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Question - General [Suggestion] Monthly Payments and no Minimum Payout...

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Mastergidan

Guest
First I want to clarify that this post does not want to be neither offensive nor promotional, I just want to point out to the YoYoGames Staff and you guys some differences in my opinion important for the growth and quality of the products that we publishers offer on the GameMaker Marketplace.

Very frankly, I became more reluctant to release updates for my professional extensions that I made specifically for GameMaker Studio 1.4 and GameMaker Studio 2.

The reason is very simple (from Publisher Agreement):

We will use reasonable efforts to make any revenue payments due to you 60 (Sixty) days following the last day of the first month in which you have earned revenue of at least $100 (one hundred US Dollars).

The reality is that I am receiving payments about every 6 months and this obviously does not allow me to justify the time I need to devote to developing and improving my projects.

I recently had a chance to publish an extension on another store, the Unity Asset Store.

I'm getting monthly payments from them and they do not apply any extra taxes, I don't need to reach any payout on that store, the money I earn the current month, I cash them on the 15th of the following month.

They keep the same as GameMaker Marketplace ( 30% ) so nothing to say about that.

But at the current stage the GameMaker Marketplace holds the money for months and also applies extra fees when it makes payments.

I think GameMaker Marketplace should implement the same type of payments as the previously mentioned store, this will allow us to grow, the store will attract more professionals as it can be considered a job in all respects.

Honestly speaking, at the current stage it can not be considered as such (at least for me and probably several other publishers on this store).

I hope it is not a problem that I mentioned one of your competitors, GameMaker Studio 2 remains an awesome software for making 2D games (it's still the best for the purpose in my opinion), so there should not be any problems in this regard.

Let's discuss it.
 
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slojanko

Member
Why is no one supporting this? What are the reasons for having to wait such a long period before a payout?
If the problem is the transaction fee then let the developers pay for it if they want to receive payments more often.
 
G

Guest User

Guest
Why is no one supporting this? What are the reasons for having to wait such a long period before a payout?
If the problem is the transaction fee then let the developers pay for it if they want to receive payments more often.
I guess it is due to payouts are done manually not automatically.
 
G

Guest User

Guest
If it can be automated for every 60 days why not on demand?
I don't think that is possible, we're talking about a third-party involved in the system — PayPal. And since YoYo does not have control over PayPal accounts then that is nearly impossible.
I've worked with PayPal APIs and believe me when I tell you that I've been working for the past 3 years to find a way to make an automatic payments. Payments data are stored in YoYo Databases and payments are stored on a PayPal account, therefore sending & receiving data, paying, and sharing cuts would destroy the server. Doing it manually is the reliable way, since it is easy, available, and secured. And with secured I mean nobody can hack the automatic codes and steal all the payments (it can happen and I should know).

DISCLAIMER: I am not an expert in this field, but I've worked on eCommerce field for a long time now and I've gained experience throughout the years. I've also made a marketplace before and used manual payouts.
 
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Lonewolff

Guest
YYG has been over this many a time.

The sixty day thing is to cover themselves for credit card chargebacks for starters. People can still demand refunds in this time and forcibly go through their credit card provider if they feel the need.

Secondly, if it takes you six months to reach the $100 threshold, then maybe extension writing is not your thing.

Extensions that are in demand will easily reach the threshold each month.

Sorry to sound harsh, but these are the realities. :)
 

Overloaded

The Oneirophobe
Okay I understand the 60-day wait, but the threshold still doesn't make sense to me. Asset creators spend time from their lives to create assets, and even if it sold one copy, it means someone wanted it - it helped someone.

Secondly, if it takes you six months to reach the $100 threshold, then maybe extension writing is not your thing.

Extensions that are in demand will easily reach the threshold each month.
That's not a valid excuse. Asset creators have the right to receive the money they generated.
 

Overloaded

The Oneirophobe
They will regardless, if you care to read the MP agreement.
From my understanding, the agreement says that you will get paid with PayPal if you reach the threshold of $100. If you want to get paid in other ways rather than PayPal, then the threshold is $250. I published 2 paid assets back in 2014, and while I had very few sales, I received $0 in my PayPal balance. Please correct me if I'm wrong. The truth is it's been a while since I dealt with the Marketplace. Has anything changed regarding payment?
 
