Discussion The EU Referendum

[Lumenflower]

It's the big topic on every British person's lips at the moment. Whether you're for leave or remain I don't doubt that a community as intelligent as this one has some interesting perspectives. With the referendum taking place tomorrow, I thought it would be a good idea to get some opinions bashed together.

A Bit of Backstory:

The EU (European Union) is an economic and political partnership, currently comprising 28 member states, one of which is the United Kingdom. The EU has existed since the end of World War II, when it was founded to promote co-operation and help prevent future conflict. The UK has been a member of the EU since 1973. The EU and the Eurozone are distinct in that states within the Eurozone share a monetary union (they have a single, common currency - the Euro). The UK is not part of the Eurozone.

There has always been a big following in favour of the UK leaving the EU, and the current Tory government has issued a referendum to hear the public's view on whether they wish to remain within the EU or to leave. Currently the polls are suggesting a slight lean towards remain, but anything other than the final vote should be taken with a pinch of salt. Many high-ranking political officials have expressed their strong support in favour of one campaign or the other.

So there you have it - is the Game Maker Community in or out? Or are you abstaining? Please follow up with some explanation and maybe a relevant article or two

 

[Law]

Tbh I don't know ANY leave voters. And I'm east England which should be a leave leaning area. I'd be curious to see if there are any leave voters in the forum

 

[@Alex@]

Certainly Remain.

Immigration isn't a sway issue for me. Ye have around a 0.5% per year increase of population from immigration, if we can't handle that there's something else at fault. The EU offers a number of protections for workers that I feel are extremely important to keep around, though even now some people feel that the working time directive is more of a suggestion (Yes you can opt out).

The £ is going up and down with the polls, even a small difference in the polls is showing rather large changes. We'll take an immediate hit to the economy when leaving, the high street where I am is already full of boarded up shops and the oil industry here has taken a massive hit. A hit that isn't helping with the whole post-graduate job thing.


Generally I think what the EU is doing is a good thing, do I think it needs some fat trimming and restructuring ? Yes. Do I think that we should abandon the idea all together? No.

I saw a tweet this morning about all the people in the EU that we don't vote for... tweeted by Lord Ashcroft, make what you want of that.

I'm interested in peoples EU positions in relation to their position on Scottish Independence. Why are we Better Together with England but not with the rest of Europe?

 

[Rusty]

I voted leave. Obviously I voted leave. What's the point in even voting for the next Prime Minister if anything he says is going to be overruled by some unelected Brussell's official anyway?

Leaving the European Union doesn't mean outcasting ourselves into the dark waters of the atlantic ocean. We can still unite and stand together without surrendering our ability to think for ourselves. We didn't vote to join this, we weren't asked before foreign laws were enforced in our borders. We're handing money to other countries who refuse to manage themselves, we're accepting immigrants in such high numbers that soon the entire countryside will become one merged city and we can't kick out the rapists and killers among them because it might hurt their feelings. This is our home and the laws they pass overseas, the changes they make to it, they don't feel it but we do and we should have the say, the only say, in how our homes and our way of life changes.

Call me a racist or a bigot if you want but I don't see why some guy from Germany should get a better chance at making a home amongst us here more than the ones who come here from anywhere else. That's not treating people fairly. It's not treating them or us fairly. And for the economy? I challenge them to put tariffs on our islands, who among them dares to further damage their dying economies over such a petty grudge? And us? We'll boom when we get free trade with the world beyond Europe that we short-sightedly excluded. We thought of ourselves as the big rich white people, well the jokes on us now and trading bread amongst starving men isn't going to make anymore bread.

Europe can stand together outside of the European Union. But we need to see our relationships in Europe like any other relationship. When your partner stops letting you live and starts telling how to live, when you lose compromise between two people and all you're left with is one side doing all the talking, that's when you know you need to get out. The European Union is an abusive boyfriend and if you ask any domestic help service, they'll tell you exactly what to do with abusive boyfriends. They're never going to change, not while they still have power over you and the EU is never going to change for as long as we give them power over us.

Edit:
And in reply to Alex. Leaving the European Union doesn't mean losing everything we've learnt from being in the Union. It means we can decide to take the best of it with us and leave the crap it gave us behind.

