Feedback Sexual diversity in a life sim game?

Discussion in 'Game Design, Development And Publishing' started by Didjargo, Aug 24, 2018.

  1. Didjargo

    Didjargo Member

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    How would you feel about playing a life sim game (akin to Stardew Valley and Harvest Moon) where your romantic options are limited to the sexuality of the potential love interests? Like, for example, of you choose to play as a male character, you will not be able to persue a romantic relationship with a female character who happens to be a lesbian. In addition, what do you think should be the ratio of gay, bi, and straight romantic options for the player?

    Or would you prefer that all romantic options are open to both genders (everyone's bisexual) like in Stardew Valley?
     
  2. Misty

    Misty Member

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    I am against discrimination, so bisexualism seems like the best option to me.
     
  3. Didjargo

    Didjargo Member

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    wouldn't representing every character as bisexual discriminate against straight and gay people?
     
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  4. Misty

    Misty Member

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    bisexualism is the future. appreciating the beauty of the human body, in both male and female forms, is the future.
     
  5. NetZvezda

    NetZvezda Member

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    Wouldn't putting a sub-genre to the game solve this problem? For example, manga/anime has shonen/shoujo/shonen ai/shoujo ai/yaoi/yuri sub-genre on them that describe the target audience and or content of the manga. Adding these tags to the game will let the player decide whether to play the game or not.
     
  6. Toque

    Toque Member

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    I understand what you are saying. Its an interesting question. Inclusion is a good thing.

    What about transgender? Asexual? ...........

    Is the game then about sexuality? Or are you just being inclusive? How do you make a game inclusive without making the game focus the inclusion? (if thats what you are going for)
    Good questions. Interesting topic.
     
  7. Dreadusa

    Dreadusa Member

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    Inclusion is really important, but from a marketing standpoint wouldn't that be a bad idea? I'm sure there will be people upset to find out they can't romance a character as who they're playing as which could lead to negative reviews and such.
    Interesting idea though!
     
  8. Toque

    Toque Member

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    No I dont think people would leave a bad review if a straight character can't date a gay character or whatever options. They would simply move on to characters they can date. Win\lose is kind an expected thing in gaming. If the game is dating.......then you might win and lose there too. Its implied.
     
  9. FoxxiLoxi

    FoxxiLoxi Member

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    Maybe each game has a dice roll of how likely each character would sway to dating the same sex or opposite sex. So you don't have it set in stone. The easier they are to sway the more likely they would be able to date them.

    Or have that the mannerism of the player to the person can affect the likelihood.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2018
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  10. Smiechu

    Smiechu Member

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    Make everyone in the game a hermaphrodite - all possible problems solved.
     
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  11. Toque

    Toque Member

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    I don't think "hermaphrodite" refers to sexual orientation so.......... not sure there is a perfect solution.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2018
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  12. Smiechu

    Smiechu Member

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    I see it's hard to embrace some basic concepts here.

    If you have 2 sexes, possible permutations are - hetero-, homo-, bi-, a-, auto-
    If you have 1 sex, possible permutation are - hetero-, a-, auto-

    I don't even want to debate what would be the possibilities with 3 sexes.
     
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  13. Toque

    Toque Member

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    Yeah that’s sort of the problem.
    Sounds like a programming nightmare to me.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2018
  14. Alessio

    Alessio Member

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    Clownfish Simulator 2019?
     
  15. hippyman

    hippyman Member

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    This "game" sounds extraordinarily stupid. Controversial just to be controversial.
     
  16. Toque

    Toque Member

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    Not sure what the motive of the OP is? But it’s a valid question.
     
  17. GMWolf

    GMWolf aka fel666

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    I don't think it's an issue.
    You can't expect everyone to be attracted to your gender just because it's politically correct, life doesn't work that way.
    If someone is offerended because a straight male character won't date another male character, then they are not respecting that characters sexuality.

    As long as you represent most genders out there (straight, gay, bi) you should be fine.
    You could even do your research and have them be proportionally represented, but that has backfired before...


