1. Hello Guest! It's with a heavy heart that we must announce the removal of the Legacy GMC Archive. If you wish to save anything from it, now's the time! Please see this topic for more information.
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OFFICIAL Legacy GMC Archive Is Being Deleted

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Nocturne, Nov 22, 2019.

  1. FrostyCat

    FrostyCat Member

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    I'm more so talking about material that may still be of current importance in that section, for example the pinned topic on multi-resolution support, Humble Bundle or high scores on Ruby on Rails (the last one I plan to update soon). But you're right, the old content should go, and the rest distributed into new sections.
     
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  2. CrazyNinjaMike

    CrazyNinjaMike Member

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    If you just don't want it to appear on Google searches, simply change the gmc.yoyogames.com/robots.txt file to be:
    Code:
    User-agent: *
    Disallow: /
    
     
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  3. cgPixel

    cgPixel Member

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    They already do this, the subdomain isn't listed in the Google SERPs anymore.
    The searches argument isn't valid since the official shutdown (archived).

    @topic:
    Too bad, but there will be someone who will archive a complete and portable html version anyway.
     
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  4. Alice

    Alice Toolmaker of Bucuresti Forum Staff Moderator

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    Phew... just included basic data for each Jam from the previous forum. I'll probably get to re-uploading whichever ZIPs are available sometime tomorrow, and take care of the remaining games as soon as I get back to my other PC.
    Archiving is haaard. >.<
     
  5. zendraw

    zendraw Member

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    just let it die,
     
  6. xot

    xot GMLscripter GMC Elder

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    YoYo went to significant lengths to ensure the old forums were deindexed from search engines long ago. If you are in a hurry to find things to preserve, your only chance to find it is with the forum's own search system, which has flood control measures that make repeated searches unbearable.

    This could have been handled so gracefully but YoYo's idea of celebrating 20 years of GameMaker is to delete everything that made that milestone possible. How many careers were launched by GameMaker? Destroying that lineage, all that context, all that documentation, all those early works — that kind of disregard for one's community, and preservation in general, is shocking.
     
  7. Wayfarer

    Wayfarer Member

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    I just made a custom scraper for the old forum and archived "Tutorials and Examples". Since it's a smaller subforum I thought it would be a good test. It's about 100mb of data though you could organise in a way so it takes up much less (there's a lot of HTML that could be discarded).

    Was just about to post the link to it and realised this probably isn't allowed!! Going to take it down now.
    Edit: just took the site down.

    It's not too hard getting the posts of the old forum... being able to make them public is another thing because I'm guessing YoYo Games wouldn't want this.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2019
  8. HayManMarc

    HayManMarc Member

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    RIP old forums. I will really miss you. :(
     
  9. LilRony

    LilRony Member

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    What a coincidence that I was just thinking about that the other day!
    Sad to see it go, but happy to see gamemaker 2 is growing. I can't wait to switch over to it!
     
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  10. w0rm

    w0rm Member

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    The unfortunate fact is that the electronic computer industry has already lost important parts of its heritage. The decision from YoYo Games to completely delete this forum archive is a new devastating neglect in this history.

    While I fully understand the reasoning for this plan purely from practical point of view, I would urge YoYo Games to seriously consider impacts for any future historical studies and generations to come. The gaming industry will for sure be under active historical study and with no doubt Game Maker and especially its active community has - and should have - an important role in this.

    Thank you!
     
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  11. lolslayer

    lolslayer Member

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    Can we at least get a proper elaboration why this is even necessary?
     
  12. Nocturne

    Nocturne Friendly Tyrant Forum Staff Admin

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    Just a wee update to this... the date for deletion has been postponed by two weeks until the 17th of December, as some of you have requested.
     
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  13. Metroid3D

    Metroid3D Member

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    As someone who's long since migrated to GMS2 this sucks, especially the rule about stuff to be to be aplicable to GMS2. There's tons of old, weird games, examples and engines there that might not be grabbed unless someone manages to scrape the whole thing.
    ^ What he said
     
  14. j123

    j123 Member

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    Just saw this post today! THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for setting the forum deletion back to 17th of December 2019! I can't say thank you enough! :)

    That should be plenty of time for me and others to get what they need off of the forums before they are gone forever, but I would like to put in a vote to make it for December 31st, 2019. It would be a good, symbolic way to end the 2010s, plus it would give me extra time to go through everything, since I have game development deadlines I need to make for the holiday season. But if the 17th is the latest you can go, I can work around that, and I thank you for the extra time that has been given!

