1. Hello Guest! It's with a heavy heart that we must announce the removal of the Legacy GMC Archive. If you wish to save anything from it, now's the time! Please see this topic for more information.
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OFFICIAL Legacy GMC Archive Is Being Deleted

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Nocturne, Nov 22, 2019.

  1. Nocturne

    Nocturne Friendly Tyrant Forum Staff Admin

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    Hello everyone! As we gear up for the new Sequences Update to GameMaker Studio 2, we have decided that the legacy GMC forum archive (here) is going to be deleted. It was useful for a time when Studio 1.4 was around and at the start of the lifetime of Studio 2, but it's losing relevance rapidly and with the coming changes it will be pretty much obsolete as a resource. I have very fond memories of that forum, especially as it's where I learned so much of what I know today, but all good things must come to an end and so it's time to move on and retire for good the old forums.

    The actual deletion date will be December 17th 2019, so you have until then to copy any posts or content that you think you may still find useful or that has any relevance to you personally, and then it's gone for good.

    To everyone that remembers and participated in the forums and that helped me and hundreds of thousands of others along the path of knowledge, I thank you!

    All the best!

    Nocturne

    EDIT:

    There are topics available for anyone who wishes to share old posts that are still relevant to GameMaker Studio 2 in the following sections:

    Tutorials: https://forum.yoyogames.com/index.php?threads/gmc_archive-tutorials.69626/
    Programming: https://forum.yoyogames.com/index.php?threads/gmc-archive-programming.69625/
    Game Development and Design: https://forum.yoyogames.com/index.php?threads/gmc-archive-game-design-development.69628/
    Past GMC Jams: https://forum.yoyogames.com/index.php?threads/gmc-archive-past-gmc-jams.69629

    Please READ THE RULES before posting.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2019
  2. MissingNo.

    MissingNo. Member

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    Oh, I was under the impression it would be archived forever. A bit of a shame but I understand the decision.
     
  3. TheouAegis

    TheouAegis Member

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    NooO!!!! ...I don't know what I want to archive, but I know there are some things!

    Like torigara's transitions, or what few tuts I made, or...I'm sure there are plenty more that are just in need of a few simple code tweaks.

    :(
     
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  4. JML

    JML Wabbajackalope

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    would it be ok if a team of people went through flagging relevant material to keep, such as tutorials? their is still a ton of good stuff on there that IMO still is relevant and useful.

    we could just set up a thread for people to dump links into and i bet we could get most of the forum to help out on such a project, but thats only speaking as one person.

    thank you.
     
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  5. Nocturne

    Nocturne Friendly Tyrant Forum Staff Admin

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    YYG will not be keeping anything I'm afraid. The forum will be 100% deleted, but I am happy to have a thread in the community forum where people can copy/paste interesting or useful topic contents. Once it's finished we can pin it somewhere, but keep in mind that any code MUST be GMS2 compatible.
     
  6. xot

    xot GMLscripter GMC Elder

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    Bad idea.
     
  7. matharoo

    matharoo Udemy Instructor

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    ok just going through all of my posts there for a final cringe session
     
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  8. HayManMarc

    HayManMarc Member

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    Can the old forum be saved thru Internet Archive?

    (I still find answers there to problems I run into.)
     
  9. Homunculus

    Homunculus Member

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    Nice april fool’s pra... oh wait...

    I guess scraping the whole thing as plain html isn’t an option? I have to admit though that it has been ages since I looked for something in there
     
  10. Coded Games

    Coded Games Member

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    No... I'm going to miss being forever on the front page of status posts.

    Spoiler though: That 3D printer was complete garbage.
     
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  11. TheouAegis

    TheouAegis Member

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    How does that one site which preserves old sites work? I can't remember what it's called... The Wayback Machine...or something? Maybe if someone visits every single thread, that site will preserve it? *shrugs* All I know is I went to look up a Japanese site on Geocities one day, only to find out that Geocities was shut down and the site was apparently lost forever...but then I googled it and found it on The Wayback Machine (or whatever the site is called) and was able to save the last known HTML data from the site.
     
