Feedback Little things

[csanyk]

Here's a few miscellaneous small details that I've noticed so far...

sprite editor: UI controls tab order is... weird. (If I'm currently focused on the Collision Mask Left textbox, and I hit tab, it goes down to Top, then up to the Collision Box expander, then to the add new frame control...)

sprite editor: collision mask size doesn't match sprite size. (Create new sprite, resize to 16x16, collision mask still goes from 0,0 to 64,64

UI general: I'm dismayed that pretty much everything (in terms of the UI) has to be re-learned. Most of the basic concepts are still the same, but I have to re-learn the icon and location of almost everything. It might be prettier, but it's slowing me down to have to re-learn this stuff.

UI general: Double clicking into a textbox should select all, but it doesn't.

code editor: Keyboard navigation in the text editor is missing many options. only left, right arrows seem to work. home, end, page down, page up, all do not work. ctrl+left or right arrow doesn't jump to the next word. Shift + ctrl + arrow does not highlight to the next word. Etc. UPDATE: Ctrl+Shift+arrows do work to select text a whole word at a time, but I can't go past the end of the current line with left/right arrows, although I can then use the up/down arrow keys. I can also use the left/right arrow key if I momentarily release ctrl. It feels broken that I can't use left-right arrow keys with shift to select text past the beginning or end of line. Home and End keys do not work, and should.

code editor: syntax highlighting colors are too colorful for my taste. I would prefer somewhat desaturated version of the default color scheme.

Compile speed is rather slow compared to GMS1.4, even for a very tiny project consisting of two objects and one room. I'm hoping this will be better optimized once out of beta?

Window animations when opening/closing object editors, etc. take time. Ideally I'd like them to take 0ms, or at least much less time than they do.

Workspaces: it takes a lot of scrolling around to navigate workspaces. I don't like having to scroll so much -- particularly horizontal scrolling. I think this will take getting used to, and a good tutorial video showing the basic and advanced features of Workspaces and suggestions for best practices for organizing your workspaces for efficiency would be awesome.

Also, if I'm editing GML, my preference is for that code editor window to be maximized, but it isn't if the default chain view is used, and most of the time the bottom of the window is clipped beneath the compile messages pane, meaning that I can't see the syntax tips when trying to type a GML function.

 

[hdarren]

Compile speed is rather slow compared to GMS1.4, even for a very tiny project consisting of two objects and one room. I'm hoping this will be better optimized once out of beta?

Wow that is a biggie. GM compiles can be very slow when I make a big project so I was hoping GM2 is much faster.

 

[alexandervrs]

UI general: Double clicking into a textbox should select all, but it doesn't.

As far as UI controls go, I'd also add that number-related fields should always be a spinner control for quick small adjustments,
Clicking on an editable combobox and pressing up/down arrow key should trigger the dropdown menu so you can select item via keyboard,
and spinner controls should work with mousewheel when they have focus (half of the time trying to adjust them via mousewheel and it just scrolls the workspace instead)

Window animations when opening/closing object editors, etc. take time. Ideally I'd like them to take 0ms, or at least much less time than they do.

I've suggested that they should be much faster. There is an option to turn them off in the Preferences but I don't just want to turn them off since they give some extra flair to the UI.

Workspaces: it takes a lot of scrolling around to navigate workspaces. I don't like having to scroll so much -- particularly horizontal scrolling. I think this will take getting used to, and a good tutorial video showing the basic and advanced features of Workspaces and suggestions for best practices for organizing your workspaces for efficiency would be awesome.

Only complaint that I have with that is that there should be a minimap of sorts. And in the Room Editor, there should be an option to get the old mousewheel zoom back (no need to hold down Ctrl, just use the mousewheel, it's more fluid)

most of the time the bottom of the window is clipped beneath the compile messages pane, meaning that I can't see the syntax tips when trying to type a GML function

That's a known bug I think and it'll be looked into later on.

 

[csanyk]

sprite editor: UI controls tab order is... weird. (If I'm currently focused on the Collision Mask Left textbox, and I hit tab, it goes down to Top, then up to the Collision Box expander, then to the add new frame control...)

They should review the UI controls tab order for all windows.

UI general:

I'm dismayed that pretty much everything (in terms of the UI) has to be re-learned. Most of the basic concepts are still the same, but I have to re-learn the icon and location of almost everything. It might be prettier, but it's slowing me down to have to re-learn this stuff.

code editor: syntax highlighting colors are too colorful for my taste. I would prefer somewhat desaturated version of the default color scheme.

Any chance we can get a classic skin?

Workspaces:

it takes a lot of scrolling around to navigate workspaces. I don't like having to scroll so much -- particularly horizontal scrolling. I think this will take getting used to, and a good tutorial video showing the basic and advanced features of Workspaces and suggestions for best practices for organizing your workspaces for efficiency would be awesome.

Someone above suggested a mini map to make navigating Workspaces more easy, and I think that's a good suggestion. As well, constraining the height of the window in the current workspace "row" so that it fills the workspace and uses a scrollbar, rather than being cut off or overflowing, would be a big help.