    On the other hand, from a gameplay perspective, it may be more fun to be able to date whoever. It will allow people to rollplaro the way they want, it is an RPG after all.
    (Well, unless they want to roll play as the straight man constantly hitting on lesbian women or something...)
     
  18. Rob

    Rob Member

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    Maybe you can have an achievement for 100 rejections based on incompatible sexual preference.
     
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  19. GMWolf

    GMWolf aka fel666

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    Or yeah, just have them be on a scale.
    Like, a have two values, one for how attracted to males, and another to female.
    Though make sure they add up to a minimum amount.
    Then use that to decide how easy/hard it is to get with that person.

    I'm aware that's a simplified model, and people out there may be offended by that, but then we also simply lighting, collision response, and a whole load of other stuff...
     
  20. Toque

    Toque Member

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    100 rejections. I can help you with that scenario logic.
    .................................
    I don’t know how you could implement without offending some group.
     
  21. Rob

    Rob Member

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    Mine was a troll comment, sorry ;)
     
  22. Guest User

    Guest User Guest

    it depends on what the purpose of these NPCs are, you should think whether limiting the player's romantic options is in line with the purpose of having romance in your game.

    if the game is a sandbox playground where everything else is catered to the player living how they want, then the Stardew approach is the best to pursue. otherwise, a more realistic approach would be better.
     
  23. RichHopefulComposer

    RichHopefulComposer Member

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    Save your pathetic excuses, cishet scum. I've already alerted the hive. You will pay dearly for your (micro)aggressions against our kind.
     
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  24. Triangle

    Triangle Member

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    See, I don't see anything wrong with the system Didjargo's proposing, from what they said alone it sounds completely fine by me. I think it would depend a bit though on how the mechanics worked in practice - I mean, there's definitely a right way and a wrong way to do that, though I'm not sure what either would look like. I think both this and 'everyone is bisexual' both have advantages and drawbacks.
     
  25. Toque

    Toque Member

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    I was kidding as well. No worries.
     
  26. dannyjenn

    dannyjenn Member

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    If it was my game, I would keep all the relationships exclusively heterosexual. (And if the player is gay or bisexual, and he doesn't like heterosexual games, then nobody's forcing him to play my game. Simple as that.) But then again, I don't think simulated "dating" and "relationships" (especially sexual ones) are all that appropriate to begin with. I'd go with something more like Animal Crossing (simulated "friendships" but nothing sexual).
     
  27. GMWolf

    GMWolf aka fel666

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    Here sex refers to gender, not intercourse.
     
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  28. arirish

    arirish Member

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    You don't know what the OP has in mind, ultimately.
     
  29. dannyjenn

    dannyjenn Member

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    @GMWolf - I'm aware of that, though the two are not unrelated. What I meant is that make-believe relationships of a sexual nature are inappropriate for video games, regardless of whether or not the game includes any explicit (or even implicit) sexually-vulgar content.

    I say they're inappropriate because, for one thing, pop culture has the power to shape societies for the better or for the worse. If you depict dating (even without any reference to sexual intercourse) as something mundane or trivial, and you present it to the audience in terms of "dating is a part of life, you should be doing it" or "if you want to be happy, you should get a boyfriend/girlfriend", then your depiction subliminally enters into the audience's experiential memory, which then carries over into his real-world relationships and real-world decision-making. On a larger scale this leads to cultural desensitization which is evident in the fact that many young people today are dating at a very young age (e.g. middle school, sometimes earlier), as if they feel some need to have a boyfriend/girlfriend, though they fail to see the greater purpose of dating beyond just "feeling good".
    The essence of "dating" (or "courtship", to use the more proper word) is that it's the first stage in preparation for marriage. Dating is not trivial, and it shouldn't be presented as something trivial. You shouldn't be dating unless you have some intention of getting married, or are at least open to marriage. To date for the sake of dating, or for pleasure alone, without seeking marriage, or for any other motive, is morally wrong. Yet for the past few generations the movies and TV have been bombarding society with the exact opposite message, such that dating at an early age has now become commonplace, and many people don't even realize the true purpose of dating anymore, or see that it's wrong to date for the wrong reasons. (And worse still is that people who don't take dating seriously are just one step away from not taking sex seriously either. So we end up with all these pregnant teenagers, and abortion, and STDs, all sorts of other related problems.)

