Is Game maker 8 still relevant?

Discussion in 'Community Chat' started by The Kid Spot, Jan 17, 2018.

  1. The Kid Spot

    The Kid Spot Member

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    So i'm pretty sure this has been answered before but from what I've seen this was asked a few years back either when gms 2 was in beta or before it was even released. So i would like to know is game maker 8 still relevant now that gms 2 has been out for a while? I've heard that it was a great engine to use. Me being a beginner and all I dont want to use something that doesn't get any support for. Also every tutorial I find is over 5-6 years old. Also does anybody still uses that version? Sorry i'm asking so much just really interested in this since im trying to see if gm 8, gms 1x, or gms2 is the best choice. I'm not really into trying to release anything other than windows exes.
    Thank you for your time also.
     
  2. mimusic

    mimusic Member

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    If you're just making projects for the heck of it and don't care about being restricted to Windows only, GM8.1 works. While some functions and features come and go across versions, GML has remained the same at its core. If you start with GM8 and need to upgrade, your coding knowledge and abilities should translate. The ported code itself might need debugging, though.

    I would personally vouch for the newer versions if you plan on Game Maker becoming a primary IDE for you. The tutorials that exist for GM8 will still be around, but don't count on anybody making new ones. Also, you'll probably have a larger support pool with GMS1.4 and GMS2 since most people with expertise in the programs are likely using the newer versions.
     
  3. Lukan

    Lukan Gay Wizard Freak

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    GM8.1 is the best version of Classic to use, as it's the newest.
    However, there's at least one major flaw in 8.1.

    On Windows 8 & 8.1, if you play too many sounds(an arbitrary number as far as I can tell), the exe will crash fatally. This is an os issue that was remedied in Windows 10.
    This can be worked around by using a sound DLL instead of the default sound system. I suggest Caster by moacube, it's great.

    Other than that, the exes in general are always vm compiled, so any logic heavy game will run slower than in GMS+.
    You also miss out on newer feature like shaders and the like, however there's dlls for that too.

    For the most help, I'd check the old GMC, as that will have massive amounts of info for 8.1.
     
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  4. Binsk

    Binsk Member

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    That version of GameMaker is long dead and no longer relevant. I wouldn't bother using it or learning on it. If you are just dipping in then there is no reason not to start with GMS2.
     
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  5. JeffJ

    JeffJ Member

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    As someone who has just about everything (all the classic versions starting from GM5 all the way to GMS1 master collection and the GMS2 package) and use GMS1 but starting to seriously consider switching over to GMS2, I actually still fairly often use GM8. The reason being that because the format is contained within itself it's much, much faster, easier and less clumsy to just quickly start up a new file to test / prototype something. In GMS1 and GMS2 you need to have or make an entire project folder (which you will have to remember to delete again if you don't want clutter - something I can be very bad at) GM8 starts up much, much faster. When I just want to quickly test something, the process from launching the program to writing code takes me 3-5 times longer in GMS1 and GMS2 than in GM8 and below. So TLDR; it's convenient.

    GM8 and below also has some objective advantages over the newer versions, such as not being sandboxed, being able to run code on the go (although this comes with lesser performance), and functions like adding objects at runtime. Depending on what you're doing, these functions can be nearly impossible to live without - just check the guy on here who's making a fake OS. He's using GM8 because of things like this.

    Now, that being said, in my personal opinion, GMS1 and GMS2 are of course vastly superior in just about every other aspect - features and performance especially. I don't know how I ever aspired to do anything incredible without basic tools like shaders for example, the new audio engine is miles better than the old one, physics are really nice to have depending on what you're doing, the networking functionality is incredible compared to the old one... Oh, and just the workflow; when I do start up GM8 I very quickly get annoyed at little things I take for granted in GMS1, like being able to freely click around from code editor to code editor. Just as an example.

    Also, a quick look at the room editor and the sprite editor from GMS2 will absolutely devastate anything older in the GM lineage.

    But like @Lukan already pointed out, most of this (except editors and workflow related issues) there are DLLs and workarounds for. However, for me, the absolute biggest reasons to use GMS1 and GMS2 as my "daily driver" beyond all the reasons above is continued support (official and unofficial alike), much better performance, an ever expanding array of tools (you won't get new features in GM8 or even GMS1) and of course, multiple platform targets.

    But to answer your original question: yes, even with all the love I just sprouted over how much better everything post-GM8 is, I still find GM8 very relevant, and my everyday workflow would be worse without it.
     
  6. Micah_DS

    Micah_DS Member

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    Those are literally the only reasons I'd ever recommend working in GM8. Nicely put.

    Ultimately, I'd say hop in with GMS2. It's so much more efficient in so many ways, with a lot of great features. With GM8, no shader support, more possible driver issues with current computers, you'll likely be held back with audio, no buffers, no bitwise operations (FALSE; late edit, but better late than never), no YYC, much less optimized tiling system and the same goes for collisions, no texture page management, way less useful debugging tools, etc. etc. There's a lot more things I could list, but too tired. My day was pretty draining. :confused:zzz..
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
  7. GMWolf

    GMWolf aka fel666

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    I find it hard to go back to studio 1.x, let alone GM8...

    The new tile system is something I cannot live without, and array accessors (not available in GM8) are a total game changer!
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2018
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  8. BiTrunade

    BiTrunade Member

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    GameMaker 8 is awesome, I am still using it, but GMS is way superior than legacy GM versions. Just like what @Fel666 said, it got features you cannot live without.
     
