The GMC Jam Suggestions Topic

Discussion in 'GMC Jam' started by Alice, Feb 13, 2017.

  1. TonyStr

    TonyStr Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2017
    Posts:
    25
    hey, I'd just like to say that the /r/gamemaker discord server (well over 500 people) is happy to promote the jam! I think it would be great for the jam if you reached out to the admins, more poeple would only make the jam better! (discord link: https://discord.gg/By6u9pC )
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
    Detective Pixel and Juju like this.
  2. Kousenai

    Kousenai Furry Flaebae

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2016
    Posts:
    72
    Hey, so, GMC Jams are cool and all, but I haven't kept track of the forums for a while and apparently the 'handicap' part of the Jam has been removed now...?
    Why were they removed? I think it was a really cool part of the jam that made the games interesting. Not being able to use the mouse, jump, have enemies, use text, or things like that just encourages everyone taking part in the Jam to think outside the box a bit with their game design/gameplay.
     
    TonyStr and Shawn Basnett like this.
  3. Dr. Wolf

    Dr. Wolf Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2017
    Posts:
    66
    I don't think I can agree with this. My feeling is that any restriction that stands to reduce the quality of the finished games is bad, because:
    -People may want (or need, in order to justify spending the time and effort!) to make some further use of their Jam projects, whether as portfolio items or even the basis for smaller commercial releases.
    -People may feel reluctant to share projects that don't meet a certain absolute minimum standard.
    -There may be less support during the judging phase if the games aren't as fun.
    -Restrictions encourage "good-for" thinking ("good for a game with these restrictions," "good for a jam game," "good for a Game Maker game," "good for an indie game," etc.), which is already a problem with the jam format in general.
     
  4. Kousenai

    Kousenai Furry Flaebae

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2016
    Posts:
    72
    Well, I actually think that it kind of makes a game unique therefore more fun... but, I see the point in your view, so, fair enough. ^^
     
    TonyStr and Shawn Basnett like this.
  5. Pere

    Pere Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2017
    Posts:
    20
    [Suggestion] Explain exactly how the winner is chosen in the main forum post

    It's not clear how exactly the winner is chosen.

    In a rating system where the votes aren't quantitative (0-5 like ludum dare), but rather as a list (1st, 2nd, 3rd), where not everyone votes the same amount of entries, it's hard to calculate who should be first, and it could be done in different ways, resulting in different flaws:
    • If the votes are reverted (1st of 10 would be 10 points for that entry, 2nd would be 9...) and added up, then the games with more overall votes will have an advantadge.
    • If the votes are merely added up (1st gives 1 point, 10th gives 10...) and the first winner is the game that has less points and the last is the one with more points, then the games with less amount of votes and votes of people that voted less entries, will have an advantadge.
    • if its done by the average, then that would be fair as long as all games are voted many times
    • etc.
    Depending on the way used, the strategy for making your game might change: for the first one you should focus on getting a lot of attention with your title, so a lot of ppl play ur game; with the second that would leave you worse off....

    So, my point is, the exact way the winner is chosen should be explained, not only in the voting post, when the jam ends, but rather in the main post, so ppl can take it into account when making the game.

    Thank you ;)
     
  6. Cloaked Games

    Cloaked Games Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2016
    Posts:
    778
    This debate has already been over, at any rate, here is the text from the old voting topic:

    "How results are decided?
    (the information here is not necessary for voting; it's mostly for people who want to understand how votes are calculated to produce the final results)

    When it comes to the games ranking, the voting system used is 1/(rank + 1). It means for each ranking an entry appears in, it will get a score of 1/(rank + 1), and no score for other rankings.

    When it comes to best-of awards, the winners must have gathered the most votes in their respective category. If multiple entries have the most votes, the Jam host may choose one or more entries among them to win the award. This is to avoid situations when e.g. 5 entries tie for 2 votes for the best devlog, and they all win; at the same time, it's still the community that decides which entries get the most votes.

    The best reviewer is chosen arbitrarily by the Jam host, but the community opinion may be taken into account (just not in a "systematic" way)."

    It's not that important. If you have the best game, you'll win. If you have something in the middle the results start getting fuzzy, but just because the ability to rank games is so limited. They're often so close together it is really just an average. Don't stress about the scoring too much.
     
