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Question - IDE Isometric game capability - new user question

K

Konger

Guest
Has anyone created an isometric game in GM2? I purchased the 'Isometric Tiles and Knight' project in the marketplace but I can't run it with a trial version.

My end goal is an Android game like Exiled Kingdoms. I would be happy to pay $399 for a license if I was certain GM2 could make this type of isometric game, but I don't want to pay it and find it can't work for my purpose.

Any input or advice welcome.
 
E

Ephemeral

Guest
GMS2 is flexible and low-level enough that the answer to the question, "Can GMS2 make this kind of game?" is always going to be, "Yes, it can." (In theory. Practically speaking you can't really do anything complicated with 3d graphics, but 2d, yes.)

For the same reason, the answer to the question, "Can GMS2 make this kind of game for me if I don't already understand it?" is (almost) always going to be, "No."
 
K

Konger

Guest
GMS2 is flexible and low-level enough that the answer to the question, "Can GMS2 make this kind of game?" is always going to be, "Yes, it can." (In theory. Practically speaking you can't really do anything complicated with 3d graphics, but 2d, yes.)

For the same reason, the answer to the question, "Can GMS2 make this kind of game for me if I don't already understand it?" is (almost) always going to be, "No."
I appreciate your response but it's not very helpful. Based on my question it's evident I am asking about the software's capability, not that of the programmer. The reason I'm asking is I haven't seen any isometric examples although there may be some I haven't uncovered - which is why I'm asking. The 'Isometric Tiles and Knight' project I mentioned above was made for version 1.4 and the author isn't certain the conversion will run properly in GM2.

I would think if isometric game development was practical with GM2 there would be some good examples around. I say practical as in software development you can almost always find a way to get something done, like you said, but that doesn't mean it will always run acceptably or efficiently.

Anyway, if you know of any GM2 game examples let me know.
 
D

deciia

Guest
If you want use "depth=-y",Please search a post:“Depth Ordering in GMS2: Priority List, Nested List-Grid, Binary List”.
 
I appreciate your response but it's not very helpful. Based on my question it's evident I am asking about the software's capability, not that of the programmer. The reason I'm asking is I haven't seen any isometric examples although there may be some I haven't uncovered - which is why I'm asking. The 'Isometric Tiles and Knight' project I mentioned above was made for version 1.4 and the author isn't certain the conversion will run properly in GM2.

I would think if isometric game development was practical with GM2 there would be some good examples around. I say practical as in software development you can almost always find a way to get something done, like you said, but that doesn't mean it will always run acceptably or efficiently.

Anyway, if you know of any GM2 game examples let me know.
He answered your question. Yes, GM can make basically any 2D game you can imagine. So yes, it can do something as simple as isometric games, something that's been popular for like thirty years now, lol. Buy away! ;P
 
K

Konger

Guest
He answered your question. Yes, GM can make basically any 2D game you can imagine. So yes, it can do something as simple as isometric games, something that's been popular for like thirty years now, lol. Buy away! ;P
Hee hee RichHopelessComposer! Thanks! I love this forum, so helpful to new users. So, I do just want to create a 'simple' isometric game. You seem to have vast knowledge on these ancient concepts that have been popular for at least 30 years, please show me some of these simple isometric examples. Or maybe show me your advanced projects, I (honestly) would love some advice from a GM veteran.
 

Mick

Member
I would think if isometric game development was practical with GM2 there would be some good examples around. I say practical as in software development you can almost always find a way to get something done, like you said, but that doesn't mean it will always run acceptably or efficiently.
You can create an isometric game in GMS2, but you won't get any help from gms itself. I guess the reason why there are no good isometric examples around is because it's quite complicated to draw stuff in the isometric perspective in general.
 

JackTurbo

Member
Thanks! I love this forum, so helpful to new users.
You came to the community for help and by doing so you're asking its members to take time out of their schedules to answer your questions. Sarcastic replies like this are a great way to make people not want to bother. There is a huge wealth of experience and expertise available in this community and most are more than happy to help.

Anyway on to your actual topic.

I have a long term turn based strategy project on the go that is isometric. Game maker absolutely can make isometric games relatively easily. If what you want is a "make it isometric" button then you'll be disappointed however, as there is a fair bit of math involved.

