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GMC Jam Discussion The Experimental GMC Jam #3 Discussion Thread

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FunkyB

Guest
Hey, the movement controls are WSDA in my game, Doomsday. Sorry I forgot to put that in the info : ( It is my first Jam and I did not finish until 3AM my time (1 hour before the Jam ended).
 

sylvain_l

Member
Well, I just played "Caught in the Loop". Wow, did I get caught in the loop. How do you get past the potatoe lol? I tried each of the three options.
if you look on the side of the game title it's a "made by dadio", so what you have played is his style for what I know.
have you tested the cheat code: "Alt+F4" (that's what I used, when I found me trap in the same situation)
 

ghandpivot

Member
Just uploaded my first review batch, they render for 30 min each so got two more coming up either tomorrow or later this evening if there's time.

Edit: Ok, they took an hour each and then I forgot to edit a few parameters so it'll have to rerender. I'll deal with it another day.
 
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FunkyB

Guest
if you look on the side of the game title it's a "made by dadio", so what you have played is his style for what I know.
have you tested the cheat code: "Alt+F4" (that's what I used, when I found me trap in the same situation)
I will give it a try, thanks.
 
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Sinaz20

Guest
Dr. Benjamin R. Bonheur vs Mere Moments Ago by FredFrederickson, Sinaz20

Got up to four copies.

Game looks very nice; tutorial and controls seem fine; was difficult to figure out that you had to enter the time machine.

Time loop is there? or is it just increasing enemies. Concept seems fine. Presentation was lacking sound. Story not so much there.
I'm not trying to curry any new votes ;) But I wanted to mention that the "Time Loop" aspect of it (other than using a time machine to duplicate yourself) is that each round the game records the order in which you punch and block into a tactics resource. Then in the next round the new Dr. Ben is assigned those tactics and he plays them back faithfully using a bit of AI to make sure he's punching and blocking when appropriate to how you are behaving.

Each CPU Dr. Ben is replaying their own set of tactics recorded from your previous actions.

The only exception is that sometimes a Dr. Ben may have a combo threaded up, but his reflexes falter and he fails to execute the button presses in time.

Took the time to reply publicly because it's the feature of the game I am most excited about.
 

Micah_DS

Member
Cloaked Games (from the voting topic) said:
My highscore was 47. I only played for about 30 seconds, and I don't think you can blame me.
@Cloaked Games Actually, that's twice as long as I expected anyone to play, lol! Definitely can't blame you. It's honestly a poor excuse for a game. It's hard to pump something out in just a few hours. If it happens again, I'll make a joke game instead of trying to make something 'serious'.

Actually, next time I should probably just team up with someone and make the audio for their game. I never have the first two days of the jam free anyway (and this time even my third day was unexpectedly busy). And the music I made in Pressed For Time took me between 20-30 minutes in total. I can do a lot better if I have more time to allot just to music.
 

sylvain_l

Member
I'm not trying to curry any new votes ;) But I wanted to mention that the "Time Loop" aspect of it (other than using a time machine to duplicate yourself) is that each round the game records the order in which you punch and block into a tactics resource. Then in the next round the new Dr. Ben is assigned those tactics and he plays them back faithfully using a bit of AI to make sure he's punching and blocking when appropriate to how you are behaving.
^^I wasn't sure of the replication of the jab-punch combo; kinda thought it was more my imagination
problem for me was your game crashed a lot (3 crash on 5 or 6 plays - and each time, without the GM error window, so no error message to report)
 
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Sinaz20

Guest
^^I wasn't sure of the replication of the jab-punch combo; kinda thought it was more my imagination
problem for me was your game crashed a lot (3 crash on 5 or 6 plays - and each time, without the GM error window, so no error message to report)
Yeah, sorry about the crashes. We were using Game Maker: Studio 2 Beta. I tried to crush as many bugs as I could, and this lead to scrapping a bunch of features in favor of submitting something playable. But there's something about restarting rooms/game that causes the runner to lose track of instance IDs and try and find an instance in a with() statement using a super high instance id. Fatal error would report instance ids like 107337358, even though restarting the room would wipe all instances and start afresh. Verified in debug. Odd bug that hurt our entry. Bummer.

Been saying in PMs, though, that FredFredrickson and I really like the game, so we are iterating on it for a polished release in the future.
 
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Ruhar

Guest
I'm going to record gameplay with commentary when I'm home in around 2 hours. I'll upload and link them in the voting thread shortly after. I may not get through all of the games today but I'll do so eventually.
 
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dj_midknight

Guest
So it occurs to me that I did not include good controls for my game in the readme.
Incase anyone wants to know its:

keyboard:
Q flip left, W rewind, E flip right Space jump, arrows move

gamepad:
LT flip left, B rewind, RT flip right, A jump, TS move

There are 3 levels with unique limits on which controls work and do not work.
 