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Lonewolff

Guest
From my understanding, the agreement says that you will get paid with PayPal if you reach the threshold of $100. If you want to get paid in other ways rather than PayPal, then the threshold is $250. I published 2 paid assets back in 2014, and while I had very few sales, I received $0 in my PayPal balance. Please correct me if I'm wrong. The truth is it's been a while since I dealt with the Marketplace. Has anything changed regarding payment?
Pays to read the MP seller agreement, you did sign it you know ;)

If you have a balance of less than $100 for more than eight consecutive months, we will pay you the balance.
If you have never been paid anything since 2014, it is time to make sure that YYG hold up their side of the agreement.
 
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Sam (Deleted User)

Guest
It's really not a question of whether you are good at making assets in some cases. You can still be really good at it and not have a clue what to do with that experience in terms of producing something that will be popular. You can make something very useful and not get the recognition you should have, because people are too lazy to learn more about what certain extensions can even do. My Execute Statement extension's pricing I find to be a total steal, but I've only gotten like 2 or 3 buys and no replies to my topic for it, even with all the demos and code samples I provided and growing. So at the end of the day, it can really be a guessing game whether your assets will be good enough popularity-wise to even meet the threshold.
 
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Lonewolff

Guest
@Samuel Venable - This is very true.

I meant more from a perspective where if the seller is haggling over getting paid $5 as they can't reach the payout figure after six months, then they are writing assets for the wrong reason.

Many many better ways of making a living.
 
G

Guest User

Guest
It's really not a question of whether you are good at making assets in some cases. You can still be really good at it and not have a clue what to do with that experience in terms of producing something that will be popular. You can make something very useful and not get the recognition you should have, because people are too lazy to learn more about what certain extensions can even do. My Execute Statement extension's pricing I find to be a total steal, but I've only gotten like 2 or 3 buys and no replies to my topic for it, even with all the demos and code samples I provided and growing. So at the end of the day, it can really be a guessing game whether your assets will be good enough popularity-wise to even meet the threshold.
The responsibility falls on YoYo, they haven't updated the homepage since 2016 ( that is 2 years from now ); many brilliant assets have come and gone and yet only very few got featured. I feel bad for those assets that got buried in a pile of poor assets. The only reason that kept the marketplace working is limiting publishing assets to only Professional+ GMS license holders, and thus limiting crappy assets unlike the old Sandbox which was, IMHO, a terrible platform.

I saw some posts from YoYo promoting assets on their Facebook page, but it'd never be as promotional as the marketplace homepage.
 

zbox

Member
GMC Elder
Put taxes back ONTOP of the price like every other vendor does (and YYG used to)! Nothing worse than seeing a purchase that has lost almost 50% of its value because of YYGs cut + some strange European tax.

Other than that... the two months kinda sucks but whatever I guess.

Totally disagree that if there are low sales then it is an indicator you shouldn't make assets. The marketplace is much (much) too low-volume to use sales as a metric for quality. There are some amazing assets out there that I see getting not much traction because there isn't enough people for someone to have a need for it where you usually would.
 
M

Mastergidan

Guest
Oh finally some replies!

About PayPal APIs come on guys please... I've builded my own Paypal integration in less than one week so please...

About the 60 days: I can understand a 15-30 days delay time for refunds and as I said other competitors or other marketplaces are applying this kind of delay (or even less or no delay time at all if you look at itch.io for example).

The reality is those are our money since the GameMaker Marketplace keeps 30% of our work already we shouldn't pay any extra fee or reach any payout at all, we should just earn that money as soon as possible! (exactly as happens on the other stores)

Some customers prefer buying the Unity version of my product I originally made for GameMaker it is not an aspect to be underestimated cause I am not dedicating time in updating that specific product.

Obviously I'm still selling on both stores but I'm not seeing the earnings from GameMaker Marketplace (for months).

As a developer (and freelancer) I obviously will continue to focus my attention on the other store 'cause it's paying me, and it's paying me monthly!

I am probably a lot better in the GameMaker world and I have other ideas for more Extensions for this software.

The problem is YoYo isn't supporting our hard work in this way it's just keeping our money.