Assuming your game is grid based, then you basically want to have all the data running on a normal 2d grid and being translated to isometric for rendering and input detection is then translated back to 2d.
Our very own mod YellowAfterLife has a great run down on how to approach it on his blog here: https://yal.cc/understanding-isometric-grids/

Alternatively Clint Bellanger has an article that is a great breakdown on how isomtric projection works:
http://clintbellanger.net/articles/isometric_math/
 
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Great links, @JackTurbo! Yellow made me laugh with his sick accidental burn, too:
Questions about the algorithms related to isometric grids are not uncommon. In fact, they are a little more common than you could expect them to be, given the relative simplicity of things.
Great way to open the article, hahah! X'D

Hee hee RichHopelessComposer! Thanks! I love this forum, so helpful to new users.
No problem, we try. ;D
Now that the question you originally made this thread for has been answered multiple times, along with Jack kindly going two steps above and beyond the original question, I sincerely hope you'll grab GMS and join us all in the wonderful world of making games. If you don't mind a lot of hard work, making your own games will be incredibly fun and rewarding to you. Welcome to the forums! :p

My super advanced (lol) project isn't available publicly yet because there's still a lot of work to be done on it, but I do post random snippets of it in my status updates if you're interested. Cheers. =)
 
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K

Konger

Guest
You can create an isometric game in GMS2, but you won't get any help from gms itself. I guess the reason why there are no good isometric examples around is because it's quite complicated to draw stuff in the isometric perspective in general.
Thanks Mick. That's helpful.
 
K

Konger

Guest
You came to the community for help and by doing so you're asking its members to take time out of their schedules to answer your questions. Sarcastic replies like this are a great way to make people not want to bother. There is a huge wealth of experience and expertise available in this community and most are more than happy to help.

Anyway on to your actual topic.

I have a long term turn based strategy project on the go that is isometric. Game maker absolutely can make isometric games relatively easily. If what you want is a "make it isometric" button then you'll be disappointed however, as there is a fair bit of math involved.

Assuming your game is grid based, then you basically want to have all the data running on a normal 2d grid and being translated to isometric for rendering and input detection is then translated back to 2d.
Our very own mod YellowAfterLife has a great run down on how to approach it on his blog here: https://yal.cc/understanding-isometric-grids/

Alternatively Clint Bellanger has an article that is a great breakdown on how isomtric projection works:
http://clintbellanger.net/articles/isometric_math/
Jack, this is the type of answer I wanted. I wasn't trying to be snarky but I felt the responses I received were snarky. Basically, it was 'it can probably do it, but the if you don't know how to, it probably will not.' Like I said, I have faith in my capabilities, so I just want to know if the software is 'able' to do something. As for my own (very humble) abilities, I am a programmer at a medical company. I currently develop in C#, .NET MVC, Sybase, MS SQL (schema design and development), jQuery, Angular, and other web-base technologies, and I also work on a desktop C# client/server app which does H7 patient reporting and billing. I have also worked in other programming and web-scripting languages like JAVA, PHP, CF, classic ASP, and Objective C (I made a few iOS games). I am not the best programmer by any stretch of the imagination, but I can almost always get things to work.

And I understand I am asking for free advice from the community, but I would think people would be more helpful and encouraging. As someone who has poked around in GM2 for the last few days let me offer what I feel would be a decent answer to this question.

"Yes, GM2 can create isometric games but it isn't specifically tuned for it. If you want examples, look at the Market Place (A good thing to mention to a new user. It may be obvious to veterans, but I just stumbled on it.), there are several examples of isometric games there, one being 'Isometric Tiles and Knight'. However, you need to have a license to load some Market Place projects (found this out after I purchased the previously mentioned project), so to actually see and use the code you will need to pony up for a license."

To me, this is a good response to my question (as well as your excellent answer). I will apologize to anyone I may have offended, it wasn't my intent to insult anyone.
 
K

Konger

Guest
Great links, @JackTurbo! Yellow made me laugh with his sick accidental burn, too:

Great way to open the article, hahah! X'D


No problem, we try. ;D
Now that the question you originally made this thread for has been answered multiple times, along with Jack kindly going two steps above and beyond the original question, I sincerely hope you'll grab GMS and join us all in the wonderful world of making games. If you don't mind a lot of hard work, making your own games will be incredibly fun and rewarding to you. Welcome to the forums! :p

My super advanced (lol) project isn't available publicly yet because there's still a lot of work to be done on it, but I do post random snippets of it in my status updates if you're interested. Cheers. =)
Cool man. Sorry if I came across poorly. I do appreciate your response.
 
K

Konger

Guest
To all, I apologize if I came across rudely. I do appreciate your responses and I have seen a few isometric examples in the Market Place. I'm purchasing GM2 and looking forward to working in it. Peace (I say that and I'm not even a hippy, dang!).
 

GMWolf

aka fel666
The market place should have som great examples, so its a good place to head to.

But one very important thing to consider: Build you game logic in flat 2d. Only draw and read inputs to/from an isometric perspective.
A pretty noobish mistake is to code the whole game in an isometric coordinate system, this will just make your life hard.

really all you need is your normal 2d game, with 2 scripts to transform from 2d to isometric coordiantes and vice versa. Then just convert your mouse inputs with it, and use them at draw.
 

JackTurbo

Member
No worries mate. We get an awful lot of "can GMS do ______" questions and almost always the answer is the same "yes but can you?". So if your initial question got a colder response than you were expecting then that is probably why.

Working isometrically in GMS isnt too hard, I'm an artist/designer first and a programmer a very distant second and I'm managing ok. I imagine with your programming background you probably wouldnt have any major troubles.

