The GMC Jam Suggestions Topic

Discussion in 'GMC Jam' started by Alice, Feb 13, 2017.

  1. Alice

    Alice Toolmaker of Bucuresti Forum Staff Moderator

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    Generally, I've found that exporting the game as ZIP instead of a single executable is a reliable way not to get the game falsely flagged as virus. If I were to guess, it seems that antiviruses don't like the self-extraction code and interpret it as a box from which a monster could be unpacked.

    As for the Jam Player, I'd like to finally incorporate the entries thumbnails, custom voting criteria, automatic rank sorting (based on a combination of the criteria; e.g. 2 * THEME + 2 * FUN + PRESENTATION + OTHER) and custom export templates. I just need to find the time to do so among the work, the self-sustenance and basic entertainment. Maybe after I'm done with this Jam's voting...
     
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  2. Baukereg

    Baukereg Member

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    The Jam Player currently has a Readme button, but I feel the use of Readme files shouldn't be encouraged. A game should be either self explanatory or should have in-game instructions. Personally if I have to go through a readme file I prefer not to review a game at all. Curious to hear how others think about this.
     
  3. Siolfor the Jackal

    Siolfor the Jackal Member

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    readme.txt files can be for more than just in-game information. It's also a handy place to list your credits if you were in a team or used assets you didn't create.
    Some games are a little more complicated and require a little more information that can be difficult to represent in-game, or the time it would take to include that information could sometimes mean an important gameplay mechanic isn't able to be finished properly.

    Personally, I often start with a readme that lists controls initially and I add other stuff to it as I go. Then only if I have time to include some sort of tutorial or in-game howto is when I will start. But that is dependant on whether or not I have my game working to a playable standard first.

    Also, when I am on my desktop playing jam games, I like to have the readme files open on my second screen as a quick reference for when I forget controls or other important info. My memory isn't the best on a good day, let alone when playing several different new games over the course of a week or two(at best).

    Anyway, I think for jams at least, readmes are perfectly fine if not invaluable, especially for the less experienced users or more ambitious jam ideas.
     
  4. curato

    curato Member

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    I would never discourage readme files though I do love it when everything is baked into the game. There were a number of games that suffered from complicated controls or hidden objectives or mechanics that you had to play detective on to figure out even what you were doing. To me, you should be able to jump in and play it and see what it about right away. Especially jam games should be explained far more than you think it should. You understand it because you designed it. You can't assume that everyone that plays will get it just like you intended it. You may not get the fair chance you game deserves because people don't get the controls or concept that is second nature to you.
     
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  5. HayManMarc

    HayManMarc Member

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    IMO, a perfect game won't need a readme, but I wouldn't say they should be discouraged. I read readmes before playing the Jam game, kinda like you'd read a preface before reading a book. A game that explains itself thru gameplay (tutorial) will rate higher than the same game with an in game 'info dump' (help screen), which will rate better than a ReadMe, which rates better than no help whatsoever. At least, that's how I approach it. I'd like to get my control help in game, but I hardly ever find time to make it happen for jam games. Maybe next one. :)
     
  6. GameDevDan

    GameDevDan Get Gyro Boss DX Moderator GMC Elder

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    I agree that the game itself should include the instructions / controls in some way. But the readme has its uses for resource licenses (e.g. music) and can be a last resort if you reach the deadline and have no tutorial level.
     
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  7. Toque

    Toque Member

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    When judging do you give “bonus points” for devs that do their own art? Art made during the jam timeframe?

    I probably spend too much time on the art. It leaves limited time and skills to make much of a game.

    After thinking about it. I like doing the art. I thought I might use pre made art but I’m leaning toward my current process. Simple games can still be fun.
     
  8. Siolfor the Jackal

    Siolfor the Jackal Member

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    I tend to rank games a wee bit higher when you make your own art and music, especially if you're doing it solo.
     
