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Discussion Surveys

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Teslohan

Guest
If a survey pops up while I'm working hard on a project, I will give it a 1-star without context to intentionally corrupt the validity of the survey pool.

Why?

If I wanted to give feedback, I would initiate the process myself. There's no reason you can't put it in the HELP menu out of sight.

This is my way of actively protesting against a bad feature in a product I love.

I'm not aware of a manual way of turning that off. Even so, this should not be the default behavior.
 
Yeah, I sort of agree. I found the surveys to be annoying. However, having said that, this IS a beta and this is one way they are collecting information during beta. I am assuming (and I know that is dangerous) that this will not be a part of GMS2 once it is out of beta.
 

Nocturne

Friendly Tyrant
Forum Staff
Admin
If a survey pops up while I'm working hard on a project, I will give it a 1-star without context to intentionally corrupt the validity of the survey pool.
Yeah, thanks for that! Great idea. Use a product that is in beta and that actively looks for your input to make it better (which is more than most software does) but refuse to give that input and deliberately try to screw it up too... Great! Next you'll complain about x/y/z feature not being added, or being designed wrong, or being missing and insist that YYG fix it. But of course, x/y/z feature only got a 1 star rating and so YYG thinks that it's not worth fixing.

Just because you find them annoying doesn't mean that they aren't important to you or YYG in the long run, especially since GMS2 is IN BETA and feedback is incredibly important to making the product stronger. YYG are doing their damndest to get decent feedback and real user opinions and this is how you pay them back? Would you prefer that they didn't ask you about anything at all and just did whatever the hell they want? How difficult is it for you to simply click the "Not Applicable" button and leave it at that? It'll be the same number of clicks and you aren't hurting the rest of the users nor skewing the data...

Seriously, this attitude sucks and I don't understand how you can possibly say that you love the tool while you're gleefully and willfully doing something that could potentially damage future features and bug fixes.
 

psyke

Member
Well... I don't like the surveys either, I just close the window, but giving 1 star for no reason is just being a di**. Sorry to say that.
 

Dan

YoYo Games Staff
YYG Staff
Please don't. I have to read all the responses and work up stats based on the ratings...

If you don't want to fill in a survey, that's up to you. Simply click the X button to close the window and it will go into your "notifications tray" for if/when you do want to submit feedback.
 

gnysek

Member
I'm nearly sure, I've saw those surveys about 20 times now, since November. So - looks that IDE isn't remembering which I answered (not saved on YYG side and linked to account/licence) and asking again after every update.
 

babyjeans

Member
I do get asked the same ones repeatedly, and I feel that is going to corrupt the pool if I don't keep my answers consistent? I understand the value of answering the surveys, so I try to be honest with them, but it should probably save off what we've answered, like @gnysek is saying.
Should we actually file a bug for that?
 

zendraw

Member
i think as important as they are, its even more important yoyo to actually know what theyr doing and for whom. if you dont know your audience then making surveys wont help you much. yoyo shuld be the MOST aware of whats useful, needed and convinient for a indie dev, surveys are not and will never be reliable for delivering the best product to us. maybe you shuld make a game, but a very polished and detailed game and see for yourself what you need and so on. or just ask people that are well established in game development, but people that make good and fun games, finished games. i really doubt Johny that got into programing from last year knows what he needs or is aware of the full potential of the product he uses.
 

CedSharp

Member
Usually, when you hop into a beta, you aren't a client, you are a tester.
A tester has one an only job: Test a product.

But testing would mean nothing if the tests weren't compiled and stats weren't made.

The surveys, mind you, are part of what you agreed to by downloading GameMaker Studio 2.0.
It's in beta, so you're a developer. So you are to test the product and update the developers about your results.

Sadly, YoyoGames cannot force you to fill forms on a website or to mail your results to them. I'm not even sure that would be legal. ( I mean the forcing part )
Something that works very well in business is to harass people with stuff which you're allowed to harass them with... like emails, notifications, messages...
YoyoGames didn't start sending you thousands of mails asking you to reply with your requests and tell them about your results... No instead, they don't fiddle with your
private life and simply popup a survey in the app itself. I think that's an awesome move on their side. Also, you aren't forced to fill out the form, you can just click the small X button.

