OFFICIAL New, More Affordable Pricing For Sharing and Publishing Games

Just to say, usually hobbies do cost something and you don't expect to get paid from them. Many hobbies have equipment and membership costs etc., and if you think that way, GMS isn't that expensive 🤷 but gamedev as hobby, you might actually get something back, but that should be taken just as extra. If you are instead doing it for business, then again it shouldn't be that big of price or something is wrong 😅

TLTR: think subscription as membership cost
for a hobby.
I don’t completely disagree but you are going into some mental gymnastics there to justify the change to a subscription model which most people don’t like.

That being said I switched over to gms2 when construct3 went the subscription route.

But I think GMS2 is very fair in the way they did it. If we compare construct to GMS2, constructs free trial is limited and I don’t even remember if you’re allowed to export at all. With GMS2 it’s fully free to learn and we will have the OperaGX export option it’s it’s much better even if you’re someone who does not like the subscription model.
At some point when you get serious and want to export to sell you’re game you could very well just pay for one month and fix any bugs you find within that time.

I think once you get to the point we’re you are making some kind of money or at least break even for 1 month cost of subscription then I think it’s pretty worth it in the end.

The people who absolutely refuse to go subscription model will most likely move on to Godot or other open source/free engines I would imagine.
 

Sad

Member
It baffles me that when YYG announced the switch to subscription only, all those content creators rushed to make a videos to bash it. But when YYG announced the free exports, they doesn't seem to bother covering it at all. And when I take look at the comments, I just can't comprehend how some people's brain works.

Youtube Videos: GameMaker goes Subscription Only
Dude 1: "Goodbye GameMaker, Welcome Unity"
Dude 2: "That sucks! Glad I switched to Unity!"
Dude 3: "I knew I made the right decision when I switched to Unity"
Me: wtf did I just read



 

Nocturne

Friendly Tyrant
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which most people don’t like.
I do wish people would stop saying this. Say YOU don't like it but please don't talk about "most people". It's false. You cannot possibly know what most people like or dislike when there are hundreds of thousands of users and only a vocal few have spoken out against it, and only a vocal few have spoken out in favour of it (as this topic shows it's a pretty even split, tbh). The truth is that only YYG has the numbers and are in a position to say what "most people" like/dislike, and they will no doubt change things as required based on that hard data... 😉👍
 
I do wish people would stop saying this. Say YOU don't like it but please don't talk about "most people". It's false. [snip]
There's a dislike counter on the first post: Most people don't like it. It's not a good idea to pretend that this discussion should be inclusive of all the thousands of people "not" on this forum, who are a part of this discussion, which we couldn't possibly know how they feel.

So yes, he can be free to say most people don't like it, and it's certainly not false.. even if perhaps he should qualify it with most people on this forum don't like it. (It goes without saying that within the context of the topic, that is what he means...)
 

Coded Games

Member
It baffles me that when YYG announced the switch to subscription only, all those content creators rushed to make a videos to bash it. But when YYG announced the free exports, they doesn't seem to bother covering it at all. And when I take look at the comments, I just can't comprehend how some people's brain works.

Youtube Videos: GameMaker goes Subscription Only
Dude 1: "Goodbye GameMaker, Welcome Unity"
Dude 2: "That sucks! Glad I switched to Unity!"
Dude 3: "I knew I made the right decision when I switched to Unity"
Me: wtf did I just read



That is just how the world works. People report on things that are negative or factually incorrect all the time and never report changes or corrections. See it all the time


There's a dislike counter on the first post: Most people don't like it.
Right now it’s at 25 negative reactions vs 22 positive reactions. That’s pretty dang close.
 
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Nocturne

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There's a dislike counter on the first post: Most people don't like it. It's not a good idea to pretend that this discussion should be inclusive of all the thousands of people "not" on this forum, who are a part of this discussion, which we couldn't possibly know how they feel.
1630318748729.png

Dislike + Angry == 23
Like + Love = 23

(I am not including the others as I would consider them as ambiguous, but even being generous and applying the "sad" to the dislike group and the difference is two votes... certainly not enough to claim "most").

as this topic shows it's a pretty even split, tbh
;)

Note that all I am saying is that by using phrases like "most people" the ones that say this are projecting their own bias into the conversation under the guise of the opinion of "everyone else". It's a kind of psychological crutch and form of peer pressure that is commonly used by people trying to sway others without taking full responsibility for their own opinions. I'd also add that LOGICALLY it's impossible for anyone to know what "most people" think. One can only really know what one's own self thinks and anything else is either speculation or projection or a combination of both unless you have concrete data to back it up. I try to speak about myself only and when I talk about others I try to back up what I say with the relevant data - like my 50/50 split comment above... I have the data on this topic and so can back up my claim.
 

gnysek

Member
Counting likes doesn't have sense, as it's normal than people who have negative opinion will share it, cause they doesn't like change and would like to revert it, while those who have neutral or positive opinion are happy with them, so they don't need to put any addition to it (except of congratulations etc., or to defense it). Also, some people wrote a post instead of pressing "Like" button, so it's even harder to count it.

But as we can see, even some of those who had negative attitude from begging, are starting to see positive aspects, as indeed those changes aren't that bad, if we analyze them deeply. There's only one case in which new pricing model might seems to be more expensive, and it applies only for those who didn't had chosen license yet, and wanted to buy that one license some day. Still that downside doesn't apply on them before total cost of subscription exceed previous license of their preference price, so it's at least one year in most cases (depending how many licenses you already have - cause maybe they can get some subscription time for free). All that is rather long term, and applies to small amount of users.
Saying that this is completely wrong decision is rather emotional comment only, saying that someones see some downsides is a polite discussion.
 
(I am not including the others as I would consider them as ambiguous, but even being generous and applying the "sad" to the dislike group and the difference is two votes... certainly not enough to claim "most").
Err... really, Nocturne. 😂

I mean, why don't we ignore love as well.. that's "ambigiuos".. they're probably just fans of rmanthorp. That makes it 22-17 which is a much better number that matches what I want to say.

I'm not fussed either way; you can swing it one more by liking it yourself, and I'm pretty much neutral on the topic, so I'm not a like or dislike either way. The point is that this is generally speaking an unpopular decision in the community here.

Note that all I am saying is that by using phrases like "most people" the ones that say this are projecting their own bias into the conversation under the guise of the opinion of "everyone else". It's a kind of psychological crutch and form of peer pressure that is commonly used by people trying to sway others without taking full responsibility for their own opinions. I'd also add that LOGICALLY it's impossible for anyone to know what "most people" think. One can only really know what one's own self thinks and anything else is either speculation or projection or a combination of both unless you have concrete data to back it up. I try to speak about myself only and when I talk about others I try to back up what I say with the relevant data - like my 50/50 split comment above... I have the data on this topic and so can back up my claim.
I'm fully aware of the the psychology of this topic; and the peer pressure of it. You're a great guy; you're very popular in the community and a great ambassador for GM. You're also the first person to reply to the topic, praising the decision enthusiastically, and have worked overtime (literally!) replying to negative comments defending YYG's decision. (7 replies in the first page alone, 6 on the next, etc).