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  9. curato

    curato Member

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    I have used premade art and people complained about it. I made all my own art and people complained about. I say just do what makes you happy. If it does well then it does well and if it doesn't then it doesn't. It isn't like there are super prizes and from the commentary I have heard from people in these threads the standard people hold games to is so erratic that I am not sure you could please everyone with anything.
     
  10. Toque

    Toque Member

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    Yeah


    Yeah I like making quirky jam game art so that’s what I will keep doing.
     
  11. GMWolf

    GMWolf aka fel666

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    I don't like the idea of scores for a game jam.
    Say you try a really good game first, it's not perfect but given it's a game jam you are thoroughly impressed and give it a 5 star review.
    Now you play another game. And it is mind blowing. Absolutely better than the previous one! Does it mean the previous one didn't deserve a 5 star rating? Of course not, the previous one was incredibly good. But this is on another level, it's only fair for it to get a better review and so you drop the previous one to 4 stars and bring that one up to 5 stars.
    And that's my issue. A score might be a great way to say how good a game is, but as soon as you want to bring in a ranking, you start making strange decisions to make sure you have a clear Ranking.

    I think having each participant rank their top 5 games, and use that to decide on the final ranking.
    Perhaps still have a star rating system just as feedback to the dev. I think this will encourage better star ratings too, making everyone happier :)
     
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  12. curato

    curato Member

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    I do wish there was some consistency anyways. I know my last entry actually ranked one spot lower than anyone rated just because of the mathematical toll or people skipping voting on my entry.
     
  13. Toque

    Toque Member

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    I’m not sure there is any perfect way of judging. Unless you have weeks of deep analysis. I find it impossible to say this game is a 27 and this one is a ranking 19. I might like the games equally but you have to rank them in some way.

    So I don’t take any offense. If people even have 30 seconds of fun with it that’s a win for me.

    The star system is interesting. Maybe rank top ten and a star system. But seeing where your game ranked is kind of fun.
     
  14. GameDevDan

    GameDevDan Get Gyro Boss DX Moderator GMC Elder

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    Yes, this! People always overlook this when we're talking about voting systems.

    I think if we're honest with ourselves it's usually quite easy to see who the top 3-5 entries are and there's usually a consensus around that. Below 5th, and definitely below 10th, people's votes are just all over the place (because the quality of those games is unarguably worse than the top games but they're hard to separate from the other games of the same quality).

    It's nice for everyone to get an exact position, but if you come lower than 10th you probably shouldn't read too much into the actual number (I never have, and I've come below 10th many times). So all we really need is a voting system which delivers a solid, accurate result for the top 5, and I think we have that.
     
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  15. Siolfor the Jackal

    Siolfor the Jackal Member

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    Relative ranking seems easiest to me, I can usually decide whether or not I like A more than B. In the rare case I can't, I can usually fall back on something like which game used the theme better or something like that.
     
  16. FrostyCat

    FrostyCat Member

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    On the same note, I would like to propose randomizing the order in which games are presented to reviewers. Say, on the first run it generates a shuffled list for the order in which entries are shown and saves it locally (e.g. [3, 1, 0, 5, 2, 4]), then follows that order for that specific reviewer going forward.

    Throughout the Jams I've participated in, I noticed that I score and comment differently as I progress through the entries and my expectations drift accordingly. In addition, for unfinished reviews, the same entries at the end of the sequence are the ones that don't get feedback. Randomizing the order in which entries are presented may help reduce these kinds of biases in our reviews.
     
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  17. Alice

    Alice Toolmaker of Bucuresti Forum Staff Moderator

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    @FrostyCat Actually, Jam Player already randomizes the order of entries being presented. It doesn't store a list of entries like you suggest, but instead it randomly picks an entry not yet shown as the next entry to review. The main functional difference is that with saved order the entries order is consistent for the specific reviewer, while with the current choose-on-demand system that order is not guaranteed.

    (if I recall, I even used cryptographically secure RNG, just for the heck of it)
     
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  18. Toque

    Toque Member

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    I agree about reading a lot into it after 10 ranking. But I have to say I look forward to see my ranking. Even if its low. Its just fun. And I gives me the right to harass people I beat.

