Ping-pong, 8-ball, video poker and shmup (he plays it on TV at his room). I was planning to do dodgeball (as homage a kunio-kun) and boxing, did all the animations but dropped at the end. Don't have time to polish it and I don't want to add something I'm not happy with.Anyway, for something a little more on topic, I kept forgetting to ask about the ping pong gif, are there many more mini games like that? That looks like a lot of fun...
How ad hominem (go ahead, look it up. I'll wait.) of you. Your parenthesis gimmick is stupid. Can't wait for you to launch your "existential beat-em-up" so I can quote the player reviews discussing the repetitive and outdated combat system.Or maybe you thought that players don't need a demo to see that your game is garbage only by looking a trailer and screenshots? If so you were right.
Yea you're right I suppose. Your demo could include every single aspect of your game, while everything post-demo is just a repeat. Sort of like Ringo's combat system would be. Thank god for youtube and the people who post playthroughs, I guess....You could say all of that about a demo, too. Actually, I already did, and presented it as my main problem with demos: it's likely you can show a much broader picture of your game in a trailer in sixty seconds than you can in an hour long demo, depending on how long/slow burning your game is.
I didn't... I really wanted to, but my artist is a lazy, unmotivated slob and I'm not capable of reproducing his animation style. The first act of the game, which would be the demo, is graphically unfinished. I've been trying to find a backup artist for months, but as of yet everyone who's signed on has attempted to do the animations like him and has promptly quit. I've learned quite a few lessons throughout this process.Did you have a demo for your KS campaign? I don't see one...
I think that's actually how most people judge whether to buy games they're interested in now, and I think Let's Plays actually give a fairer representation of games than demos do, so I agree with you. Thank God for people playing games on YouTube, haha!Thank god for youtube and the people who post playthroughs, I guess.
No I haven't. The kickstarter was a setback from which I will learn. I'm already on Steam, and the game will end up there... it's just going to take longer without funding to hire a professional artist.So you've failed to make a game
No I don't. I offered some constructive criticism which you were incapable of accepting, so you decided to attack me personally. Now I'm giving the same back to you, and you're in tears over it. Come on.and now you **** on forums.
Thanks bud, but I'll be fine.I feel sorry for you, man.
I think so too, I researched it a little bit. He clearly speaks english though and, presumably, understands that he's posting on an english forum. From this I must conclude that he's doing it intentionally.@drowned: I think yeo is Russian. The closing parentheses are used kind of like emoji there. You can keep posting open brackets in response, but they're not "his gimmick," just part of Russian net culture, so I don't know how deep your responses are going to cut there.
::shrug::I think so too, I researched it a little bit. He clearly speaks english though and, presumably, understands that he's posting on an english forum. From this I must conclude that he's doing it intentionally.
If those same smiley faces have no widespread meaning to the non-English speakers of that forum? Of course I'd stop using them, what kind of an egotist wouldn't? Aside from yeo, obviously.Would you stop using smiley faces (assuming you use them) just because you were posting on a non-English forum?
I think yeo is Russian. The closing parentheses are used kind of like emoji there. You can keep posting open brackets in response, but they're not "his gimmick," just a part of Russian net culture
This is the third English-speaking forum I'm posting (tigsource and shenmudojo are others). Brackets are smiles in Russian net. But if they offend you in some way I won't use them, of course. Didn't know a thing about it actually.Rather than being intentional, I think it's just part of how he's used to typing.
Nope, they don't bother me at all. Rather, I'm happy you're using them. I love seeing little parts of other people's cultures. Always nice, to me! =)This is the third English-speaking forum I'm posting (tigsource and shenmudojo are others). Brackets are smiles in Russian net. But if they offend you in some way I won't use them, of course. Didn't know a thing about it actually.
Thanks for the announcement, pal.Started to ignore drowned. Too tired of him.
Quite frankly, it's not. There's a reason 99% of the games out there don't offer demos anymore. It's not because they all suck. Breath of the Wild and Mario Odyssey shipped without demos. Besides those obvious facts, I said that "oh, I already played the demo, I don't care anymore" is my exact experience with almost all of the demos I play. How can you call that "nonsense?" I'm an example of it happening, talking to you now, hahah!This idea that people will say to themselves "oh I already played the demo, I don't care anymore" is nonsense, quite frankly. That will only happen if the demo fails to do its job.
I probably am! No offense, I've just looked into all of this crap a lot over the last five years or so. I think my intuition is pretty well informed, here. Some reading/viewing for you:I don't think RichHopelessComposer is any more of an expert on this topic than I am (no offense)
I think it's different for every game, so its difficult to tell you without seeing your game. Basically, I think:@RichHopelessComposer
Sorry if this is derailing the topic, but you got my attention with what you were saying.
