OFFICIAL Regarding the future support & sale of GMS1.x

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by ShaunJS, Nov 29, 2016.

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  1. Blunt

    Blunt Member

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    Will the console exports for 1.xx still be available to master collection users (who sign with sony and/or microsoft) after GMS2 release?
     
  2. Yal

    Yal Member GMC Elder

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    From what I've heard, customer help stuff are handled by them rather than by YYG (for confidentiality reasons), and I wouldn't expect them to pull support just because YYG changes something that doesn't affect them directly.
     
  3. Xer0botXer0

    Xer0botXer0 Member

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    So the only way to use GMS 1 and/or 2 in the future will be to purchase it ?
    Nothing wrong with that.

    In the end I want GMS to move forward, and provide us with the best studio available. And in order for that to happen they need to make a good amount of money. From what I can tell they've done what they could to allow everyone to get onto the wagon, with the free versions and humble bundle deals! And of course to grow the community base in preparation for GMS 2, which is now at a discounted price, I haven't got my copy yet!
     
  4. Lukan

    Lukan Gay Wizard Freak

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    @Mike is 1.4 going to get Websockets before you ditch it? I feel like that's an important feature that was never implemented.
     
  5. 607

    607 Member

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    I hope a free version will become available once again in the future.
    When GameMaker studio came out, I continued using GameMaker 8.1 for years, because GameMaker Studio's Lite Edition had resource limitations, which I didn't want to have to deal with for general use. Eventually, fortunately, GameMaker Studio Standard Edition went from $20,- to free, but even then it took me some years to dare to switch to it.
    I'll probably keep using GameMaker Studio for a while to come, but it's a shame other people won't be able to download and use it anymore, in my opinion. Perhaps it's for the better money-wise, but it'll take away a lot of possibilities for people programming for fun.
    I hope GameMaker Studio 2 will get a free version in the future, too. But until that time, I wish GameMaker Studio would be up for download still. GameMaker 8.1 isn't downloadable anymore either, is it?
     
  6. mazimadu

    mazimadu Member

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    Hang on, didnt I hear somewhere that some of the updates in early acces, such as the spine event support, were coming to GMS 1.4? I know many of said updates are I'm GMS 2 but 1.4 has not been updated in months. There are some critical bugs that have been fixed in early acces.
     
  7. Lukan

    Lukan Gay Wizard Freak

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    Studio 2 does have a trial version, but it has the old limitations that Studio Free used to have
     
  8. Storyteller

    Storyteller Member

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    any chance that when you release the final version, you can remove the updater requirements and online checks?
    possibly make it useful for offline only use? Some of us may not always have internet access at all times.
    If it is going to be the last, last version, then checking for online updates is well, superfluous.
    At the same time, making it useful for those without internet access would be great, however I believe there are DRM concerns?
     
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  9. SVG

    SVG Member

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    I'll just say "read my signature," get motivated instead of bringing it down, don't let negativity destroy your dreams and goals. Unity is fantastic and is free, GM cost money for exports you may need but IMO is so much easier to learn and make 2d games.

    -If money is an issue, try something that doesn't cost money

    -If having to relearn something new is an issue then I recommend you to gain an understanding of how we are, we can only thrive and grow and get closer to perfecting ourselves by learning from our mistakes - so learning something new is not a bad thing at all (as a person and company alike), JUST DO IT! lol

    -If you're worried about other people making money off of you, then you see that they are just trying to make money off of you! On the positive side if you focus on the power behind new software and "invest" for yourself and that investment helps support new support :p and supports the people and families of Game Maker just so you can have a product that can help you enjoy making games or furthering your goals and ambitions to obtain happiness and success through making a profitable game that brings enjoyment to others, then this all would make you motivated even more-so to press forward! (even though what is being said negatively could be true and discouraging, results to yourself for feeding it into you and affecting you and others around you is even more dangerous, be careful not to let it take hold in your heart)

    -If anyone disagrees with what I have said, or another words disagrees with motivation, positive reflection, or seeing the good in everything possible then I would always be against you. I don't defend Game Maker, I'm defending against negativity and discouragement in and around us all. I understand it's okay to talk about those things that could or could not be, just be careful for those of you reading and letting negativity slip into you, that's all.
     
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  10. Drewster

    Drewster Member

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    Well said. My sentiments exactly.