This has a great psychological factor, and I hope.. well, I know YYG's understands well how important it is to have someone like you championing like this. Because this is a massively unpopular decision, and despite your ardent defense of it, it's still unpopular on this forum. You're so enthusiastically in favour of defending the change, that you're putting blinkers on Nocturne, if you can't see that.


Right now it’s at 25 negative reactions vs 22 positive reactions. That’s pretty dang close.
That's a horrific ratio for a company announcement. (objectively. )
 
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Nocturne

Friendly Tyrant
Forum Staff
Admin
This has a great psychological factor, and I hope.. well, I know YYG's understands well how important it is to have someone like you championing like this.
Absolutely, you are quite correct. But I'd like to just say that, even though I am admin of the GMC and have a certain responsibility towards GM and YYG, I am NOT posting out of cynicism or sense of duty, etc... I post because I DO 100% support this move. If I didn't I may still post, but more than likely it would be simply to moderate and not give an opinion.

Because this is a massively unpopular decision, and despite your ardent defense of it, it's still unpopular on this forum.
I would disagree with your comment about it being unpopular on this forum though. Like I say, i think that on this forum it's a fifty/fifty split amongst those that have an opinion either way... In fact I'd honestly think that it's probably swinging towards people being happy with the change more than against it. Why? Because happy people don't generally post. They're happy so what have they got to complain about??? My own experience has shown that - on this community -people are very fast to voice negative opinions but less likely to voice positive ones. Why? No idea, but I suspect its all related to unhappy people want to be heard, happy people just don't have that need.

But, anyway, I honestly support this decision and reply out of genuine love for GM and NOT out of any brand loyalty or cynical sense of duty.
 
Absolutely, you are quite correct. But I'd like to just say that, even though I am admin of the GMC and have a certain responsibility towards GM and YYG, I am NOT posting out of cynicism or sense of duty, etc... I post because I DO 100% support this move. If I didn't I may still post, but more than likely it would be simply to moderate and not give an opinion.


I would disagree with your comment about it being unpopular on this forum though. Like I say, i think that on this forum it's a fifty/fifty split amongst those that have an opinion either way... In fact I'd honestly think that it's probably swinging towards people being happy with the change more than against it. Why? Because happy people don't generally post. They're happy so what have they got to complain about??? My own experience has shown that - on this community -people are very fast to voice negative opinions but less likely to voice positive ones. Why? No idea, but I suspect its all related to unhappy people want to be heard, happy people just don't have that need.

But, anyway, I honestly support this decision and reply out of genuine love for GM and NOT out of any brand loyalty or cynical sense of duty.
People post negative comments usually because something bad happened in the context of GMS. They want to see if they are not alone in their unhappiness. Also people do post when they are happy else this place would be 100% negative posts. Your argument doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
 

Nocturne

Friendly Tyrant
Forum Staff
Admin
People post negative comments usually because something bad happened in the context of GMS. They want to see if they are not alone in their unhappiness.
Exactly!
Also people do post when they are happy else this place would be 100% negative posts.
I never said they didn't. I said they are LESS LIKELY to post, and my experience on these forums has proven to me that this is almost always the case. I know of at least a dozen members who are perfectly happy with this change but have not posted in this topic because they have nothing constructive to add tot he conversation or because they can't be bothered with the drama, etc... (I know this because I talk with them through channels outside of the GMC). Keep in mind, I'm not talking from a position of ignorance here... I've been Admin of this forum for a decade now so I'm talking from a position of looooong experience. ;)
 
You likely have Netflix, Spotify or any other number of subscription services. Software like Gamemaker is a service too. It's ever evolving and so requires a lot of upkeep. The fact that it hasn't been a subscription until now is surprising. As a business they are going to make the decisions that make the most sense from their perspective in order to continue functioning. This includes making you and others that share your opinion happy. I understand they may not have done that here, but it's not because they didn't consider it and were out to screw you guys. It's just a matter of business and the very minimal subscription model they have chosen is to bridge the gap with the indie community and hobbyists which they knew was going to create backlash like we are seeing in this thread.

No one likes to pay for things, but I think looking at what you are getting for your money should be the focus, rather than what you used to get. Things change, and prices go up over time. Why would we expect anything different with Gamemaker?

I wish I didn't have to pay for Netflix each month. Why can't we just pay $100 once for Netflix for life? (just so I don't have to defend this - I'm being facetious).
I think this answers you:
One of the key differences here is in the wording; you obviously view Gamemaker as a service; and rationalize as such. All good, and I'm happy that the new pricing scheme works for you.

Other people view GM as a tool, or like any other software they own on their pc. And most developers are very reluctant to lock themselves into using proprietary software to begin with; let alone one that has an ongoing cost. It's not very hard to understand this.

For people mocking 'cheap people who don't want to pay a subscription'; please stop. It isn't helpful. While I'm happy that for you the subscription just means skipping your Starbucks for the month, many people are in very different states of financial wellbeing; such subscription plans are the bane of most people in a bad financial place. Please respect people who have no desire to sign up for a subscription model; even if you can't understand it.
And NO, the only subscriptions I have is my Internet, Electricity and Insurance Bills. I DO NOT pay for Netflix or any other subscriptions. And the day Microsoft Windows will choose to be on a subscription model, that day, I will be using The latest available Windows that does not require supscription. And for Office, I paid office 2007 and still use it up to this day because I hate their new flat White GUI.

And YES, I still use GM 8.1 and I try to avoid GMS 1.4 because it obliges you to create a project before opening the app. Yes, I still use the OLD windows GM 8.1 style for my IDE because I am comfortable with it and because I am much more productive that way.

We are all human beings with different wallets, different priorities and different time schedules. I've been wanting to upload my new Skyrim SE Guide since past 1 year now but I can't because I have no time because...LIFE. So worrying about paying for a subscription of a software I don't use for months and then come back to it with a suprise subscription model for possible futur updates. Of course I am upset.

As I stated before, I understand the subscription model temptation for companies. But it should only offer side perks such as faster support, access to alpha and beta channels. You know, like a Patreon style where they may offer free apps but ONLY once the official build has released relying on subscribers to pay monthly to help them financially but give the supporters the benefit of having a word in the production.

I would plainly assume this model without saying a word. I want to have a 1 time payment plan, then I assume that the staff will take my requests last and prioritise all those on the subscription plan. I'm fine with that and I understand it and I will be happy with it. You know why? Because initially, when I used Game Maker, I never said a word to help it and it pleased me as it was. I only started saying something when GMS2 appeared with a complete GUI overhaul that interfered with all of those hard worked years. And guess what, I was heard, I was blasted and I was not considered. BUT, I'm still here because I cannot complain over an app I paid once.

Here's a small overview of how disastrous YYG did things that made me waste money for absolutely NOTHING!

