OFFICIAL New: GameMaker Studio 2 Creator Edition

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Lee Chisholm, Nov 15, 2017.

  1. Lee Chisholm

    Lee Chisholm Member

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    https://www.yoyogames.com/blog/453

    [​IMG]

    "Continuing our drive to bring games development to everyone, we launch the brand new Creator Edition for either Windows or Mac. The Creator Edition gives you the power to let your imagination go wild, enabling full access to all of the engine’s expert features, as well as the ability to instantly publish your game to either Windows or Mac desktop."


    If you want to read more about the new, exciting addition to our licensing options, head over to our blog

    -Lee
     
  2. Kuro

    Kuro Member

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    Congrats on the new edition! More accessible pricing is awesome.
     
  3. Justice

    Justice Member

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  4. True Valhalla

    True Valhalla Full-Time Developer GMC Elder

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    This is super interesting. Ex-CEO Sandy Duncan tweeted his support for GM subscriptions over 3 years ago, and finally the option for a base model subscription is available. The requirement to include the GMS2 splash screen would be a deal-breaker for me, if I was the target demographic, but most developers working in this price range probably don't mind.
     
  5. Andy

    Andy Member

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    I think this is a good idea. It's a nice entree level price for newcomers. :)
     
  6. lazertrax

    lazertrax Member

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    Good idea to help make it more accessible to a wider group of people. :)
     
  7. danibus

    danibus Member

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    I think this is a good idea.
    Just for clarify, if you get this license, you can upgrade to Desktop version (99 bucks or less if there are discount available), only difference is avoid YG splash screen??
     
  8. rIKmAN

    rIKmAN Member

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    If you buy this version, you get a 30% discount if you decide to upgrade to the full desktop licence, though it's not clear if you have to upgrade while your subscription is still active or whether you can upgrade at any time afterwards as long as you provide proof you bought the subscription (though I may have missed this info).

    The differences are mandatory splash screen and that you only get 1 export target (Windows OR Mac) in the Creator Edition, whereas the full desktop licence has no splash screen requirement and Windows, Mac and Linux exports included.
     
  9. RangerX

    RangerX Member

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    Accessible doesn't always mean the price.
    I can picture the newbie buying, not noticing its a 12 months liscence, and use the first year to learn his way around. Then when its take to make or finish and actual game... Tadaaaaaaaa! time to renew my boy!

    Its also the beginning of the end.
    This is the first step into making GameMaker a subscription service. This new generation of users will start with that 12 month things, they won't mind renewing if they like the product. Then as it will get more popular, more monthly and subscription based models will appear until it becomes only that. Like many engines and software are becoming now in the industry. Why is it a trend? Because its better for business, it helps business take more out of your wallet --- without you noticing!

    Except we notice Yoyo. Some of us do. Anyhow, ultimately those are business choices and I can do nothing about it. I'll gladly buy the desktop version right away when I won't be able to stand GMS1 anymore someday.
     
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  10. rIKmAN

    rIKmAN Member

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    Whilst I agree with what you're saying, going completely subscription based wouldn't work for the way YYG operate right now IMO.

    They don't keep things upto date enough, don't have the manpower to do so (their words) or give enough information on when features will be added and/or updated to customers so they can make an informed decision.

    When you are paying for a subscription "soon" and "when we get to it" aren't good enough answers, especially when in real world terms that can equate to over a year with no way of really knowing until that year has passed and x/y/z still hasn't been touched.
     
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  11. Edmanbosch

    Edmanbosch Member

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    Well, it seems like you can't renew this license.
    [​IMG]
     
  12. RangerX

    RangerX Member

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    You also make a good point.
     
  13. GMWolf

    GMWolf aka fel666

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    Oooohhh..... this changes everything!
     
  14. HW.

    HW. Member

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    Can't agree more.

    It is good to hear the diversified payment option. However, I prefer buying it with a permanent license and that is always my priority.

    I bought GMS1 and modules, GMS2 Mobile because they come with permanent licenses, IF NOT i might not buy it at all. I avoided Unity because it has not a permanent license without splashscreen. And here i am now with YoYo's product :).

    The permanent license is better according to my opinion because it is also more economical in the long run.