    The number of entries makes it difficult. You can go through and rate them. But you could spend days actually ranking them if you wanted any kind of accuracy. I should use a spreadsheet system.

    But I like the rankings anyways even if its flawed.

    Its all for fun after all........
     
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  19. Relic

    Relic Member

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    I just perused over the reviews for Jam 34, a day or so before reviews are due. It looks like a real close outcome between 5-6 games which are pretty consistently in reviewers' top 10. I started to wonder how many more votes could come in and so looked through who had voted and who had not. Of the top 6 I think have a chance of placing top 3, 3 of these games' developers have not voted. I'm not criticizing or looking to point any fingers, but I have realized their is an advantage if you don't vote.

    If you don't vote, you remove a review that could give points to others and not to yourself. For instance, TehPilot won the last Jam, his overall score was 3.25 (ish) and he did not vote. Baukereg came second and did vote with 2.7 (ish points). If TehPilot did vote, and gave Baukereg top spot, Baukereg would have had 3.2(ish) points.

    Now this example was not enough to make a difference to the rank, but only just. There is probably some past Jams where this did make a difference. I want to stress I'm not looking to point fingers, I have certainly entered a Jam and not had time to vote. But perhaps there is some system that could be added that makes it a fairer competition between voters and non voters? A suggestion, for consideration:

    • Non voters are added to the score spreadsheet. An average rank is determined for all games (@GameDevDan already has this column) based on actual votes. Each non-voter 'votes' as if they ranked all games according to this average (except for their own game as per usual). This has the advantage of preserving the ranking perfectly, except for the non-voter, removing the advantage for not voting.

    Not everyone enters the Jam for the competition element. I like reading the reviews the most myself and especially seeing those video play throughs. But the competition side could still be fairer.
     
  20. Toque

    Toque Member

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    I had never thought of non voting advantage but you are correct it would exist.

    I guess by your suggestion all devs would in a sense be punished if they don’t vote?
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  21. ParodyKnaveBob

    ParodyKnaveBob The Laughing Rogue

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    YES! It just is not a proper GMC Jam without discussion about changing the voting system! Lol! $X^ D

    Valid point, btw.
     
  22. Relic

    Relic Member

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    I saw it as devs would not gain an advantage (whether aware it existed or not) for not voting, but that's a glass half full vs half empty argument. I don't wish any changes to actively punish devs for not voting - this is a community driven event - but hope my suggestion just mimics what probably would happen if any dev who didn't vote followed the trend of voters.
     
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  23. ParodyKnaveBob

    ParodyKnaveBob The Laughing Rogue

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    Re: @Toque & @Relic

    Yeah, even though I haven't crunched numbers, the proposed logic would account for non-voters who enter and give balance by nullifying their non-votes -- not punish them. In fact, if anything, you might say the current system punishes voters who enter, via pushing them to lift up their own close contenders. $;^ }

    On the other hand, it's a good thing this is a friendly competition that's more about community involvement and honor system than any actual hard-core contest. I mean, y'know, lemme just vote the bottom ones to the top because "I most-value the high risk they took by entering unfinished, broken, etc. prototype demos" and the tops to the bottom because "I least-value these cookie-cutter imitations and amalgamations of polished commercial fare" so that mine gets a little push upward (lol which in this Jam would mean my outlier 17th and 19th place votes would be stronger against all my average 25-30th place votes, lol). But nope, looks like everyone just tries to give everyone else a fair shake, which is cool.

    Nevertheless, yeah, I like the idea of auto-balancing any non-voters just out of general justice/equality principle. ~nodnod~
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
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  24. dadio

    dadio Potato Overlord Forum Staff Moderator

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    This old chestnut has come up a few times before.
    It's impact (non voting advantage) if especially visible when a Jam has a low turnout or low vote count (as this Jam has, on both.)
    There's a tricky balance there...
    between getting useful feedback/votes from people genuinely interested in playing through all the games VS things getting mixed up by "forcing" people to give feedback/vote... (if people feel obligated to vote they may vote more oddly than you think and leave little constructive feedback.)
    My take is always to take the "results/winners" with a large grain of salt in these Jams....
    typically there are a bunch of really stand out games, (top 10 or so, all the ones that amass lots of high votes) and in truth, any one of those 10 or so could have won/got 1st place/got top 3 etc...
    best not to get too hung about the results (and odd things like that non voting advantage)...
    best to just focus on what the whole thing is about...
    the spirit of the thing...
    making something fun in a short timeframe, getting and giving feedback, community interaction etc.