• I paid GMS1 the full upgrade price
• They offered huge discounts for the export modules
• I made my first Android game - FINALLY
• A few months after their sale, they plucked out GMS 1 and made GMS 2
• NOW, all my export modules do not work anymore (Those I payed for, my licenses don't want to activate in the app)
• No more support for GMS 1.4
• GMS 2, that I paid for, did not offer me an alternative to my android export so no more android export for me
• Now, we are at a subscription model for futur GMS releases

How do you want me to be happy when the money I spent initially, cheap or not, ends up useless? I lost my export modeules that I so much waited for. Yeah, it's cheap for some of you, me, it's hard earned money, money I could have spent on beef instead of pork at the grocery. Money I could have used for fresh chicken instead of frozen nuggets. When I look at all of what happened after Mark Overmars, the transfer of ownership to a big company made things less personal, less considerate to it's users and now with Opera, it get's even worst with those subscription models.

Some of us buy apps like this as a little present to ourselves, to please this little desire in us stricing to do something fun aside from watching Youtube videos or creating levels in Mario Maker. We're not big developpers. We're not the highest users on Steam and we don't appear on popular reviews on YouTube but we love what we baught and all we ask is a small piece of happiness to enjoy simple things without being constrained with shelling out money every month on top of our life necessities. And most of all, not loose what we paid for with our sweat and time.

**edit**: If YYG/Opera, would decide to to give all of us, previous GMS 1.4 users at least 2 permanent export modules (if we already previously baught them) for GMS 2 to compensate our losses, this would calm a lot of us down. I have 4 different export modules but I actually only use 2, Desktop and Android, the others, I don't use that often or at all. That's not a waste of money or resources on YYG's part. And it would be a good heart action for all of us who suffered the passed YYG decisions and shelled out money into things that do not work anymore. This would also make us more willing to encourage YYG again.
 
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samspade

Member
How do you want me to be happy when the money I spent initially, cheap or not, ends up useless? I lost my export modeules that I so much waited for. Yeah, it's cheap for some of you, me, it's hard earned money, money I could have spent on beef instead of pork at the grocery. Money I could have used for fresh chicken instead of frozen nuggets. When I look at all of what happened after Mark Overmars, the transfer of ownership to a big company made things less personal, less considerate to it's users and now with Opera, it get's even worst with those subscription models.
I don't like subscriptions either, but I'm okay with them for services that really are ongoing. And this right here demonstrates why GameMaker is an ongoing service. It isn't that GameMaker took away anything that you paid for. Everything you paid for you got. What happened was software changed and you didn't want to pay for anyone to do the work necessary to accommodate those changes. Which is fine, but you shouldn't act like this is YoYo's fault.

YoYo is doing continual work to make sure their product improves and keeps up with all of the new requirements that come up for all of the different platforms that people want to publish to. In the past they offered permanent licenses, and released new versions that people needed to buy in order to keep up with changing platforms. Now they are offering subscriptions. There are differences, and there's nothing wrong with wanting a permanent license version, I'd prefer that as well, but it's hypocritical to say the subscription model is bad because GameMaker is not a service and then say that YoYo should have kept working and providing you with free support for years to come.
 
I'd prefer that as well, but it's hypocritical to say the subscription model is bad because GameMaker is not a service and then say that YoYo should have kept working and providing you with free support for years to come.
I'll clarify something here as, like most people, there is a difference between services and apps. GameMaker Studio is NOT and will NEVER be a service, GameMaker Studio is an APPLICATION/SOFTWARE/PROGRAM. Customer support, bug reports, asset uploads and YYG Store are all SERVICES. That they limit my SERVICES and only grant me an application use, I raise my hand and accept. I am not too happy but I won't make a fuss about it, time's evolve and YYG require more employees. They charge a price to upgrade to the new version? Okay! It's bothering me, I'm not really happy, but I understand! They rewrote the entire IDE, had a team to rethink the whole thing and make things more stable and functional, that's something that is worth paying, I assume it. But a subscription model for the ENTIRE package including the APP, THAT'S unacceptable. Might as well make GMS an online only tool with no more apps. In which case it will be considered a service.

I won't hide myself, I used keygens and cracks to use Game Maker 5 until I was able to pay myself a license and have it legally. How much time do you think it will take for people to hack GMS2, bypass the activation and even make the exports available for free? Seriously, this model simply encourages people to stop paying for it and search for whatever available cracked version exists. And what do you think will happen in the futur where people will simply concentrate on old versions and publish games with them just because GMS2 is subscription model?

Of course, there's always the super hero dudes and dudettes that fully encourage this type of trash-subscription thinking they are the voice of the app they purchased. I'm just saying that this model is hindering the credibility and reducing the respect most of us, long GM users, have. We'll just be less present in the forums and one day simply dissapear from them out of lack of interest.

Just look at the YYG store page. I remmeber back when GM had an entirely different page for games. That was the fun days where games could be uploaded, shared in their pure EXE or ZIP format. The exchange and developpement was just incredible and the user/player communication was great. It started it' downfall when ads were added on the sides of the pages. I even had to report inapropriate ad banners. From that day, when ads started, this was GM's downfall. No comming back because of the greed for money. And then YYG came in the game and started to add a banner in the app itself in GM7 and today, as if the small ad banner was not enough, we are greeted with a banner that takes up almost half the screen before opening our project. I paid for an app which displays ads when normally, we pay to get rid of them. And now, they are offering me to continuously pay for ads, baners, slower responssive interface, more complexe use of almost everything because of the weird workspace layout.

I am most definately NOT saying that YYG should provid free services. Im just saying that with all the background of bad decisions, a small good hearted reset would not be bad. After that, they can choose to let us pay to upgrade to what ever other version they may come up with, but at least, right now, there's just to many years of bad decisions to bring back some of us and adding a subscription plan is just making things a heck of a lot worst.

As many have said, subscription is for SERVICES not apps. As you can see one of my posts, I have listed a bunch of apps that DO NOT require any subscription EVEN free because I am against subscription models in all degrees.

When I moved in my new appartment, I had no internet for a while. I had to wait for IT and I did not even have the required equipement yet. So what do you think I did? I opened up GM 8.1 and passed my time until my internet got back. When my internet service is out, what do you think I do? I open up my local apps and games to play and create. Relying on subscription models makes life difficult for many of us and noone has the right to impose us a way of thinking. We respect you who accept subscription, and you must respect us who hate subscriptions and more-over, have been there to support this program, I repeat, this PROGRAM, since it's birth.
 
Hey guys, I have some questions. I apologize if these have been answered before, as this topic is 18 pages long. I have read some of it, but I have not read every single post.

1. I am a perpetual license holder with the Desktop, Web and Mobile Export Modules. For me, is there anything in the Indie License that I don't already have? I can "upgrade" to an Indie License for 48 months or something, but as far as I can tell, it's not an "upgrade" at all. Is it only phrased this way because others may have a perpetual license without Mobile Exports?

2. Alternatively, I have the option to upgrade to the Enterprise package for 6 months. I can certainly see the value in that. While I have no use for it at the present time, I would (eventually) like to export a long-term project to the XBox and the Nintendo Switch. I've heard murmerings that these "free upgrades" are somewhat time sensitive and will start ticking January 1st, 2022. Is there any truth in that? I sure hope not. I would eventually like to use mine, and the $480 in savings would be a blessing.