My position on the Scottish Referendum was that they should stay in the United Kingdom. If they'd left then leaving Europe would have been a hell of a lot easier, so in hindsight, maybe should have been rooting for Scottish Independence, lest you be less of a pain in the ass for me now. But standing together, the Isles built an empire but divided all we managed to do is bicker amongst ourselves for thousands of years, murdered time and time again by foreigners who had the common sense to take advantage of it. I don't want to see the Isles divided again and I don't want to see Europe divided again, Channel 4 news is as close to that violent bickering as I want to get but the European Union isn't the only way for Europe to stand united. In fact, it's probably one of the worst ways I can think of.

 

[Snail Man]

Welcome to another episode of... Lawsome and Rusty debate UK politics!

 

[Law]

I voted leave. Obviously I voted leave. What's the point in even voting for the next Prime Minister if anything he says is going to be overruled by some unelected Brussell's official anyway?

we're accepting immigrants in such high numbers that soon the entire countryside will become one merged city and we can't kick out the rapists and killers among them because it might hurt their feelings

It's over the top statements like these that really tarnish the referendum debate. Surely you don't actually believe this will happen Rusty, so I ask, why do you say it?

 

[Rusty]

It's over the top statements like these that really tarnish the referendum debate. Surely you don't actually believe this will happen Rusty, so I ask, why do you say it?

Well the first one is evidently true. 55 times Britain has objected to EU law and 55 times we have been ignored. Our law and our say clearly fall on deaf ears when we deal with them.

The second one is just for impact. I don't believe that England will become a super city, not in my lifetime, but we can't keep our population growing in the way that it is. We're headed for Chinese population controls and we're getting their a little faster than I would like.

The third one is true, there are criminals out their that we can't export to their home countries because of their Human Rights (in accordance to European Courts).

Edit:
Also, this doesn't tarnish the debate at all. Suggesting that Boris Johnson is a rapist in a public debate might have been pushing it a little far though.

 

[chance]

There are good (and bad) arguments for leaving. And good arguments for remaining. But what surprises me most, is the lack of civility in the campaigns on both sides. Civility and calmness are usually hallmarks of British politics and British society as a whole. But not with this debate.

Hearing some of the speeches, and seeing some of the crowd's behavior, was more what I'd expect from Italy or Turkey (sorry). Or even worse, the USA. Seriously troubling to see this level of acrimony in British politics.

 

[Snail Man]

Just dropping in for one moment; I have heard in various places that if the UK leaves the EU, it could hasten another Scottish independence vote where Scotland might try to leave the UK but join the EU as an independent member. Just food for thought

 

[Rusty]

There are good (and bad) arguments for leaving. And good arguments for remaining. But what surprises me most, is the lack of civility in the campaigns on both sides. Civility and calmness are usually hallmarks of British politics and British society as a whole. But not with this debate.

Hearing some of the speeches, and seeing some of the crowd's behavior, was more what I'd expect from Italy or Turkey (sorry). Or even worse, the USA. Seriously troubling to see this level of acrimony in British politics.

Excuse me, but have you ever seen Britain? I mean the real Britain? The Irish do nothing but bomb each other, Wales refuses to even accept English as their main language, Scotland can't decide if they want Scotland vs London or just Glasgow vs Edinburgh and the North are too busy fighting each other to bother with the rest of them.

The Parliaments down in London might be nice and civil at their tea parties but the rest of us are still the same old savage clans we've always been. This is probably the first time that the rest of us have been considered important and the world is getting to see the real locals. The Scottish Referendum was probably worse, they were talking about building walls and shooting each other.

Edit:
That's the thing though Snail Man, the Scottish don't really even want independence, they just don't want to have to talk to England anymore. They don't have any real reason to leave, they get more capital per head from the United Kingdom than anywhere else, they benefit greatly with free education and prescriptions but like I said, the people on these Isles are still the same savage clans they always were and they'll bicker amongst themselves regardless of it it makes sense or not.

 

[Snail Man]

Talking about building walls you say?

...as an American, I find that strangely familiar.

 

[Law]

I'll do these one by one as not to get overcrowded.