  12. Desert Dog

    Desert Dog Member

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    What the man said x2.
     
  13. gnysek

    gnysek Member

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    I would love that it's never deleted, but I understand that as it's still based on IPB, it may require to pay a licence and upgrade IPB so nobody gonna use security hacks.

    I would love if someone make a html copy of http://gmc.yoyogames.com/index.php?showforum=112 as static HTML and gonna put it somewhere (like github pages ? not sure if they gonna allow so many pages).

    Edit:

    Who remember?

    upload_2019-11-22_13-44-46.png
     
  14. Mike

    Mike nobody important GMC Elder

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    This is long overdue. It's incredibly outdated now.

    Google searches still sometimes redirect there instead of here. with GMS2, the info is just wrong much of the time. Good decision.
    Time to move on...... :banana:


    EDIT: Don't think anyone would be allowed to copy it either. It's still technically (c) YoYo, and would still mean searches would redirect to old pages - which would be bad.
     
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  15. zendraw

    zendraw Member

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    yeah right, memes
     
  16. FrostyCat

    FrostyCat Member

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    I understand this could be a feely subject for some users (especially for YYGF types), but it's something that has to be done eventually. In addition to potential for misinformation, there is also room for the old GMC to be exploited again (which was the reason it was back-burnered last time) and used as a springboard onto other YoYo infrastructure.

    On a supporting note, I would like to recommend a tutorial reorganization jam for reviewing/rewriting tutorials from the GMC archive (especially Staff Choice ones), and re-categorizing/archiving those in the current GMC. The current list is just a big mash of disparate tutorials, and I find it hard to look through even as a seasoned user. Dividing it into subcategorized sections --- e.g. for beginners, basic GML theory, graphics, external development, data organization, UI elements, genre-specific development, etc. --- would make it easier to find appropriate content. It's also disingenous to think that misinformation will only come from the GMC archive once GMS 2.3 comes out. Some current topics will become obsolete (e.g. hacks on emulating OOP), others already have broken links, and a handful of them are just so badly written I don't think they have a reason to live. Say, capture the pages within the next 10 days, wait until after the GMC Jam, then start rewriting/reconsidering them over the course of December?

    Also, will you create a "neutral" account under which content by former members can be posted? An example of a topic calling for this is "What's the Difference: Collision Functions", which I repeatedly cite on the Q&A. It's NOT my place to re-post it under my name, I didn't write it. But in my opinion, it's a loss to the community if the article is out for good --- way too many rookies these days are simply illiterate in collision detection theory, no thanks to the most popular instructors catering to them.
     
  17. ZeDuval

    ZeDuval Member

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    Time and time again, I go there looking for obscure old stuff, especially old dll extensions. There is so much interesting stuff to be found, that's still usable. If anyone knows how to preserve it completely, please do it. I could even host it on my server and make it accessible on a subdomain like gmc.zdv.io
     
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  18. Desert Dog

    Desert Dog Member

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    Is that the only reason? As a business, YYG's products have moved on, so the old forum is inconvenient as they reference old products? You know, some people still use the old versions of GM. :)

    The old forum contains countless interesting, and useful discussions, and also represent the colourful history of GM, and it's community. As a sample case, look at Icuurd's account:
    http://gmc.yoyogames.com/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&fromMainBar=1

    18,000 thousand posts. 95% of those posts were technical (he was a prolific Q&A answer), and he contributed to many, many interesting advanced discussions. I've learnt tons from reading that guy. And those 18,000 hours represent a *lot* of hours. That kind of activity is what built this community up, strengthen it, and made GM stand out above other similar tools. I have very warm feeling towards this community because of members like this.

    To just nuke that, simply because it's not convenient for YYG's current product line is a crying shame. And I'm only talking about one guy here! There are dozens of legitimate GM legends who's contributions to this community, and to GM as a whole are documented here.