I can tell you that receiving your payment each month really makes the difference: I don't think YoYo guys work for free... we are professionals, we don't work for free too! ;)

I am saying this from years... sadly I must admint thanks God competitors exists in these cases!
 
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Mastergidan

Guest
Pays to read the MP seller agreement, you did sign it you know ;)
Sorry for double post anyways this kind of answer seem kind of "fake" or not from a Publisher point of view but okay I'll reply you anyway:

At the moment from my seller point of view I can just continue publishing my assets also on the GameMaker Marketplace (who cares, I accepted that terms okay) but as you can easily understand I can also sell the same assets on other stores (a.k.a. YoYo Games loses money!)

I saw that other developers are already doing this, but this post was exactly for saying: HEY YOYO do you really want us to do this?

From my personal experience, I like the GameMaker Marketplace but the reality is that:
  1. I never got featured.
  2. I am receiving few money after too long time.
  3. Most important thing: I don't need to be on the GameMaker Marketplace for selling my assets.
I am not saying that I'm going to stop selling my assets there... (not sure) I could probably stop linking my assets to the official marketplace at this point.

This is why I said the question is not to be underestimated.
 
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The-any-Key

Member
Depending on how many that buy my assets. I can get payments every month.
In 2017 I got February and Mars. Then things slowed down and got payment 3 month apart (July and Oktober).
So they wont hold your money if you get regular sales. Well, compare to itch.io, Yoyo do hold your money. Itch.io only take 10% and you can request a payout 7 days after the sale.
I wish we could integrate Itch.io into the marketplace.
 
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Mastergidan

Guest
I've given this topic a wee tidy... Let's keep things focused on the issues being discussed and not turn it into a contest to see who's got the biggest payout... ;)
Thanks man! I agree with you!

Depending on how many that buy my assets. I can get payments every month.
In 2017 I got February and Mars. Then things slowed down and got payment 3 month apart (July and Oktober).
So they wont hold your money if you get regular sales. Well, compare to itch.io, Yoyo do hold your money. Itch.io only take 10% and you can request a payout 7 days after the sale.
I wish we could integrate Itch.io into the marketplace.
The important thing to note is that I'm not saying that we're not generating sales from the GameMaker Marketplace... the real problem is we're not seeying the earnings from those sales in a resonable amount of time.

Itch.io is a great alternative for sure, other developers are already selling their GameMaker Studio assets there... but we should be more (and obviously) than happy to sell our assets on the GameMaker Marketplace since it is the official store and it is integrated with GameMaker Studio itself.

As we are saying we're not happy for the following reasons:
  1. GameMaker Marketplace keeps 30% of the earnings already we do not need to pay an extra fee for receiving our money.
  2. GameMaker Marketplace keeps money for several months if you do not reach the threshold of 100$.
  3. We shouldn't reach any threashold at all since maaan, GameMaker Marketplace keeps 30% of our work already and that's our hard work!
  4. GameMaker Marketplace is not competitive with other stores for the previously mentioned reasons so we can easily choose more comfortable and profitable alternatives.
Asset creators are getting tired of this.

Hope this helps focusing on the suggestion: we're asking for removing the minimum threshold and receiving monthly payments from the GameMaker Marketplace.
 
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slojanko

Member
  1. GameMaker Marketplace keeps 30% of the earnings already we do not need to pay an extra fee for receiving our money.
  2. GameMaker Marketplace keeps money for several months if you do not reach the threshold of 100$.
  3. We shouldn't reach any threashold at all since maaan, GameMaker Marketplace keeps 30% of our work already and that's our hard work!
  4. GameMaker Marketplace is not competitive with other stores for the previously mentioned reasons so we can easily choose more comfortable and profitable alternatives.
I've always wondered why people host their assets on itch. Now it kind of makes sense since you can request a payout anytime and receive it in 7 days.
 

rIKmAN

Member
I've always wondered why people host their assets on itch. Now it kind of makes sense since you can request a payout anytime and receive it in 7 days.
Itch.io also only takes 10%, but you lose the ability to view / install the exensions directly from the IDE and have to do it manually (which isn't really an issue at all for most).
There is at least 1 asset I know of which offers a cheaper price on itch.io than it does on the marketplace because of the % cut and convenience differences.
 