Well the first one is evidently true. 55 times Britain has objected to EU law and 55 times we have been ignored. Our law and our say clearly fall on deaf ears when we deal with them.

I think we need to start at the reason you would create an EU in the first place.

Take fishing, we are fishing from the same ocean as many other countries, how can we trust other countries not to overfish? Just keep our fingers crossed and hope for the best? We need to come together with other countries and create rules that we should all stick to, and we need to create an incentive to stick to these rules. The obvious incentive is trade, we'll trade with you if you fish this amount. The EU comes from a collection of these things. I hope it makes sense now why we can't overide EU law, if we did, then there wouldn't be much purpose to the EU now would there?

Excuse me, but have you ever seen Britain? I mean the real Britain? The Irish do nothing but bomb each other, Wales refuses to even accept English as their main language, Scotland can't decide if they want Scotland vs London or just Glasgow vs Edinburgh and the North are too busy fighting each other to bother with the rest of them.

Are you doing that thing when you say things that are wrong for effect again? You are aware the troubles are over, right? And what welsh is not the main language of Wales, right?

 

[Rusty]

We can make agreements with other countries in those waters without the European Union. We know how to speak German and French and we're not idiots. We don't need a union to be diplomatic with other nations, we were practising diplomacy long before and we'll be practising it long after this shambles is over with.

And the troubles might be over but the IRA aren't. Their are still attacks and their are still protests, they're just not on the news as often because the media has decided they hate muslims now. 20 muslim protesters shouting at a military welcome home party managed to get more coverage than thousands of Irish gathering to protest Republician violence. Welsh is not the main language of anything because it's ridiculous. They have the Welsh translations of everything plastered all over the place and they had to make their police cars twenty yards longer just to make the words fit.

 

[Tirous]

Now i am not with/against leaving, nor am i vary well informed on this matter, nor the politics or culture of the EU.

But as a canadian i can say that our TV news has for the most part been about pointing at both the 'brexit' and 'US election' and saying 'what the f*ck are you guys doing, and when did everyone get so nationalistic?!?!'.

Just thought to share what little i could, farewell!
*walks out door*

 

[Law]

Wales refuses to even accept English as their main language.

Are you doing that thing when you say things that are wrong for effect again?

Welsh is not the main language of anything because it's ridiculous.

So that's a yes.

I've made a handy guide for you:

Is it WRONG?
Yes: Don't say it!
No: Say it!

That might clear a few things up. I know you're trying to produce "impact", but it's not helpful to say things you know aren't true in a debate, even for "impact".

We can make agreements with other countries in those waters without the European Union. We know how to speak German and French and we're not idiots. We don't need a union to be diplomatic with other nations, we were practising diplomacy long before and we'll be practising it long after this shambles is over with.

But the trade deals we make will either be pathetic, or be in the form of, "Follow these laws, and we'll trade with you." because that will be the only way that the governments of Germany and France, who probably won't trust us much after Brexit, can guarantee we'll follow basic guidelines on pollution and fishing. It will be the same as before, but now we don't get a seat at the table that decides the rules.

 

[Rusty]

So that's a yes.
I've made a handy guide for you:

Is it WRONG?
Yes: Don't say it!
No: Say it!

I know that Welsh is ridiculous and I know that several Welsh figures have pushed to have Welsh as the more prominent language in the country. My joke about the twenty yard cars is a reference you clearly didn't understand to Chief constable Richard Brunstrom of the North Wales police force who suggested that only the Welsh sign for police was needed on their law enforcement vechiles (which is ironic because he wanted Heddlu, which is actually the same length as the word "police").

But the trade deals we make will either be pathetic, or be in the form of, "Follow these laws, and we'll trade with you." because that will be the only way that the governments of Germany and France, who probably won't trust us much after Brexit, can guarantee we'll follow basic guidelines on pollution and fishing.

So you're saying that the only way we can make a combined effort to combating climate change and damage to our wildlife is through the European Union? What about the countries that aren't in the European Union? Are they just doomed to a life of pouring nuclear waste into their fresh water rivers because they can't figure it out for themselves?

France and Germany will still deal with an independent Britain. We're leaving the European Union, we're not invading them.