    Look, I'm an old GMC member. I remember many good, technical (and language agnostic) discussions. Several times over over a year I will look up some topic to have a read: Pseudo 3d, .wav building, etc. Many of these topic concepts are language agnostic. It's kept a connection for me to this community. As such, despite not being active on these forums for 5+ years, (and not being a GMS2 user), now that I need some small edutainment prototypes made for one of my projects, I came here first to try contract a few users to build them for me. GMS2 is actually not my first choice*: I'm here because I still have that community tie. So I bring some potential business back into the community. (Small, business, but business nonetheless.)

    I think if you deleted it, I kind of lose a big piece of that connection. And I suspect many old GM-er's (who aren't current GMS2 customers) also lose that connection.

    * (GMS2 is expensive, and makes collaboration+maintence very difficult/impossible. So for small projects, free, open-source tools like ** generally beat GMS2 because I can use any dev to maintain it: Without forking out hundreds of dollars in licensing.)

    **are we still not allowed to mention competitors? I feel like we're still not allowed to.
     
  19. EvanSki

    EvanSki King of Raccoons

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    Jokes on you Internet archived. ;)
     
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  20. FrostyCat

    FrostyCat Member

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    Is there a reason for taking down the GMC archive on December 3 sharp? If not, I'd prefer the shutdown be delayed until January, so that people interested in salvaging the data would likely have more spare time to do so over the Christmas break.
     
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  21. Bentley

    Bentley Member

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    I hear you. I found your Castlevania there (I'm assuming it was in the archives). It is so well made. Sure, it is not GM2 compatible. BUT that means nothing to me. I learned so much from it without running the project once. An obsolete function here or there does not take away from its value in terms of learning.

    With that said, I do understand the need to direct people to the current manual and the current tutorials (not talking about you, I just tagged you cuz I saw your post and agreed and loved your Castlevania).

    I guess my first thoughts are... is there a middleground? Although the OP was nice and gave the date of deletion. Meh. Just throwing my thoughts out there.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
  22. NeutronCat

    NeutronCat Member

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    I will test some python crawlers.
     
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  23. FrostyCat

    FrostyCat Member

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    While there can be a middleground in terms of sentimental value, there cannot be a middleground in terms of upkeep. Either the archived GMC is up incurring ongoing costs for YoYo (e.g. server maintenance, IPB licensing, keeping it secure, etc.), or it isn't. Any real middleground will be on the initiative of individual members, and it'll happen now or never.
     
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  24. Bluetail7

    Bluetail7 Member

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  25. FrostyCat

    FrostyCat Member

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    Not as-is. Most of that content needs rewriting or adaptation to work out of the box, and you can't expect legacy expertise out of people new enough to need tutorials. In addition, link rot is a growing problem there already, and the upcoming GMS 2.3 update will throw a lot of old ideas about GML into obsolescence (especially the OOP additions).

    If there's content you want to save from those sections (I do as well), save them yourself. Review/rewrite them for GMS 2, then post in the submission topic Nocturne mentioned in post #5 once he puts it up.
     
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  26. Bentley

    Bentley Member

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    Well said. I'm glad in the OP a date was given. I'll glean the archives before.
     
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  27. Nocturne

    Nocturne Friendly Tyrant Forum Staff Admin

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    There will be no neutral or special accounts. Any tutorials or posts that you wish to submit to this forum will need to be posted under your own name, and any credit to previous authors should be given in the topic. I'll hopefully have a post up in the Community Chat section later this evening outlining how I'd like to see this work

    No, it's not the only reason, but it's the only reason I can discuss (and is certainly the most important one... )

    That's the date I was given and I think it's pretty much fixed, but I'll check on Monday to see if there's any wiggle room.
     