Is it also a bad idea to release open alpha "demos?" I was planning on releasing a "free demo" of my own project after completing the game's first major region as a way to get feedback on difficulty, mechanics, the overall gameplay loop, and stuff like that. But now, after reading all of your thoughts on the downsides of demos, I'm feeling a bit more reluctant. Is the psychological effect different if the player is aware that the demo they're playing doesn't necessarily represent the finished product, and that their opinions on it could actually help make it better? Is it a good idea? A bad idea? Does the opportunity to get early-ish feedback and make a more appealing product outweigh the risk of turning people off by showcasing a project's shortcomings without giving players a reason to commit?
Yes it is. Edit: Frankly.Quite frankly, it's not.
Because most of the demos you play suck. Let's do a thought experiment: give me your top three or five favorite games of the past few years, not in any order. Just your favorite few recentish games.Besides those obvious facts, I said that "oh, I already played the demo, I don't care anymore" is my exact experience with almost all of the demos I play. How can you call that "nonsense?
I couldn't disagree more. I think this is completely opposite to how it really works.If your game looks professional and is in a genre that's already well known and understood, I think a demo will probably hurt it.
But...I've already shown more data than you have. Everything you've said has been pulled out of thin air, and your Kickstarter has already demonstrated that your intuition isn't reliable. (No offense, but I could've told you you needed a demo or a much better trailer. I've probably followed hundreds of KS campaigns by now, and it's pretty easy to tell how each is going to end up.) The "anecdotal" stuff I gave you was...a bunch of people saying "yeah, it's true. I *do* skip over games because of demos."You've looked into this crap over the last five years right? So show me the data you've gathered and analyzed
My KS demonstrated that I'm new to kickstarter. I knew our trailer was weak, and I said it to my team for weeks. I simply don't have the artistic talent to deal with it. There are many aspects of the game which I would absolutely love to demonstrate but it's just not in that state. Your conclusion demonstrates that your ability to think critically is not reliable.your KS has already demonstrated that your intuition isn't reliable
This is, of course, the literal definition of "anecdotal". I can tell that you're not a scientist.The "anecdotal" stuff I gave you was...a bunch of people saying "yeah, it's true. I *do* skip over games
Then you are, also by definition, not an expert.I don't have much else to give you without rooting around and typing for you for three hours, so I'm afraid that's all you're going to get from me
So... you're not going to name for me your favorite three games of the recent past?I have nothing to prove to you
I'm not. I think you're worth less time than I've already spent on you, sorry. Let's break the conversation here, for both both of us. Good luck with your game.So... you're not going to name for me your favorite three games of the recent past?
Probably not a good example using two of the most successful game series ever, just saying.Breath of the Wild and Mario Odyssey shipped without demos.
Hey man. Get out of here with that rational, critical thinking. We're not doing that in this thread.Probably not a good example using two of the most successful game series ever, just saying.
I used them as examples because they were so critically lauded, to show that not all games that didn't have demos were trying to hide their lack of quality. Anyone who wants other examples can sub them out for the other 99% of games that release nowadays, though...almost none of them have demos anymore.Probably not a good example using two of the most successful game series ever, just saying.
Maybe a mod should come in and cut out all these replies about demos. This game looks fun and it's a shame to have most of his thread be arguing about demos.
Not necessary, I won that debate.A mod should come in here and splice all of these replies into a new thread
It's too bad "winning" debates online pays the exact same amount the Kickstarter for your incredible looking game did, eh? ;DNot necessary, I won that debate.
From what I've seen, it's a winning formula. I think a ripoff of old Sierra adventure games could work too though, if done correctly, heheh.It really is too bad. I should've just ripped off an extremely popular super nintendo game instead.
Those who can't do, teach... right? Come on. But seriously though, I never criticized his art. I think his artwork is awesome. I constructively criticized his art design (I was and still am correct about that) in a very minor way, and he flew off the handle.telling yeo he's doing his art "the wrong way," (especially when you can't draw at all yourself),
If you really are not interested in this conversation, then stop posting. Am I your dad or what?your phrasing and persistence after people have told you they're not interested in conversation has really been rubbing me the wrong way.
Yea it was, thanks for realizing slightly too late.Edit: Actually, it's cheap to insult another member's work, so sorry, drowned.
It also helps if a "Pewdipie" reviews your game. Flappy Bird would have been a flop otherwise.I don't really believe in this either. Iconclasts received 7 000 likes on release twit. And only 20K sales this far. Where're all the audience gone? Nobody really knows how it works. Game sells or don't sells.
Crossing Souls had demo and Devolver and kickstarter and everything. And they did 8K. And there're ton of examples like this.