     
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  11. P-Star7

    P-Star7 Member

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    I agree with most of what you're saying. It's always good to push yourself and learn, and I understand that Game Maker needs support. However, as you said, GM is easier to learn and make 2D games. So if a kid can't afford Game Maker, is he supposed to use a worse option on purpose just because? I'm all for capitalism when it's an adult who can do all they can, but when it's a child, they don't have the power to change their situation. I did the self reflecting like you said in your signature, and what I came to was that I don't deserve to use Game Maker any more than a poor child just because I can afford $99 or because I got it when it was free. That's why I suggested to Mike to have a program that gives the old Game Maker to only children who can't afford it (and not include any money-making exports), but it seems he still views it as a financial liability. I'm not mad at him, but I hope I can change his stance through a patient defense. I love GameMaker enough so that I want it to be availiable to the most people possible, whether that be because they can pay for it or if it is subsidized.
     
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  12. TsukaYuriko

    TsukaYuriko Q&A Spawn Camper Forum Staff Moderator

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    The trial version of GM:S 2 is free and available to everyone.

    If more functionality than it offers is desired, I'm sure that the educational appeal of GM:S, especially in light of the computer science field's recent job market expansion, would be enough of an incentive for parents to consider their child's appeal to use their birthday/Christmas/etc. as an opportunity to purchase a GM:S 2 license, which would offer them potentially countless hours of entertainment, as opposed to, say, the latest TLoZ game that might keep them busy for a week or two. But that's just a bonus, as the trial version probably offers more than enough for hobbyists who are just starting to dabble in game development, anyway.
     
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  13. SVG

    SVG Member

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    Yeah, I mean I'm not a kid and I can't afford it, but I own the pro version, I kept my eyes open and saw an opportunity and purchased the humble bundle deal with pro version, and a second different humble bundle later for the mobile exports, spent under $25 maybe, I wouldn't have spent the money on full or even half price. I'm over 30 with a kid and wife and not that great of a paying full time job but relies on overtime for $$ 50-60 hours a week, I have enough $$ but I'm SUPER frugal with it but I still made it happen. If I didn't see that deal, I would have gone full out and learned Unity, Yes it seems harder, but even a kid can learn it over time with enough patience and self-discipline, if you don't have that then you won't even learn GM. I understand where you're coming from though :)

    And if a kid can't earn allowance, he should try cutting someone's yard for 20 bucks, after a couple of yards he's good :) Everything takes effort if you want it, but when you work for something you appreciate it more, if it's just given to you then most of the time it's not as so.

    Humble bundle don't come around that often, so why not go cut 10 yards :D
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 9, 2017
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  14. P-Star7

    P-Star7 Member

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    Thank you guys for all being understanding. You see, my goal is to tout Hello's Mario Engine (Which I am reskinning as "Hello Tux Engine" so there is no copyrighted stuff in it) as an easy way to make your own platformer no matter how much or little you change - the engine is already loaded with comments, I love it! The point is, it would be a lot more accessible to people who couldn't afford GMS 2.0 if they were allowed to get 1.4 for free, because it would vastly reduce the usefulness of Hello's and my engine for newbies. Note that this would only cover the Windows export and would only be handed out to people who COULDN'T pay, not those who don't WANT to pay. Look at the results on MFGG.net, a lot of fangames were created when Game Maker was a lot cheaper. If it had cost $99 back then, we could be looking at a very different history. Nobody wants that kind of community to be no longer viable, right?
     
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  15. FrostyCat

    FrostyCat Member

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    If communities like those were of practical value to YoYo, YoYo would have done everything in their power to preserve accessibility to them. Given the response from YoYo thus far, the evidence is probably scant enough for YoYo to cast them to the wind.

    Most fail to do anything of real artistic value or originality, and often not without infringing on the intellectual property of others. Many overstay their welcome on the free version because of chronically limited income. Some even post and endorse public links to pirated copies of GM on their community boards.

    If your goal is to tout those communities as a valuable target for YoYo to cater to, show some evidence to the contrary of what I listed above. Make a more persuasive argument that it's a worthwhile time, effort and monetary investment on YoYo's behalf than "because it matters to newbies".

    Not every newbie is made equal.