    Those forums (and the YoYo Games forums) are HEAVILY nostalgic to me, and it's crazy to think that software I first used in 2003 (Game Maker 4.3), has now advanced to where I can export to the biggest gaming platforms of our time (Android, iOS, PS4, XboxOne, Switch).

    That animation on this post (https://www.yoyogames.com/blog/481/gamemaker-studio-1-4-9999-released) made me tear up last year when I saw it, and now with this news, I have another round of tears! No, not tears of sadness, tears of joy knowing that the end of one era is here as a new era opens up for all game developers!

    #ThankYouGMC #ThankYouGameMaker #ThankYouYoYoGames #GMCForever
     
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  15. TheMiningBoyAlpha

    TheMiningBoyAlpha Member

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    Deleting history, always a good idea, am i right?
     
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  16. HayManMarc

    HayManMarc Member

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    So, so, so very sad. I just waded thru to find my own WIP topics. Over 400 pages (over 21000 wips in Alpha Projects alone) of game attempts and ideas spanning back to 2005. All just to be thrown out like last week's newspaper. It really is shocking that there is no way to preserve this.

    Edit: Can the data base at least be saved to be transferred at a later date? At least for these project posts? It just seems like such a shame to lose all that history.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2019
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  17. Jabbers

    Jabbers Member

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    The legacy GMC was the first forum I ever came across. I first found it in 2005 when I was just a child. Not only that, but it was the first community I ever joined, and it kickstarted my game development journey.

    I understand why hosting a depreciated forum is a bad idea, if only from a security point of view. I'm not in favour of permanency when it comes to online content anyway. I'm enjoying the direction GameMaker Studio 2 has taken us and I agree that the helpfulness of the old forum (and the outdated GML advice it offers) has reached its limit. I very much doubt those of us old enough to care about the removal of the legacy archive are still in need of this help. I never consult the archive even when I need advice and it hasn't hurt me.

    Despite my history with the forum, I don't feel overly sentimental about it. The community changed a lot over the years and in a sense what it was has died many times. What I will miss the least is the inane collection of crap that is the off-topic archive.
     
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  18. Fanatrick

    Fanatrick Member

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  19. FrostyCat

    FrostyCat Member

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  20. dannyjenn

    dannyjenn Member

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    Well it took me about three or four hours, but I've finished downloading everything I need. Thanks again for the notice :) (If I hadn't seen Nocturne's post on Facebook, I probably would have missed it. I don't visit the forums much these days...)
     
  21. Guest User

    Guest User Guest

    Might as well delete my account here then, I only use 1.4 as I strongly dislike the "workspace" in 2.

    Was fun while it lasted, bye.
     
  22. Yal

    Yal GMC Memer GMC Elder

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    Nothing stops you from using GMS1 and the new GMC at once? It's not like you can post topics in the legacy forum anyway...
     
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  23. Catastrophe

    Catastrophe Member

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    I'm surprised someone dislike the workspace of GMS 2. You just need to know where laptop mode is and know how to clear the layout every now and then. I hated it at first, but in a few minutes it was much better.
     
  24. tsm

    tsm Member

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    The fleeting nature of the internet is sad and scary. The GMC I knew best is already long gone, but let this be a lesson to everyone: back up all your stuff you care about. Don't count on a company to do it for you.
     
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  25. Misty

    Misty Member

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    How bout no. This is absolutely unnacceptable and you can't just delete countless, hundreds and thousands of hours of work and history like that.
     
  26. Mike

    Mike nobody important GMC Elder

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    LOL.... this made me laugh.

    How about. Yes.... they totally can, and should! :D

    Though.... technically.... I'd guess it's not a permanent deletion. It'll be in the companies backups and I'd guess they'll keep a copy "somewhere", just not public. Though.... perhaps not. Who knows.... It wasn't that large, so sticking it on a drive somewhere wouldn't hurt.

    Pretty sure the old Sandbox was still sitting on a drive somewhere when I left. :p
     
  27. Misty

    Misty Member

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    Banner says "We announce with a heavy heart the removal of the old gmc"
    Admin discusses this with laughter and funny emotes

    This world and human race.
     
  28. Mike

    Mike nobody important GMC Elder

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    No admin has discussed with "laughter" and "funny" emotes. I have.... because I think it's well past time it's gone, and that if it hadn't been announced about 8 folk would have actually noticed. And I think a lot of this is being misty eyed about peoples own past and history, which only they care about, and if you want to keep your past and history, I think it's up to you to record it and back it up, not a company who's software you "happen" to use at the time.

