch: So even with the horrible visual style a game can still be good. It just has to look consistent and be a fun game.
 
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chaoticbeta

Guest
First post since the new forums... Actually hype about this jam I already started making some art cause I felt like it, hopefully good themes to make them work haha !!
 

zircher

Member
Actually the rules do allow for that, but it is a crap shoot if the art assets will actually match the theme.
 
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chaoticbeta

Guest
Um... you're not supposed to start until the jam actually starts. Just sayin'.
As if I would stop myself of making a game for fun? supposed to be for fun.. lol

And if you read the rule you can take anything that is already made.. so technically you can use all art/scripts/etc that you made in other games if you want to. Just Saiyan bro
the entry might use assets (graphics, audio, scripts, extensions, Marketplace resources etc.) created before the Jam
 

HayManMarc

Member
Hmm...strange. I've always been under the impression that assets made specifically for the jam could not be created ahead of time, but you could use assets that were already made from something unrelated (hope this makes sense).

I wasn't trying to cause strife - just trying to address jam rules. Please forgive my presumed accusation, Brother chaoticbeta. :cool:
 

Mr Magnus

Viking King
If it's any consolation HayMan, I personally believe that pre-creating assets isn't in the spirit of the jam: but then again I am just slightly biased to causing myself undue stress by creating everything in half the timeframe I'd need. :p
 
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chaoticbeta

Guest
Hmm...strange. I've always been under the impression that assets made specifically for the jam could not be created ahead of time, but you could use assets that were already made from something unrelated (hope this makes sense).

I wasn't trying to cause strife - just trying to address jam rules. Please forgive my presumed accusation, Brother chaoticbeta. :cool:
Its cool man, but yeah that's a reason why I decided to start making some sprites in horror/halloween spirit. And since everything everywhere is getting in the spirit of halloween it is making me want to dabble in it as well you know. Just in good fun at least, even if it doesn't fit the jam theme I don't really care, the time spent doing it is reward in itself :D cheers!
 

fxokz

Member
Im actually so hyped for this jam. I could never participate in ludum dares or gmc jams. This is my first ever one and im going to go hard xddd
 
A

Aura

Guest
Gah, it seems that pixel art is not for me, so I've decided to learn some vector art using Inkscape. I'm going to draw myself this time, thanks to @Alice (...and everybody else) for her suggestions and words of motivation. Now I can rest in peace. ^^"

Actually, I've been playing around with shapes and colours for the last few hours. This is what I can currently draw:



It's quite plain, but I'd like to keep things that simple for some time. I need to learn how to balance contrast, so that you guys don't go blind. But it seems that is going to take some days and hopefully, I'd improve a bit before the Jam starts. Quite excited this time.

Oh yes, did I say that I want some tips and feedback? ^^"
 

Micah_DS

Member
I don't think it's worth getting bent out of shape over graphics for the GMC Jam.

I, personally, have never been fully satisfied with the visual fidelity of my own entries.
One of my best-ranked entries quite literally was hand-drawn art that was photographed with a smartphone and imported into the game.

I can't for the life of me draw anything but stick-men and even that's a stretch: So even with the horrible visual style a game can still be good. It just has to look consistent and be a fun game.
Actually, I completely agree with you guys. I know a game can be great with only lame programmer art, as long as it's got good gameplay and everything fits together. But, for me, on top of what's necessary to make a good game jam game, it's also about what I'm wanting to do personally, rather than what I need to do to make a fun game, and I want to try for something visually appealing. So, that's why I'm trying to discover an art style that I can handle; something that's simple yet interesting enough. That way I can have my cake and eat it too, or something.
That's why I'm experimenting pre-jam, so I can see about discovering an art style I can work with. But, if not, I'll plan to make a game that requires the art skill of an aardvark, assuming they can't draw worth shucks (plot twist: aardvarks tend to be highly skilled in art when given the chance?).

It's true that if you look at a great many game jams - even some jams with teams of 4 or so people - the graphics are usually pretty crude and simple. Honestly, most everything is pretty unrefined, but the gameplay is often fun and interesting, regardless.

So @Aura, my advice is that you might want to mess around a bit trying various art styles pre-jam, like me. But if you don't come up with an art style you like that you can do quickly and consistently, don't worry and just think "functional" graphics and focus on making the gameplay good. Whether that means creating a good challenge, or an interesting story, or something else. This is what I plan to do. I plan to play to my strengths this time around, not trying new things or using the game jam to improve my weak areas. This is my plan of action after reading some advice from people who've succeeded in game jams before.