    RichHopefulComposer likes this.
  7. Ralucipe

    Ralucipe Member GMCJam Champ

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2016
    Posts:
    104
    I have a question about how the voting system works...

    In each Jam's voting topic, the following statement is made:

    Forgive me if I'm missing something blatantly obvious here, but I cannot wrap my head around how I'm giving stronger support to my top 3 by voting for more games. It appears to me that the amount of 'credit' given to a game is fixed and has nothing to do with the quantity of games that I rank. In fact, because voting for more games gives them points that they otherwise would not have, it seems to me that casting more votes actually weakens my top 3 picks because it boosts their opponents.

    I have no problems at all with how the voting system works - it's just this one statement that I read every Jam that doesn't make sense to me.
     
  8. Alice

    Alice Toolmaker of Bucuresti Forum Staff Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2016
    Posts:
    676
    Ah, sorry about that, during the first Jams there was actually a little different system.

    Right now, we use pretty simple 1/(rank+1) system, which means that 1st place gets 1/2 score (0.500), 2nd gets 1/3 (0.333), 3rd gets 1/4 (0.250) and so on. Every unranked entry gets plain 0 points. In that regard, no matter how many entries you rank, you give the same score to your top picks.

    Earlier, we used so-called "normalised" 1/(rank+1) system, which more or less worked the same way except for one thing - the unranked entries were treated as if each got the next rank after the last entry. So, if you rated 10 games, then the 10th entry got 1/11 score (0.091) and all the unranked ones would get 1/12 score (0.083).

    Well, technically speaking, there was an extra step of subtracting the unranked entries score from all the ranked ones. So, the first entry would get 0.500 - 0.083 = 0.417, then the second 0.333 - 0.083 = 0.250, then the third 0.250 - 0.83 = 0.167 and so on till the 10th entry, which would get 0.008 score. Though whether the unranked entries scores were subtracted or not didn't change the overall standings. It was more so that unranked entries would stay at 0 points, which is more intuitive than a bunch of entries magically getting a score of 0.083, even though the reviewer didn't really like them.

    Somewhere along the way, the normalised ranking was ditched in favour of the regular one. First, because the normalised ranking was particularly "punishing" for 3rd places in typical 3-rank Jam (if reviewer only rated top 3, they'd give the first place measly 0.050; it's 4-5 times less than what would be given with full ranking). Second, because the problem the normalised was trying to address - some people would play only several games or so and they would rank their least favourite entry "above" all the ones they didn't play - that problem turned out to be less relevant during recent Jams. Now it seems most reviewers try out all the entries at least a little (even if they don't rank all the way), so such a measure is not as necessary anymore.

    So yeah, you are correct; that remark was a leftover that somehow slipped our radars until now. I'm going to remove it from the current voting topic, so that maybe it won't cause any more confusion. ^^'
     
    Ralucipe likes this.
  9. Misu

    Misu The forum's immigrant

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2016
    Posts:
    619
    Anouncement:

    I was talking with Alice by the end of the previous jam about the jam player; Im currently working on a new one that is more up to date. Hopefully ( if we dont get the sooner dates picked) might be able to finish it before this next jam.

    Anyway, I'd like to know your opinions and suggestions regarding the jam player itself and any possible thoughts about a new jam player in general. Please do share your ideas :)
     
  10. curato

    curato Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2016
    Posts:
    156
    The main thing with the player that stuck out to me was that I could go through and rate each game but then I had to go back through everything and look and manually pick and rate everything. It would have been nice if it would have automatically ranked the games and then let me tweak if I disagreed.
     
  11. Misu

    Misu The forum's immigrant

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2016
    Posts:
    619
    My plans for this new jam player includes a new rating system that is base on scale bar that can range (depending on your custom choice). This substitutes the 5 choice of quality system the previous player has since 5 options per 4 clasifications (not counting the overall) only limits up to 20 vary scores out of ton of entries that can easily get the same score with one another. Of course that this is a preference so some people are use to this. The new system allows you to customize the scale rate a bit so it fits the range standards you prefer. It comes with 4 typical categories (as usual) and once all four are triggered, it automatically sets the overall score for you on the left corner. I kind of understand where you going through when it comes to tie breaking scores. Ill think of a way to easily handle this situation. Ig any of you think there is a good way to perform tie breaks easily, im open to knowing. :)
     