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Wraithious

Guest
for some reason):
Lemth, Ixlegraw, Freddy Jones, Team NumbatByte, BionicFrog, Wraithious
Hi, watched your video of my game, i noticed you chose 'Continue' both times when you tried opening my game and wanted to point out to you that if you haven't saved the game you cant load the game if it doesnt exist. (But i should of fool proofed that part of the code) But There are definatly errors in the game as submitted including a crash if you try to use the pick and if you go into the first room that has an npc in it.
 
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TheMatrixHasMe

Guest
It's a shame to see how few people are playing and voting on the games. Hopefully the weekend could change that.
@Misty To keep it fair I'll stick to the jam versions of all games :p
I was going to say, some people are taking liberty with download links to improved versions of games. That's a slippery slope. If that's allowed I'm going to post a link of my game with improved game play and finished story.
Thanks for being fair.
 

Misty

Member
It's a shame to see how few people are playing and voting on the games. Hopefully the weekend could change that.
@Misty To keep it fair I'll stick to the jam versions of all games :p
Way I see it, you already did the review, so's it don't matter might as well play the best version. :)
 
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rui.rosario

Guest
I was going to say, some people are taking liberty with download links to improved versions of games. That's a slippery slope. If that's allowed I'm going to post a link of my game with improved game play and finished story.
Thanks for being fair.
I am personally PMing everyone that reviews my game and complains of the crash asking if they want a link to the fixed version. However, I always state that the patched version should not be considered for Jam purposes.
 
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TheMatrixHasMe

Guest
I am personally PMing everyone that reviews my game and complains of the crash asking if they want a link to the fixed version. However, I always state that the patched version should not be considered for Jam purposes.
I'm not pointing fingers at anybody and am actually okay with a minor bug being fixed if it dwarfs in proportion to the content someone created. I don't want to see anyone waste three days of work on a bug. But if we start allowing music to be added or any content that should have been fit in the three days that we were all allotted then red flags start to go up, at least for some of us I'm sure. Misty has stated since that post that they don't want it to affect the review and that's fine by me as well. But it wasn't that clear with their first post of what they were asking and I wanted to thank ghandpivot for thinking of everyone else too.
 
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rui.rosario

Guest
I'm not pointing fingers at anybody
I know you weren't, I was just pointing out that personally I had been giving links to an improved version of my game, albeit specifically stating that it should not be considered as the Jam entry
 

johnwo

Member
For the ppl complaing about action keys in my game:
The instructions was very clear you can use [space] for jump and [ctrl] for shoot, OR you can use [x] for jump and [z] for shoot! :)
The instructions are, if you read them, pretty clear about this, they also tell you other useful things about the game, life and eveything inbetween! :D
Enjoy! :)
 
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Misu

The forum's immigrant
Guys, unfortunately my reviews will have to be delayed. I have no internet connection at my house and my laptop cannot connect with any open wifis available nearby since they are weak connections that dont work. Next week I will have my phone data renovated so I can use that to upload everything. Im gonna keep working on the reviews offline and do as much as possible so for when I DO get connectivity, I will upload everything I have done. Sorry for the inconveniency.

PS: I sent this with my phone data with the 1% of speed it haves :/
 

dadio

Potato Overlord
Forum Staff
Moderator
Hafta agree with earlier comments... it's kinda unfair to play "updated" versions before the review period is over, as they have potential to unfairly skew the votes/winner results.
Fixing major crash bugs is "ok" - adding more content is not. Imo.
(For the record if I somehow manage to get the time to review/vote, it will be based soley on what's in the Jam zip).

An another topic:
Is there any chance that you reviewer people could make it clearer in your posts which games you have reviewed so far?
ie:
Games reviwed so far: x,x,x
followed by
*spoiler tagged* Game reviews
This way everyone can easily see from a quick browse where their game has been reviewed (rather than being forced to dig through spoiler tags again & again for updates).
Just a thought.
 
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Ruhar

Guest
I've actually reviewed half of the games but haven't posted anything yet. I thought I'd be able to do it in a shorter session for some reason. I'll likely have them all done by the end of the day today (California time). I was assigned an unexpected about of uni work and I've been too busy to finish. The only reason I haven't uploaded anything yet is that my software forces me to record in <= 10 minute intervals and I want to put them together in one video before posting. Sorry for the delay.
 
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TheMatrixHasMe

Guest
Hafta agree with earlier comments... it's kinda unfair to play "updated" versions before the review period is over, as they have potential to unfairly skew the votes/winner results.
Fixing major crash bugs is "ok" - adding more content is not. Imo.
(For the record if I somehow manage to get the time to review/vote, it will be based soley on what's in the Jam zip).