 

[Law]

So you're saying that the only way we can make a combined effort to combating climate change and damage to our wildlife is through the European Union? What about the countries that aren't in the European Union? Are they just doomed to a life of pouring nuclear waste into their fresh water rivers because they can't figure it out for themselves?

What do think the UN is? And can you image how effective it would be if countries actually HAD incentives to reduce pollution, rather than the bullcr*p "guidelines" we have now?

France and Germany will still deal with an independent Britain. We're leaving the European Union, we're not invading them.

I'm not saying they won't. I'm saying those deals will have stings attached.

 

[Rusty]

What do think the UN is? And can you image how effective it would be if countries actually HAD incentives to reduce pollution, rather than the bullcr*p "guidelines" we have now?

I'm sorry, who do you think doesn't care about polluting their own country? Can you kindly point out which of the European nations you think is made up entirely of morons? We all have incentive to reduce pollution, mostly due to the illness and eventual death it causes. We might not agree on how we can go about doing this and that's fine, that's were agreement and compromise comes into effect. That's how the better world is built, by great minds coming together to find a solution that helps both parties, not with blanket statement laws that don't take individual situations into account.

I'm not saying they won't. I'm saying those deals will have stings attached.

All deals have strings attached. That's how deals work. When you buy a Snickers bar, the shopkeeper expects you to pay 69 pence for it. It's simple give and take. Compromise. You know, how the world used to work.

 

[Law]

It's not polluting your own country. The pollution effects all countries because of how dense the EU is. Small, wealthy countries all pressed against one anther, often sharing multiple rivers, seas and biospheres. Pollution from one country effects all others. In scenarios like this, as we've seen with the climate change debate, without short term incentives to stick to guidelines, very little is done.

Those weren't the strings I described, I'm not very sure what you are trying to say there. Do you agree that we will be expected to follow some rules to get our old trade deals back?

 

[Rusty]

It's not polluting your own country. The pollution effects all countries because of how dense the EU is. Small, wealthy countries all pressed against one anther, often sharing multiple rivers, seas and biospheres. Pollution from one country effects all others. In scenarios like this, as we've seen with the climate change debate, without incentives to stick to guidelines, very little is done.

It is polluting your own country. If you pollute the river then you can't use that river. If you cut down all the trees then you can't use that forest. If you smog up the place then you can't really live there at all. What you don't understand is that fighting these things requires social change rather than legal change. If the people don't want to change then no amount of bribery and palm scolding is going to change that. Treating people like people and dealing with them like people is going to change that. When the teacher tells you not to make fart jokes you still do it but when your friends say it's not cool you tend to stop.

Those weren't the strings I described, I'm not very sure what you are trying to say there. Do you agree that we will be expected to follow some rules to get our old trade deals back?

We won't get our old trade deals back, that's plain and simple, we will be a country outside the common market and we will be treated as one. That doesn't mean that new deals are impossible and co-operate between two countries is always an understanding that both sides will follow the rules of that agreement. Like I said, the shopkeeper expects you to pay 69 pence, if you don't hand it over then you violate the agreement and the agreement therefore stops.

Germany and France need trade with us just as much as we need it with them. Neither side has the upper hand and we'll finally be meeting them as equals rather than underlings to the power of Europe so who knows, we might even come back with a better trade deal.

 

[Law]

Actually you can dump your sewage in a river where it flows into another country and there's nothing that country can do to stop you. Except for appeal through a body such as the EU or UN. And the UN is pretty ineffective at stopping this, it happens in quite a few placars eg the Nile. The EU on the other hand is fantastic. The reason why this is the case isn't because European countries have some superior customer culture that means we don't mess with each other, we were doing that all the way up to WWII, it's because of bodies like the EU preventing these actions and cultivating communication between countries.

E: and to add, we wouldn't meet the EU as equals, the EU combined is many times more powerful than we are

 

[Rusty]

Actually you can dump your sewage in a river where it flows into another country and there's nothing that country can do to stop you. Except for appeal through a body such as the EU or UN. And the UN is pretty ineffective at stopping this, it happens in quite a few placars eg the Nile. The EU on the other hand is fantastic. The reason why this is the case isn't because European countries have some superior customer culture that means we don't mess with each other, we were doing that all the way up to WWII, it's because of bodies like the EU preventing these actions and cultivating communication between countries.