    But then.... I'm neither a mod nor an admin.... so yes, I chuckle at it all. But then, that's probably because I've been through this so many times myself, and can't believe people seem to expect others to do it for them.
     
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  29. Misty

    Misty Member

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    If they have a heavy heart then why don't they just let the forums live. Why are they making a drama about this.

    Why can't humans just, not destroy something and insist on making a tragedy for no reason. Why not just, preserve and cherish life and history, instead of just trying to destroy everything like a typical human. In society, destroying stuff is frowned upon, we have museums, you know, to respect and cherish history, and we don't go around, burning museums down for no reason.
     
  30. Mike

    Mike nobody important GMC Elder

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    This is what I find funny.

    Why should they? It's old, outdated, taking up resources and is a target for hackers. Why A) take the risk, and B) care about something that does nothing for their business.

    There is nothing stopping folk from getting a web crawler and downloading the lot. But no... folk seem to like to moan about it instead.
    (this is not aimed at you, just a general observation!)

    I've also argued that there is nothing there actually worth preserving - from an overall gaming point of view. Sure, an individual might have some stuff on there they might miss, but it's mainly a mass of unfinished projects, and folk asking how to make catch the clown or something.

    It's not worth preserving on mass.... but if you wee a bit you miss. Save the pages.
     
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  31. Misty

    Misty Member

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    Because it inspires apathy and just a general bad attitude.

    And maybe you do have a point, because most of the links and screenshots are dead anyway. Which is another problem altogether. But its just basically like deleting culture and history, I mean what kind of society destroys museums because museums happen to "take up resources". There must be some way to prevent hackers.
     
  32. Nocturne

    Nocturne Friendly Tyrant Forum Staff Admin

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    Museums are CURATED and only the finest and most important examples of culture are saved and preserved. If this wasn't the case, then we might as well call garbage dumps museums and preserve them, which is essentially what preserving the entire old forum is like... 99% useless and 1% useful! We have topics here on the current forum where you can preserve the useful bits, so maybe, instead of complaining here - since you like the museum analogy so much - you should go and curate the 1% that's useful and preserve it in those topics.
     
  33. Misty

    Misty Member

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    Museum curators also get a salary...
     
  34. Nocturne

    Nocturne Friendly Tyrant Forum Staff Admin

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    Lol! That's a lovely mercenary attitude you have there! I don't get a salary for being forum admin, and yet here I am curating your posts and the rest of the GMC... Neither does @FrostyCat or @Wayfarer yet there they are, doing a tremendous job of trying to preserve the good bits of the old forum and not posting here complaining about not getting paid for it. ;)
     
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  35. Misty

    Misty Member

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    You get a salary from Yoyogames, I am almost certain you do.

    One more thing I forgot to add is also, not sure Wayback machine will preserve the gmc that well, maybe it will, or maybe many pages might disappear.
     
  36. Nocturne

    Nocturne Friendly Tyrant Forum Staff Admin

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    I do yes, but only for the documentation. The GMC is not part of that and never has been (if it was I wouldn't be online NOW at 11 o'clock at night replying to you).

    Note, I've edited your post to remove allegations against another member. If you have an issue then REPORT the person, but don't call them out in a topic (we do have a rule against this).
     
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  37. Mike

    Mike nobody important GMC Elder

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    This is basically it......... 99.99999999999999% of the stuff on there is rubbish. There is some stuff there that "might" be useful, but actually not that important.

    The stuff that everyone appears to be getting annoyed about, is the loss of culture. As someone who's been around for several generations of gaming "culture", I can say this isn't culture. The historic bit would simply be that it existed at all. The detail of it, is unimportant. A few successful indies came from here. Does it matter than SlimeHead0091 once did a post about finishing a tutorial? Or that TightHeadGames CEO (aged 12) was looking to team up with someone to make an MMORPG? No.... none of it matters. It's all bollocks. If folk can salvage a few bits, fine. Otherwise - let it die.

    As to Nocturne being "paid" to run this.... He's the technical writer, being a friendly tyrant is more of a hobby. Really, YoYo's community manager is the only one who's "paid" to do this - amongst other things.
     
  38. Misty

    Misty Member

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    Yes I know, but the point is, you still get a salary for them, whereas I don't, and thus don't have much incentive to volunteer, especially because they never listen to my ideas anyway anymore.
     