    And on that note, I'd just like to add that I'm sorry for not taking part in the last load of Jams... there just always seemed to be some kind of real life thing or another overlapping the Jam dates... I'm really hoping that *next* time, I can enter properly. (Been a long while now since I've worked on any kind of game - really want to get back into it!)
     
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  25. Toque

    Toque Member

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    Apology not accepted. You should of entered.

    I am making a shame banner. “I code without pants” you must use until the next jam.

    I have personal gripes with the other jammers as well. (Their games are better than mine).

    I’m going to need a lot of these banners.
     
  26. GameDevDan

    GameDevDan Get Gyro Boss DX Moderator GMC Elder

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    This conversation has been had on many occasions. If people are purposely choosing not to vote, and we introduce a punishment mechanism, they could just perform a "wrecking" vote whereby they intentionally put the worst games (i.e. the ones already placing low among the other reviewers) at the top of their list. This would be worse than the current situation because intentionally voting for a bad game can easily push it a long way up the rankings.

    If they're not doing it on purpose, and they just don't have time to play the games, it seems a bit mean to "punish" them for it. Although I do understand where you're coming from, I think this kind of after-the-fact tweaking makes the voting system too complicated and opaque, especially for a lighthearted jam with ~30 entries and no cash prizes :p
     
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  27. IndianaBones

    IndianaBones Member

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    I think at some point you have to take things in good faith that the people who take the not insignificant time to play and rate all these games are trying to vote honestly.

    If there were something at stake such as monetary awards or the winner being elected president of the universe, I would assume stricter measures would need to be taken.

    What about non-participants who vote? I didnt enter in the last few jams but still voted, would this shift the votes in any way given I could vote for all entries?

    Funnily enough (almost ironically perhaps if I use it right), although I finally entered this jam, I've managed my time poorly and may run out of time to vote! Fingers crossed I can get them done in time.
     
  28. Relic

    Relic Member

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    @dadio @GameDevDan having been around longer and hosting the jam, you may have already had this discussion. However, your replies tell me you see my suggestion as a punishment to non voters.

    @ParodyKnaveBob has understood - the intention is to remove the current advantage non voters have, not penalises non-voters. Anyone who chooses not to, or cannot, vote will not be penalised as their score is maintained. There is no incentive to vote just to get a bonus score because there is no bonus.

    Of course, saying everyone else gets points if you don’t vote could be interpreted as a penalty.... but that’s what happens when you vote currently. At least voters and non-voters would be equal if the suggestion was implemented. Especially since my suggestion is to take the average rank as the basis for each game’s proxy vote ranking, theoretically preserving the intended ranking.

    That said, I've just mucked around with the data of last Jam and have concluded my earlier suggestion isn't the right fix. It ends up that the rich get richer while the poor get poorer. The gap between scores increase when adding a dozen 'assumed rankings' by including the non-voters. So any small corrections to the non-voter advantage are undone by this effect anyway. There is also the issue if top 3 are ranked, but the rest are blank, is that a vote or non-vote? I'll leave it for now but if I get inspired I'll be back!
     
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  29. FrostyCat

    FrostyCat Member

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    I would like to propose weekly or bi-monthly Jam-affiliated practice activities between Jams to help prepare for one. This keeps the forum section relevant for the time between sessions, encourages exploration and routine practice, and helps reduce unprepared entrants.