E: and to add, we wouldn't meet the EU as equals, the EU combined is many times more powerful than we are

It's cute that you have so little faith in people but the reason behind the change is social awareness more than anything. Nobody even knew what vitamins were before WWII. Now we know that pouring smoke over everything is going to kill us. Do you really think the green protesters are out there because their country is in violation of EU regulation or because they now have the knowledge and the social freedom to fight against it? The people are always going to be the most powerful source that changes the face of the country and the politicians that are voted in, mostly on popularity, aren't going to start dumping plastic in the river in clear view of the hippies holding their polling cards.

And how long exactly do you think the EU will remain "many times more powerful than us" with that attitude? I'm sure a couple of countries will take issue with it if they start throwing their weight against the free countries of the world. If not because of their love of us savage islanders then because "first they came". We will be meeting them on equal terms, one free nation meeting with the union, neither side holding power over the other.

 

[Law]

Social awareness is why we founded the EU, we knew these problems needed to be addressed, and knew the solution wasn't simple as just blindly putting our faith in the idea that every country is run by perfectly rational people. That's the strategy that's been used to deal with global warming and it's been a complete faliure.

 

[Rusty]

Social awareness is why we founded the EU, we knew these problems needed to be addressed, and knew the solution wasn't simple as just sitting around and hoping we'll all agree. That's the strategy that's been used to deal with global warming and it's been a complete faliure.

We didn't found the EU. We founded the common market. It has nothing to do with social awareness. There was no vote, there was no choice, it was politicians taking it upon themselves, that's the exact opposite of social change.

The EU are unelected and they are not held to the voice of the people they represent. The EU is the enemy of social change because it is completely uneffected by the people under it. In the same sense, it is a monarch, it can listen to it's people if it wants to but it also has the option to ignore them and continue on anyway. We go Cromwell on this bloated tyrant and the people will be the ones shaping the world again.

 

[Law]

What part of the EU, exactly, do we have no say in? Because I remember, as I'm sure you do, the EU elections we had.

 

[@Alex@]

We didn't found the EU. We founded the common market. It has nothing to do with social awareness. There was no vote, there was no choice, it was politicians taking it upon themselves, that's the exact opposite of social change.

The EU are unelected and they are not held to the voice of the people they represent. The EU is the enemy of social change because it is completely uneffected by the people under it. In the same sense, it is a monarch, it can listen to it's people if it wants to but it also has the option to ignore them and continue on anyway. We go Cromwell on this bloated tyrant and the people will be the ones shaping the world again.

There'd be no point in politicians if we had to vote every time a decision needed to be made. Ideally a politician is a candidate that best represents the views and opinions of those they represent, this should allow them to make a number of decisions without having to consultant the general populace. Whether or not that is actually we've got is an entirely different discussion.

I think before we can complain about unelected officials, the house of lords needs scrapped. We don't directly vote for a number of officials within our own system anyway. We vote for Members of European Parliament (Or rather some people do, since turn-out is notoriously low) , it operates under proportional representation which shows its self when parties like the BNP gain seats. I may not like when they gain seats but I've got to think that making PR systems more available to the public we're more likely to get some electoral reform in the UK.

If tomorrow morning we have voted LEAVE it'll take 2 years to actually exit the EU then a further 7+ years in order to sort out the fall-out (Sort out new trade deals etc). One thing I've seen put out as an argument to Leave is the "good deal" Norway has, a deal that I'm lead to believe the Norwegian government don't believe is good.

 

[Rusty]

There'd be no point in politicians if we had to vote every time a decision needed to be made. Ideally a politician is a candidate that best represents the views and opinions of those they represent, this should allow them to make a number of decisions without having to consultant the general populace. Whether or not that is actually we've got is an entirely different discussion.

Entering the entire population into the common market was a decision we got to have a say in, because it effected all of us in a tremendous way. Entering the entire population into a union that would decide it's laws and alliances by unelected officials is an even bigger change that we got no say in.