  12. dadio

    dadio Potato Overlord Forum Staff Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Posts:
    207
    Just an observation/thought before the next Jam train starts rollin'...
    Last few Jams have seen activity/chit-chat split across Discord, YMMV, but I don't really think this is a good thing.
    I think it scatters focus and feedback and makes it harder to keep track of what exactly went on in each Jam.
    I understand that some folks prefer the format of a Discord chat, but all that Jam banter is kind of lost to the sands of time...
    whereas on a Forum (such as this) there is a much more permanent record of everything that went down.
    When you slip on da ol' nostalgia glasses in a year or 8 for a trip down that Jammy memory lane, it's nice to have everything still there, in one place.
    Just thought I'd bring it up before the Hype kicks off.
    (Here's hoping we get a tasty Theme!)
     
  13. Micah_DS

    Micah_DS Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2016
    Posts:
    454
    Yep, I'm all for switching back to just the forums for the GMC jams. I feel like the Discord has done a little more harm than good. I've noticed some people having to cross post or repeat themselves to make other's aware of things, and the timeline is just a bit more of a pain to follow and look back on when it's split between two places.

    The only thing I really like about the Discord are the separate channels for team building and coding help, but I don't know if they're all that necessary really, and even if they are deemed useful, something similar can be achieved here with another thread per jam anyway.

    I guess being able to actually 'chat' is the main upside, but in reality I feel like that's a downside, because you'll likely be pretty inefficient if you're trying to chat and make your game at the same time. But posting a progress update every now and then makes more sense to stay focused, and it also makes for far less 'fluff' banter for people to wade through, so that's why I find it better to just stick to the forums, as it feels like it's really more jam-friendly ( or something ). Just my view though, of course.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2019
    dadio likes this.
  14. HayManMarc

    HayManMarc Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2016
    Posts:
    840
    I agree.
     
    dadio likes this.
  15. Misty

    Misty Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2016
    Posts:
    961
    4 days jams.

    I feel like GMC jams have become more like that episode of Spongebob where everything is "Xtreme". Like a 3 day jam is like some kind of xtreme thing to punish us with no sleep till we turn purple.

    What about a 4 days jam which is more calm and casual. Not the big city rush but more like a just a honorable competition of sorts.
     
  16. The Sorcerer

    The Sorcerer Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2019
    Posts:
    191
    For once I agree with Misty.

    I'd even go as far as to make it a week. I understand the whole 72 hour rush thing. But that doesn't really do it for me.
     
  17. Micah_DS

    Micah_DS Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2016
    Posts:
    454
    The previous GMC Jam was 10 days long, but I guess there wasn't a whole lot of discussion on how everyone thought that went.
    From what I could tell, it didn't really seem to change the quality of games much, nor did it encourage a bigger turnout.

    I think it's best to keep the 72 hour jam time for most jams, to encourage a proper 'jam' where developers are forced to use their time wisely, but then maybe have an experimental time frame every once in a while.
    I'd really like to try a 4 day jam, but I wouldn't like to see it replace the usual 3 days.
     
  18. Misty

    Misty Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2016
    Posts:
    961
    I disagree.

    10 days may be too much. But 4 days just right.


    Also, one more thing I would like to suggest. An upgrade to the Jam Player is needed...I cannot copy paste the name of jam games and their authors. Having to retype it and memorize each one gives me a headache.
     
  19. Toque

    Toque Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Posts:
    762
    People seemed quite divided about jam length. It was good they are open to try different lengths. Maybe 4 days is the magic length.....? But posts that I can remember wanted shorter vs the week.
     
    Misty likes this.
  20. CardinalCoder64

    CardinalCoder64 Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2017
    Posts:
    101
    To go along with what @Micah_DS said, honestly I quite enjoy the 3-day time crunch. I see it as more of a challenge, ya know? Forces me to do things in a timely manner, get as much done as possible in a single time frame that way you actually feel the progress. Often times if I don't set a deadline for myself, my mind drifts off and I end up with an unfinished project.

    I understand the demand for an extended time length though. About 1/3 of the entries I play seem somewhat unfinished. Not just in graphics, but in objective as well. Some games, I have no clue what I'm doing, while others are straight-forward.

    I could easily segway into game design here but it's the wrong forum for that and my sleep takes priority.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2019
    Micah_DS likes this.
  21. Siolfor the Jackal

    Siolfor the Jackal Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2016
    Posts:
    635
    Look, if four days became the norm, you'd probably just ask for five days as the new magic number after a while. Where will it end?
     