    If they provide two options, subscription or permanent, it is okay for me. As long as they keep offering a permanent license and with an acceptable price. Thanks for the upgrade discount such as 40% for upgrading from GMS1 to GMS2.

    Others may not be the same as me, and prefer subscription, i appreciate it, but i hope it is never going completely subscription "only" based. At least give two options. Others like me only want to buy it if it is with a permanent license.

    By the way, YoYo needs to care about their official extensions.

    e.g. https://marketplace.yoyogames.com/assets/2008/google-play-services#reviews_pane

    Please update to the latest Google Play Services SDKs/APIs , please. Thank you. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2017
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  15. TsukaYuriko

    TsukaYuriko Q&A Spawn Camper Forum Staff Moderator

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    Careful: Non-renewing is not the same as non-renewable.

    Read again:
    That "or" part already makes what you think it means impossible to be interpreted that way, since it literally means you have a choice - between Desktop and another license... and there's only Creator and Desktop in that line-up.


    This paragraph merely means that this is not an automatically renewing license. You have to renew it yourself (if you want to).
     
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  16. GMWolf

    GMWolf aka fel666

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    ah ok. Thanks.
     
  17. Storyteller

    Storyteller Member

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    i still use adobe cs2 I bought 12 years ago for college.
    If GM goes subscription based completely, i will move back to unity or use godot.
    that said, I think its great, like for students, hobbyists and people just wanting to try it out.
     
  18. Chungsie

    Chungsie Member

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    so it's a paid demo? maybe a misnomer. a paid rental with no option for renawal, and you have to spend more to continue using their products. I don't like these directions the company is going. First it was a new engine with no foreseeable free use option like the prior one offered, plus a complete discontinue of gm1 so you can never get a free license of it without paying for something else.

    down with the commies LOL
     
  19. GMWolf

    GMWolf aka fel666

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    Non renewing and non renawable are different things.
    It's a subscription service.

    But you can still purchase a lifetime license if you like.
    Having the option is great: maybe you are not too sure avouht investing so much in GM, then get a 1 year license to try it out.
    If you are dead set on using it, the get the lifetime license. If you already had the year licence, you even get a discount on the lifetime license!
    It should help more people get into GM. I think its a great thing.
     
  20. Chungsie

    Chungsie Member

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    that's not what people tell me about photoshop when I say I use gimp2
     
  21. Samuel Venable

    Samuel Venable Time Killer

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    The last thing we need is more games like this one having the GameMaker splash screen, but okay...

     
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  22. Mike

    Mike nobody important GMC Elder

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    First, this is a new product for those who want to pay over time - there are some who prefer this model, search the forums you'll find plenty wanting this. It also lets users get a better sense of the product, and they get a discount of they upgrade during the license term. Coming to the end of the year and want to keep using? Well upgrade for 30% off... that's only going to be $30 more than than you're about to drop for another year. I'd call that pretty generous.

    Next, we're a company and have to make money to survive, and so everyone here can continue to get GM improvements. This was tried with GMS1.x and it didn't work from a business point of view. We'd all have loved it if a free version would have caused an uptick in actual upgrades and sales, but it didn't. So that model had to be retired.

    As to 1.x. You will still be able to use your product after the end date, there just won't be any more updates. Windows will likely work for quite a while - years probably, after this date. You'll still be able to activate and run it. The issue comes with iOS, Android and consoles. These versions require constant updates and these will stop, meaning at some point they will probably stop being accepted on the store - or knowing apple, failing to build at all. We gave a LOT of notice on this.

    As to free versions of 1.x.... well, frankly, why should we? This is a real question. Knowing that giving out free versions do not increase sales, what possible benefits would we get from giving out free licenses to an old product? None that I can see to be honest - but the clincher is that again, all it does is take sales away from our current product. I said before, we'd have LOVED if giving out fully featured free versions caused an uptick in actual sales or upgrades, but it doesn't so as a business - that doesn't give you very much wiggle room.

    The free version of GMS2 is pretty powerful for those wishing to tinker. I've made full games with it. Sure, you can't release them - but then that's what you're paying for really. The creators version offers a cheaper way for users to get into this as well - again, a massive plus in my book.

    Lastly, on top of all this.... there is now the 60 day free Amazon trial. Full Android building and exporting to Fire devices - which are incredibly cheap, and a brilliant way of getting into mobile development.