The House of Lords may or may not need to be scrapped, I've no real opinion on this yet. They are unelected true, but it how we, as a country, have decided to function. If we want to get rid of them then if we stand united then we have the power to remove them. We do not have the same option with the European Union, we do not have any say in the European Union, we cannot simply dissolve the parts of it that aren't working. The people who rule over us answer to us, this is how democracy works. The European Union is not democratic, the superstate of Europe is the end of democracy.

If we vote leave tomorrow, we show them that we will not be told. We will be asked, we will be dealt with as people and we will not be commanded but more importantly, we will defend our ability to govern our own lives. Hopefully we won't be the only ones either, just the vanguard leading the way.

I intend to stay up all night to watch the declarations. I want to be there for the exact moment that my country won it's freedom back. I want to be there for the exact moment that my voice began to matter again.

 

[@Alex@]

I do believe that the UK leaving, or even getting a result close to 50-50 would result in additional countries looking to leave the EU. The unit certainly has it's downsides and we're not the only country with complaints about it.

There's not a chance I'm going to stay up to watch declarations but It'll certainly be the second thing I look for in the morning.

 

[Rusty]

I do believe that the UK leaving, or even getting a result close to 50-50 would result in additional countries looking to leave the EU. The unit certainly has it's downsides and we're not the only country with complaints about it.

I really do hope this is the case. The more countries that leave it, the more countries we have to deal with without that middle man, the more countries we have to network with.

Like I said before, I don't want division, division is scary. Division is when people die. But "ever closer union" is about being willing and able to work together, not being forced to.

 

[Law]

What part of the EU, exactly, do we have no say in? Because I remember, as I'm sure you do, the EU elections we had.

 

[Yokcos]

Goddamn it UK. You dun goofed.

 

[Snail Man]

Looks like the UK was with Rusty on this one. Only time will tell what happens now

 

[Rusty]

Never thought I'd be so proud of the Welsh before. I take it all back, your language is only semi-ridiculous.

Edit:
In even better news, I guess this means that UKIP can dissolve now and Farage can finally become the pub landlord that he was always destined to be.

 

[Law]

A terrible shame.

The scots all voted to stay, I doubt that they will be staying with us. This referendum signals the end of the United Kingdom in the form it has stood for hundreds of years. A historic day, for better or worse.

 

[Toni]

Looks like the UK was with Rusty on this one. Only time will tell what happens now

Nah, pretty much everyone sensible has already predicted that there's literally no value in doing this. Only time will confirm everything they said.

 

[Rusty]

If the Scottish are still moaning about that then they can leave at their own regard. I want them to stay with the Kingdom, I want us to stay a bickering family but the political process is already slow enough without wasting more time for in bi-annual referendums for them. Britain wouldn't get another referendum on Europe, especially not one two years after this one, if Scotland really gets another go at it... well... we fought for them once.

 

[AnonyMouse]

I never believed in EU. My country was a satellite of USSR and after 1989 I thought we will become free and independent now. I am not British but Brexit makes me happy, the end of EU and that corporative co-sinking and parasitism is close. A decade more in EU and countries will not be able to choose anything on their own, we came to that stage long time ago.

 

[Law]

David Cameron gave a surprisingly sincere speech, his voice cracking at the end when he spoke of our country. He's a lizard, but I have no doubt he loved our country. It's a shame to see he's standing down, I worry for who will take the reigns after him, Boris and Gove are vile and ambitious people, but they seem to be the obvious successors...

 

[Rusty]

Cameron was a good man once and he kept his promise to give us this chance. Annoyed that after all the campaign promises of him staying that it turned out to be talk anyway. Coward.

Hopefully Boris is next in line though, could do with a strong Brexiteer to do the best by us on the way out. Labour is finally kicking that hobo hippy Corbyn to the curb to, so hopefully we'll have a couple strong leaders to choose between again and it won't just be going with the only option.

 

[Guest User]

Just going to leave this here:

Might be an hour long but well worth the watch.

 

[Toni]

nice propaganda bro lemme try too

 

[Rusty]

A British political film about the points about Brexit (which admittedly is a slight over dramatic) compared to some dumb American poking fun at our entire country and culture. Yeah, I'll think I'll take the first one MotG.