  22. Misty

    Misty Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2016
    Posts:
    961
    I dont see what is the big tragedy about it.

    Let's say it is 4 or 5 days. All it is is more peace of mind and healthier people not stressed by staying up the late hours.
     
  23. Siolfor the Jackal

    Siolfor the Jackal Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2016
    Posts:
    635
    I don't think the stress is really going to end with just on extra day. But I'm pretty good at managing my stress levels and staying calm and happy so it's not really an issue for me.
     
    Toque likes this.
  24. Dr. Wolf

    Dr. Wolf Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2017
    Posts:
    66
    Difficulty is, once you get beyond the amount of time that can be a sustained crunch, you start to lose the special momentum of working in a single rush; in the previous jam, we had a longer deadline, but fewer, not more, submitted games, and no apparent benefit to quality. You also risk creating more disadvantage for people who don't have a whole lot of time to put in or can't hold a long crunch, and will be imposing a larger burden on those who approach the jam with a competitive mindset and feel like they have to put as much work as possible into their games.

    The longer period last time was an interesting experiment, but I think three days is just about right.
     
    Micah_DS and Siolfor the Jackal like this.
  25. Siolfor the Jackal

    Siolfor the Jackal Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2016
    Posts:
    635
    Yeah, that 10 day one I was waaaay too relaxed. Didn't even start until the second or third day and sort of still took my time through the rest of the jam. Only at the end of the last day I was scrambling a little bit to add things and fix what problems came up.
     
  26. Toque

    Toque Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Posts:
    762
    Short Jams force you to think design and make a game differently than you normally would.

    It’s a healthy stress.

    If you never push yourself you will never change from the spot you are comfortable with.

    I don’t mind if they experiment with jam lengths but the bulk of them with three days is ok with me.

    Stress is something we do to ourselves not the jam.
     
    Micah_DS and Siolfor the Jackal like this.
  27. Siolfor the Jackal

    Siolfor the Jackal Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2016
    Posts:
    635
    I think if the stress is too much for you, then either you need to perhaps team up or learn to manage your stress levels a bit better. Or maybe jams just aren't for you.
    Some people are already making some crazy impressive stuff in 3 days in all these jams. It juat takes practice I guess, which is what these short jams are good for!
     
    Toque, HayManMarc and Micah_DS like this.
  28. GameDevDan

    GameDevDan Get Gyro Boss DX Moderator GMC Elder

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2016
    Posts:
    136
    My view is: the jam was made longer to encourage more participation / reduce people quitting half way through. It didn't work. That jam got the least entries since about the original 2nd or 3rd jam (26). So it might as well just stay 3 days. I think if people don't have time to make a game in 3 days, they probably won't do it in 4 or 5 either.
     
    Micah_DS and Siolfor the Jackal like this.
  29. Alice

    Alice Toolmaker of Bucuresti Forum Staff Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2016
    Posts:
    676
    I agree that we better keep it at 3 days. I don't regret trying out the 10-days timespan - it gave a better idea how these kinds of Jams work out - but in the end it seems like the 3 days is the sweet spot between the room for polish and diminishing returns.

    Actually, it's something I plan to work on pretty soon, maybe even right after I'm done with reviewing all entries. One thing I'd like to include in particular is ability to write custom voting post templates.
    (the other is ability to define own rating criteria and orderings, and yet another is displaying these thumbnails)
     
  30. FrostyCat

    FrostyCat Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2016
    Posts:
    3,858
    A lot of Jam entries are unfinished because their entrants are taking ideals from their regular-length development into Jam-length development. Yes, there's room for learning from mistakes for the first time, and there are always first-timers. But bending the rules just because of a few whiners who can't take the heat is just soft.

    Having said that, I do believe there are internal contradictions in the 3-day format Jam, given the way it is judged and set up. For example, judging by devlog and storyline has been a mostly pointless exercise, and the fraternization that the organizers seem to want just doesn't work under that timeframe, at least not for me.

    At the end of the day, it all depends on what the Jam's organizers are looking for. They should give the 10-day another chance if they want more of the following:
    • More conventional, fuller-length entries
    • Less superficial communication during the Jam
    • Fewer abstentions and drop-outs due to single-day time conflicts
    Otherwise they should stay with the 3-day format with its characteristic all-out pace of development.
     