    PS: Before you call me elitist for making the statement, keep note that I am a frequent advocate for educational usage around here. I'm just concerned that your arguments fail to hit the right mark.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2017
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  16. P-Star7

    P-Star7 Member

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    Ok, you are right that there is a lot of copyright infringement and people who never made any good games. Here are my responses to those two things:

    1. I can't really control that, but I am trying to make the problem of "look at how easy it is when you have premade assets that are enough to make a complete game" with the project I am making. Most of those games use premade Mario assets either from Nintendo or other fans. It makes sense that you'd want to build upon that, but I'm trying to fix or at least improve it.

    2. I can't really control that either, but here are some users who have really improved. They used to use other peoples' engines, but now they are making shiny and also good games.
    https://mfgg.net/index.php?act=user&param=09&c=2&st=0&o=&uid=9691
    https://mfgg.net/index.php?act=user&param=09&c=2&st=0&o=&uid=2882

    And to be honest, I came around on the pricing deal. It's still a little unfair that some can ask for it for their birthdays and some have to work for it, but I guess that is not just a YoYo problem you know. Now my deal is basically, if it's not "affordable" (in others perception) to get GM to mess about with an engine, they may never progress onto making greater games like these two have. I understand that the tool has value but if less people download Hello Tux Engine because GMS 2 is $99 then that not only has implications for me (that no one is interested in my works) but also the copyright infringement and "progression to greatness" problems. Take the appeal of a premade Mario engine, then take the Mario out of it. That solves copyright infringement! But thing is, most of MFGG sprang up when GM was >=40. And also, if we discourage nooby games from getting feedback, there won't be any great games.

    And I've still liked MFGG for about 8 or so years. I've even tried to argue against all the cipyright infringement going on. If I'd still like it without the Mario part then doesn't that show that there's value there?
     
  17. FrostyCat

    FrostyCat Member

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    If you're going to bring up the matter of "affordability", have you considered how affordable it is for YoYo to continue servicing this crowd?

    I don't think YoYo cares what they've done, their work has little marketing value and YoYo has legally washed its hands clean in the EULA. As long as they don't buy anything in the end, they exist in YoYo's database but not in YoYo's books. With a team of 50+ to feed, should YoYo work towards targeting people whose idea of "a lot of money" is only one or two digits USD and is chronically poor, or people whose idea of "a lot of money" goes up to 4 digits USD or more and have a means of income?

    So far you still haven't presented any convincing arguments for your community being a worthwhile monetary investment, in fact you made statements showing it isn't. If you want to see this change, argue like you're on Wall Street instead of Memory Lane.
     
  18. The-any-Key

    The-any-Key Member

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    Hmm. That means all the assets on the marketplace that aim on iOS, Android, HTML5... will get very few new customers. And in the end they will be forgotten and worthless for old 1.x users that lack export modules. They may want to use the assets but can't buy the corresponding export modules.

    I understand this "keep looking forward" is the future. But I am afraid that only a few of the 1.x marketplace assets will be upgraded to 2 but most of them will get abounded/removed by their creator.

    This is an alarm for me that just say: Stop create assets for 1.x. It has no future.
     
  19. Mike

    Mike nobody important GMC Elder

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    Not so. 1.x assets can be imported and used by GMS2 as well, so they are still very useful to users. That said, if an asset uses GMS2 features, then it may well have more value to some users, but plain scripts - like an A* would work across the board anyway.
     
  20. The-any-Key

    The-any-Key Member

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    True. If every import worked that would be fine. But I have tested import some assets to GMS2 and most of them don't work. Or you get strange bugs that is hard to figure out in code you have not written yourself.

    Don't take me wrong. I think GMS2 is the future. I can't stand the 1.x room editor. But I think I wait about 6-8 months before I use GMS2. Because I can't get the debugger and the deactivate functions to work as they should yet. Some of the assets I use can't be imported to GMS2 because they break when I do.
     
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  21. Mochi

    Mochi Member

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    just out of curiosity, will gms2 eventually be making its way to steam like 1.4 did?
     
  22. Mike

    Mike nobody important GMC Elder

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    It already is.
     
  23. Yal

    Yal Member GMC Elder

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    Will Studio 2 also give you steam achievements for finding bugs, crashing the game, and stuff like that? :p
     
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  24. Mike

    Mike nobody important GMC Elder

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    No... not "yet"... :)
     
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  25. sylvain_l

    sylvain_l Member

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    what a pity, I've got some good ones in my backyard. Just from yesterday: a font add range 32 - 57600 :p
     
  26. P-Star7

    P-Star7 Member

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    I don't have a full response yet due to waiting for a user to respond if I can use their quote in public... But I read this:

    Why are you doing this now?