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  28. Lukan

    Lukan Gay Wizard Freak

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    Am I sad? Of course! But I'm also happy because I posted a lot of dumb ****e on there!
    Also glad the outdated gm help will be scrubbed from the internet, should reduce the amount of questions regarding ancient gm 7 era code not working.
     
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  29. Yal

    Yal GMC Memer GMC Elder

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    I feel like the 2-week heads' up is a bit short, since a lot of people that were regulars back then maybe visits the new forum a few times per months (I took a hiatus of like half a year recently). I checked on the old GMC in a state of panic... and then I realized I just felt indifferent about a lot of stuff. Some topics were barren, the screenshot URLs long since dead. Others made obsolete by technical advances. My most recent stuff, the games and engines I'm still proud of, already are hosted elsewhere, and the GMC topics were basically the same text blurbs in a different place. What mattered the most to me were the PMs and my first stumbling steps into making friends, but those are already long gone (the PMs, not the friends).

    It's been over a year since I last checked it out, and there wasn't even howling winds or tumbleweed left when I made my last, fateful excursion. When I gaze upon my 11,000 old-GMC posts, I just feel indifference. I've already saved everything I deem worth saving. I've already moved on.
     
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  30. Misu

    Misu The forum's immigrant

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    You cant delete it. All my s***posts are in there.

    this is not tended to be a serious post in case many of you serious kinds are reading this.
     
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  31. Binsk

    Binsk Member

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    Dang... Totally understandable but it's like throwing away part of my childhood (oh right, I'm older now, I can't say that.). Then again, how many times has this happened to the GM forums throughout the years? :p

    @gnysek , Haha, yes! Good ol' days. Dang, that pic alone shows off several names I haven't seen for a long while.
     
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  32. dadio

    dadio Potato Overlord Forum Staff Moderator

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    :(
    I have all da sadz in my tummy.
    And I was only just a few hours earlier lamenting the fact that Tinypic going down took out so many of the images/memes/fun times from the Jam topics.

    I'm sure you guys have your reasons...
    but this move will erase the largest part of GM's/YoYo's history and most of it's fond Community interactions and memories.
    (I'd also argue that a lot of the samples/tutorials stuff you're framing as "obsolete" code-wise, still provide creative problem solving solutions and could be useful.)
    Not cool.

    Personally, my main concern here is the Community Jam.
    History must be preserved!
    If any one section of these boards needs to live on it's the GMC Jam.
    It provides such a unique window through time into what the Community was creating and prototyping with GameMaker over a span of many years.

    If anyone has any good tools for backing up that Jam section, PM me!
    http://gmc.yoyogames.com/index.php?showforum=133

    - dadio of the Jam Preservation Society
     
  33. Cat

    Cat Member

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    At first I was pretty sad about to hear this, but now I just sort of feel indifferent.
    • As far as I can tell, all profile pictures (except Noctune's) are gone.
    • (Almost) all of the images are gone.
    • A number of topics have completely vanished.
    • Many download links no longer work.
    • Much of the code is no longer relevant.
    • The community there... doesn't really seem to exist anymore.
    I'm not part of the discord (cough) so I can't really speak to this, but from what I've seen, most of the old regulars seem to have disappeared.

    I'm sad to see it go, but at this point, it feels like it's kind of a Ship of Theseus -type thing. What's the point of preserving it when "it" doesn't really exist anymore, anyway?
     
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  34. Binsk

    Binsk Member

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    You do know about the wayback machine, right? :p

    It's already backed up across multiple dates:
    https://web.archive.org/web/20181112085628/http://gmc.yoyogames.com/index.php?showforum=133
     
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  35. TheouAegis

    TheouAegis Member

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    I was with you about keeping the tutorials forum, but that one is actually not as good as we like to remember it. A lot of tutorials are not written out in the threats; a lot of them are another form of simply including a link to a video or file. Even some of my tutorials were egregious of this. Many of those links are dead, rendering those tutorials useless.
     