But, as someone who truely loves GameMaker, as someone who proposed many features in the past, as someone who still expect much from this ever growing software,
I am very triggered by seeing people say they rate 1 star because "it's annoying".

If it's annoying, don't use the product in the first place. It's not completed, it's in beta. If you don't want to test and give your results, fine, wait till the final product gets released.
Some people here are testing the software to make it better, to give ideas, to find bugs. Those surveys let them send that information to YoyoGames.

Let me ask you a question. Let's say you've worked for 3 or 4 months on a simple mini game, an android and ios version of it too.
You're supper happy about the end result of the game, and you have many friends who tested it that said it was nice.
So then you upload your game on the shops ( Google Play and Apple Store ) and you have tons of download in 2 days only! Wow!
You added a "if you like the game, please rate it" popup in your game, because you want to see if it's worth spending another 3 month building
a similar game.

A month later, you go check back on how your game is doing... 1 or 2 stars out of 5.
Comments looks like this: "Great game, sadly it wants me to rate, so unninstalled", "Cool... Hate the popup tho", "This would be fun without popup..."

How would you feel?
People saying your game is good, yet rating 1 star because of your need of feedback...

How would you know if they liked the game, what you'd need to modify, what was good and what was bad... if
all they say is rate 1 star and say to remove the popup?

Common, be in YoyoGames's shoes for a second. GameMaker is HUGE, they really need feedback. Can you at least not rate 1 just cuz your annoyed?
Thanks
 

Dan

YoYo Games Staff
YYG Staff
Yeah, I'm aware of issues with the same survey being shown repeatedly and surveys being shown too frequently also - they should be no more than one every 24 hours and also if you decline day 3, then the next one you get shown is day 4, not day 3 again, etc. (Day 3 should just be waiting quietly in your notifications tray should you wish to fill it in later.) We're fixing these for future releases.

We don't save your answers against your YoYo Account, or anything like that, btw. An update of GMS2 shouldn't cause it to start again, but clearing your %appdata% settings would, as your survey data is cached in this folder.
 

zendraw

Member
Usually, when you hop into a beta, you aren't a client, you are a tester.
A tester has one an only job: Test a product.

But testing would mean nothing if the tests weren't compiled and stats weren't made.

The surveys, mind you, are part of what you agreed to by downloading GameMaker Studio 2.0.
It's in beta, so you're a developer. So you are to test the product and update the developers about your results.

Sadly, YoyoGames cannot force you to fill forms on a website or to mail your results to them. I'm not even sure that would be legal. ( I mean the forcing part )
Something that works very well in business is to harass people with stuff which you're allowed to harass them with... like emails, notifications, messages...
YoyoGames didn't start sending you thousands of mails asking you to reply with your requests and tell them about your results... No instead, they don't fiddle with your
private life and simply popup a survey in the app itself. I think that's an awesome move on their side. Also, you aren't forced to fill out the form, you can just click the small X button.

But, as someone who truely loves GameMaker, as someone who proposed many features in the past, as someone who still expect much from this ever growing software,
I am very triggered by seeing people say they rate 1 star because "it's annoying".

If it's annoying, don't use the product in the first place. It's not completed, it's in beta. If you don't want to test and give your results, fine, wait till the final product gets released.
Some people here are testing the software to make it better, to give ideas, to find bugs. Those surveys let them send that information to YoyoGames.

Let me ask you a question. Let's say you've worked for 3 or 4 months on a simple mini game, an android and ios version of it too.
You're supper happy about the end result of the game, and you have many friends who tested it that said it was nice.
So then you upload your game on the shops ( Google Play and Apple Store ) and you have tons of download in 2 days only! Wow!
You added a "if you like the game, please rate it" popup in your game, because you want to see if it's worth spending another 3 month building
a similar game.

A month later, you go check back on how your game is doing... 1 or 2 stars out of 5.
Comments looks like this: "Great game, sadly it wants me to rate, so unninstalled", "Cool... Hate the popup tho", "This would be fun without popup..."

How would you feel?
People saying your game is good, yet rating 1 star because of your need of feedback...

How would you know if they liked the game, what you'd need to modify, what was good and what was bad... if
all they say is rate 1 star and say to remove the popup?