(oh... ninja'd, haha, well @Aura looks like you've already found a great style... so nice job! I hope I can find something that works for me too)
 

Alice

Toolmaker of Bucuresti
Forum Staff
Moderator
And if you read the rule you can take anything that is already made.. so technically you can use all art/scripts/etc that you made in other games if you want to.
Actually, the full quote is:

the entry might use assets (graphics, audio, scripts, extensions, Marketplace resources etc.) created before the Jam, whether by team members or someone else; however, the credits should make clear where the assets come from and which were made before the Jam
So yes, technically you can start making assets for the game already, but you should then make it clear they were pre-made if you use it in the game, so that voters can take that into account (in a way e.g. @ParodyKnaveBob does). Personally, I'd avoid making graphics for the Jam game before the Jam starts, especially since the theme is not yet known; and graphics are probably the most specific assets.

@HayManMarc: That rule is there since the previous Jam. From what I recall, using assets from elsewhere or repurposing own has been a pretty grey area, and opinions on that varied between users (e.g. some preferred the games to be made from scratch, others to re-use some things they made earlier). So I explicitly stated that assets re-use is perfectly acceptable, but proper credits and listing what has been made for Jam, and what has been made pre-Jam, must be included. That way voters themselves can tell how much of a Jam game has been made beforehand.

Maybe the rule could be changed a bit, so that all pre-made assets must be available for all participants (for free or for a fee) at least before the theme voting starts, and that the assets are linked to in the Jam entry proper (e.g. in README)? That way, once someone uses a specific asset, all the others will be able to find it and use it themselves in later Jam games. It can be particularly useful for code assets, so that others will learn about useful scripts etc. to use in their project, and writing the same library/engine from scratch every single time is somewhat pointless, anyway.

(I don't know if requiring pre-made assets to be available, credited and linked to should be enforced this Jam already, or maybe from the next Jam on, either...)

Thoughts?
 

Yal

🐧 *penguin noises*
GMC Elder
I kinda like the idea... making stock resource sources more well-known benefits everybody in the long run, and this approach also promotes making stuff during the jam since that means you'll be more unique that way, aka stick out more from the crowd and be more memorable during voting and such.
 

chance

predictably random
Forum Staff
Moderator
Maybe the rule could be changed a bit, so that all pre-made assets must be available for all participants (for free or for a fee) at least before the theme voting starts, and that the assets are linked to in the Jam entry proper (e.g. in README)? That way, once someone uses a specific asset, all the others will be able to find it and use it themselves in later Jam games. It can be particularly useful for code assets, so that others will learn about useful scripts etc. to use in their project, and writing the same library/engine from scratch every single time is somewhat pointless, anyway.

(snip)

Thoughts?
I think the current rules are fine. There's no evidence of cheating. But admittedly, many of us re-use generic code. In platformer games, for example, authors don't re-invent their entire platform engine for every Jam. They just make refinements that match the theme. Same for many other genres.

That said, if skilled members want to share their resources before the Jam starts, that's very generous. As Yal said, that can help less-skilled members. But the best artists and programmers will still make unique stuff during the 72-hour Jam, even if they start with generic templates.
 
So the thing is I have my own library of assets that I have been completing over the years.
Everything there is made by me, graphics music and all.
For me building assets is what takes the most time, especially the music. So i think i will be using pre-made music, and will try to draw whatever I can during the jam.

In my opinion, the only purpose of forming teams of 3 participants is to basically have 216 hours of work available instead of 72. Someone who makes his game alone will not have this advantage. Maybe take this into account as well when judging :)
 
K

Kiesenverseist

Guest
I'll be participating again. If exams dont get in the way...
 

Yal

🐧 *penguin noises*
GMC Elder
So the thing is I have my own library of assets that I have been completing over the years.
Everything there is made by me, graphics music and all.
For me building assets is what takes the most time, especially the music. So i think i will be using pre-made music, and will try to draw whatever I can during the jam.

In my opinion, the only purpose of forming teams of 3 participants is to basically have 216 hours of work available instead of 72. Someone who makes his game alone will not have this advantage. Maybe take this into account as well when judging :)
Don't forget that synchronizing a team takes time as well. One of the greatest advantages Tsuka and me had when making Your Fault was that we can basically read each other's mind at this point, so we managed to work full-time on the game with very little communication time losses.
 
K

Kiesenverseist

Guest
I second Yal on that.

Another issue that can arise is that it can be kind of limiting in a sense? I mean if your by yourself you can make any change you want at anytime, even if it means scraping half of your work. But in a team making those sorts of decisions become more difficult - even if it is for the best.
 

Yal

🐧 *penguin noises*
GMC Elder
I second Yal on that.

Another issue that can arise is that it can be kind of limiting in a sense? I mean if your by yourself you can make any change you want at anytime, even if it means scraping half of your work. But in a team making those sorts of decisions become more difficult - even if it is for the best.
Definitely seconding this.