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  36. dadio

    dadio Potato Overlord Forum Staff Moderator

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    @Cat: Tinypic image host going permanently down (in September just gone!) took a massive bite out of the "sense" of the Jam forums.
    (So many game previews/promo images/memes are dead links now because of it.)
    Tragic.

    @Binsk: I hadn't really looked at it much before... but... hmmm... it looks like an incomplete backup.
    Some parts looks a whole lot closer to complete than the current yoyo ones tho for sure...
    odd that some larger Tinypic host images are missing from the Wayback Machine.
    Best to back up both the real yoyo one and that wayback machine one if possible.
     
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  37. RujiK

    RujiK Member

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    I have done my part and archived the most important post from the GMC. Cherish it forever.

    Request: Who Can Make Cool Topdown Character With Gun?
    [​IMG]
     
  38. Catastrophe

    Catastrophe Member

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    Heh, forum staff wants to permanently purge their old ****posts and freeware games as they're starting legit commercial games.

    I'm sure there was a good reason :D
     
  39. Mercerenies

    Mercerenies Member

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    Hey! All three of us YYGF types who are still around resent that remark!

    But yeah, mirroring what Frosty said, it would be nice to have till the new year to get a few things off the old GMC, as there are a few things there that I don't want to lose.
     
  40. GVmG

    GVmG Raechel

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    It's kinda sad, given that I used to be fairly active on the old forums, the friends I made on there and all the stories that spawned even from before I was there. Hell, the way I was able to start seriously learning English is because of the old forums. But I understand the problem even with google searches (I know I've had some angry reactions at google showing me 3 pages of 2013 results for Studio 2 searches). Even though the forums will be deleted I won't forget The Unknown, the 8-year color topic bump (that I see was already posted), "3000 pokeimanz", the clowns and the relentless Ugg Boot bots. And the panties jam, I don't want to forget that. And the god forsaken smiley GameMaker icon, I won't be able to forget that, and trust me I want to.

    I'm glad to see some efforts to back up the more important parts though. As Vinny from Vinesauce once said:

    I'm not active on these forums anymore, not even on the Discord servers that spawned near the end of the old GMC's lifetime. I only just pop in every now and then for the Jams. I wasn't there when the YYGF were a thing. But I'm glad I was able to be a part of the GMC since 2011 or so.

    I wanted this to not be a generic sappy emotional post but I guess I failed huh :p
     
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  41. Fishman1175

    Fishman1175 Member

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    The present will soon be part of the past. Saying so casually that you are about to delete everything and leaving the archiving up to users sends a simple message to me: We don't really value our history as a company, as a product, or as a community.

    Maybe you think I'm being selfish or narrow minded. Fine. But It meant (and still means) a lot to me. I will archive what I can because the past continues to define who I am today.
     
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  42. K12gamer

    K12gamer Member

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    No more Legacy GMC...No more Flash...No more Windows 7 support...

    2020 is gonna suck. :(
     
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  43. IndianaBones

    IndianaBones Member

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    I support the suggestion to extend the deadline for deleting the old forums.

    12 days notice until the removal of a significant portion of the GameMaker community's history is surprisingly short.

    There are treasure troves of information on the old forums.

    At the very least, provide an easy way to archive users information, as I have seen commonly done by other services that shut down.

    Perhaps read only FTP access would it
    make make it easier for users to download relevant parts of the GMC.
     
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  44. Cantavanda

    Cantavanda 〜Flower Prince〜

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    I'm not a fan of erasing history and sweet memories, but I understand how misleading the old topics there can be for GMS2 users and how it can hinder the current forums... It has its pros and cons, but for me personally, it will feel like a lot of nostalgia getting erased.
     
  45. Nocturne

    Nocturne Friendly Tyrant Forum Staff Admin

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    Ummm... You've all had since 2016 to save anything you want from it... ;)

    That would be impossible. The legal ramifications because of GDPR are enormous and would not only take months to complete, but would also cost us AND whomever hosts any backups of the site an absolute fortune. Believe me, this has been studied and looked into a LOT before this decision was taken and it's just not viable to give it to either the internet archive or anyone else. Legally it's a massive can of worms, and financially it makes no sense at all.