Common, be in YoyoGames's shoes for a second. GameMaker is HUGE, they really need feedback. Can you at least not rate 1 just cuz your annoyed?
Thanks
people who dont want to give you feedback, wont give you, and if you push them, they will push you back.
people who want to give you feedback will give you if you provide them such oppurtunities, and you as a dev must provide, but providing doesnt mean stickin it in theyr face. i as a dev understand that you need feedback, but as a player i also understand that i dont want to be intercepted by non game features during gameplay.

the complaining dude here is a reflection of yoyo`s ignorrance of what they want to deliver, i like GMS, but making surveys after so meny years of feedback and so meny clients, i find it surprising and unreal and questionable of what are they trying to deliver?

the client is aways right. so yoyo please do better and put more effort and be more responsive to the clients and dont just make GMS more fancy. is the old forum short on feedback and data which you check and make decisions for impruvment?
 
the complaining dude here is a reflection of yoyo`s ignorrance of what they want to deliver, i like GMS, but making surveys after so meny years of feedback and so meny clients, i find it surprising and unreal and questionable of what are they trying to deliver?
I have to disagree. The change from GMS1 to GMS2 is pretty drastic. As such, the feedback YYG had received previous to the release of the GMS2 beta may or may not be applicable. In any case, what YYG clearly wants is feedback on GMS2, on the changes they made and are making, on the new UI and how it functions, and more! They have chosen to do this, among other ways, via surveys. These are just tools to gather information. Nothing more. Certainly nothing nefarious.

the client is aways right. so yoyo please do better and put more effort and be more responsive to the clients and dont just make GMS more fancy. is the old forum short on feedback and data which you check and make decisions for impruvment?
Oh, hell no. Sorry, but the client is not always right. As a successful business owner, I've definitely dealt with clients that are far, far from being right. I'm certain YYG has, too.
 

zendraw

Member
i mean by the client is aways right, that you cant force people to like or buy or use or respect somthing that you made for them, it doesnt matter if theyr litteraly right or not right. our job is to expand freedom, not putting chains.
and yea i agree that specifically for this product feedback is important, but it must be a choise, not a popup. a lesser evil is not good. but i guess, it depends.
 

CedSharp

Member
people who dont want to give you feedback, wont give you, and if you push them, they will push you back.
people who want to give you feedback will give you if you provide them such oppurtunities, and you as a dev must provide, but providing doesnt mean stickin it in theyr face. i as a dev understand that you need feedback, but as a player i also understand that i dont want to be intercepted by non game features during gameplay.

the complaining dude here is a reflection of yoyo`s ignorrance of what they want to deliver, i like GMS, but making surveys after so meny years of feedback and so meny clients, i find it surprising and unreal and questionable of what are they trying to deliver?

the client is aways right. so yoyo please do better and put more effort and be more responsive to the clients and dont just make GMS more fancy. is the old forum short on feedback and data which you check and make decisions for impruvment?
If you don't want to provide feedback, and don't want to have forms appear at you while your using a product, then don't hop into a beta product.
That's just common sense.

bitching about surveys in a beta program is, in my own very honest and personal opinion, stupid.

It's like you'd buy food, but wouldn't eat it.
Like, why did you buy the food in the first place??

The worst is that all you have to do is click the small 'x' icon.
When you browse the web, it happens sometimes, a popup opens ( or a new tab ).
What do you do? Stop using the browser?
Nah, you just close it and continue on, right?

Those popup in gamemaker don't appear often. Just close it when it does, takes 2 second.
Voila.

The reason I'm unhappy right now is not because people want the popup to disapear.
I understand that so very well.

My problem is the 1 star rating.
If you don't like popup, cool. Close them.
Don't send false information to the team that tries it's best
to make something awesome even more awesome.
 
I fill out the survey whenever it pops up, because I have three seconds to spare to make my life much easier down the road, and because I figure it's the least I can do (above paying for the program, I mean) to help YYG out a little.
For people who don't want to fill out surveys, maybe a "don't show me a survey for a week!" button would be good, to keep people like Teslohan from getting too mad. Add a "we understand your time is valuable to you, and we appreciate you paying for our product, but please know that these surveys help us help you. If you'd like to opt back into the surveys, you can find them here: ______," kind of confirmation box when people opt out of the surveys. That'll guilt all but the most "no, **** you, I just want to work!" kind of people into opting back in, or at least filling them out once in awhile, hahah.