  31. dadio

    dadio Potato Overlord Forum Staff Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Posts:
    207
    The Jam's organizers are all different people...
    so what they are looking for is usually slightly different depending on who happens to be running whatever Jam.
    Regarding your bulletpoints tho...
    • More conventional, fuller-length entries - I don't think any Jam host to date wants conventional longer games, we all want short, experimental, original concept games more than anything I think.
    • Less superficial communication during the Jam - I don't think communication *during* the Jam is any real concern, but constructive feedback on final entries is a big part of what this Jam is all about.
    • Fewer abstentions and drop-outs due to single-day time conflicts - The 10 day experiment had a much lower turnout than usual, so more days doesn't seem to be the answer to this problem.
    I think if I ever get to be the Jam host again (possibly whenever Dan throws in the towel) I'd like to try at least 1 Jam at a slightly different length, of 7 days, but I'd generally be inclined to think the current 3 day/weekend format is the best fit for this Jam.
     
  32. O.Stogden

    O.Stogden Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2018
    Posts:
    181
    In my opinion the whole point of a game jam is to dedicate the duration of the game jam to game development.

    Like has already been stated, if you made it 7-10 days long, some people with more free-time during weekdays will have a much larger advantage, being able to dedicate significantly more time to it than others. However most people are in a position to dedicate a weekend to it.

    This was my first game jam, and yes, I found it stressful. Which just means I may not participate in one again now I've tried it out, or I may go into it with another developer so we can share the load, but I wouldn't ask for rules to be changed just because I found it difficult, that is kind of the entire point of a game jam, to make a game in a very short time frame.

    Ludum Dare is only 48-72 hours long and is hugely popular, so I think it's the generally accepted time frame for a game jam.
     
  33. HayManMarc

    HayManMarc Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2016
    Posts:
    840
    Just to add my penny's worth...

    I think three days is perfect. Three days doesn't seem to intrude so much on my life as 10 days. Also, a participant will either make time or they won't no matter how long it is. I believe 72 hours offers the most benefit from the experience.

    The 10-day experiment was nice to have the extra time, but it got to be a bit grueling on those last couple of days as it seemed to drag on. With 3 days, it's on and over with, nice and quick, and we can get back to our regular lives.

    The people who want to do a game jam will either set aside the time to do so, or they won't. If they don't set aside the time for it, they will need to be very organized, very good at coding, or very good at scoping tiny, or all the above. If they can't, that's on them and they'll learn or burn, as the saying goes. I've been doing these jams for a long time now and I'm still trying to come to grips with these factors. Some of my efforts are better than others, but my knowledge peg moves up a notch each time, and I'm very thankful to the jam and the voting/reviewing jammers for my inclusion!

    The time crunch in 3 days is what it's all about, really. The jam teaches you the importance of scope and planning extremely well, for those open to the experience. And for those who take the jam further and offer votes and reviews, they benefit from playing the games by seeing what worked and what didn't in others' games. In my opinion, it's a great learning tool for everyone, whether you're staying in your comfort zone and making yet another platformer, or stretching out with an experimental idea.

    However, these short jams are not for the faint of heart, and perhaps that gets lost on some people. It takes more work than one realizes if they've never done one. But that is part of the learning experience.

    I mean, after all, when you stop to think about it from a distance, you're trying to make a complete game in 3 freakin' days! Impossible!...and quite impressive when it's actually pulled off!
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2019
    dadio, Siolfor the Jackal and Toque like this.
  34. Misty

    Misty Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2016
    Posts:
    961
    It's unfair to compare my 4 days idea to the 10 days one. I agree the 10 days one was too long. 4 days is a lot closer to 3 days than 10 is. Using the 10 days jam as evidence my idea wont work is completely unfair.
     
  35. FrostyCat

    FrostyCat Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2016
    Posts:
    3,858
    The main problem is not the face value of the number of days in your suggestion, but the attitudes underpinning your suggestion. You could have suggested 3.5 days and the objection would still hold water.

    Let's look at the posts you made:
    Guess what I said to myself after reading them.

    "That's just plain soft."

    And given the responses that came after them, I'm sure other Jam entrants are saying more or less the same.