An another topic:
Is there any chance that you reviewer people could make it clearer in your posts which games you have reviewed so far?
ie:
Games reviwed so far: x,x,x
followed by
*spoiler tagged* Game reviews
This way everyone can easily see from a quick browse where their game has been reviewed (rather than being forced to dig through spoiler tags again & again for updates).
Just a thought.
I agree. This is my first Jam, but I've already made note of this myself as a flawed way I've done the reviews so far. Next time I'm going to put them all up at once and be done with it.
 

Misty

Member
I already reviewed all of the games on Day one. Just sitting and letting them simmer, don't want to alter the natural order of the time wave and the time loop.
 

Misu

The forum's immigrant
Everyone, I want to give some advices about voting in this jam. I just checked out the voting topic and looked through everyone's post and I have to say, this is extremely disappointing of what Ive seen from a few.

1. You don't rank a few games and leave out the rest without mentioning it at least once. You have to rank all entries at least. Its not necesary to review them all but its not cool if you only ranked some of them and exclude other entries that our fellow members worked hard during the jam phase. Your ranks are being used for the final evaluation btw. Give others some credit please.

2. Giving a high score to a game just because it is a genre you love is too subjective. I dont give higher ranks just because its a genre i prefer more than the others. I evaluate them base upon the correct criterias in a game. I need to open my perspective more on genre when playing. You have to be critical on all aspects. Video games are a general concept with a large variety of genres. Video games are not a specific kind. Dont be racist with entries.

3. Even if the game barely has something to say, say something about it at least. Thats no excuse of not giving a feedback about their entries. With just three words only, you can actually say something about it . That would at least be appreciative.
 
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Sinaz20

Guest
Thanks for the advice, Misu - but if that's the true nature of the voting, then Alice's initial post needs to reflect that. I, for one, being a first timer for the jam, thought I was doing more than was asked for. I've updated my vote post based on your polite advice, and I'll do even better next time where I should hope to have more bandwidth and less unexpected work distractions.

Also, I don't agree with dictating how other people should vote. Competitions and voting and whether you like a game or not is purely subjective. Where you lose ground with one person you don't reach, hope to make it up with someone who is in your wheelhouse. You are, after all, trying to appeal to a broader audience in a competition situation.

My 2 cents. :)
 

ghandpivot

Member
I don't think you're right @Misu . My thoughts on your different points:
1. With the new system (all unranked games share the last place) I dont think there's a big issue in not ranking a game. You say it's more important to rank them than review them, and I think it's the complete opposite. Before when I ranked all games, the rankings from 15th place and back would come out different everytime if I'd cleared the document and rewritten it a day later. A review is permanent and also way more useful for a developer than a number.
2. I think it's fair to rate the games after how much you enjoyed them, one can't really demand more than that (especially with the already low vote-counts). I play through your games to contribute to the forum and community, but also to have a good time. The game I think deserves to win the most is the game I enjoyed the most. That's why it's good to have the whole community judging the games, as all genres will be viable if done right. That being said, it's important to, in the review, mention the games qualities and flaws even if it's a genre you dislike.
3. Agreed.
 

Misu

The forum's immigrant
What if a person does not have the time to play, rate and review all entries?
I understand that case but right now, how many days left before voting ends? Its a bunch of days. You cant say you have no time now. One does their best to cover up the most as possible.
 
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rui.rosario

Guest
I understand that case but right now, how many days left before voting ends? Its a bunch of days. You cant say you have no time now. One does their best to cover up the most as possible.
I'm not stating for myself, but I'm sure that it may apply to some people. I for one wanted to review 3 games a day, however due to work I didn't manage to keep up these last few days. However tomorrow I'll probably have a break and try to advance as much as possible.

Point is, unexpected things happen, and it's better to provide feedback to just a couple entries than have the mindset that you have to provide feedback to all and end up with either less feedback for each entry or no feedback at all.
 

Misu

The forum's immigrant
Alright but just for the record, I prefer to give opportunity to those entries not mentioned. Participants worked 3 days to submit something, hoping to know what their effort pay off. Suddenly, nobody say a word or mention any posible position it stands. It is almost as if it does not exist. I hate to be that kind of person who would play all the games and only rank 10 of them or just put up the top 3 only. Even if it is for fun, its good to give a word or let them know what you think of their entry, help them understand their position as a dev. Learn from their experience.
 
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rui.rosario

Guest
Alright but just for the record, I prefer to give opportunity to those entries not mentioned. Participants worked 3 days to submit something, hoping to know what their effort pay off. Suddenly, nobody say a word or mention any posible position it stands. It is almost as if it does not exist. I hate to be that kind of person who would play all the games and only rank 10 of them or just put up the top 3 only. Even if it is for fun, its good to give a word or let them know what you think of their entry, help them understand their position as a dev. Learn from their experience.
Just for the record, I review and rank all games I play, but I don't necessarily have the possibility to play all games.
 