Again, I'm sorry if these questions have been answered already. Just trying to understand the changes. Thanks in advance.
 

Coded Games

Member
Basically subscriptions for GameMaker have always existed. You buy a version, use it until the newest comes out, and then the older version dies and becomes unusable. That's happened for basically all versions of GameMaker except the GMS 2. This software lifecycle remains true for basically all permanently licensed software. Is the version of Photoshop I bought 10 years ago still useable? Nope. Does the virtual machine software I bought 8 years ago still work? Also nope. Does any 32-bit software I bought still work? Nope (thanks Apple).

So taking into the account the inevitable software lifecycle, is GameMaker now more expensive? The answer to that is obviously it depends. The question people need to ask themselves is how often they export their games. Luckily, I have been working on one project for the last 3 years, I have a discord for it (*cough* http://decksofdexterity.com/discord), and every time I post a new version of the game I make a post in the releases channel. So with this I can calculate the exact cost GameMaker would have been for me for the last 3 years.... Drum roll... Crunching numbers... Using Excel (which is also a subscription).......... $160 since August of 2018. I exported my game a total of 28 times over 16 unique months. The breakdown would be $40 in 2018, $30 in 2019, $80 in 2020, and so far only $10 in 2021. So for me GameMaker costs just over $4 a month. Since even when I'm not exporting I'm still working on the game every month, development time is free with this subscription model.

Ultimately all I really care about is how much stuff costs. I don't have a stigma against subscriptions like everyone here does. I use GameMaker semi-professionally and will always buy nearly all exports of the latest version whenever the next version of GameMaker comes out. And since we can look at the past, we know that new versions do come out very 5 to 7ish years and they would be hundreds of dollars. At the current pace I'm fairly sure the subscription would be less for me. So yeah, and I get more exports!
 
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Coded Games

Member
Hey guys, I have some questions. I apologize if these have been answered before, as this topic is 18 pages long. I have read some of it, but I have not read every single post.

1. I am a perpetual license holder with the Desktop, Web and Mobile Export Modules. For me, is there anything in the Indie License that I don't already have? I can "upgrade" to an Indie License for 48 months or something, but as far as I can tell, it's not an "upgrade" at all. Is it only phrased this way because others may have a perpetual license without Mobile Exports?

2. Alternatively, I have the option to upgrade to the Enterprise package for 6 months. I can certainly see the value in that. While I have no use for it at the present time, I would (eventually) like to export a long-term project to the XBox and the Nintendo Switch. I've heard murmerings that these "free upgrades" are somewhat time sensitive and will start ticking January 1st, 2022. I sure hope not. I would eventually like to use mine, and the $480 in savings would be a blessing.

Again, I'm sorry if these questions have been answered already. Just trying to understand the changes. Thanks in advance.
1. You get UWP for 48 months.

2. I am in the same camp and am holding onto the 6 months of enterprise. Hopefully if Yoyo were ever to say that the free upgrade months are ending they would give us plenty of time in advance to use them. Right now there is nothing saying that the free upgrades are set to expire.
 

Nocturne

Friendly Tyrant
Forum Staff
Admin
@SilentxxBunny: as mentioned you'd now also get the UWP export, but other than that just means you have 4 years of use without having to pay a penny, which is in itself a pretty good deal, imho. As for the pro/ultimate offer, it might be good if @rmanthorp could clarify whether the months on offer for subscribing will count down from Jan 2022 or not. My understanding was no, it won't count down until you subscribe, but what you WILL lose is the extra months that are added for the time between now and January. I could be wrong however so a little clarity would be great to make sure we all understand the situation.
 
When I moved in my new appartment, I had no internet for a while. I had to wait for IT and I did not even have the required equipement yet. So what do you think I did? I opened up GM 8.1 and passed my time until my internet got back. When my internet service is out, what do you think I do? I open up my local apps and games to play and create. Relying on subscription models makes life difficult for many of us and noone has the right to impose us a way of thinking. We respect you who accept subscription, and you must respect us who hate subscriptions and more-over, have been there to support this program, I repeat, this PROGRAM, since it's birth.
You can still use the free version of GMS2; Fingers crossed, it'll still basically be fully featured, and able to export to OperaFX; This whole payment change system was badly announced, but it's actually not as bad as you might think.

I can fully understand your concern, but time will tell; I think you'll still be able to have a great time with GMS2, without ever having to pay a dime.
 

Coded Games

Member
Another benefit of the subscription is it has less overhead and gives us more control over our money. When YYG was bought by PlayTech I felt like the future of GM was a bit more unsure. We went months without major updates. If you bought GameMaker you were locked in, your money was spent. Gone.

Now we have some more degree of security. Some hypothetical scenarios of varying realism: Buy GameMaker and hate the interface? Cancel your subscription. Opera does something ultra stupid like releasing GMS 3 and then immediately kills YYG? You can dip and cancel your subscription. Subscribe to Indie and quickly realize your game doesn’t work with HTML5? If that was the only platform you wanted, you can cancel your subscription. Developing your game and run into some bug in GameMaker that YYG hasn’t fixed for 17 years? Well cancel your subscription and wait till they fix it.
 
You can still use the free version of GMS2; Fingers crossed, it'll still basically be fully featured, and able to export to OperaFX; This whole payment change system was badly announced, but it's actually not as bad as you might think.

I can fully understand your concern, but time will tell; I think you'll still be able to have a great time with GMS2, without ever having to pay a dime.
FIRST - Thank you for the respectfull comment!

I baught GMS2 not for the free version but for AT LEAST desktop export. I also tried Opera GX (not FX, just correcting). I used this browser and I am not impressed at all by it. Aside from a fresh coat of paint and high tech memory/CPU options that I don't really take care of, it does nothing more than what Edge/Firefox or other equivalents do and as I stated above, I totally am not into that forced startup page. AND, this also obliges to USE Opera GX to be able to play AND forces my other friends and family to use a browser they do not use just to play my game. Trust me on this, I've been in the tech industry long enough to know that most people keep their prefered browser because the password, forms and bookmarks handling is too tiresome to transfer even when the browser supports the inter-browser data transfers, there's always a hickup and people just don't want to learn a new interface.

BUT, I do agree with one thing, for now, as you said "time will tell". As a devoted GM user and having paid previously for it, I still take into consideration my right of speech for the futur and hope that the devs will take a good look and consider everyone's comments and posts.
 
I baught GMS2 not for the free version but for AT LEAST desktop export. I also tried Opera GX (not FX, just correcting). I used this browser and I am not impressed at all by it. Aside from a fresh coat of paint and high tech memory/CPU options that I don't really take care of, it does nothing more than what Edge/Firefox or other equivalents do and as I stated above,
Oops; I'm from Java world, I'm use to FX 😂

Just to note that; the new OperaGX export will actually not be compatible with other browers (Edge/Firefox/Chrome); It's going to be a brand new format: only for OperaGX This could be either an almighty flop, or it could be a fantastic opportunity for GM devs:

Its not the HTML5 export! that is all I will say just now....