    Here are some examples of activities I would like to see:

    Pre-Jam Practice: Asynchronous Timing
    • Beginner Challenge: Learn to use alarms, timelines and asynchronous dialogs, then use it to prepare an animated demo.
    • Non-Beginner Challenge: Write or integrate a tweening framework, then use it to prepare an animation.
    Pre-Jam Practice: Data Serialization
    • Beginner Challenge: Download a JSON-based or CSV-based data set online, and use GML to answer 10 queries of interest.
    • Non-Beginner Challenge: Create a simple game, then implement a game save mechanism or level editor for it.
    Pre-Jam Practice: Genre Switch
    On your own, create an engine prototype for a genre you have not done before or is underrepresented in your portfolio. You may skip the menus if it is not part of the gameplay.

    Pre-Jam Practice: Menu Prototype and Git Practice
    Create an open-source menu framework and push it to GitHub or another public Git repository.

    The latest Jam was particularly disappointing to me in the number of straight, mindless platformer and top-down shooter tutorial rips. The same has been a persistent trend in previous Jams, where these genres have mostly become go-to crutches for half-assed, off-theme, unprepared submissions. This reinforces the incorrect notion that GM can't do anything else, and it is an indictment on mainstream GML education's inability to produce students capable of original work. A lot of it stems from inadequate and under-diversified practice, and I hope the Jam has room between sessions to help fill in skill and experiential gaps that mainstream tutorial-centric learning fails to cover.
     
  30. curato

    curato Member

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    Not sure if you can shoe horn that into the jam format, but those are some excellent suggestions for tutorial subjects. Too often the tutorial focuses on a full mini game instead of how to do things you need to do to make a game of any complexity.
     
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  31. FrostyCat

    FrostyCat Member

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    I'm not trying to fit those into the Jam, I'm trying to fit those into the time between Jams (i.e. the time period after the review of one Jam but before the beginning of the next). This is a time that this forum section has no use for right now, but I hope to develop into an independence-building opportunity.

    And I find it questionable to call the subjects "suggestions for tutorials", as that seems to just promote more of the tutorial dependence and personal inefficacy that characterizes mainstream GML education. My point is to establish an environment where independent research, functional literacy and improvisation are encouraged over following scripted instructions. More scripted hand-holding won't help.

    Sure, some of the under-documented material like JSON, alarms, timelines and asynchronous actions could use some more coverage, but I refuse to bow to this "everything is a tutorial" fad. I'll describe how they're used and leave it at that, users would have to think for themselves what the use for them is. If they choose to act like illiterate do-everything-for-me sheep, there won't be room in the prep sessions for them and it'll be their loss. It's a space reserved for big boys and big girls who can pull their pants up themselves.
     
  32. curato

    curato Member

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    Sounds like instructing computer science labs to me. It is a lot more overhead than a tutorial which is why you don't see much of that going on (for free anyways). Hey, if there was enough interest in teaching it and enough students that wanted to go through a class I would applaud and support the effort.
     
  33. FrostyCat

    FrostyCat Member

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    I would describe it as more like a self-organized study group over a 1- or 2-week period than a lab session. Though there would be one person/committee proposing the topic and optionally providing some starter resources, the participants are the ones driving the learning themselves, so the overhead isn't that much. Participants would produce prototypes and post the source code with a short commentary. This allows them to practice in a hands-free, free-form project under a given theme (which is the Jam in a nutshell), while also learning about variations and pitfalls from each other's work. It also transfers the focus from project-specific development to flexible/reusable development, which they can bring into Jam sessions and general development later.

    I'm working on the tweening one myself as a side exploration, so if any moderators feel like it, that could be our inaugural GMC Practice Jam. If there is enough interested in it, I can draft the rules plus material for the first event in about 3 days.
     
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  34. RichHopefulComposer

    RichHopefulComposer Member

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    @FrostyCat: I like your thinking, but I can’t really see your idea gaining much traction...anybody who’d be motivated enough to participate is probably already putting their free time into their actual games and already researching things they want to learn on their own.

    Everyone else is probably in the “don’t want to study at all, can anyone code my game for me?” category.