    Come to think of it, even the friendships in Animal Crossing may be going a little too far. Not because they're too sexual, but because they promote a very utilitarian view of "friendship". The player must use the in-game characters as a means to attain better items or a better score. It basically degrades "friendship" down to the level of mere usefulness, which, again, can impact our real-world outlook as well. So this game mechanic is questionable to say the least. But for the dating mechanic, I'd say it is unquestionably a bad idea. Games should promote temperance and chastity, not promiscuousness. But temperance and chastity are more abstract, so I'm not sure how they could be implemented into a simulation game and have the game still be enjoyable. (You could probably more easily implement them into an adventure game or a roleplaying game, but not so much a simulation game.)
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2018
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  30. Toque

    Toque Member

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    Not appropriate to who? Probably not kids.
    I think adults can decide for themselves.

    No clue if game is sexual in nature??
    No clue what the game is really about.



    It’s interesimg that a player can use a sword and slice off someone’s head and no one blinks a eye. But anything regarding relationships and its sensitive.



    Adults can decide.

    Yes sexual natured games should not focus on underage kids.

    What about all the graffic violence in games? It’s horrific. Movies!!

    Parents should monitor kids activities in books, movies, tv, music, games.

    As I said no matter what you choose you will offend someone..........

    But I do respect everyone’s opinion and right to be offended.
     
  31. GMWolf

    GMWolf aka fel666

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    I think you are overthinking it.
    A game about dating doesn't say dating is a must for a good life, just like games like COD or battlefield don't suggest you must go around gunning people down to have fun.
     
  32. GMWolf

    GMWolf aka fel666

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    I'll date whoever and whenever I want, thank you very much.

    [Edit]
    Let me elaborate on that:
    Sure dating can be fun, but there is also a point to it; how do you know you want to marry someone before you spend quality time with them? Marriage is not something you would want to go in blind...
    But that's a whole other topic.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2018
  33. Toque

    Toque Member

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    I think censorship in games is a whole different topic.

    Censorship with any art is a whole different topic.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2018
  34. RichHopefulComposer

    RichHopefulComposer Member

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    Welcome to the future, time traveller! Please, have a seat! Your journey must have been long and harsh, and our world must be alien to you. From what time period do you hail? Judging by your clothing and mannerisms, I want to say sometime around the 1700s, but I hate to make assumptions about my guests. Come, take a drink. Tell us your story!
     
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  35. Rivo

    Rivo 7014

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    Explain to me, if you wish, in full detail what is wrong with this statement. I'm curious to hear your and or other peoples opinions on the subject. I can then compare and contrast to possibly find an average on peoples general opinion on dating/relationships.
     
  36. Rivo

    Rivo 7014

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    How did he imply that you wouldn't want to spend quality time with them? Dating someone is literally to spend quality time with someone... he didn't specify on time spent dating. He also went on to say ' or are at least open to marriage'
     
  37. Toque

    Toque Member

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    Two ideological opposed positions that will never change. Debate is futile.
     
  38. zendraw

    zendraw Member

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    if you want sexual diversity, get a more diverse mind. sexuality is not just about an intercourse or whatever. sexuality depends on how you use it. its energy, it has nothing to do with intercourse, you use sexual energ while walking, drawing, singin, and so on. if you want sexual diversity, then let the player do whatever in your game.
     
  39. RichHopefulComposer

    RichHopefulComposer Member

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    "There's nothing immoral about dating for pleasure alone, even if you're not looking or open to getting married. The idea that people need to be looking for a life partner to date someone, or even that people need to be open to finding a life partner is silly and extremely outdated."
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2018
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  40. EvanSki

    EvanSki King of Raccoons

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    Short-answer: Its not worth the criticism
    long-answer:
    That would be a cool dynamic feel to a dating sim or life sim, It would lock out certain choices for the player unless they did another play through as the opposite sex, Then again that adds replayablity so all in all if you can do it right go for it!
     