It is compatible with the standard VM C++ runner and we are still sorting out some edge cases around network, audio and window size etc... but it is exciting...

Russell
The web market is a mess right now; Flash is dead. HTML5 games are confused; they think they need to be for mobile, and then pc users struggle to find games to play. A C++ runner embedded in the browser could be a game changer. Or not.. time will tell.. but one has to be optimistic about it. Opera is a "big" dollar company, and they are sinking $$$ into this.

It's possible we shouldn't view OperaGX as just another webbrowser; and maybe more like a Web Browser/Steam chimera. Might take some getting use to, but could be cool.
 

GGJuanPabon

Member
One of the key differences here is in the wording; you obviously view Gamemaker as a service; and rationalize as such. All good, and I'm happy that the new pricing scheme works for you.

Other people view GM as a tool, or like any other software they own on their pc. And most developers are very reluctant to lock themselves into using proprietary software to begin with; let alone one that has an ongoing cost. It's not very hard to understand this.

For people mocking 'cheap people who don't want to pay a subscription'; please stop. It isn't helpful. While I'm happy that for you the subscription just means skipping your Starbucks for the month, many people are in very different states of financial wellbeing; such subscription plans are the bane of most people in a bad financial place. Please respect people who have no desire to sign up for a subscription model; even if you can't understand it.
No software is yours, the terms and conditions of all companies limit the useful life based on media, versions and technology, therefore the software that you think you have for you at some point will be obsolete and no one will answer you for it. Even if you don't like the subscription model, it is much cheaper than buying it. Since you only need a maximum of 2 months to publish a video game and then you can stop paying, and use the free one until you have the next publication. How many publications do you make per year? Did you take advantage of the permanent software? Or is it just a whim because you don't read the terms and conditions and believe that the software code is yours? I reply to you, but I am writing to all who believe that the permanent system was better.
 

HayManMarc

Member
I'm fine with paying a subscription for gamemaker because it is paying for the service of upkeep and maintenance of the software. I get it.

But this whole argument of "the software isn't yours, you can never own the software" is a bogus argument, in my opinion.

If I buy a hardback book for 15-20 bucks, I own the book. Of course!... I don't own the words written in the book! Duh. But I own the book and I can put it on my shelf and let it sit for two years if I want to. I can pick it up and read it at my leisure without worrying about having to pay a fee. Ever. Perhaps it's a book about programming? Then, I'd better read it soon before it becomes outdated, but thats on me. I'm not renting the book or subscribing to that book. I own it. Again, I don't own the subject matter contained inside, but that doesn't matter. I own the book and can use it freely whenever I want for the rest of my life.

Purchasing software at a one-off price is exactly the same thing as buying a book. If I want an update to my book (or the sequel), I'd have to buy a new one. But I still have the one I bought and I can keep using it for whatever it's worth.

Just my 2 cents.
 

gnysek

Member
Purchasing software at a one-off price is exactly the same thing as buying a book.
Not exactly. I still have license for GM5,6,7,8. Can I activate any of it? Nope. Can I use it then without activation? Nope without virtual machine (they won't work on Windows 10), and in some cases not without crack, which would be against EULA, and while that's not piracy in that case (I've got invoice and license), it's still illegal (modifying licensed software).
Can I read a book bought in 2003 which isn't printed anymore? Yes.
Can I use software bought in 2003 which isn't developed anymore? Nope.
It's exactly... different.
 
Not exactly. I still have license for GM5,6,7,8. Can I activate any of it? Nope. Can I use it then without activation? Nope without virtual machine (they won't work on Windows 10), and in some cases not without crack, which would be against EULA, and while that's not piracy in that case (I've got invoice and license), it's still illegal (modifying licensed software).
Can I read a book bought in 2003 which isn't printed anymore? Yes.
Can I use software bought in 2003 which isn't developed anymore? Nope.
It's exactly... different.
I get your point, but I'm pretty sure the license for GM5 and 6 work still. GM7 and 8 used online validation services (Softwrap, then YYG's custom service), so they probably don't work.
Most (older) versions of GM are still somewhat usable. If I recall, Nocturne recently entered a joke game into a jam made with GM version..1?
 
@gnysek: you took his general example and turned it into a specific one of a program with annoying activation methods. There's plenty of software you can buy and use forever, which is how software should be, in my opinion.
 

Toque

Member
Not exactly. I still have license for GM5,6,7,8. Can I activate any of it? Nope. Can I use it then without activation? Nope without virtual machine (they won't work on Windows 10), and in some cases not without crack, which would be against EULA, and while that's not piracy in that case (I've got invoice and license), it's still illegal (modifying licensed software).
Can I read a book bought in 2003 which isn't printed anymore? Yes.
Can I use software bought in 2003 which isn't developed anymore? Nope.
It's exactly... different.

Just trying to think of what software I purchased in 2003 that I would still use or expect to still run........ None that I can think of. I have a iMac running software perfectly fine from 2007. Not sure what the accepted life of a piece of software would even be......
 
Just trying to think of what software I purchased in 2003 that I would still use or expect to still run........ None that I can think of. I have a iMac running software perfectly fine from 2007. Not sure what the accepted life of a piece of software would even be......
I have DOS games from the early 90s that I can still activate and use, hahah! Once you buy something, you should own it! =)
 

Cpaz

Member
I have DOS games from the early 90s that I can still activate and use, hahah! Once you buy something, you should own it! =)
Agreed, but unfortunately, this doesn't really apply here.

People still seem to be trying to treat a professional tool as a hobbyist tool.
If we were still in the GMS1.x / GMx days, yes. This would be a terrible and dumb move. Because noone really used Game maker as a professional tool at the time.

Now things have changed significantly. Between new management and a new vision, with what looks to be an incredibly quick and equitable expansion, the old model wasn't sustainable. Heck, I'm shocked they let us keep our permanent licenses (but grateful, mind you).

The sour reality is that Game Maker Studio 2 has really become a service over the past few years, between the constant updates and upkeep. Especially with the aforementioned expansion thanks to Opera.

Believe me, I don't care for that reality much either. This is all coming from someone who still buys music records and physical copies of games because I hate a future that only has streaming and digital storefronts, for reference.
But as they say, the times do be a-changin'.
 

Dog Slobber

Member
Not exactly. I still have license for GM5,6,7,8. Can I activate any of it? Nope. Can I use it then without activation? Nope without virtual machine (they won't work on Windows 10), and in some cases not without crack, which would be against EULA, and while that's not piracy in that case (I've got invoice and license), it's still illegal (modifying licensed software).
Can I read a book bought in 2003 which isn't printed anymore? Yes.
Can I use software bought in 2003 which isn't developed anymore? Nope.
It's exactly... different.
I have some some records, that I can't use because I don't a record player.
I have some cassette tapes, that I can't use because I don't have a cassete player.
I have some VHS movies, that I can't use because I don't have a VHS player.

The fact that the technology is no longer available for me to access the content, is not relavant to my ownership.
 