I've always wondered why people host their assets on itch. Now it kind of makes sense since you can request a payout anytime and receive it in 7 days.
You can ask for it instantly... but PayPal takes 30+ cents and another percentage fee. Then itch.io keeps a small percentage, which they deserve. So if you're making $1 each time, you're not getting much. I can't even buy from some people when they have stupid low prices since PayPal takes its money.

YoYoGames Marketplace has been terrible for me. I can't always log in. It always forgets me despite clicking to be remembered. I get page not founds when I do log in. When I buy something there are error messages. When I have bought stuff on the marketplace, some of it just hasn't been easily usable outside of the examples provided.
 
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Mastergidan

Guest
but you lose the ability to view / install the exensions directly from the IDE and have to do it manually (which isn't really an issue at all for most)
Exactly @rIKmAN, I think that's a little "price" to pay that anybody wouldn't even care about.

Since we're not seeing earnings (for months) on the official store.

Remember on GameMaker Marketplace:
  • You need to reach $100 dollar threshold.
  • You have to wait 2 months (or more) after you reach the threshold.
  • You pay an extra fee when the payment is done (and WTF is this? The tax of lazyness or what?)
Too much guys... that's too much!!! Absolutely!

I'm really tired of this and that's why I'm leaving.

On itch.io you choose: you get the money instantly or let them keep the money for you and then you receive the payment after 7 days you request the money and that's it.

On Unity Asset Store? No threshold, No fees, you get the money you earned the previous month the 15th day (or even before) of the current month (a.k.a. monthly payments! $$$$).

From my point of view anyone who says otherwise is crazy (or has a good interest in saying it) and deserves to be treated like that (but that's just my personal opinion obviously! ;) )
 
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rIKmAN

Member
You guys need to move to a non-VAT country :D
I just looked into UK VAT and on the UK.gov website regarding VAT MOSS it says:
If your sales aren’t being made as a business (for example, as a hobby activity with occasional sales, rather than a commercial activity) the changes don’t apply to you and you don’t need to register for VAT or use VAT MOSS.
I would assume the vast majority of sellers on the MP fall into this category where they code for a hobby and stick up an asset to sell a few and make a few quid, rather than having it as their main income or are doing it for a job, so it left me wondering where the 20% VAT that gets charged actually goes if it doesn't need to be paid by the majority of sellers (at least from the UK).

Is it because it's classed as YYG making a sale because it's through their MP and so they are paying VAT on their "own" sales?
 
G

Guest User

Guest
Is it because it's classed as YYG making a sale because it's through their MP and so they are paying VAT on their "own" sales?
Looks like they take their 30% after VAT.
We're their own sales. If YoYo games was really responsible then it would've paid for its own taxes than forcing it to the publishers.
 
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Lonewolff

Guest
I just looked into UK VAT and on the UK.gov website regarding VAT MOSS it says:

I would assume the vast majority of sellers on the MP fall into this category where they code for a hobby and stick up an asset to sell a few and make a few quid, rather than having it as their main income or are doing it for a job, so it left me wondering where the 20% VAT that gets charged actually goes if it doesn't need to be paid by the majority of sellers (at least from the UK).

Is it because it's classed as YYG making a sale because it's through their MP and so they are paying VAT on their "own" sales?
Pretty sure it is linked to the country you are from.

I don't get charged any VAT on my sales. Same as I don't get charged VAT if I purchase GMS or one of its modules.
 

Tthecreator

Your Creator!
Wouldn't an easy way to circumvent VAT be to just not give up a VAT number and just say you do it for a hobby?
I'm sure it's not quite legal but is there anybody really checking? (For me it doesn't count since I am indeed a hobbyist.)
Also I'm not saying you should do anything. (That's a disclaimer)

It's really not a question of whether you are good at making assets in some cases. You can still be really good at it and not have a clue what to do with that experience in terms of producing something that will be popular. You can make something very useful and not get the recognition you should have, because people are too lazy to learn more about what certain extensions can even do. My Execute Statement extension's pricing I find to be a total steal, but I've only gotten like 2 or 3 buys and no replies to my topic for it, even with all the demos and code samples I provided and growing. So at the end of the day, it can really be a guessing game whether your assets will be good enough popularity-wise to even meet the threshold.
Man I feel you! I've been working on a single asset for like 2 years now and I'm getting ready for the next update. But the sales really don't make up for all my work.
I've now actually started to care less about the money and more about the asset itself. After this update I'm going to do everything in my power to push it whether you guys want it or not!