    We want to make game creation accessible to everyone. We think that once people jump in and start creating a game, they’ll see firsthand how easy it is with GameMaker: Studio.

    That was from the FAQ about when Game Maker: Studio became free. I understand that $100 is still really accessible, but that's 2/3 of what Game Maker was before the free Windows version. Was it mentioned that this would only remain in effect if people upgraded to the Professional edition? Like I said, I may post some more thoughts about how this affects the project I was working on soon.
     
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  27. TheGameMakerGuide

    TheGameMakerGuide Member

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    It would be so nice if Yoyo games could officially define what they mean by "foreseeable future".
     
  28. Dog Slobber

    Dog Slobber Member

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  29. TheGameMakerGuide

    TheGameMakerGuide Member

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  30. Mike

    Mike nobody important GMC Elder

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    While updates won't be released after this point, the exports will still for for a while after - especially windows. Windows will likely work for years after. You will still be able to login and use your licenses. The issues will come with Apple and Google (and console), as they change APIs all the time, so these exports will likely break. Windows hardly ever does this, so will last for quite a while.

    You can also easily import your game into GMS2 and carry on if you want to export to a target that stops working.
     
  31. TheGameMakerGuide

    TheGameMakerGuide Member

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    My game is targeted exclusively to the Android platform.

    It seems that in order to export to the Android platform using GMS2 I'll have to buy the mobile license, which is basically an Android+iOS combo, the problem is that I do neither need nor want an iOS license, so it seems that if I want to to buy an Android license YYG is forcing me to buy an iOS one as well, not really nice.

    Does YYG have any plans to release and Android-only licence in the foreseeable future?
     
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  32. Mike

    Mike nobody important GMC Elder

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    By keeping them bundled it saves our mobile developers quite a bit, and this is what a larger number of our users want.

    We have no plans to separate at the moment, but there is Android Fire which would allow you to target Android Fire devices (only). But it's much cheaper at only $150, and fire devices are also incredibly cheap.
     
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  33. sparklemotion

    sparklemotion Member

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    I would like and Android-only module as well! I have not interest in iOS.
     
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  34. Carnivius

    Carnivius Member

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    Same. I have no interest in iOS and would like to port GMS2 projects to Android like I did on GM1.4 but it's far too much for the module.
     
  35. Mike

    Mike nobody important GMC Elder

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    See above.... The Android Fire module is much cheaper and you can upgrade from that later if you wish. There's also the 60 day free trial. Fire devices are ridiculously cheap as a test platform as well....
     
  36. rIKmAN

    rIKmAN Member

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    Keep working in 1.4 until July, and save a little every week starting now.
    By July you will have saved enough (or a decent chunk) towards purchasing it.

    For people moaning that they don't want the iOS module, either grab the Amazon Fire module (which is cheaper and works with Fire devices) or think of the "Mobile" licence price being how much the Android module costs on its own, and the iOS module comes along as a free extra.
     
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  37. Carnivius

    Carnivius Member

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    That's the sort of thing you tell a child. And I haven't been one of those for several decades. And given that 1.4 often crashed/stalled on my PC before I upgraded to 2.0 and that the room editor's massive limitations were a big reason why many of my projects were taking so bloody long to do, it's very unlikely I would ever want to redownload it and use it again. Especially since all my projects are now ported over into GMS2.

    I don't even know what an Amazon Fire is. But does that module work with all android devices then? If it's just Amazon Fire then not much good to me as I don't own one of those nor does anybody I know that I'd like to actually make a lil game for to take with them like you can easily on their already existing phone.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
  38. rIKmAN

    rIKmAN Member

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    No, it's the sort of thing you tell someone who is moaning that something costs too much when there is very little chance of that moaning doing anything to change the price of said object, but they don't seem to come to the solution of saving up for it by themselves.

    I didn't know you already had GMS2, but my point still stands - your best option is to save as best you can until you have enough money to purchase it. Keep an eye out for sales too which would further reduce the cost like the recent Black Friday sale or the one currently running which is 10% I believe?