Not exactly. I still have license for GM5,6,7,8. Can I activate any of it? Nope. Can I use it then without activation? Nope without virtual machine (they won't work on Windows 10), and in some cases not without crack, which would be against EULA, and while that's not piracy in that case (I've got invoice and license), it's still illegal (modifying licensed software).
Can I read a book bought in 2003 which isn't printed anymore? Yes.
Can I use software bought in 2003 which isn't developed anymore? Nope.
It's exactly... different.
I am correcting you that GM 4,5 and 8 all work on Windows 10 and Windows 11 in my case AND all keys can be activated without any issues because the licenses were used on a in-app registration and required no online access to activate. And YES, you can use a software you bought years ago legally. I can still install and use Microsoft Office 2007 with my past legal key. Same goes with Game Maker 5 and 8 (6 is disastrous and does not work and 7 was a failed online activation attempt which never really worked that well so impossible to activate). I kept the installers and my keys and they all work perfectly on Windows 10 EVEN without compatibility options enabled for V5.3 and 8.1. Version 8.1 of GM stalls at the update window. But you can close it and go into your GameMaker folder in your users Roaming folder and the app can be found there. For some reason, the installer installs a password protected zip file and the updater unpacks it which contains the actual app. AND you cannot move that folder into a custom place. For some other weird reason, GM8.1 needs to be ran from the roaming folder. Same thing for GMS 1.4, it needs to run in the roaming folder. But, anyways, as I am answering, these old versions of Game Maker still work without any issues as long as you stay with GM 4, 5.3 or 8.1 and of course, GMS 1.4.
 
I get the feeling that most people are looking at this as being worst then what it actually is.

1. If you were to buy Mobile+Web+UWP+Desktop you would spend approx. 500€. With the new Indie license you get that (and even more) for 85€ a year... that would mean you would need 5.8 years to spend the same amount of money (just put all that money in a jar and take out each year to pay that.. most of users won't even notice the difference).

2. Indie developers don't always work full time and neither do hobbyists, they have hiatus that can extend for years. License model? no problem just stop subscribing during the hiatus.

3. Other times indies/hobbyists just abandon game dev is it worth investing in a perpetual license when you actually realistically only use the software for 1 year and actually end up not releasing anything? Or some of them just want to export to iOS and then they are done.. why buy a 150€ license when you can just pay for a couple months to deploy the games.

4. Now imagine people buying the software today (using the old perpetual model) and 2 months later GMS3 gets released all the community would get angry (I'm getting a de-ja-vu here 🤣) because they have just spent 500€ and the engine is now being replaced.. with the new subscription model you are just okay. Worst case scenario you paid for an year, after that you can just renew the subscription for the new GMS3 (or whatever)


I'm fine with paying a subscription for gamemaker because it is paying for the service of upkeep and maintenance of the software. I get it.

But this whole argument of "the software isn't yours, you can never own the software" is a bogus argument, in my opinion.

If I buy a hardback book for 15-20 bucks, I own the book. Of course!... I don't own the words written in the book! Duh. But I own the book and I can put it on my shelf and let it sit for two years if I want to. I can pick it up and read it at my leisure without worrying about having to pay a fee. Ever. Perhaps it's a book about programming? Then, I'd better read it soon before it becomes outdated, but thats on me. I'm not renting the book or subscribing to that book. I own it. Again, I don't own the subject matter contained inside, but that doesn't matter. I own the book and can use it freely whenever I want for the rest of my life.

Purchasing software at a one-off price is exactly the same thing as buying a book. If I want an update to my book (or the sequel), I'd have to buy a new one. But I still have the one I bought and I can keep using it for whatever it's worth.

Just my 2 cents.
@HayManMarc I don't think that is a reasonable comparison... 🤔

That way of thinking is reasonable for art, maybe ? You buy a book, a statue, a painting, a game (static-no-updates) you pay once for it.
But after you buy them you are not entitle to updates but most important they are passive “things” meaning you don't create things with them, you passively enjoy them.

Development software is a dynamic medium which allows you to create and build your own software/games/projects. So you actually own something, you are paying to own whatever you create and not the actual "development software" itself... so static monetization models don't really apply so well.

At least that would be the way I see it.
 
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HayManMarc

Member
@HayManMarc I don't think that is a reasonable comparison... 🤔

That way of thinking is reasonable for art, maybe ? You buy a book, a statue, a painting, a game (static-no-updates) you pay once for it.
But after you buy them you are not entitle to updates but most importantly they are passive entities meaning you don't create things with them.. you passively enjoy them.

Development software is a dynamic medium which allows you to create and build your own software/games/projects. So you actually own something, you are paying to own whatever you create and not the actual "development software" itself... so static monetization models don't really apply so well.

At least that would be the way I see it.
Yeah, I kinda get that, but just to play devil's advocate... I've never had to subscribe to a video camera.
 
@HayManMarc I don't think that is a reasonable comparison... 🤔

That way of thinking is reasonable for art, maybe ? You buy a book, a statue, a painting, a game (static-no-updates) you pay once for it.
But after you buy them you are not entitle to updates but most important they are passive “things” meaning you don't create things with them, you passively enjoy them.

Development software is a dynamic medium which allows you to create and build your own software/games/projects. So you actually own something, you are paying to own whatever you create and not the actual "development software" itself... so static monetization models don't really apply so well.

At least that would be the way I see it.
Some of us would prefer to buy a permanent license for software even if it would have a limited update path. Like you buy GMS2 and then it only receives updates until a significant update like GMS2.3 comes out and then you'd have to pay to upgrade to 2.3. I would prefer that because it gives me the option to choose whether or not that update is worth the additional expense to me and if it is not, then I don't immediately lose access to the previous version like you do when cancelling subscription based software.
 
Some of us would prefer to buy a permanent license for software even if it would have a limited update path. Like you buy GMS2 and then it only receives updates until a significant update like GMS2.3 comes out and then you'd have to pay to upgrade to 2.3. I would prefer that because it gives me the option to choose whether or not that update is worth the additional expense to me and if it is not, then I don't immediately lose access to the previous version like you do when cancelling subscription based software.
But now you can build the entire game for free with all the updates and take years if you want.. and then pay only one month to publish and deploy! And that’s it, no one is keep you from doing that! I feel like I’m missing something.. 🤔

Canceling the subscription will not make you lose your projects you can still test them locally on your machine, create mechanics, prototype systems, test artwork, check playability… so basically you can build your entire game without paying anything, no?
 
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But now you can build the entire game for free with all the updates and take years if you want.. and then pay only one month to publish and deploy! And that’s it, no one is keep you from doing that! I feel like I’m missing something.. 🤔

Canceling the subscription will not make you lose your projects you can still test them locally on your machine, create mechanics, prototype systems, test artwork, check playability… so basically you can build your entire game without paying anything, no?
I'm sure that works for some people's use cases, but that's not going to work for everyone. A hobbyist isn't going to be able to send their friends test builds the free version (remember, not all of everyone's friends are going to be up for installing GMS and loading up project files) and they're not always going to be willing to drop $10 for a month's subscription just to build something for like a gamejam (before anyone says it - YYG only sponsors a small handfull of gamejams with temporary licenses, the vast majority of gamejams are not going to have that benefit).
 