    Please don't be so melodramatic... You ve had years to back up the information there and if it was so important to you, you would have. This is not a decision that has been taken lightly but it has been taken out of necessity due to the ageing software the forum is based on and the fact that it's a support nightmare having people coming in with tickets from code that doesn't work and it's because they got it from a legacy site like the old forum. Not to mention the fact that GameMaker has changed a lot and is about to change even more and there is little that is relevant. I get that it has nostalgic value, but nostalgia for a few dozen people is not enough reason to keep something around that is of no real use anymore and is costing time and money to maintain, and that some time in the future will very probably become a liability due to the creaking ancient software that it's using...
     
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  46. MudbuG

    MudbuG Member

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    newyoda.png
     
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  47. FrostyCat

    FrostyCat Member

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    Just because we technically have had the opportunity to do so, it doesn't mean we were informed of the opportunity or the urgency of it. You are comparing an action we would have taken if informed, with an action we have taken when not informed.

    I have also backed up my content during the 2016 closure, but only the PMs since that was the only thing I was told will become inaccessible under the migration option chosen back then. This is evident in Shaun Spalding's announcement (The Community → Announcements → Forum Upgrade starts on Tuesday 29th March!):
    You cannot expect the action you recommended to have come from us between 2016 and your announcement, when the above was what we're told in 2016.

    I still have a decent mental map of my content on there, so I can grab everything I want as a reference from there this weekend. They're mostly stock Q&A answers from myself and some nuggets from NPT. But for other interest groups like the GMC Jam, their needs aren't as simple as mine. Absent other urgent factors (e.g. license renewals, known breaches on the server, etc.), they can and should have a little more time to react.
     
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  48. Nocturne

    Nocturne Friendly Tyrant Forum Staff Admin

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    Posts:
    7,044
    I understand your point of view, but respectfully disagree... the moment any site is closed down (or announced as closing down), the first thing anyone should do is grab what they want from it, regardless of how long it may still be up before disappearing. In this day and age where sites come and go in an instant (look at the above mentioned TinyPic, for example), you shouldn't take it for granted that information will will be there forever. Note that this is simply my own PERSONAL opinion and I'll be relaying the request for a few extra weeks grace to the people in charge on Monday, as this is not a decision that I have anything to do with.
     
    SilentxxBunny likes this.
  49. FrostyCat

    FrostyCat Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2016
    Posts:
    4,698
    Fair enough. But while the grace period isn't something you can do right away, the one thing you can do is to open the archiving topic you promised in post #5 now for us to start putting things there. Say, one for each of these sections:
    • GMC Jam
    • Technical Support
    • Game Design
    • Advanced
    • Tutorials
    Can you do that?
     
    SilentxxBunny and Desert Dog like this.
  50. Nocturne

    Nocturne Friendly Tyrant Forum Staff Admin

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2016
    Posts:
    7,044
    I certainly can, and sorry I forgot... That said, it'll be one for Tutorials, Game Design and Programming (whether advanced or not) in the COMMUNITY section, and then I'll do another one in the GMC Jam forum for old Jam posts. Each topic will have some strict rules which I'd appreciate everyone following as it'll make the staff's lives easier when we prune the topics and then pin them in their appropriate sub-section... as for Tech Support, I'm not sure I see the point? It will be related to legacy products and one of the (many) reasons we're deleting the archive is to stop legacy stuff appearing in searches and stuff.

    EDIT:

    Tutorials is done: https://forum.yoyogames.com/index.php?threads/gmc_archive-tutorials.69626/
    Programming is done: https://forum.yoyogames.com/index.php?threads/gmc-archive-programming.69625/

    I have to sign off for a while, but I'll do the others later this evening. :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2019
    SilentxxBunny and MissingNo. like this.

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