    In all this, I see nothing but positives.
     
  23. Chungsie

    Chungsie Member

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    @Mike I see. I am just not positive about corporations in general, it's a unfair disadvantage to do business with me as I am unpleasent about the exchange of goods (really, it was a problem as an adult to loathe money but need things it obtains). I was thinking about the issue of money because, it's almost the first and I am broke. I just released a book I spent a good month on, and I charged 0$. ideally there is no commons involved with my product but my time. I can understand the need to compete, that's why I even spent 5 days on the cover I made for it. But the need for me to exist does not exceed the need for what I want to say or express. Though, just because I believe this doesn't make it true.
    Please don't take my business advice, I have never been successful in any business venture I sought/seek. You guys are obviously better at business. That doesn't mean I will agree :p
     
  24. TrunX

    TrunX Member

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    Well I know at least one case in which the decision to remove a free (useable) alternative ended in the cancellation of the GameMaker course at our university. So every year about one hundred of new students learn the ropes of other game engines and become potential customers of these products. And thats only one university. How many others are effected? I think there is no chance at all that they will try out GM after they have learned to use other game engines. Especially as the few people that are already familiar with GM are kinda getting mocked for using GameMaker for their games. Sadly GM has a very bad reputation among game programmers.

    But you have the numbers, maybe I'm overestimating the effect of having to learn an engine at school/university on the future usage of this engine.
     
  25. GMWolf

    GMWolf aka fel666

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    YYG do offer educational licenses. Maybe your university should get i n touch with YYG.
     
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  26. Mike

    Mike nobody important GMC Elder

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    There are a few schools and colleges that did use the free version, but as before these usually didn't translate into sales. After all, if you get use it for free and it gives you everything you need, then why bother paying. I said before - as much as I'd love a free version for people to use, it just doesn't pay the bills, and keeping GameMaker alive and well has to be the primary goal. Just like teachers are paid to teach, developers here need to be paid to develop.

    As to GM users being "mocked", I disagree. Most of these people tend to be wanna-be coders who say you need "a real language". GM is a real language, and I know quite a few highly experienced developers who have been around for decades that love it. I could say the same about LUA, but it depends what you need for your game. You use the tool that's best for your game.

    I could go back to the C++ is better then C# argument, or C is better then C++ argument, or even the ASM is better the C one..... we get them every few years when a new language comes out that is a bit slower, but much faster to develop in. GML is similar. It's dedicated to doing games, and GameMaker is much faster for making them. but there's always some die hard that knows better.

    Ignore them - or better yet, prove them wrong.
     
  27. TrunX

    TrunX Member

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    Well, my university has a bunch of educational licenses but they are only for the desktop PCs in the workspace area which the students can use in their free time. In the lecture halls the students are using their own laptops. So it was not possible anymore to continue the GameMaker courses as the university can't force its students to buy specific software especially as the beginner courses are also mandatory for the non-programmers.

    It's also a bit ironic that my university is paying only for (the not anymore taught) GameMaker licences as the other two engine manufacturer provide pro versions including support for educational purposes free of charge. One of the two engines wasn't even available for private persons when I started studying but was given away for free to students of my university at the cost that it gets used in some courses. So it seems they had another sustainable strategy.

    Nonetheless I was already a GameMaker user before studying game design. It's just a shame that future generations of students will not get in touch with GM anymore resulting in a vicious cycle.
     
  28. Mike

    Mike nobody important GMC Elder

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    I find this odd, as they have no issues requiring book purchases for a course - but not software. It's not unreasonable to assume if your about to do a coding course, you might need some coding software. The creators edition does make it much cheaper, especially if they only need the software for a limited time.

    First, I presume both these engines make a lot more than we do. Simply put, we can't give it away, we're not a charity and as I've said countless times before we have developers wages to pay. While we support Educational licenses as best we can, we have to charge for it. Simple as that.

    Presumably the course costs something to take, the lecturers are paid. Why is it that they're allowed to charge and we're not?

    I think it's a shame that developers seem to think our program is not worth paying for, yet presumably again.... they'd be happy to make money from anything they made with it.
     
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  29. FrostyCat

    FrostyCat Member

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    And so far a lot of them have been free, or at least free to use.

    It's not too long ago that I've been in an educational situation. Let me tell you what the environment is like. The computer science lab machines all run Ubuntu. We used WingIDE, NetBeans, atom, vim and nano. MATLAB is about the only paid programming-related software in that cluster.

    Add to that the "only need the software for a limited time" factor YoYo insists on. Software marketed as training wheels have been in a tailspin for a long time, mostly because of declining institutional support. When students apply for a course at an institution, they intend to learn what the industry uses and cut straight to the punch. The institutions are starting to listen. So if YoYo continues to lose market share and overcater to novices, the same tailspin is in YoYo's fate.

    Perhaps you should look into why those other engines make a lot more sales than YoYo does?

    If I'm not mistaken about what the unnamed engines are, one of them started (and still has) a program where they gave free licenses for students to use at home, bundled to premium support at the institutional level. It is now paying off big time and it shows through their market share.

    On the contrary, with 8.1, Mac and recently GMS 1.4, YoYo has taken the opposite direction of making it infeasible for students to take home their work. Not just restricting the licenses, but preventing purchases and all legitimate home use altogether. This has caused otherwise satisfied institutions to turn away in rage, and one of the institutions is an hour's drive where I live. Time and time again YoYo is showing some regard to educational institutions installing GM on their machines (one half of the use case), but no regard to students who then need to do the assigned coursework at home (the other half).

    This isn't just a matter of payment, it's YoYo not entirely encapsulating the use case of educational users. And that is very much a problem to tackle with the way support is handled and priced.

    We are not suggesting that GMS 2 isn't worth paying for. Except for perhaps the anti-currency libertarian, every responder on this topic has a license email proving otherwise. We are suggesting that YoYo's ongoing strategy and attitude towards educational use is adversely affecting future sales.

    You do giveaways already. You give away copies of the free license on the Jam. Does this imply that you don't think GMS 2 is worth paying for? If the Jam giveaways are not generating new sales, are you going to blame the Jam for it?
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2017
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  30. GMWolf

    GMWolf aka fel666

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    This is why I can't take universities that only teach how to use those sorts of tools seriously. The simple truth is that the industry doesn't tend to use these engines that much outside of prototyping (Talking about AAA studios here).
     
  31. Mike

    Mike nobody important GMC Elder

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    I started writing a big long post, but actually it's irrelevant. No one here has seen the numbers involved, nor know what happens when you give away free licenses. Search the forums, I've already described this in detail. It's something that sounds like it should work - but simply doesn't.
    As to having a paid engine, that's what the company and management have decided is best for the product, and while you might not like it, no one really knows the numbers and reasons more then them.

    Also, giving away licenses for JAMs. We're not giving them away, these are limited "timed licenses" and will usually only last around the time of the game jam. It's promotional.

    Lastly.... in the past month we've released a cheap mobile version, a cheap entry version and opened up a 60 day free trial of mobile which gives unlimited resources - and allows desktop testing. We've done a lot to lower the bar to entry.
     
  32. kupo15

    kupo15 Member

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    That's an interesting point. I'm not sure if its changed in the last 5 years but to play devils advocate other industries have the same problem but I think they are doing well. For example when I was taking my audio design class the only access I had to my work via the studio. I didn't have logic at home to be able to work on it. Even if logic was free for me to get at home or I was able to do it I still wouldn't not have been able to work at home because I worked on music composition projects. My school had some decently good VSTs which are expensive and the machines they had were powerful enough to run them.

    There was no way I would be getting those VSTs for free for educational use and even if I did I wouldn't have had powerful enough machine either. I wonder if the audio space still is in the same boat with not being able to work from home. Even if you could I doubt many students would be having the industry level mixing tools at home to learn fully therefore still needing to be in the studio.

    Point is, I'm sure other industries have the same issues you're talking about. Maybe the game's space is different since its easier to replicate the studio experience at home compared to what I mentioned.
     
  33. FrostyCat

    FrostyCat Member

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    Bringing up my university environment again, I also know about the VSTs and piano keyboards, they were right next to the computer science labs. Except only music and audio engineering students were using them. The same can't be said for the workstations that computer science students use to complete their homework. They are often booked for other activities and set up to dual boot to Windows in those situations. Early on we might get away with doing it on-site, but not if we get anything more demanding or if peak season rolls around. We often had to bring home our work, or at least to a private laptop away from others.

    My high school also had computer labs that were split between computer science classes and rentals by other classes for research purposes. In peak project seasons, they too are booked to the hilt. The ability to issue "homework licenses" is even more pressing in this use case.

    My university experience dates back 2 years. My high school experience dates back 7, though I have made a site visit some time afterwards. The use case I described has not changed in the timeframe you described.
     
  34. GMWolf

    GMWolf aka fel666

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    @FrostyCat I'm pretty sure that the marketing department at YYG, and at playtech are more than capable at doing their jobs. Or at least, they are probably more knowledgeable in marketing this stuff than yourself.
     
  35. TrunX

    TrunX Member

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    We do not have to buy books or other software. At least here in Germany education is not that costly fur students. I pay a semester fee of about 250€ every 6 months... this fee includes free traveling with buses and trains, free usage of the library and free sport courses.

    I really hope that's not the case. If you are making money with some software its just natural to pay the creators of such software be it a share of your income or a fixed price. But students often have no spare money left at the end of a month to buy some software they could use for a course especially if there are free alternatives they can choose from.

    But as I said I'm not angry or something like that at you from YoYo, I'm sure you know better whats best for you and GameMaker. It's just a pity to see my favorite game engine (for 2D games) falling behind other engines regarding it's dissemination and acceptance in the game industry and the educational area.
     
  36. Kobold

    Kobold Member

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    ...the last time I checked the U**** Community (quite recently) , I have come across multiple topics started by developers on how far GM came...

    and I think it's folks like you and me that can help pushing it or sinking it by either producing something we would actually go and buy ourselves , or go and hit the release button before it's considered to be in Alpha Stage.

    So far I have experienced every IDE/Engine has its fair share of "misguided" builds (only inserting pretty lights and a few primitives, hit build), haha. ...so this can't be the reason for you writing something like that.
     
  37. corwin22

    corwin22 Member

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    Alright but can you create html5 games using this? or just windows games
     
  38. Tsa05

    Tsa05 Member

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    I just want to chime in to say that our university has purchased a decent chunk of GMS2 licenses via the educational pricing, and it's working for us.

    There's points to be made on both sides, of course. The university where I work has a very prominent undergraduate gaming program, and we use Unity and Unreal the most when we use an engine, but we don't actually use engines a lot... Students doing projects on VR experience, or UX stuff like "how does a character's walking 'bounce' affect their immersion in a game," or mucking around with some kind of shader for a novel use will pop into an engine. In other words, students use engines when the "real" course work involves a specific angle to study, and needs a basic gaming experience tossed together in 1-2 weeks as a platform to do the study, but one dev tool is not the focus of the curriculum. (Heck, when I started working there, Unity didn't even exist)

    So, having GameMaker installed in one large computer lab, and having students use that lab has been fine. There's 2 classes that use it to focus on mechanics and game logic, where fancy APIs cloud the issue, and the lab is sufficient for the need. Actually, since students aggregate there when assignments are coming up due, they get a lot of collaborative help that way; added benefit.

    I'd *love* to see a free version, of course, so that our students would extend their GameMaker work beyond class, and I could argue that there's a quarter-generation of young people who are entering the marketplace without a serious dependence on GameMaker due to the lack of a free license, which leads to lower adoption when they get real gaming jobs. But realistically, numbers don't suggest that the free GMS1 led to industry dominance, so.......what would have changed?

    GameMaker really just suffers from an image problem. I mean, everyong likes free, right? But people are willing to shell out money if they see themselves getting something that does "enough for what they need" at a lower price than the "Big Expensive Pro Software." Graphics people buy little sprite-making programs on Humble Bundles, for example, and are darned happy that they didn't pay full price to the Adobe Overlords. Then, YYG sells a game making tool, while Unity and Unreal are giving theirs away for free--it puts YYG on the wrong side of popular perception.

    I feel like YYG is trying to be something like "a decent set of those little affordable dev tools like you see in Humble Bundles all in one integrated package" and also "a complete environment for rapid game design ideation" rather than being just another IDE that compiles flipped assets and sweet shader tech into games. The combination there is more and different than the free tools but hasn't come into its own market category yet. And we need a lot more Undertale success stories to really make clear the value of the royalty-free license. Shrug Keep on keeping on.
     
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