FrostyCat

Member
Some of us would prefer to buy a permanent license for software even if it would have a limited update path. Like you buy GMS2 and then it only receives updates until a significant update like GMS2.3 comes out and then you'd have to pay to upgrade to 2.3. I would prefer that because it gives me the option to choose whether or not that update is worth the additional expense to me and if it is not, then I don't immediately lose access to the previous version like you do when cancelling subscription based software.
Define "significant update". In particular, is updating extensions and/or the core engine to meet an API cutover or security bulletin deadline a "significant update"?

Do you not agree that without it, the product would become genuinely useless?

Do you not agree that it happens on a more frequent basis than most of us would have preferred?

Do you not agree that it is worth paying on an ongoing basis for eyes to be kept on these things, and hands to fix them when they crop up?

To be frank, the only export at the moment that behaves anything like a static single-purchase product the way GM5 used to be, is the basic Windows VM export. Everything else has to march to the ongoing beat of something else that constantly presses on, or risk becoming completely obsolete. The Windows YYC updates are beholden to Visual Studio, UWP to the Windows Store, Mac YYC and iOS to XCode and iOS/Apple Store, Android to Google Play and Amazon Store, etc. Even the Steam-enabled version of the Windows export is beholden to the Steam API, and the IDE itself is on a deadline to switch over its rendering engine or risk early obsolescence.
I'm sure that works for some people's use cases, but that's not going to work for everyone. A hobbyist isn't going to be able to send their friends test builds the free version (remember, not all of everyone's friends are going to be up for installing GMS and loading up project files) and they're not always going to be willing to drop $10 for a month's subscription just to build something for like a gamejam (before anyone says it - YYG only sponsors a small handfull of gamejams with temporary licenses, the vast majority of gamejams are not going to have that benefit).
The thing is, they shouldn't.

I never send anything to anyone that I created with less than 6 months of experience in the respective craft. I never join a jam or any formal competition with less than 1 year of experience in the respective role. I never try to teach anything that I have less than 2 years of experience with in the respective subject matter.

This is a simple matter of knowing one's limits, having foresight, and showing respect for the subject matter at hand.

Of all times, the start of a jam is easily the WORST possible time to promote a game engine to new users. Anyone stupid enough to hop in anew will face the pressure of having to learn the engine from scratch AND making some sort of presentable product, within a time constraint designed to challenge experienced users. This is a recipe for a bad taste in everyone's mouths. The novices would blunder on basic tasks that are only "hard" because they weren't given time to pick up the essentials and let them sink in. The Q&A responders would burn out within a week's time of seeing these blunders and "SOS now" topics from people who should have prepared better.
 
Define "significant update". In particular, is updating extensions and/or the core engine to meet an API cutover or security bulletin deadline a "significant update"?
I believe I gave GMS2.3 as an example of an update that I would define as a significant update. Would calling it a "significant feature update" express my intention better?

Do you not agree that without it, the product would become genuinely useless?
I imagine my answer to this question would likely vary from update to update. Like when 2.3 released structs, functions, and the changes to multi-dimensional array syntax would've been enough to get me to buy a new version of GameMaker and I don't care to ever do without those features again. When I look at the current roadmap, I don't see anything on that list that particularly interests me or would convince me to buy new software - note that as new information is released about those upcoming features, it is entirely possible that my opinion on one or more upcoming feature may change in that regard.

Do you not agree that it happens on a more frequent basis than most of us would have preferred?

Do you not agree that it is worth paying on an ongoing basis for eyes to be kept on these things, and hands to fix them when they crop up?
Everyone's mileage/use case/etc. varies. In my current situation/use case, I do not agree. That doesn't mean I think your viewpoint is wrong, just different. I can see how the sub model is more appropriate for like a developer or a studio putting out a commercial product, but at this time that does not describe me or my use case.

To be frank, the only export at the moment that behaves anything like a static single-purchase product the way GM5 used to be, is the basic Windows VM export. Everything else has to march to the ongoing beat of something else that constantly presses on, or risk becoming completely obsolete. The Windows YYC updates are beholden to Visual Studio, UWP to the Windows Store, Mac YYC and iOS to XCode and iOS/Apple Store, Android to Google Play and Amazon Store, etc. Even the Steam-enabled version of the Windows export is beholden to the Steam API, and the IDE itself is on a deadline to switch over its rendering engine or risk early obsolescence.
Honestly, when they announced the subscription model, if they had also put out a modified permanent license that only got you Windows builds from version 2.3 - 2.3.9, locked the YYC to whatever version of Visual Studio it was working with at 2.3.9, and required a sub for any of the other exports - I probably would've had no complaint.

The thing is, they shouldn't.

I never send anything to anyone that I created with less than 6 months of experience in the respective craft. I never join a jam or any formal competition with less than 1 year of experience in the respective role. I never try to teach anything that I have less than 2 years of experience with in the respective subject matter.

This is a simple matter of knowing one's limits, having foresight, and showing respect for the subject matter at hand.

Of all times, the start of a jam is easily the WORST possible time to promote a game engine to new users. Anyone stupid enough to hop in anew will face the pressure of having to learn the engine from scratch AND making some sort of presentable product, within a time constraint designed to challenge experienced users. This is a recipe for a bad taste in everyone's mouths. The novices would blunder on basic tasks that are only "hard" because they weren't given time to pick up the essentials and let them sink in. The Q&A responders would burn out within a week's time of seeing these blunders and "SOS now" topics from people who should have prepared better.
I did not mean to imply that YYG should go around offering temp licenses for every little game jam (I don't think that they should either) - I've just seen several instances of people citing those temp licenses as a reason why people looking to enter game jams wouldn't ever need subs.

Are you expecting people to tell their friends and family that they can't see the game they're working on because those friends and family don't have at least 6-12 months of industry experience? Not everybody entering game jams are so aggressive about it. A lot of people entering game jams are casual hobbyists/children/etc. that are in it for the fun of it and the opportunity to get a little feedback from people with similar interests and don't concern themselves with crushing the competition or whatever. I've never seen a game jam with rules that read like a job post for a software engineer position.
 
The thing is, they shouldn't.

I never send anything to anyone that I created with less than 6 months of experience in the respective craft. I never join a jam or any formal competition with less than 1 year of experience in the respective role. I never try to teach anything that I have less than 2 years of experience with in the respective subject matter.

This is a simple matter of knowing one's limits, having foresight, and showing respect for the subject matter at hand.

Of all times, the start of a jam is easily the WORST possible time to promote a game engine to new users. Anyone stupid enough to hop in anew will face the pressure of having to learn the engine from scratch AND making some sort of presentable product, within a time constraint designed to challenge experienced users. This is a recipe for a bad taste in everyone's mouths. The novices would blunder on basic tasks that are only "hard" because they weren't given time to pick up the essentials and let them sink in. The Q&A responders would burn out within a week's time of seeing these blunders and "SOS now" topics from people who should have prepared better.
Just wrong; and in my opinion a borderline crazy attitude have.