 

[xot]

Compile speed is rather slow compared to GMS1.4, even for a very tiny project consisting of two objects and one room. I'm hoping this will be better optimized once out of beta?

In earlier testing with a very large project I found compilation speed to be somewhat (though not drastically) faster than GMS1.4. Hopefully that doesn't bend my NDA too much.

 

[csanyk]

In earlier testing with a very large project I found compilation speed to be somewhat (though not drastically) faster than GMS1.4. Hopefully that doesn't bend my NDA too much.

That's encouraging; perhaps there are optimizations that are felt more in larger projects than in smaller ones.

For me, though, it was definitely noticeably slower on my tiny project -- to the point where after hitting the Play button, after a time I started wondering whether I'd hit the wrong button or if the keyboard had not registered the keystroke. I didn't time it (I'll have to do that later tonight) but it felt like it was taking a good 30+ seconds to compile two objects (a spaceship and a bullet) and one room with one instance of the spaceship. I sure hope that isn't the way it'll be when we're out of beta, and it's just some diagnostic stuff that's slowing it down in the beta.

 

[xot]

Oh, that poor performance seems very unusual. Never seen anything like that in any testing. Maybe a system configuration issue manifesting it?

 

[csanyk]

Oh, that poor performance seems very unusual. Never seen anything like that in any testing. Maybe a system configuration issue manifesting it?

Could be; I can investigate and see... any suggestions on how to troubleshoot/diagnose?

My machine is pretty high end (Lenovo ThinkPad P50, Xeon CPU, 64GB RAM, PCIe NVMe M2 SSD) so the hardware specs are more than good enough.

 

[Jobo]

Workspaces: it takes a lot of scrolling around to navigate workspaces.

It takes a lot of scrolling if the only method of navigation you use is scrolling. I highly suggest familiarising with the Go To (Ctrl+T) command as well the "Windows" submenu in the workspace right-click menu. The only time I scroll around in the workspace is when I know that what I'm going to is immediately above or below where I am. I use Ctrl+T and the Windows submenu a lot. I also have the preference General -> Workspace -> Allow workspace chains to overlap set to ENABLED as this allows me to pack more content onto a single screen at once.

It might be prettier, but it's slowing me down to have to re-learn this stuff.

The thing with having to learn new and improved workflows is that you are only slowed down while you're learning them. Once you've learned how to use these new features and workflows, you will be a lot more capable than you would ever be in GMS 1.x. You can be slow forever, or you can learn how to use a new program and only be slow temporarily

Window animations when opening/closing object editors, etc. take time. Ideally I'd like them to take 0ms, or at least much less time than they do.

ENABLE the preference General -> Disable IDE transition animations. That will remove animations and thus give you your "0ms". You should've had a poke through the preferences first.

my preference is for that code editor window to be maximized, but it isn't if the default chain view is used

Being worked on.

sprite editor: collision mask size doesn't match sprite size. (Create new sprite, resize to 16x16, collision mask still goes from 0,0 to 64,64

Being worked on.

it felt like it was taking a good 30+ seconds to compile two objects

It does not to my knowledge spit out 30 seconds worth of output. So nothing to worry about.... If you get it more times, file a bug for it and someone will take a look.

 

[Kahvana]

@csanyk A classic skin is a good suggestion . I was really missing that one in GMS2

 

[Mike]

We've no interest in doing a "classic skin". But if someone else wants to - knock yourself out

 

[GerPronouncedGrr]

code editor: syntax highlighting colors are too colorful for my taste. I would prefer somewhat desaturated version of the default color scheme.

We've no interest in doing a "classic skin". But if someone else wants to - knock yourself out

Besides which, you can just go in to the text editor preferences and change the colours to whatever you like?

 

[csanyk]

Besides which, you can just go in to the text editor preferences and change the colours to whatever you like?

Of course; but it's a bit of a pain to do each one one at a time, and to have to figure out what each color is. It'd be better to have it all saved together in a profile.

And it's not just about the syntax highlighting colors in the code editor.

 

[csanyk]

We've no interest in doing a "classic skin". But if someone else wants to - knock yourself out

Is it possible to create our own skins, then? Where do we get started?

 

[csanyk]

It takes a lot of scrolling if the only method of navigation you use is scrolling. I highly suggest familiarising with the Go To (Ctrl+T) command as well the "Windows" submenu in the workspace right-click menu. The only time I scroll around in the workspace is when I know that what I'm going to is immediately above or below where I am. I use Ctrl+T and the Windows submenu a lot. I also have the preference General -> Workspace -> Allow workspace chains to overlap set to ENABLED as this allows me to pack more content onto a single screen at once.

Thanks for the tip; I'll give it a try and see how I like it.