Or YYG can just keep the survey as is, and throw away data from users that rate every single thing one star. Data like that is almost definitely junk data from people like Teslohan anyway, right?

If you don't want to provide feedback, and don't want to have forms appear at you while your using a product, then don't hop into a beta product.
In Teslo's defense, he probably figures that paying the $100 to get into the beta should earn him a hassle-free experience, as far as is possible in a beta. He probably expects bugs and things, and might have no problem helping out by voluntarily giving suggestions and bug reports, but I imagine the problem he's having is that he paid money for the product, and YYG is still popping up surveys while he's trying to work with the product he bought. I can understand that feeling a little, but they surveys are unobtrusive enough not to bother me. I imagine if I was trying to fix a bug for three hours and was at wits end when a survey appeared, I might get a little more annoyed, though. :'D
 
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CedSharp

Member
I fill out the survey whenever it pops up, because I have three seconds to spare to make my life much easier down the road, and because I figure it's the least I can do (above paying for the program, I mean) to help YYG out a little.
For people who don't want to fill out surveys, maybe a "don't show me a survey for a week!" button would be good, to keep people like Teslohan from getting too mad.

Or YYG can just keep the survey as is, and throw away data from users that rate every single thing one star. Data like that is almost definitely junk data from people like Teslohan anyway, right?


In Teslo's defense, he probably figures that paying the $100 to get into the beta should earn him a hassle-free experience, as far as is possible in a beta. He probably expects bugs and things, and might have no problem helping out by voluntarily giving suggestions and bug reports, but I imagine the problem he's having is that he paid money for the product, and YYG is still popping up surveys while he's trying to work with the product he bought. I can understand that feeling a little, but they surveys are unobtrusive enough not to bother me. I imagine if I was trying to fix a bug for three hours and was at wits end when a survey appeared, I might get a little more annoyed, though. :'D
Unless I am mistaken, surveys are meant to be anonymous, they wouldn't know from who it comes... Unless the surveys actually aren't anonymous.
 
Unless I am mistaken, surveys are meant to be anonymous, they wouldn't know from who it comes... Unless the surveys actually aren't anonymous.
In regards to filtering out people who constantly rate everything one star, you mean? Yeah, maybe. I don't know how it works honestly, and hadn't thought of that. ):
I just edited my post up there to include alternate solutions to stem false ratings, though. If YYG can't filter the data, because the surveys are completely anonymous, then they might have even more reason to implement something like I mentioned above.
 

zendraw

Member
CedSharp, yoyo shuld be aware of such things and take responsability, we dont live in a perfect world and judging is a reaction, not a response. if they really want to deliver whats best, they shuld know better then to rely totally on a survey.
 

Storyteller

Member
how about an 'Im busy' option, and it saves up your surveys until you have time,like on program close or open ?
Thus you wont be 'in the middle of something'
 

Lukan

Gay Wizard Freak
how about an 'Im busy' option, and it saves up your surveys until you have time,like on program close or open ?
Thus you wont be 'in the middle of something'
That's pretty much what closing them does.
It stuffs them in the notification tray for later.

That red dot means you have surveys queued in the tray, but they do get cleared when you close the program.
 
CedSharp, yoyo shuld be aware of such things and take responsability, we dont live in a perfect world and judging is a reaction, not a response. if they really want to deliver whats best, they shuld know better then to rely totally on a survey.
Uhm, YYG is NOT totally relying on these surveys. The surveys are only one among many tools. For example, we can report suggestions, feedback, and bugs via the YYG bug reporting system they have set up. You can find the link under HELP>Report a Bug, if you didn't already know that. And there's this forum. Obviously YYG is paying attention to what's being posted here. So, I don't get where you could possibly think that YYG is relying totally on these surveys.
 

Mike

nobody important
GMC Elder
Okay... this is going nowhere.

The surveys help us make the program better. If you don't want to do that, then don't complain when it's not quite the way you like it.
 
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