I've worked with a teammate for the OperaGX jam .. first time making games, first time with GM. No issues onboarding at all. The GM engine lifecycyle is not difficult to understand or explain, and GML is a very simplistic scripting language.. it's trivial compared to what most other developers work with in a day-to-day. The big advantage (but not the only advantage!) of GM is that it *is* very easy to pick up and run with it.. even within a couple of hours... with tons of ease of life features. (built-in movement, pathing, great and easy to use level editors, easy particle system etc, etc).

The idea that one couldn't possibly work with GM without 6 months, 1 year, 2 years, etc, for a is just.. bogus. A jam isn't some holy event. I see people writing these kind of balmy opinion on these forums more and more, and getting upvoted.. and it's absolutely crazy. This kind of elitist attitude is just so weird to see. GM's become a *little* bit more of a professional tool since the GM8 days, and people are acting like you need some kind of special powers to use it. It *still* hasn't strayed *that* far from the tool made by a professor to teach his students about making games! 😊
 

rIKmAN

Member
@Mushroomstick If you own a Desktop Licence you will get 12mths of Indie for free from the conversion offer, after which if you don't feel anything worthwhile has been added in those 12mths to make you want to continue the sub and pay monthly to be on the latest version you could cancel your sub and would revert back to your permanent Desktop licence and can export as you always have done.

If you wanted to use new features then you can either sub, or use the free version to develop with the GX Export and then sub for a month or two when you wanted to export using the latest version - but at some point that permanent licence is going to be for a version of GMS2 that is old and doesn't have the new features that you will (likely) want to use - but it's still permanent and you'll still own it just like people still use GM8 and 1.4 on here.

Not trying to teach you to suck eggs by explaining that, but it seems like you were unhappy with the plans even though they would allow you to do exactly what you wanted to do and with a smaller outlay than if you had to re-up a permanent licence fixed to between 2.3-2.3.9, then 2.4-2.4.9 etc as you described above.
 
Honestly, I just checked the roadmap of the futur releases and ideas planned. It just made me want LESS GMS2 and even further discourage the subscription model.
...if you had to re-up a permanent licence fixed to between 2.3-2.3.9, then 2.4-2.4.9 etc...
I don't know if I understood this portion properly. But usually, in the past at least, permanent licenses were to be repaid for MAJOR version changes, hence, v1 to v2 and not for in between minor or revisions.

At least, right now, we can clearly see that the developpement is strongly oriented for online connectivity and console exports. It seems that the Windows export options and days have revolutionised and transformed into Candy-Crush-Facebook-Play-with-your-Friends-with-in-app-Ads-and-Currency style. When you look at that, it feels good to look back at GM 8.1 and know that we could export simply in Windows, load sprites from local files, read and write in the Windows registry without going around a sandbox. I understand security things, but games are games and if you learn to let people do what they want like Bethesda did with their CreationKit to let people mod games such as Skyrim, we can almost say that they provided an open source game for people to do what they want with it. Take Super Mario Maker which now has 2 entries. We're not in a world where the XP day viruses are still the biggest threat anymore. I can't even browse in Microsoft Edge without a popup when downloading a simple thing such as produkey to view my product keys without getting a warning and needing to click on several misleading texts before being able to execute or authorise the download. I don't even use Anti-Virus or Anti-Malwares anymore. So I am not buying into the security stuff. The word "security" is scary for many and makes the unknowing users and players more scared than those that actually know something about what they are doing on their computer.

So yeah, I was VERY eager to see the new GMS1 back then until I got dissapointed by the new forced create project page. And GMS2 just killed my will into trying to program a game inside because for me it was like learning a whole new software for games. And now, they are forcing subscription models.

I know, it would take over 5 years to pay for a full license as a user stated above to actually own a owned licensed version. We're not looking at this information the same way. I laughed at THIS user:
Yeah, I kinda get that, but just to play devil's advocate... I've never had to subscribe to a video camera.
I laughed because this is litterally what all of this is about. I baught myself an XBOX 360 Controller. Surprise, they got an XBOX ONE Controller a few years later. Does this make my life a misery to still use my old XBOX 360 controller? No, and if I am bound to pay monthly fees for the next controller, then XBOX 360 it will be and stay.

Of course, we're talking about apps and dev teams behind this app, but still. Back in the days, it was only a 1 man program which became a team and company later because it grew so big. Some of us were just happy with what we had and I'm one of those. It is unfair for me to be tricked in buying a cheap license to make this license worthless a few months later and then, when Windows 11 happens, to be told that what I sepnt for is not supported anymore and possible won't be available for installation after. And now, that what I paid for will stay as is until they decide to pull the plug on my version as well. What will happen later, my app will be stuck in 2.3 when all the subscribers will be on 2.4 and then, I'll be told that my version is not supported either?

I'll add a last thought:
Companies grow because of a growth in demand. Have we asked so much in the past to push a single person to have too much work load and force the creation of a teamwork which grew into a company? If that's the case, this subscription model is maybe just the fruit of us, users, always asking for more.
 

Cpaz

Member
Honestly, I just checked the roadmap of the futur releases and ideas planned. It just made me want LESS GMS2 and even further discourage the subscription model.
This confuses me. Are you saying you don't what what's on the roadmap?

Because literally 90% of it is overdue at this point. Especially the intellisense and workflow improvements.

I don't know if I understood this portion properly. But usually, in the past at least, permanent licenses were to be repaid for MAJOR version changes, hence, v1 to v2 and not for in between minor or revisions
This also makes no sense given that Yoyo has given upwards of 5 years worth of support for major versions, leading to whole "unsustainable" argument repeatedly mentioned prior. Especially given how big their team seems to have grown.

Anyway, I feel like I'm beating a dead horse at this point.
The only thing I think I can clarify on further is some phrasing:

This change is geared towards professional users, not hobbyists.

That's the bottom line.
It looks like there's going to be changes to the free license to help with that, but it seems like GMS is going to be treated as primarily a professional tool from here on out. Instead of trying to please all parties. Which is fair, I suppose.
It's also fair that people will fall away from GMS because of that.

But again, feels like I'm still beating that horse.
 

drandula

Member
Thinking from community stand-point, subscription model could be good. My reasoning is that, I think people would inherently use latest version of GMS because there would be no "cost" reason to stay on old version (Assuming on substriction you can access older versions and backroll, so you can still access older projects without problem etc.). So users would be on up-to-date version of GMS, and learn to use new features or changes as they come to be.

Think it this way. If it is single purchase, it is always cost-point to "jump" to next version. There are people who don't want to pay again for new version, which is one reason why there are still people using GMS1.4. And I think there are still time to time some people asking help with GM8 too.

Now, if it would always have been subscription model, then there would not have been again "payment spike". With older versions it would have been just changing subscription over to never version. I am not taking account the learning curve in actual program.

Of course community would be different, as different people would be around using GMS as payment preference or possiblities varies.
 
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