Personally from an emotional standpoint I do mind the wait to be paid. I'ts just like having to wait for a package to arrive in the mail. It's your own money. For the teenagers who do that as a hobby that's special.
From a logical standpoint I don't mind to wait. If you are in dire need of money then perhaps, but if you aren't then it's not a big deal to wait. The money is pretty much yours already, isn't it?
So if you ask whether it's wrong to wait that long you are really talking ethics and not logic.

The real problem comes though when someone didn't make $100 dollars. Just $50 is still a nice amount. But a person should be able to get that money when it's pretty much a given that there won't be much more money than that.
They should at least have the option to cash out after it has been on there for a really long amount of time.
I've given advise to people who wanted to start making assets, and due to this issue I'd always say: "You shouldn't do it unless you go all in". Just meaning you can't make a quick buck on this platform and you have to put in quite a bit of work to get to a $100 goal.

Those are just my 2 cents. I don't even agree fully with myself on every point but I do stand by what I've said here. o_O:p
 
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Lonewolff

Guest
They should at least have the option to cash out after it has been on there for a really long amount of time.
This already happens. Does no one read the MP agreement?


You can make something very useful and not get the recognition you should have, because people are too lazy to learn more about what certain extensions can even do.
If people have to go out of their way to learn the ins and outs of an extension, chances are it is an extension that they don't need in the first place.
 
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Sam (Deleted User)

Guest
If people have to go out of their way to learn the ins and outs of an extension, chances are it is an extension that they don't need in the first place.
That's like saying because people have to go out of their way to learn the ins and outs of GameMaker, chances are it is a software you do not need in the first place. Or any software, for that matter. Which is completely ridiculous. If you are passionate about game development, you will find a way to do it.

My extension is a gateway between GameMaker and a good number of languages you otherwise couldn't make use of alongside GameMaker. I even provide with it a Windows Media Player based video player control, an Internet Explorer based web browser control, and improved dialogs game maker otherwise couldn't achieve on it's own such as an "Open Folder" dialog.

You can also use VBScript/JScript to write your own (and much better) INI file reader/writer. You can write your own text file or file management functions, without the limitation of a sandbox, the possibilities are literally endless. My extension isn't just an extension. It is an extension that makes its own extensions, thus simplifying and making more efficient the process of writing extensions. It's not a question of what my extension can do, it is a question of what it can't do. The only thing it can't do is go on non-Windows platforms, and there are a ton of GMS users who only port Windows exclusively anyway.
 
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L

Lonewolff

Guest
That's like saying because people have to go out of their way to learn the ins and outs of GameMaker, chances are it is a software you do not need in the first place. Or any software, for that matter. Which is completely ridiculous. If you are passionate about game development, you will find a way to do it.
It wasn't a negative on your asset whatsoever.

I just meant that if you have created something complex that people are not using, either they don't know what to do with it or you haven't explained it's functionality well.

People know what game maker does. It makes games.

For example, with your Microsoft Script asset, I don't even really understand what it does. So it is not really something I am going to spend a week learning about to decide whether I need it or not.

Again, nothing against your asset at all. We just don't really understand what it does.

Think of it this way - a random dude pulls you up on the street and says "Wanna buy this 'Fantabulator 2000'? You can't live without it". Are you going to say "Hell yes! I need this!"?
 
S

Sam (Deleted User)

Guest
I've explained in bulk what it does in the topic for it, as well as in the edit for my previous post in this topic. :p

But it's ok, I understand, it is a little complicated. That's why I simplified it by making tutorials and example scripts. :)
Think of it this way - a random dude pulls you up on the street and says "Wanna buy this 'Fantabulator 2000'? You can't live without it". Are you going to say "Hell yes! I need this!"?
Although I must admit this made me chuckle a bit. XD
 
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