Edit:
I'll admit the dumb American is a funny dumb American though.

 

[Ninety]

@Kousenai: The first line is "We the people are being cajoled, frightened, and bullied into surrendering our democracy and freedom".

Yeah, sounds super impartial. "A slight over dramatic"? That's not slightly dramatic, that's a scare campaign.

 

[Rusty]

@Kousenai: The first line is "We the people are being cajoled, frightened, and bullied into surrendering our democracy and freedom".

Yeah, sounds super impartial. "A slight over dramatic"? That's not slightly dramatic, that's a scare campaign.

I agree that it's not impartial and the drama really isn't needed, but honestly, I don't know the difference between the European Council, the Council of Europe or the other one. I don't know who any of the presidents are and I definitely didn't vote for any of them. Yeah, it's a horribly bias movie but it has very good points about why we're unhappy with the EU and it's worth the watch if you can stomach Farage's face for more than five seconds.

 

[Guest User]

Yeah, I'm not in support of the video or against it; it does seem to be biased, but it did contain a lot of interesting information.

 

[@Alex@]

Very disappointed this morning.

72% Turnout is poor. We really should fine people for not voting.

I don't think anyone's surprised at Gibraltar being so highly Remain.

Sterling is crashing.

Trump thinks we did the right thing.

I really don't want Boris to be PM. I didn't like David Cameron but... Hey at least there's a GIF going about of him (Boris) pushing some poor camera man down with the force.

I can't be bothered with another referendum (That is the campaigning) but it's going to happen and I've no doubts it'll pass this time. There's been huge shift in circumstances.

 

[Rusty]

72% turn out is a good turn out, it's much stronger than what we get in general elections. Also, "don't care" is also a valid opinion. If we can fine people for having that opinion then can we fine people for having other opinions as well? Like those guys who wanted to stay in the EU?

The Sterling is crashing because investors are afraid and they have every right to be. The entire campaign has been Remain telling us that if we leave then we will ruin the economy and by doing so, they've freaked out investors. There was always going to be a dip as our economy entered new territory, not everybody believed in those crazy guys who wanted to sail off the edge of the map, but Remain has made this so much worse than it had to be.

I want Boris in next. He's much better than what anybody else is suggesting right now... plus he's a sith lor- errr... Jedi Knight.

 

[@Alex@]

We get even poorer turnout in general elections. 72% is less than three quarters and I view that as poor, the last general election I think was around 63% which is even poorer. I agree that "don't care" is an opinion but I don't think it's particularly valid, not caring one way or the other shows that you haven't put the necessary thought in to come to a conclusion. If "don't care" is the opinion of these non-voters then "abstain" should be an opt that those officially counted, as it stands Leave could very well actually be a much stronger winning percentage that the piddly <5% that it is.

Sterling wise, we'll plummet for a while then rise back up a little as it settle but its not going to be what it was for quite a while. The oil price has decreased as well, which isn't good for me personally.

 

[Law]

Ironically, Cameron stepping down means we will spend the next two years with a leader that no one voted for.

 

[RangerX]

We get even poorer turnout in general elections. 72% is less than three quarters and I view that as poor, the last general election I think was around 63% which is even poorer. I agree that "don't care" is an opinion but I don't think it's particularly valid, not caring one way or the other shows that you haven't put the necessary thought in to come to a conclusion. If "don't care" is the opinion of these non-voters then "abstain" should be an opt that those officially counted, as it stands Leave could very well actually be a much stronger winning percentage that the piddly <5% that it is.

Sterling wise, we'll plummet for a while then rise back up a little as it settle but its not going to be what it was for quite a while. The oil price has decreased as well, which isn't good for me personally.

Just saying, this is being "agnostic" to a question and this is perfectly valid stance/opinion. Also, it doesn't mean you necessarily don't care. Yes people can be ignorants but the real agnostic measure up that it doesn't chance anything for him/her to take a position or doesn't want to take a position just yet. I myself am being agnostic to many questions in life and its not because I don't care or am not well thought out, its often because am thinking about to a much deeper level that most or in greater details. I often probably think through stuff wayyyyy too much for my own good too. lol