I would suggest that with your C# background it might be worth considering Unity as well. I've dabbled and made a few small games with it and its a very capable engine. It uses C# as its primary language. If you do consider this here is an interesting link for you: http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/Mart...trying_to_make_an_Isometric_game_in_Unity.php

Personally I found Unity more complex and slower to develop in which is why I returned to GMS. I imagine this is likely because I dont have any prior object orientated experience and was trying to learn c# as I went however.

Best of luck with you project.
 

Mick

Member
I'm purchasing GM2 and looking forward to working in it.
Good luck with your project. I have made a Tiled to binary converter that also supports isometric maps. Feel free to use that if you want, The example scripts might not work correctly in GMS2 (I haven't tested) but feel free to contact me if you decide to use it and find something not working. (The link is in my signature)
 
B

BlueSlime

Guest
I have faith in my capabilities, so I just want to know if the software is 'able' to do something. As for my own (very humble) abilities, I am a programmer at a medical company. I currently develop in C#, .NET MVC, Sybase, MS SQL (schema design and development), jQuery, Angular, and other web-base technologies, and I also work on a desktop C# client/server app which does H7 patient reporting and billing. I have also worked in other programming and web-scripting languages like JAVA, PHP, CF, classic ASP, and Objective C (I made a few iOS games). I am not the best programmer by any stretch of the imagination, but I can almost always get things to work.
Honestly, I would be hesitant to get into GM:S and spend the $400.00, and strongly consider Unity if I were you. You kind of sound like me a couple of years ago.

GM:S is very much black magic, (sometimes works but sometimes doesn't, you'll realize that when you compile for iOS ;)) I am kind of similar to you but fast forwarded a year or two. I also, have done 'real' coding professionally(for a job) in C++ like languages and if I wasn't already invested (bought the v1 MC for $800, a while ago and have now read 8 GM books so I'm familiar with GML, which is very easy for us because it is C like, btw), I would tell in a time machine, to past-me maybe consider learning C# and go the Unity route (it is about the same amount of $$ per year though). I have used Obj-C, C++, PHP, AS2, etc, etc but never learned C# but if you already know C# why not spend the same amount of money for a more professional engine?

Just my thoughts...
 
K

Konger

Guest
Honestly, I would be hesitant to get into GM:S and spend the $400.00, and strongly consider Unity if I were you. You kind of sound like me a couple of years ago.

GM:S is very much black magic, (sometimes works but sometimes doesn't, you'll realize that when you compile for iOS ;)) I am kind of similar to you but fast forwarded a year or two. I also, have done 'real' coding professionally(for a job) in C++ like languages and if I wasn't already invested (bought the v1 MC for $800, a while ago and have now read 8 GM books so I'm familiar with GML, which is very easy for us because it is C like, btw), I would tell in a time machine, to past-me maybe consider learning C# and go the Unity route (it is about the same amount of $$ per year though). I have used Obj-C, C++, PHP, AS2, etc, etc but never learned C# but if you already know C# why not spend the same amount of money for a more professional engine?

Just my thoughts...
That was the debate I was having Blue. After the advice I got here I was actually sold on buying GM2 but now you got me thinking about VS and Unity again. GM2 made it seem like it could get you up and running much quicker, but I figure Unity would be much more powerful. Considering Unity is free for personal use I may jump into it. That and the fact I use Visual Studio almost every day. But I will say when I looked at the GM tutorials they seemed to 'make sense' to me right off the bat. I'll probably test both with the same type of project goal and see what I think is the better fit.
 
P

psyke

Guest
If you need 3D features, go with Unity, otherwise give GMS 2 a chance.
You can try making something on both engines using the trial version before buying it.
 
E

Ephemeral

Guest
It varies, I assume, but the main thing that drew me to GMS2 over Unity is that GML is by far the most delightfully intuitive programming language I've ever seen. I tried to give Unity a fair shake, but it's much harder to learn from example, I found. I never had that "oh that's what they're getting at, I can do that" moment like I did within minutes of watching my first GMS tutorial.
 
B

BlueSlime

Guest
That was the debate I was having Blue. After the advice I got here I was actually sold on buying GM2 but now you got me thinking about VS and Unity again. GM2 made it seem like it could get you up and running much quicker, but I figure Unity would be much more powerful. Considering Unity is free for personal use I may jump into it. That and the fact I use Visual Studio almost every day. But I will say when I looked at the GM tutorials they seemed to 'make sense' to me right off the bat. I'll probably test both with the same type of project goal and see what I think is the better fit.

Well, like I said if you already know C# (which I don't yet) there are more options for you like Unity. Sorry, I didn't mean to completely discourage you on GM:S
Rereading my post I seemed maybe too harsh on GM though :oops: GM is very easy to use and I like that you can prototype really quickly in it so if you do go GM then good luck to you with that too! :D
 
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