    The Amazon Fire module only works with Fire devices (which as Mike has mentioned are cheap) which is why it is cheaper than the full Mobile licence. If you decide to get that first then when you wanted to upgrade to the full Mobile licence the cost of the Fire licence is deducted so you only pay the difference (like an upgrade).

    Fire is included in the full Mobile licence already (along with iOS and full Android), but could be a good intermediate step for you to get working on making the game for a Fire device whilst saving for the full module - at which point it will be and easy job to port to regular Android.

    Only you will know the best path for you to take with regards to doing that or just saving and getting the full Mobile licence outright.
     
  39. The-any-Key

    The-any-Key Member

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  40. Carnivius

    Carnivius Member

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    Nah, I don't appreciate that kinda tone. I wasn't moaning. I was agreeing with a post from another member.
    And it's more that I don't see it as particularly good value when I bought the 1.4 Android module (in a sale but way before it was in super cheap Humble Bundles so it still cost me a lot of money) which is all I wanted.
    Checking my receipts it was:$215.99 which at the time worked out as £147.21 of my actual money.

    And no, Android Fire is not an option then. For one it would cost me more money to actually buy such a device when I have no real other purpose for one (and with a couple recent events I'm not massively happy with Amazon as a whole and has got me very wary of purchasing other things from their various services for the moment) when I actually just want to run it on Android devices mostly because that is the OS that my phone and the phones of many of my friends run (yes the others run iOS but I don't care about that as it would require more silliness mostly on the part of Apple)

    Fine. Forget it. I just won't be making anything for Android then. No big deal. Moving on.

    Didn't see this comment but yeah your definition of 'ridiculously cheap' has always been different from mine. You're actually successful and have a career. I'm a total waste of space. :p
     
  41. rIKmAN

    rIKmAN Member

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    There was no tone in my first post, I suggested saving towards buying GMS2 Mobile while you continued to use 1.4 Android until support stops in July because people don't generally miss £5-10 a week as opposed to a £300 outlay in one lump sum.

    You took it as me talking to you like a child and replied with an attitude, but that's on you.

    We've all spent money on modules - many of us much more than you - but we made a decision as to whether we thought it was a good investment for us as individuals and acted accordingly.

    If you are just making fun games for you and your mates I can see why it might not be good value for you personally, but for many of us it's an investment that we intend to recoup, and others find it an acceptable price for a hobby they enjoy - the cost per hour ratio of buying it works out way less than something like going to the cinema for example.

    Ultimately if using the Fire Module is not something you want to do then your options are to either save up as best you can and keep an eye out for sales, wait for as long as it takes for the Mobile Module to fall in price until you think it's acceptable value for you personally, or throw a strop about it and "never make anything for Android."

    Good luck whichever route you choose.
     
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  42. Mike

    Mike nobody important GMC Elder

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    LOL... no you're not. :)

    The cheapest fire tablet I've seen is £35, for a tablet - that is actually reasonably powerful, it's incredibly cheap. For hardware like this to be cheaper than many console games... that's why I call it 'ridiculously cheap.

    And yes, the Fire module is a special deal Amazon has paid for. For anyone wanting to sell stuff, then this is a cheaper way to get into the market, make a little money, then upgrade.

    There are currently no plans to split the modules I'm afraid.
     
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  43. zendraw

    zendraw Member

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    i want to ask somthing, exactly when are you guys planning on releasing a stable GMS1.9 ? and why at that time.
     
  44. Mike

    Mike nobody important GMC Elder

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    We're only on V1.4.XXX. The next version - whenever it's done, will still be a 1.4. I can't say when it'll be I'm afraid.
     
  45. zendraw

    zendraw Member

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    what can you say about 1.9?
     
  46. Mike

    Mike nobody important GMC Elder

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    There is no 1.9, nor will there be. I have no idea where you getting that number from.
     
  47. rIKmAN

    rIKmAN Member

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    The EA I would guess - v1.99.551
     
  48. zendraw

    zendraw Member

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  49. Mike

    Mike nobody important GMC Elder

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    There won't be any more EA versions, they'll all be 1.4 beta versions. EA was for new features, there are no more new features.

    The last stable 1.4 is more up to date than the last EA version.
     
  50. BlueSlime

    BlueSlime Member

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    well seeing as how i can't open gms2 because of some 500 server error I'm glad i still have 1.4 to test on at least so I hope it gets supported for a long time yet
     
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