    It just feels like “person motivated enough to want to voluntarily work on random group assignments to learn” probably already has things they want to learn in mind, and will just focus on those subjects, studying by themselves. If we were all in the same physical location, I think your idea would be more appealing, because we’d all be socializing together in person, which lends some fun and excitement to group assignments like that. Online it just feels a little dry to me...

    Hopefully I’m wrong, though. It’s definitely an interesting idea, and I wouldn’t object to having a big diverse collection of code snippets from GMCers all in one place. It’d definitely be a good learning resource... I just barely have enough spare energy to work on my actual game, let alone contribute to something like this. Hopefully others here have more energy to burn than I do!
     
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  35. Relic

    Relic Member

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    I would echo @RichHopefulComposer thoughts on this. It's an argument whether learning should be just in case, or just in time. The former is the traditional method in which education systems run, with student being delivered content timed to the instructor. Most of us here, and definitely those with no educational background in code or game design, have probably got to where we are through a series of overscoped projects that failed, but found what we needed to know to do the beginning of those projects when we needed to. Nothing is more motivating that deciding "I want to make this thing" and then finding out how to go about it - that's the just in time approach. That's also where the programming help side of the forum comes in too.

    I'll be interested to see how it works out if you do commit.

    I certainly share your desire to improve the GMC Jam attendance. I wasn't around for it, but was shocked to see the earliest GMC Jams had 80 ish entrants. Sure, there are other jams out there, held pretty much every week of the year, but this is where I called on when I was looking for help to understand why my characters were getting stuck in walls. The GMC is my chosen game development home and the GMC Jam something I look forward to now.
     
  36. ParodyKnaveBob

    ParodyKnaveBob The Laughing Rogue

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    Well, my intermediate self is certainly up for joining a longer, more relaxed, quasi-group-learning-on-a-theme thing. Jams are cool for experimenting, in theory, but in practice, everything's too rushed to try much of anything new (successfully) unless you're already an expert (and/or bring in tons of pre-made resources). This is a big part of why I included my source for Tic-Tac-Toe: if any GM elder wants to chuckle at how baby Bob got stuff done, go for it, lol (or advise? oh ho) -- and any beginners / other intermediates can look through mine and get ideas for their stuff, even if they've never considered the existence of terms like "Apps Hungarian" and "self-commenting code" and whatnot, and then of course ask me whatever they want, to boot.

    TL;DR - I'd join ya, @FrostyCat.
    Thanks for the generous community offer.

    EDIT: Perhaps you folks feel too crunched to be interested, and that's cool, but Mr. Law's idea here (as he more or less stated himself) is in part to help beginners who want to jam to do something more than follow a video, feel overly confident, then have no idea how to create simple quality-of-life stuff -- and to make their jam entries playable, not to mention more than reskinned video tutorials. I love the inclusiveness concept, m'self.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
  37. Dr. Wolf

    Dr. Wolf Member

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    A few, admittedly disorganized comments:

    1. Re: Participation, I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with the jam format, nor with the themes. My own non-participation in the last couple of rounds was purely due to some ongoing health issues and had nothing to do with the jam itself. I do think that, over the last several rounds, we've not done a great job of attaining visibility to the wider GM community. In the GameMaker Discord, for example, many similar events get a lot of hype, especially the GM48 Jam series, while rounds of this jam often go unmentioned. In the past, this was not the case, and we saw far greater levels of participation from those who were not (previously) forum regulars. If we want to increase participation, we need to do better at connecting with other parts of the GameMaker community, and at bringing in people from outside of our regulars.

    2. Re: Kinds and quality of games being produced, well...before I comment, let me just say that, as someone who isn't into platformers or the other typical Nintendo-inspired game types, on a personal level, I'd love to see more variety in what gets produced. Nonetheless, being realistic, I suspect we will always see a lot of entries in those genres, not only because they lend themselves quite well to small scopes, but also because (I suspect) a lot of our users have adopted GameMaker with an eye towards producing things in those genres,and are not particularly interested in making something else. We could do a bit better, sure; that'd probably require both attracting more people, and perhaps adjusting our attitudes a bit to make sure that people who produce less popular (by the community's standards) genres don't get discouraged by all the platformer (etc.) fans giving higher scores to the platformers (etc.) in the voting, but I don't think it's realistic to hope for a complete overturn of the jam's genre distribution anytime soon.