Misu

The forum's immigrant
Just for the record, I review and rank all games I play, but I don't necessarily have the possibility to play all games.
Ok. Its hard to tell if a person excluded games just because they are too busy to participate. This jam i got too skeptical.
 

sylvain_l

Member
Ok. Its hard to tell if a person excluded games just because they are too busy to participate. This jam i got too skeptical.
IMHO you should be more fair with reviewers^^

Participants are free to participate, using or not the theme, be it for a joke game, an half finished entry, or a well polished one with goods graphics, story, sounds and music. Using 30 min or 72/72h. They are free to spend the time and effort that fit them.

*As* forum members are free to vote, review, the number of games they wish as they wish. They are free to spend the time and effort that fit them too.
 

Misu

The forum's immigrant
Eeeeh... I don't seem to like this system... I think I should just quit reviewing for this jam. Its not my kind of workflow to see it that way. I always see it as a way of reorganizing a person's perspective in game development and learning. I mean for that perspective you provided, there shouldn't be any norms or format in this whole voting phase at all. It seems pointless in that case. I mean its messed up and not organized. Its just randomly putting stuff without accomplishing something well sorted out that justifies entries. Its a blob of spaghetti on the wall. I dunno if I really should care anymore. This just shattered my interest.
 

ghandpivot

Member
I'm rendering my final 4 review videos, it'll take 6 hours but they'll go up in the morning.

As for the jam, people are always going to put in different amounts of work to their games and reviews. I rarely ever use game maker so for me the jams are a good way to get back into it every now and then and thus I tend to give it my all using almost all the jam's hours for the project and another 5-6h for reviews (minus rendering). Other people use GMS all the time and might just see this as a way to let off some steam with a fun goofy project.
Being a good reviewer is a great gift to the community, but it's understandable that not everyone can do it. I'll be working 100+ hours a week next month, so if the jam had ended around that time I too wouldn't have had been able to vote. Such things happen.
 

Aviox

Member
I too see something left to be desired in the voting system, but I don't think the solution is to require entrants to review every game. I think that would hurt it more.
My guess is it's the low-quality/joke entries that lower the quality of the vote/review results, because people go into the next game assuming it's going to be bad (like the last several entries before it) and quit playing pretty quickly. That means a confusing mechanic, a slow start, or otherwise means voters might miss a huge portion of a quality game due to one irritating or confusing flaw.

gm(48) requires all entrants review 10 games. A system like that might be better, because on initial playthroughs, voters could just try to find the top games (and not pay attention to joke games, etc). Then they could go back through and invest time and energy on reviewing games that are more likely to be worth that investment. If I were to only review 10 games, I would probably give a lot more helpful feedback. But since there's so many to get through, I often just type few quick thoughts and move on.

Even if voters only reviewed the first 10 games they played, that should still technically cover all entries pretty well, due to RNG order for each reviewer.

If there was a higher prize pool at stake, it might then be appropriate to have a second round of voting on the top 10 entries, where everyone is expected to rank those games.
 

ghandpivot

Member
1.5 more hours of reviews are up and all my rankings are complete (see here)

This is important though:
I think it's super unfair not to reward people who vote with extra points. By voting now I reduce my chances of placing high in the jam by A LOT.
Out of my top 10 games only 1 person has voted, and only 1 more has a post with any games played whatsoever. It's to be expected that maybe 2-3 more from the top 10 will be voting before the end of the jam, but that's still very low.
The problem here is that the ones who dont vote are rewarded by placing higher up in the Jam, which is a great incentive NOT to vote. Voting takes several hours to do and you are punished for it by giving out score to everyone but
yourself.

Giving points to everyone who votes will gives us:
1. More people who are voting. If you are to win a jam you should contribute through all its phases.
2. Less punishment for voting.
3. Less "smart voting". Hypothetically, if one sees that another game always scores just one step above theirs and that their games thus are close in the rankings, it could be hard for them to give that game a free 1st place in their own ranking, knowing what a huge difference that makes since you basically put yourself in last place.

I'm not saying that people here are super competetive, nor that the jam is about winning. I'm just pointing out a, in my opinion, huge flaw which could be fixed to make the voting segment of the jam fairer and better for everyone.
 
I try not to look at any of the votes before I finish mine, and I like to hand them and the reviews in at the last minute. Give myself a chance to go back through a couple of games and give them a second chance.
 
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rui.rosario

Guest
Personally I only search for votes of my game before I am finished with my own votes. If I read any other game it is a game I already reviewed and I just read the review to see if the other person felt the same I did
 
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