Also, one thing we kinda experienced was that we overworked ourselves because we were forced to keep up with each other, and since we had different responsibilities there were no parts where we'd have to wait for the other to get things done; we had to keep up the same pace and kinda triggered each other. Tsuka literally slept for 24 hours after handing the submission in, and I was so exhausted I caught a cold.
 

Alice

Toolmaker of Bucuresti
Forum Staff
Moderator
Well, I guess I'll keep things the way they are for the time being, then? The requirement to credit asset sources/authors accordingly and to list which assets have been made pre-Jam still stands, though.

Else, E kende theeght there were net eneegh "E"s en theme reveels. Enjee~!

- E - - - - - - - - - I - -
- - - - - R - - - - - - - - E - - - - -
 
S

Snail Man

Guest
*Pops up from crushing college workload*
I actually have this weekend pretty free, so I might be able to actually make something decent during the schoolyear for once! That being said, I'm still perpetually swamped, so I'll probably just end up making "The Door: 5th anniversary edition" or something. However, I don't intend to break my streak of entering every jam since the original Jam #4.

Btw, theme is obviously
SMILER_COGSMILE_COGS
 

makas

Member
This would be my very fist game jam ever... I read all the original post, but I still have some doubts, Can I join the jam even I have never participated?, there will be a jam post where the game I made will submited? also Im scared... :eek:
 

zircher

Member
Code:
- E - - - - - - - - - I - -
b e e r   c o m m u n i t y

- - - - - R - - - - - - - - E - - - - -
f i r e   r i d e r   r e m e m b e r s
 

HayManMarc

Member
This would be my very fist game jam ever... I read all the original post, but I still have some doubts, Can I join the jam even I have never participated?, there will be a jam post where the game I made will submited? also Im scared... :eek:
Yes, of course you can play. :) When the jam starts, there will be a new topic started for your game entry where everyone makes a post for their game and devlog. Then, you just edit your game post as you go.
 

Mr Magnus

Viking King
devlog? how that works?
It's simply an optional "diary" of sorts you may keep during your jamming to let us share in your enjoyment and creation process.

it's 100% optional and how you do it is 100% free choice. Want a standard text diary? Allowed.
Want to make a series of videos or timelapses? Go nuts!
Want to stream it? Get that Twitch account rolling baby!
Want to write a poem? Why not?
Want to put on a pink TuTu and create an interpretive dance? in which case: Glad you can join us Detective Pixel, and be free in your dancing passion!
 
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Yal

🐧 *penguin noises*
GMC Elder
Well, I guess I'll keep things the way they are for the time being, then? The requirement to credit asset sources/authors accordingly and to list which assets have been made pre-Jam still stands, though.

Else, E kende theeght there were net eneegh "E"s en theme reveels. Enjee~!

- E - - - - - - - - - I - -
- - - - - R - - - - - - - - E - - - - -
En eentereesteeng deveelepmeent~

*Adjusts notes*
 

Micah_DS

Member
Anyone up for discussion with the purpose of encouraging more fair reviewing / ranking?
Would you rank a game lower if it uses pre-made graphics from the internet?
For me, yes, I would rank it lower. Or, more accurately, I would do my best to treat it as a null area when reviewing, not letting it affect my review one way or another. And that goes with any use of pre-made content, be it graphics or anything else, especially if it wasn't made by the same person / people that made the jam game.

In this way, I feel I can judge everyone's games more fairly, putting everyone on a level playing field, essentially basing rank only on what everyone's created within the same amount on time.
I mean, someone could take a ton of hours worth of beautifully pre-made content and just slap it in their game with almost no jam time down. I won't look down on this action per se, but I certainly don't feel I should be giving anyone marks for it at all.

The only thing I would give is maybe a very slight thumbs up to pre-made content that was chosen very well, fitting together and complimenting the game. And this is because that wouldn't be about the content itself, but it would be about the person's / team's ability to choose the right content to present things in a fitting way.

-

So, because of the way I'm planning to review and rank, it's very possible that a game with simple graphics made during jam time could outrank a game with impressive graphics that were pre-made.

-

All that said, as a reviewer, it can be a challenge to mentally separate the pre-jam elements from the ones made during the jam. I had a bit of trouble doing this on Jam #1 (on top of being pressed for time). That's why I actually wish no pre-jam content was allowed, but this doesn't appear to be a popular desire, so I'll just have to suck it up and deal with it. Maybe it's not a severe issue, but I'm just saying it does make fair reviewing / ranking a bit more of a task.

Thoughts?
 
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I remember really enjoying the music in a game from the last jam, which in turn led me to enjoy the game a little bit more, until something clicked in my brain and I realised that it was a song from Final Fantasy 6, then I was a bit disappointed. I started to question the sprites as well, and without all that there wasn't much to the game at all and I had to stop playing.
 
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