    3. Re: Weekly or bi-weekly challenges, it's a neat idea! I don't think there'd be any harm in trying it out and seeing what kind of participation it gets.
     
  38. Toque

    Toque Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Posts:
    1,012
    Having four jams a year can be a time commitment. I wonder if people think “ I will skip this one and do the next one in a couple months?” Obviously more times gives more opportunity.

    Has it always been been 4 jams a year? Was there a time where there was 2 or 3 jams a year?
    I’m not sure I can keep this four jam a year commitment myself. I might do every other one.
    Im not advocating any changes.

    I thought there was some variety. I think with lower numbers there is a higher probability of the feeling of less variety. I had never made a platformer I thought the jam would be a fun way to learn and try one.

    I was thinking of buying a big sound pack and having it as a prize in the next jam for first time jammers. But if it attracts new users and there are lots of lower quality entries I think reactions will be negative. I do not wish to be tarred and feathered.


    Thanks @Misty for the adding Thursday suggestion. It makes my jam participation more realistic. Thursday and Fridays are basically my only days to play.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
    ParodyKnaveBob and Misty like this.
  39. Yal

    Yal GMC Memer GMC Elder

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2016
    Posts:
    3,570
    It's pretty creepy to realize people were worried about the lack of participation two years ago... did the idea about sending out mails to people when the jam drew close ever come to fruition and/or get dismissed because of GDPR? I didn't even know about this jam because of not being active for a couple months, and every notable GMCer I know not being into jamming.


    Another random idea, would it be possible to co-host the jam on Itchio or something for bonus attention? I've seen a recurring Godot jam there, so it definitely seems like they're OK with you postulating a rule to limit it to just one engine, and the site is gradually shaping up to have a bunch of traffic (its biggest jam, GMTK Jam 2, had over 1500 entries, if I recall correctly). And since it would be possible to have Itchio users that didn't make entries vote, it could help with the "voting just hurts you" issue and the lack of votes due to low attendance.
    ...just an idea, though. Not sure if it would ruin the sense of camaraderie and familiarity we have for the GMC jam at this point, but it dying off entirely wouldn't exactly help. :p
     
    Toque and ParodyKnaveBob like this.
  40. Siolfor the Jackal

    Siolfor the Jackal Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2016
    Posts:
    755
    Why do we only sometimes have the forum bammer advertising the jam? I feel like that always helps awareness.
     
    Yal, RichHopefulComposer and Toque like this.
  41. dadio

    dadio Potato Overlord Forum Staff Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Posts:
    217
    I think it's Mark that adds that forum banner (he's the only one of us involved in the Jam running that has full mod priveleges) *but* there seems to be some quirky issue (I think) where sometimes the banner only shows up if you are *not* signed in (ie: you can see it if you're here as a guest). I'll mention it to him again and confirm what's up with that.
    @FrostyCat: I share your concerns about both the variety (low) and the participation (low) and you have some interesting ideas there...
    *but* I think a lot of what is "the problem" here with the GMC Jam numbers/quality going down has nothing to do with people's coding ability (or lack thereof) but has much more to do with most people simply not having the (free) time to 1. participate (that;s me) and 2. burn their brains coming up with complex code/unique ideas for these Jams (most peeps just like throwing something together.) I think there's a lot of relatively new faces/beginners in these Jams now too... so there's that strong trend for simpler (platformer etc.) games.
    I applaud your enthusiasm for getting people to better theselves... but I don't think your proposal will really achieve what you hope.
    I expect participation would be low - would like to be proven wrong tho.
    I think it really comes down (for most people) to a lack of time (which makes it unlikely they would have time for pre-Jam sessions.)
     
    Yal and ParodyKnaveBob like this.

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