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  41. GMWolf

    GMWolf aka fel666

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    In the end, make the game you want to make.
    Worry about publishing it later :p
     
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  42. Guest User

    Guest User Guest

    i just noticed this question.

    tbh, if romance is a huge part of your game and something that is going to be a big part of the player's experience, then youre going to want roughly (not necessarily equal, but rather not wildly disproportionate.) equal amounts of opportunity for players regardless of which gender and orientation they choose to play as.

    if romance is NOT a big deal in the game, then the ratio can be whatever you end up with.
    more than likely--if this were the case--you would simply approach each NPCs orientation as an aspect of their character design. then whatever the ratio ends up being, is what it is.
     
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  43. woodsmoke

    woodsmoke Member

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    Someones always going to be offended. Just do what you want to do as long as your heart says it's okay, it should be okay. Unless you are insane. But who's to tell who's sane and who isn't!
     
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  44. 00.Archer

    00.Archer Member

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    This is the best answer in this thread, IMO. Have each character have a random number in the Kinsey scale, @Didjargo .

    ??????
     
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  45. ajan-ko

    ajan-ko Member

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    Yuri is life, yuri is hope.... :D

    ........and then I saw the yuri option on DA:I

    Screw this, I'm riding the bull.
     
  46. Yal

    Yal GMC Memer GMC Elder

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    This topic is becoming a trainwreck... could we please keep this child-friendly and not get personal?


    As for Stardew Valley, I'm pretty sure the dev's official statement on gay romancing is along the lines of "it was more work to disable it than just letting you romance everyone, AND it's more inclusive so that was a nice bonus". So IMO it's a bit of a win-win situation. People have been upset because Pokémon is satanic and gives children seizures, so "people get upset when they see gay stuff in media" isn't really a valid thing to worry about - people out there will find reasons to get upset about anything no matter if it makes sense or not. Do the stuff you want to do, just be careful not to violate any laws in your local jurisdiction and you should be able to do anything you want with your games.
     
  47. jujubs

    jujubs Member

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    I think that'd be an interesting thing to toy with. The player could choose his character's sexuality at the beginning of the game - or better yet, shape it as they go. There are many things to touch on under this umbrella. Gender stuff, sexual orientation, polygamy, etc. Maybe you can only have certain relationships if your character is hetero/homo/bi/etc. A few could be locked under being monogamous, etc. Imagine a game like Shining Force or SMT: Persona, but you can only add certain people to your "party" based on your character's pursuits. It'd add lots of replay value, but indeed, sounds like a programming nightmare :D
     
  48. Yal

    Yal GMC Memer GMC Elder

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    Wouldn't be that hard to add optional party members whose disposition changes depending on your stats, the hard part is gonna be creating enough content - optional characters means you're gonna need to make more characters so players get some sort of minimum to interact with, and if you have more plot branching you need to playtest a lot more to verify all branches work properly. Also, it's typically harder to make jigsaw-piece style stuff that can be cobbled together freely actually feel cohesive, while having monolithic pieces that always are the same means you can guarantee they're always as good as you want them to be.

    There's a GDC talk that just released that covers this, actually!

    Worth to note is that they boiled down most of the sexuality spectrum to two questions at the start (one of them being a choice between whether your daughter's other parent was male or female, I don't remember the other). You get very broad, judgment-less statements to make and then get to fill in the blanks about what they refer to - if your partner was male, the daughter either was adopted/surrogate'd or you're a trans male, for instance, but the game doesn't spell that choice out for you.

    Also, the part at the end about the 4-hour investment in making assets for some trans body types (which is much more respectful than I make it sound: the bodies were wearing a binder/halter top rather than a tank top) that lots of people loved is really good. It doesn't need to be hard or arduous to be inclusive.
     
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