  39. Cpaz

    Cpaz Member

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    Gonna just say, I posted only crap on the old forum. There's stuff that should probably be salvaged from it, but certainly nothing from me. So I can't say I'm sad in that regard.

    It is sad in terms of that it's sort of the end of an era. That forum lasted for over a decade, dating back to GM 7 or 8. Maybe 6 even? It is sad to see it go.

    But I like it better here tbh.
    >:3
     
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  40. Desert Dog

    Desert Dog Member

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    Sure. And the GMC was, and is curated. By many volunteers. Chronic, Xot, KC LC, to name a few, all the way up to yourself.

    The forum rules were created, moderated and enforced by these volunteers over the years. One of the forum rules, as you'll know:
    *emphasis added*.

    For over a dozen years this community has operated on the basis of mutual growth together: Even if you don't think your content is the best, you *don't* go back to delete it, as it still contributed to the community as a whole. This is the basis that this community has always operated on: Mutual respect and growth as individuals and as a community. And it worked pretty good.. not perfect, but pretty good. (You could argue it worked a lot better when there was no 'Community Chat', but there you are.)

    Now: The argument of 'this is a security risk and has to be done': Or 'that it's expensive to maintain'... ok, I get it. Maybe YYG's is broke, and can't afford to pay the hosting. We get it.

    But the additional argument of 'well, it was 99% garbage anyway, so we're going to just delete it is simply "rude and selfish". It flips the basis that this forum has always operated on it's head, and is pretty disrespectful to not only hours of content the users themselves have created, but also the staff who 'curated' that content.

    And @Mike, we get it: GMS is your baby. :rolleyes:

    You know, they are doing a great job. And they aren't complaining, but it would be preeetty cool if YYG's *did* throw a bone to these guys, and anyone else who contributes to converting these great tutorials to GMS2 for YYG's for free. :)
    Like maybe, say, gift a few extra Developer exports? Wouldn't be the worst idea to gift a bunch of exports to people who *like* spending their time creating tutorials and content for the community for free. And it'd be a nice goodwill gesture of YYG's, after Thanos-ing the old GMC. Maybe something to mention at your next meeting with the YYGs?. ;)
     
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  41. Mike

    Mike nobody important GMC Elder

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    First.... the GMC is not "curated", it's simply checked for basic rules. Museums take the very best of things, the pinnacle of any item. Forums like these can't, and should never - do that.

    As to rude and selfish. I totally disagree. Everyone - every single person, when learning, is utter crap. This goes from the best of us, to the worst of us. These forums are mainly here for folk to learn and get going. Once someone is able to progress properly, they'll tend to disappear. Sure you get some folk who hang around to help out new comers - and that is brilliant, but you usually won't see these people asking questions themselves, they are here to help, and to contribute back. So by definition, everyone who is asking things, posting stuff is usually a newcomer, or someone learning the tool.

    This doesn't tend to make for great content, certainly not something to "keep". Yes you get the "odd" interesting thing, but usually it's just a question in someones own personal journey.

    And GMS is no longer my baby - it's YoYo's. I'm just here for the ride like everyone else....

    As to paying forum members. This is actually a legal minefield. If you start to do this, then moderators become YoYo employees, and once the forum is moderated by employees, YoYo becomes liable for every thing put on here. As it stands, as it's "user generated and moderated" content, they can - legally, simply address things like copyright infringement and the like, by taking it down. Without that, they could be sued directly by copyright holders.
     
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  42. GMWolf

    GMWolf aka fel666

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    I'm glad it's getting deleted. I posted a bunch of things that were wrong at the time, or wrong now that GM changed, best if no one sees that :D
     
  43. Homunculus

    Homunculus Member

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    Same. I checked if there was anything I posted that’s worth preserving, but now I just want to burn it with fire.
     
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  44. Desert Dog

    Desert Dog Member

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    It's definitely not a 1-to-1 to a museum curation. The point is there were rules which were enforced (strictly!) to maintain the integrity of communities contents. Certain forum contents (such as Advanced programming discussions, Staff choice tutorials, etc) *is* analysed and promoted/demoted when/where appropriate by forum staff.

    (..also, very best of things? Pinnacle of any item? You haven't visited many rural museum's, have ya? =)))

    Oh, so you're up for changing the forum rule, which says do not go back and delete your history/posts? So everyone should be free to go back and replace their posts with a "."?

    I mean.. it's all just crap, right?

    Huh, wait, what? You've got no vested interest in GMS anymore? That's surprising.

    Aah. That is a shame.