    For the same reason I don't work on graphically intensive entries because that isn't my strong suit, Jam entrants should not work on time-intensive games because that's everyone's weak suit by definition. They should adapt their actions to the constraints of the competition, not the other way around. If they designed their entries within their means, they would have assumed a timeframe of at most 12 hours of regular-paced dev work, and staying up late wouldn't be in the equation. If they overplayed their hand and that resulted in all-nighters or abandoned entries, just call it a lesson well taught and leave it at that.

    Accepting your suggestion creates an obvious slippery slope. It emboldens people who kick and whine until the rules are bent in their favour. It keeps them in their comfort zone and out of their learning zone. And if the failure-to-launch crisis in the Millennial generation is anything to go by (and you certainly behave like be a fine specimen of that), the kind of coddling you advocate is the last thing we need around here.

    The Jam ceases to have value the instant it caves to the whims of unsportsmanlike conduct and emotional fragility.
     
    NeonBits likes this.
  36. Misty

    Misty Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2016
    Posts:
    961
    I am a soft person. You are frosty, ice is hard but snow is soft, so idk.

    If it was ancient Greece I'd be athens, you'd be sparta. I feel no shame in being soft, in fact I am proud of it. We live in this rap music macho culture where its a race to prove just how hard people can be...why it is I have no idea. If I wanted to be a Spartan I'd go play halo, but I got bored of Halo tbh, Halo 5 was the last Halo for me.

    I've seen your posts. You are very aggressive towards newbies. I'm all for freedom of speech, you can be as hard as you want, as aggressive as you want, just don't give me that "Back in my day, Abe Lincoln walked 20 miles to go to school" speech.

    I am not Abe Lincoln nor am I responsible for this current generation's weaknesses either. I believe in balance, not too hard or too soft. If you want to do the whole "back in my day" argument well, back in my day there was no computers, being overworked on a computer is not natural or healthy, working 3 days on a farm is not working 3 days on the computer, both are hard labor, but the difference is working of the farm is exercise and working on the computer is heart disease. But if people want to John Henry over and over and make a great game in 3 days so be it, you are faced with the choice of making a very simplistic game or a game that is missing features (audio, sound, variation in levels/enemies) as with many of the games. And the comparisons to how the ten days game "proved" me wrong is simply ludicrous and unfair, 10 days is not close at all to 4 or 3 days.

    Second its not "unsporting" or "emotionally fragile" to suggest this, its just in the interest of bodily health and quality improvement of games, I have heart problems and sometimes I start to get dizzy when at the computer too long. Nothing unsporting about it as I'm not asking for a special handicap or certain privileges, I want the rules to be applied universally and to all participants so that nobody gets an unfair advantage and a level playing field.
     
    NeonBits likes this.
  37. NeonBits

    NeonBits Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2017
    Posts:
    374
    How bout forgetting the competition and just try to make games :p
     
  38. Misty

    Misty Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2016
    Posts:
    961
    Without game jams there would be no society. It would be like no Christmas or Easter.
     
  39. NeonBits

    NeonBits Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2017
    Posts:
    374
    You mean no taxes, no bills, no conflicts and gifts and chocolates all year long?!
     
  40. Misty

    Misty Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2016
    Posts:
    961
    I'm all for reducing taxes, bills, and conflicts. But can't have a game jam everyday. If game jam is every day...then no day will be game jam.
     
  41. O.Stogden

    O.Stogden Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2018
    Posts:
    181
    This will be my last post here as I think people may get murdered.

    Just to say that game jams are not for everyone. The whole premise of a game jam is to create a pressurised and stressful environment so people think outside the box and come up with interesting ideas or concepts that can be presented quickly in a small proof-of-concept, and perhaps in the future, be expanded upon into a full game.

    It is not standard indie game development. Most indie projects are people working on something in their spare time, that they can work on whenever they feel like, if they get stressed, they can take a week off and go back to it later.

    Game jams are probably more accurate to what it's like to work for an AAA company when your publisher just tells you that they want your game out in the next 3 months and you weren't ready for it.

    Nothing wrong with finding a game jam hard or stressful, but if it's too much, then maybe game jams aren't your thing.
     
    GameDevDan likes this.
  42. Misty

    Misty Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2016
    Posts:
    961
    Again, people are saying the 10 days jam didn't work, then using it as "proof" the 4 days won't work. Completely unfair and seems like groupthink. 10 days isn't even close to 4 days. 3 days is very close to 4 days.