The thing with having to learn new and improved workflows is that you are only slowed down while you're learning them. Once you've learned how to use these new features and workflows, you will be a lot more capable than you would ever be in GMS 1.x. You can be slow forever, or you can learn how to use a new program and only be slow temporarily

Granted. I am only lamenting because this is so much change all at once. Over the last 20 years of being on the web, I've grown accustomed to application development being continuous and incremental. GMS2 was developed in pretty tight secrecy, and a total rewrite. I'm glad to have it, but in general I find that it's better to make small, incremental changes gradually, small enough changes that they don't require a lot of re-training, and you don't lose the uesrs. It's not always possible to have this, but it's always desirable as compared to dramatic changes that require retraining. I'll get used to things in time, I'm sure.

ENABLE the preference General -> Disable IDE transition animations. That will remove animations and thus give you your "0ms". You should've had a poke through the preferences first.

Yep, I found the setting after posting this... I'm happy now.

It does not to my knowledge spit out 30 seconds worth of output. So nothing to worry about.... If you get it more times, file a bug for it and someone will take a look.

Fortunately it doesn't seem to be doing it anymore today.

 

[kburkhart84]

Just piping in my opinion...about the fact that a whole lot is changing all at once...I tend to agree that it would be better to do little by little. But I also understand how in this specific case, it probably wasn't worth it for them to do that, as what it really needed was indeed a complete re-write. I would think that from here on, the changes are much smaller instead of super drastic like this one is. They just have to get over that huge hurdle of needing the re-write first.

 

[csanyk]

Just piping in my opinion...about the fact that a whole lot is changing all at once...I tend to agree that it would be better to do little by little. But I also understand how in this specific case, it probably wasn't worth it for them to do that, as what it really needed was indeed a complete re-write. I would think that from here on, the changes are much smaller instead of super drastic like this one is. They just have to get over that huge hurdle of needing the re-write first.

I get that... and I was expecting that the new IDE would be quite different, a redesign, not just a port of the old IDE to rewrite it in modern C++.

It's just that, in addition to the new UI, we also have some significant changes to GML... it's a lot to take in all at once. I'm gradually warming up to it.

 

[kburkhart84]

You must have been a heavy user of the view system, or the functions that got changed to gpu_.... GML doesn't appear to have changed that must for the most part except a few function calls to implement the layer system and new tile system. Maybe I missed something.

 

[Mike]

The new IDE and systems we've added are incredibly powerful and make for some seriously rapid development. If you watch my game in a day streams, you'll see I can now churn stuff out because of things like the new room editor, the layers, the new runtime tile systems and so forth.

There was no point in spending all that time, making something almost the same and calling it a new product. On top of that, folk would complain (even more) that it should have been a free upgrade.

It is new, but the workflow is SO much better in my (biased) opinion, that once you get used to it, you'll never want to go back.

 

[csanyk]

The new IDE and systems we've added are incredibly powerful and make for some seriously rapid development. If you watch my game in a day streams, you'll see I can now churn stuff out because of things like the new room editor, the layers, the new runtime tile systems and so forth.

It is new, but the workflow is SO much better in my (biased) opinion, that once you get used to it, you'll never want to go back.

I'm sure you're right, once I get used to it. I'm still only a few hours in (I've been poking a bit here and there, taking notes, and spending a lot of time reading the manual and the forums) so I expect I'll feel at home eventually.

There was no point in spending all that time, making something almost the same and calling it a new product. On top of that, folk would complain (even more) that it should have been a free upgrade.

It's funny, because if you asked me, I would have told you that a new version that delivered some new features and a solid base for adding new features that I felt immediately at home in would be more valuable than a new version that overwhelms me with so many new things that I have to slow down my development for a few weeks and focus on learning.

I'm sure when you go away and develop something in secret, before it is revealed everyone has a different idea of what it's going to be like. In my own mind, I had imagined a mostly-famliar IDE, with all modal windows replaced with non-modal windows, better text rendering and UI scaling for users who have Windows set up with larger fonts than standard, some improvements to the Image Editor and Room Editor, and that's about it.

Mind you, I'm in no way trying to second guess your design choices. I do think the new IDE is pretty awesome, and the changes that you've made to the engine and to the language, once I'm up to speed with them, I'll appreciate.

 

[Mike]

We did talk to lots of the devs under NDA at shows, conferences - and little roadshows to make sure we were on the right track. I did litterally travel the world talking to devs, in person and over the net.m several times throughout the development actually. These changes weren't done in isolation but with as much feedback from devs who use it every day, as we could get. Things like the sound mixer was as a direct consequence of these discussions.

Change is hard, but there was so much wrong with 1.x, we had to make a break from the past.

 

[csanyk]

We did talk to lots of the devs under NDA at shows, conferences - and little roadshows to make sure we were on the right track. I did litterally travel the world talking to devs, in person and over the net.m several times throughout the development actually. These changes weren't done in isolation but with as much feedback from devs who use it every day, as we could get. Things like the sound mixer was as a direct consequence of these discussions.

Good to know. But it was pretty hush-hush to the general public, which is what I meant.

there was so much wrong with 1.x, we had to make a break from the past.

No doubt! I've been waiting for this day to come for years