    ..but I don't give up that easily! It's not paying as in employee. It's been organised as a Jam. Jam's have prizes, often donated by users. Maybe a company can, too. YYG's has organized competitions in the past with prize money: These wouldn't even be monetary (it's just a software license for an export)

    I was curious about the potential issues with copyright. Probably would have to contact original content creators to get permissions.
     
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  45. Mike

    Mike nobody important GMC Elder

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    LOL - no.... but even they will take the best of what they can find, even if that happens to be a dead cat in a bag. :D

    That rule wasn't for quality control, but to maintain conversations. If someone posts several posts and there is an on going discussion, and then deletes half that discussion, it totally kills the board. I've seen this already with some people editing their posts and removing content. It's horrible... totally screws up big threads.

    I haven't worked at YoYo Games for about a year now.....


    Doesn't have to be monetary, any kind of "reward" has it's own pitfalls and legality's. Basically... it's a minefield and very complicated, and I'd guess Playtech legal just wouldn't allow it. Pre-Playtech, mods did sometimes get some licenses as a thank you, but I don't know what the rules are now, as even gifting now has legal implications....
     
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  46. Desert Dog

    Desert Dog Member

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    Not quite that bad... but maybe someone will donate their grandma's sewing machine. "This is how they use to make clothes, back in the day! See, she had to pump the pedal herself!".

    Still: Small museum's are always charming, (although some of them might not quite have as much historical significance as they'd like to think.. :p)

    You know what would kill a discussion even more? Deleting the whole conversation. :D
    It's not just for a conversation thread, it was for the topics itself. But we might have to just agree to disagree on this.

    Sure, I know don't work there anymore,... I read your blog about your GM journey when I was trying to assess the health of GM these days.
    ...But you reeeally don't have any investment/shares/ownership? o_O


    Well, we tried.
     
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  47. gnysek

    gnysek Member

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    I think, that deletion of old forum have a trivial source. It's based on IPB boards, so it need to be maintained, and even paid for licence. While this is not a lot of money for a company like YYG, the problem is, that someone need to keep it updated and maintained so it can't be hacked. Who used that forum, remembers, that several times it was hacked. Our data is still there - emails, passwords, nicknames, etc. - and as there those GDPR laws, which requires to prevent and inform about every security flaw - there's no sense for YYG to keep old forums. Why one person should work in it several times a week, when this person can work on something better (for example upgrading web version of marketplace, as it didn't have any big update for a long time).

    I'm also not happy that they gonna be deleted, as it's a big part of my life and it helped me to achieve several goals in life (like working at YYG at some time), but after the GML changes they gonna made this winter - I see why they want to drop the past behind, and since GML will be totally a different language it may be good to just drop the past. In fact even all those old examples/tutorials which will be converted to GMS2 now, could be possibly optimized and rewritten in 1-2 months thanks to new syntax, so even after converting to GMS2 they will be not up to date - and may learn bad habits in a totally new world of GMS. That's why I proposed at some time, that with all that changes GMS should became 3.0 not 2.3, and that would cause more sense to drop old community.

    So - those two reasons seems to be enough, even if it's a big loss and we all have a big fondness for those old community. But in fact if they didn't announce they gonna be deleted, how often you were using it, and did you even remembered, that they were still there?
     
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  48. Mike

    Mike nobody important GMC Elder

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    No, Playtech bought YoYo Games completely back in 2015, everyone there is just an employee now.

    No, this is one thing we DID do before archiving it. All email addresses and passwords were removed (except Nocturnes), so even if someone did get in, they'd get nothing from it. The problem is that it could compromise the "machine" it's on, not that sensitive info could be stolen.
     
  49. Desert Dog

    Desert Dog Member

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    Ah, that's interesting. Hope you got paid out a nice sum for it. I had assumed they'd distribute shares to their top developers: The typical incentive plan to try keep you bonded to the tool, and slave away for a sub-par salary.

    What kind of machines are you running? Assuming a cloud setup (AWS, Azure) shouldn't be very expensive at all to fire up a separate node and dump it on it.. and danger of hack is gone. Might be a good project for an intern.
     
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  50. Mike

    Mike nobody important GMC Elder

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    It was a physical machine - the forums need a fairly meaty setup at peak times, lots of RAM SSD etc. But they were slowly migrating most things to the cloud, which might be another reason it's getting dropped. If it is finally moving to the cloud, why migrate something you don't want to keep going, it's an extra hassle and expense on top of maintenance problems.

    Basically loads of reasons to drop it....
     
    Desert Dog and SilentxxBunny like this.

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