    If I recall, people didn't like the 3 categories of the 10 days jam. So there might have been reasons besides just the longer time frame causing the lack of participation.
     
  43. Micah_DS

    Micah_DS Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2016
    Posts:
    454
    As I said, I'm down to try a 4 day jam if other people are, but I still think the sweet spot for a good game jam is 48-72 hours, not 72-96 hours. Many jammers have proven you can can get proper sleep, avoid negative stress, and still make a great game within 48-72 hours. Sure, many don't, but the fact is that's on them.

    It's not about becoming a hardened badass; it's about growing and learning useful skills to become a better developer so you can be more successful in the field.

    TBH, the main reason I'd even want to try a 4 day jam is so I can get 2 days to work on a game without requesting work off, so I guess I don't really want a true 4 day jam.

    On this note, I definitely favor the single theme over multiple ones. One reason being that it can be harder to know what someone was going for when reviewing their game, and three themes really just makes things over-complicated in general.
    I was really happy to see a single theme this time around and the theme was pretty good. We really just need to ensure those who are choosing a theme get guidance to pick something good.
     
    Siolfor the Jackal likes this.
  44. NeonBits

    NeonBits Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2017
    Posts:
    374
    Then it's true; videogames make people aaaangryyyyy
     
  45. NeZvers

    NeZvers Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2018
    Posts:
    306
    [Suggestion]
    To make voting more fluent and get attention to all games, my suggestion is maybe to create Google form consisting of all entries and has a download link that's hosting files so download started right away. Files archived so unpacking put them in their own folders. After playing the games fill the form with marks for visual/ music/ gameplay/ theme/ etc.
    And in the end counting points would make easier.
     
  46. Siolfor the Jackal

    Siolfor the Jackal Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2016
    Posts:
    635
    Are you aware ofthe jam player?
     
  47. GameDevDan

    GameDevDan Get Gyro Boss DX Moderator GMC Elder

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2016
    Posts:
    136
    The Zip folder features a program made by @Alice which allows you to run through all the games one by one playing them, marking a score for different categories and putting them in vote order. Then at the end it spits out clipboard data that you can paste into a GMC post in the voting topic. :)
     
  48. NeZvers

    NeZvers Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2018
    Posts:
    306
    @GameDevDan Oh Damn, I spent yesterday time to prepare to stream the games and google spreadsheet for points.
     
  49. Relic

    Relic Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2017
    Posts:
    573
    I've only done the 10 day jam and now this 3 day jam. I preferred the 10 day format because with two kids under 4 I generally can't make time on any day, week day or not - only having a couple of hours a night free.

    Actually I lied, I did a 3 day Jam once before the 10 day - but my 4 hour entry wasn't received well :oops:. Got lucky this Jam as it coincided with the kids visiting Grandma for a day.
     
  50. dadio

    dadio Potato Overlord Forum Staff Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Posts:
    207
    I've only done the 10 day jam and now this 3 day jam. I preferred the 10 day format because with two kids under 4 I generally can't make time on any day, week day or not - only having a couple of hours a night free.

    Yeah, I'm in a similar sitch these days myself. It's extremely difficult to find the time to enter these Jams properly, and a few hours at night is the best that can usually be hoped for.
    (I reeeally wanted to enter a proper game this time, but just couldn't scrape the time together to do it! Gah! Yet another joke game!)
    Catering to people in these kind of situations was part of what the 10 day experiement was trying to do...
    people who work weekends, or have to use weekends for family-time, or those who can only grab a few hours at night... in theory, the 10 day format should allow lots of those types of people to enter.
    It didn't seem to quite work out that way tho... and we had a verrry low turnout.
    I think many people were turned off by the idea that *some* people would have a huge advantage by Jamming the full 10 days (but in the end I didn't really see any evidence that that was the case!)
    But for whatever reason, 10 days "didn't work" as well as the standard 3 days.

    I feel like the best thing to do is have 3 Jams a year at 3 days a pop, and then 1 Jam a year with a longer timeframe (tho maybe just 7 days rather than 10, 10 seems a bit too drawn out.)
    I'd also be open to experimenting with a much tighter timeframe (48 or even 24 hours) to see how that went - tho I suspect that might exclude even more people and we'd get a much lower turnout again, hard to know.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice