My experience with the gamemaker community so far

[Bulwarkene]

This post, is mostly related to GameMaker, but it also applies to other engines I've tried in the past such as Unity and OpenGL.

I keep attempting to make games, and it never works out. If I try to do a game project on my own, it usually fails since I am mostly skilled in programming, so I lack the ability to get decent music and artwork. Recently, I have been trying to expand my skills into art, but I have a lot of work to do before I can make the artwork for a game people would actually want to play.

Since making a game alone wouldn't work, the only logical solution should be to team up with others. But this never works either. Every team I've joined, people leave after a few days until there is almost noone left. Most of the time, projects I join end up failing due to the fact that the leader of the said project is inexperienced. Since I am decent at programming, all the novice game designer wannabes, some of them younger than 13, spam me with requests to help them on their project, and they make it really hard for me to figure out that their project isn't worth the effort until I have wasted a bit of time talking to them. Then, after I tell them I don't want to help them, they usually get upset and say that I am being rude/unfair, and they try to convince me to stay with nonstop messages, which causes me to promptly block all communication with them.

Attempting to form my own team never works either. I face the same problems, with inexperienced people trying to trick me that they are better than they actually are at what they do. Even people that I get helping me who are half decent, will randomly disappear and cease all contact after a few days. The big killer of these projects are other games. People get bored of helping and go play Overwatch or something else.

This has been my experience with Gamemaker thus far. How exactly does one get out of this rut? I just want to produce a half decent game for once.

 

[John Andrews]

This post, is mostly related to GameMaker, but it also applies to other engines I've tried in the past such as Unity and OpenGL.

I keep attempting to make games, and it never works out. If I try to do a game project on my own, it usually fails since I am mostly skilled in programming, so I lack the ability to get decent music and artwork. Recently, I have been trying to expand my skills into art, but I have a lot of work to do before I can make the artwork for a game people would actually want to play.

Since making a game alone wouldn't work, the only logical solution should be to team up with others. But this never works either. Every team I've joined, people leave after a few days until there is almost noone left. Most of the time, projects I join end up failing due to the fact that the leader of the said project is inexperienced. Since I am decent at programming, all the novice game designer wannabes, some of them younger than 13, spam me with requests to help them on their project, and they make it really hard for me to figure out that their project isn't worth the effort until I have wasted a bit of time talking to them. Then, after I tell them I don't want to help them, they usually get upset and say that I am being rude/unfair, and they try to convince me to stay with nonstop messages, which causes me to promptly block all communication with them.

Attempting to form my own team never works either. I face the same problems, with inexperienced people trying to trick me that they are better than they actually are at what they do. Even people that I get helping me who are half decent, will randomly disappear and cease all contact after a few days. The big killer of these projects are other games. People get bored of helping and go play Overwatch or something else.

This has been my experience with Gamemaker thus far. How exactly does one get out of this rut? I just want to produce a half decent game for once.

The only way to really do a game is to make a real life team, one you can watch over, one you can work with directly, not an internet team, or, you could go solo (as many do) and make your own game, regardless of how bad it would be because of the graphics, and if you aren't good ad graphics, then find a solution! What did I do? Since my art is literal trash, I just decided to go simple, pitch black background, line-line sprites, and to make it impact people, I used my programming skills to do some good looking effects (the game is even in my signature), and about the music, you could just hire someone, or search for free music in the internet, until you find one that fits, I can't really give any opinion about my experience about working in teams, because I've never thought of such a thing, if you really want to make something, made by YOU, then you, and only YOU can do it! So get going and make your own game! Make it as you like it, and enjoy making it! Never force yourself to make a game if you won't get anything in return, have fun with every game you make! And good luck doing that

As always, hope this was helpful!

 

[Juju]

The only way to really do a game is to make a real life team

This isn't true at all - 95% of games I've made have been with remote teams. Not all of those games have been good of course, but some of them have been successful (either commercially or artistically).

The trick is to find a reason for the team to stay together that's not just the game itself! If you're all good friends and hang out in the same communities, you're more likely to find success. Having that extrinsic motivation - the social cost of ditching a project - is a powerful way to keep the team together. To that end, it's rare that I'll work with total randomers; I'll always try to find a new team member whose work I am familiar with. If you know the people before you start, you're in a better position to survive the gamedev process.

If you're unhappy with the quality of leadership, go and be a leader. Start off with some typical short two day game jams, then try a couple week-long jams, then try something bigger and closer to an actual sellable game. Leadership is a skill like any other and takes practice. A good tip here is to ask people prior to commit a fixed amount of time to the project - that gets them to think hard about what they're actually going to need to devote to the project to get it done.

And if all else fails, screw it, make a game with programmer art. There are tons and tons of things you can do with rudimentary art skills. Death Ray Manta and Geometry Wars are classic examples but there's no reason you have to limit yourself to shooters. You do admittedly limit yourself aesthetically, but so be it: You're a one-man team so you need to compromise (or you need to learn to do the art/audio yourself ).

Ultimately, not every game is going to get made and the same is true in professional development. You keep trying until one survives.

If you're looking for a team, the /r/GameMaker Discord server hosts a skills spreadsheet that you may find useful.

 

[RichHopefulComposer]

How exactly does one get out of this rut?

Practice for another ten years.

 

[JackTurbo]

To be blunt, if you're not paying an artist you should expect them to be flaky... An unpaid job is never going to be a priority to someone else. You may be invested in your vision, but they wont be.

Either pay an artist, or become an artist... or accept that they may be slower and need more chasing than you'd like.

 

[GMWolf]

And this is why I tend to dev solo... at least for the programming part.

 

[Electros]

Perhaps you could post what you think is your most promising project in the collaboration forum, even with programmer art - you may find an artist who would want to team up with you and take it to release. Have a look through their portfolio, and make a call on whether you think it will work.

It sounds like you want to get something completed and out there, and you may find an artist who wants the same shared goal - be it for commercial or portfolio / released reasons.

Others may have goals to get some experience working on their skills as part of a project, or simply being part of a team, which is fine, but is unlikely (though not impossible) to align with your goal.

 

[woodsmoke]

Maybe setting an age limit for people you want to work with can help a bit.

Quite often I like programmer art that's not perfect. You still see if someone put alot of time and love into it, even if it's not even near perfect. Gameplay is the most important part of the game, and art can suck. It must only be clearly identifyable what is going on to be a good experience for me. Back in the old days we had to use our imagination, just like when reading a book.

I enjoy being a solo dev because I can always decide myself if I want to chill or work hard (or anything in between).

 

[Yal]

There's a lot of cool free audio resources around, so that's a pretty viable option - check out Kevin McLeod's site incompetech for the most well-known composer, or OpenGameArt's music section (check out Alexandr Zhelanov's stuff on there, for instance!). Just make sure you get something with a license that allows commercial use, and take notes on how to credit the creator.

Graphics assets are generally harder to find, since a lot more people dabble with them and release programmer art, OpenGameArt can be a bit flooded. I'd personally recommend making your own art, because that keeps the graphical style of the game consistent, and that's more important for the player's impression than whether individual assets look good. Even critically acclaimed games like Undertale have some pretty bad art, but makes up for it in other ways.


As for keeping a project going with a team:

• Team up with people you trust and keep the number of randos you've never met before to a minimum. Ideally you should work with your friends or at least people you see around a bit... it's easier to cooperate if you know more about each other and care about each other.
• Learn some project planning, just being aware of things like time budgeting and continuous evaluation of whether you're progressing according to plan or not helps tremendously. A lot of projects fail because the project leader don't know how to lead a project.
• Make sure everyone on the team actually has something to do all the time, so they won't forget about the project while they're in radioshadow. Doesn't have to be anything too big as long as they're not left idling.
• Make sure everyone gets to come with creative input on the project instead of you bossing everyone around. Ideally this should be as informal as possible.
• Have people outside the project group test play the game, everyone in the project group will know too much about it to spot UX, difficulty or obscurity-of-information errors.

 

[Ankokushin]

A good tip here is to ask people prior to commit a fixed amount of time to the project - that gets them to think hard about what they're actually going to need to devote to the project to get it done.

This is a very good point. I tried working in a project with teams online in two occasions and the teams actually managed to work for a good two months before falling apart: if our project had been more modest, simple, we would have been able to finish it. The problem is that beggining teams often have ambitious ideas for huge games... and, well, you will hardly find someone who will willingly dedicate two years of their lives working in a project for free.
It is important to embark the team in a project that you can finish quickly.

Also, about your leadership: if you have a game halfdone (say: you created the programming and designed the levels), you can actually ask people specific things for them to do, which is much simpler than asking them to be your companions in production. You find a sound buddy and asks him this this and this. Find an art buddy and asks this and this and that.
Even if they abandon the task halfway, you will have some of their assets and can ask someone else to finish what they started.

 

[crisiworks]

Heh. I tried making with my brother a few times. It turns out we just make a really bad pair.

I do think paying a team is crucial as a kind of bottom line binding thing. So hiring someone etc may be it. Especially if yoi believe your game can succeed commercially.

Smaller games too are likely to succeed. Massive rpgs are hard.

Gopd luck with it!

 

[Ninety]

If you're serious about making games you need to look elsewhere besides the GMC. The vast majority of users here aren't professionals and those that are have their own projects. More to the point, a professional will usually require pay since, y'know, it's their profession. Finding a team of committed, hardworking and skilled collaborators is very difficult not least because you're essentially asking someone to work for free for the foreseeable future. Unfortunately all this means flaky team members is the norm on forums like this.

 

[Hossein]

yes my friend you are right, but you must know you are not a ultimate person, in project's until you feel you are away from othe'r, you cant join them, you just need Patience, Trust, patience in meaning of patience, not waste your life. and everything will not solve with logic, because you need to know the true way to treat a sentimental person is not 100% truth, it is a fact you must accept it. in last sentence you were 100% right because recently I broke my Cooperation with someone because of a BFME2 tournament. that person untrusted because he think it is dangerous to work with a tricky person. good luck. almost 90% person's in community are beginner's and this is why they need a community, at least you need find another way. that trust able for you

 

[teamrocketboyz]

i say keep your games small. work on your art and build a portfolio. then either go solo and develop on your own or use your portfolio to attract other "skilled" developers.

 

[Dagolard]

This post, is mostly related to GameMaker, but it also applies to other engines I've tried in the past such as Unity and OpenGL.

I keep attempting to make games, and it never works out. If I try to do a game project on my own, it usually fails since I am mostly skilled in programming, so I lack the ability to get decent music and artwork. Recently, I have been trying to expand my skills into art, but I have a lot of work to do before I can make the artwork for a game people would actually want to play.

Since making a game alone wouldn't work, the only logical solution should be to team up with others. But this never works either. Every team I've joined, people leave after a few days until there is almost noone left. Most of the time, projects I join end up failing due to the fact that the leader of the said project is inexperienced. Since I am decent at programming, all the novice game designer wannabes, some of them younger than 13, spam me with requests to help them on their project, and they make it really hard for me to figure out that their project isn't worth the effort until I have wasted a bit of time talking to them. Then, after I tell them I don't want to help them, they usually get upset and say that I am being rude/unfair, and they try to convince me to stay with nonstop messages, which causes me to promptly block all communication with them.

Attempting to form my own team never works either. I face the same problems, with inexperienced people trying to trick me that they are better than they actually are at what they do. Even people that I get helping me who are half decent, will randomly disappear and cease all contact after a few days. The big killer of these projects are other games. People get bored of helping and go play Overwatch or something else.

This has been my experience with Gamemaker thus far. How exactly does one get out of this rut? I just want to produce a half decent game for once.

There are easy ways. If people are artists they usualy have Portfolios, Check those.
Ask them about the projects they shipped and so on.

I can totaly understand your unmood most people have Not the disciplin to finish projects.

Oh and you can try to ask people on Twitter. I met there good and experienced people...

 

[Reign]

If you're still looking for a project and are serious about it, msg me. Will add you on skype or discord and we can discuss potentially working together. I'm a competent programmer, pixel artist, and game designer that's looking for someone to team up with and am fully committed.

This is a map editor and tileset I'm working on so you can see an example of my work->

 

[Raining_Indoors]

To be blunt, if you're not paying an artist you should expect them to be flaky... An unpaid job is never going to be a priority to someone else. You may be invested in your vision, but they wont be.

Either pay an artist, or become an artist... or accept that they may be slower and need more chasing than you'd like.

This. Everyone takes things more seriously when money is involved, even if you're the one paying.

 

[MishMash]

There are so many issues at play here, but as many solutions have been posted, i'm going to tackle this in a slightly different way. First of all, how many projects have you worked on yourself that have gotten decently far in, or reached a point of technical complexity? By this I mean, lets say you were developing an RPG, can you honestly say you have got it to a point where you need to start caring about art and music over the actual gameplay itself?

The reason i'm being blunt is because I am a true believer that even the simplest of art can suffice when it comes to implementing gameplay mechanics. A lot of complex architectures that make up games are also completely independent from the visual aspect of the game. I see so many programmers moaning about not having assets, or this and that whilst they are working on their game. I agree they are important, but equally, you can create a semi-decent looking game with a little bit of effort without being a great artist.

If you are working on a project that has clear gameplay potential, others will be more encouraged to work with you. If it's just a project you are making for learning purposes, I wouldn't bother spending too much effort even worrying about art or music, that stuff is only really relevant when working on a game for commercial/financial reasons. The other reason I mention this is that if you have a decent portfolio of experience, other users will be more encouraged to work with you. They will also have confidence that you can deliver on the gameplay end. Perhaps this is something that you aren't fulfilling right now? Whether it be because you have weeks without updates, or days where you seem to lack direction and motivation.

The solution to your problem mostly boils down to discipline. I personally feel that you first need to evaluate your own development process, before worrying about what the people around you, or those who you are working with might be doing. When you are ready to create a serious project, then you should understand the need for financial investment into assets. It is rare to find a team of people who would be willing to donate a large proportion of their time on a whim. Especially because so many projects end up being long term, or poorly planned out. Equally, many artists and composers have been burned by similar experiences in the past. Perhaps from programmers like yourself who do not deliver.

This may sound quite harsh, but the truth is, I see this happening all the time, and the easiest way to solve it is to make sure people are being truely honest about their development scenario.

So quick list of things you should consider:

• 1) You don't need assets to make a game. You can work on mechanics/systems without these
• 2) It doesn't take a ridiculous amount of time to be able to learn how to create better programmer art. I don't pretend to be an artist, but after a few weeks of practise, mixed in with slowly creating things for projects over the years, i've gotten to a point where I can atleast be competent.
• 3) How you feel about other people in your team may equally be how they feel about you. Consider your own commitment and motivation in a project, and how often you are delivering work as this may be having an impact on their motivation.
• 4) Discipline is essential for a game developer. Some days you wont be motivated, so you come up with excuses like "I dont have the right assets". Really, 95% of the time this is someone dodging working on the hard part of their project in favour of doing polishing early on. This isn't bad if you have a strong workflow and track record with experience working on a longer term project, but is often the sign that you are going to struggle in a project.
• 5) When you are at a point that you feel serious about a project, requiring some form of financing for it is essential.
• 6) Be your own team manager, or try to "take over" a project that is being poorly managed. My opinion is that for small team projects, there shouldn't really be a manager as such, everyone should be equally in a position to say what things should/shouldn't be in the game. Everything should be formulated with discussions. What should happen however is that everyone should be responsible for their particular share of a project. None of this "Idea's man" nonsense.
• 7) As others have said, don't just join up with randomers and start working, get to know them first. If you have an ambitious project planned, perhaps try working on something smaller so that you can get a feel for each others work flow.

The final thing I will say is that the majority of users in this community never actually finish games. Finishing a game is something that is really really really hard to do, because it involves a strict level of discipline, organisation and passion, all in equal measure. Sometimes accepting the fact that some of your projects aren't destined to be finished games, but will just fall into the realm of tech demo's is perfectly valid. I spent 10 years building up experience by working on lots of small projects. Some got quite far, though none of them got to a point where they were finished, because for me, I enjoyed the early stages of development. I loved getting a nice engine working, trying out new mechanics. Adding content to a game never appealed much to me, and it still doesn't all that much.
Though, now, with my current project, all that experience has really helped me out because I can now do quite a few things that I wouldn't have been able to do without all the cancelled projects I had. It's just a matter of understanding where your enjoyment comes from, and then once you are ready, deciding whether its a good idea to tackle a full game or not. The sad truth is that for some people, developing a complete game is never going to be an option, even if you gave them the best team in the world. This is simply because when it comes down to it, there might be fundamental stages in the project that they just really hate.

 

[sitebender]

Welcome to the world of working with people over the Internet.

Here's a story for you. I used to be quite active in the RPG Maker community up until 6 years ago. I would always make games for fun. Eventually people would want to team up. I'd do the work... and they would uh?... not sure what they'd do. Well 6 years ago was the Kickstarter boom. One of the games went to Kickstarter. We got excited. He got the money and disappeared. I've discovered there's quite a trail of unpaid people working for the game.

Then the next project after that, the same thing happened. Only I never knew it went to Kickstarter until a few days after. When I called him out on it he said yeah he put it on there. "WE deserve to get paid," he told me. Then he too disappeared once he got the money. The game had a different name too so I feel he was trying to hide it.

It happened again with a much older game. So I tried to get in contact with the other guy, but he never got back to me as its an old project. I'm not even sure it was him that made the Kickstarter or if someone found the demo and posted it. It too had a different name.

After that I just dropped out of the RPG Maker community and didn't make games for a good 3 or so years.

Even paying people to do art and or music I can't keep them interested int he long term. They always taper off even when I pay them up front. I try to do projects that the artists want to do to keep them interested. I've bluntly been told by someone "I'm bored of this project, wrap it up."

What's worse is when an artist (or programmer) doesn't have a portfolio to prove they can actually do what they say they can. I remember working with one artist who I was paying... he said let me do the environments first then he will do the characters. Sure. That's fine. Well once the environments were done he bluntly told me he wasn't good at doing characters and I should find someone else. Well then...

Now I've just learned to get better at art to be more independent even if it just an extra burden... or just buy art packs.

Doing art for people over the past year I've been offered pay... oh but only if their Kickstarters are successful and guess what... none have been successful and those people disappear. Usually when I hear "Kickstarter" or "indiegogo" I bail. I really am just in it to make games and nothing one will hold me back.

 

[ajan-ko]

You pay peanuts, you get monkeys.

If you don't have money, I think you should go solo until you find someone who wants to hire you.

Hiring somebody without money is just backward logic.

Spoiler

 

[ScrabbitRabbit]

Yeah I can't see teams of randos working together for free ever working out. The only way you'll get a team for free is if you happen to make friends with people who have a varied skillset and want to work on the same things. It's kinda like starting a band that way. Otherwise, you gotta hire people.

There are a few royalty free assets out there that you can buy. I've enjoyed using Kenney's assets on itch.io. They're very modern mobile game-y but they're good if you wanna make that sort of game. I made a game with Clickteam Fusion last month where you played as a tank trying to keep a ball in the air by shooting it for points and I was pretty happy with how it looked. It's possible to mix and match and keep a cohesive style if you're careful. The only art assets I made myself were the ball and the bullets though all the music and sound effects were completely original.

I think if you're not an artist and you can't hire one then your game just isn't gonna be pretty. There are definitely ways to make it look functional, though.

 

[Melazee]

As an artist, I would recommend looking in places such as the Polycount forums (primarily for 3d, but there are also 2d artists), or maybe even deviantART (although deviantART can be hit and miss).

On Facebook, there are groups you could post in such as Ten Thousand Hours and Level Up, plus loads more I forget the name of now.

It will definitely be harder to get people to stick to the project when it is unpaid though. But you know what? On the plus side, I envy you, I wish I could program well instead of art! At least you can make a game, I can't make a playable game with just art