  9. Azure Knight

    Azure Knight Member

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    GM8 is still a decent tool to use if you are looking forward to learning the language, but I recommend getting GMS2 if you want to do more with Game Maker. Mainly because there are some tutorials on YouTube that do things in GMS2 that you would have to write differently in GM8

    for example:
    // This code will not work in GM8
    var legacy = "redacted";
    var version = "gm8";

    This is just one example, but there are many more that can be found.
     
  10. BG Games

    BG Games Member

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    I, like many, continue to use gm 8.1, but keep in mind that when you switch to gms2, you will need to retrain because the script call is measured, the lack of some functions, the lack of depth for objects, the order of events in the object, many different life-simplifying functions for the developer, and innovations and the most important export to mobile platforms which is in itself a separate topic both in terms of design and coding.

    While your game will slowly work due to complicated calculations in STEP, you will waste your time and optimize the code, which can reduce its readability and usability of the whole program, while working with gms2 would not have this problem as the speed of work is higher.
    Tip: if you can, then purchase gms2
     
  11. FrostyCat

    FrostyCat Member

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    That's something a little system-level scripting could fix.
    You've included one item too many. Bitwise operations have been in GML for much longer than GM8 has been around.

    What does the difference between GM 8 and GMS 2.x have to do with this part? People have been overstocking the Step event with code since around the GM 6 timeframe, and it's just refusal to delegate. It's an unwelcome community trend, not a innate shortcoming with either version of GM.
     
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  12. JeffJ

    JeffJ Member

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  13. BG Games

    BG Games Member

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    The difference, in my opinion, is that gms2 is more optimized for standard functions, modern compilation methods are used, and so on. Just check, all this will show. There is no doubt that the majority of fps is accepted by the draw event, the gm8 drawing optimization is not to draw objects outside the view, rather than use the draw event to draw an object, use tiles and surfaces for the interface. In general, let's say you need to find all the objects in the radius and select the closest one, in gms there is a collision_circle_list function that finds all instances in a circle and sorts them by distance, on gm8 it should be implemented by hand written functions are slower than standard gml functions. In addition, gms2 is written to c #, gm8 to delphi. It may also affect.

    Example:
    Break the conditions combined by the logical operator && (and) into several successive conditions.
    Code:
    if a> b && b> c {} // before optimization
    if a> b {if b> c {}} // after optimization
    // - both entries are identical in terms of their result
    
    Why it works: at the first recording, the program checks all conditions in any case. The second entry reduces the number of tested conditions - all conditions are not always checked, but at least one.
    Actual: for GM8.1 and below, and older versions of GMS. In the new versions of GMS there is no difference due to Short-Circuit, an option in Global Game Settings - General.
    Growth: occurs in certain situations and depends on the complexity of the conditions

    SWITCH runs on gm8.1 faster by 20% than the set of if / else. For GMS, the fps increase is about 5%.
    From all this, it is clear that the GMS is initially faster, even if you neglect all this
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2018
  14. Micah_DS

    Micah_DS Member

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    It's been a while since I posted that, but IIRC, I had checked the manual in GM8 and found no mention of them, which is why I said that. I had no idea I could use those until some GMS1 article on YYG talked about them. Sorry for the misinformation.
     
  15. FrostyCat

    FrostyCat Member

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    Then you didn't check your Manual properly. In the GM8 manual, typing "bitwise operators" in the Index tab reveals an exact result.
     
  16. Samuel Venable

    Samuel Venable Time Killer

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    lol this guy
     
  17. Micah_DS

    Micah_DS Member

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    I guess I didn't word my last post well, so I understand your response, but I kinda figured out that I didn't check it properly after your last post, but thank you for letting me know doubly so. ;)
     
  18. Misty

    Misty Member

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    GM8 allows script to variable conversions, therefore is superior because you can modify programs on the fly.
     
  19. Yal

    Yal Member GMC Elder

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    Might also be worth pointing out that GMS2 is the only of the aforementioned engines you can legally obtain full access to, since you can't get the full version of GM8 or GMS1 anywhere anymore.
     
  20. cgPixel

    cgPixel Member

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    If you don't want that your game is de facto open source (Decompiler), you have to use GMS, no questions about it.
     
  21. 00.Archer

    00.Archer Member

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    I believe it is. It's much quicker to get it up and running to prototype stuff than GMS1.4. For amateur game development, it's more than powerful enough.
    I still use it from time to time.
     
  22. Joe Ellis

    Joe Ellis Member

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    You can technically make an amazing game with gm8, I wouldnt say that gms2 or 1.4 is better for that,
    What's most important is what your comfortable with and works with what you're doing, you can try the others out, and see how they work and whether you like them better or not
    There are certain graphical or technical things that the newer versions can do which the older ones can't, but it depends whether you need them or not
     
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  23. Carnivius

    Carnivius Member

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    Nah. I'm far too used to things like shaders and actually being able to cut/copy/paste tiles in the room editor to ever want to back to GM8 again. :p
    I do miss how quick the program used to load up and be ready to use but it's not enough to make up for all the new handy stuff GMStudio added.
     
  24. Jordanb

    Jordanb Member

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    I'd recommend using a newer version for compatibility with modern Windows BUT 8.1 sure did load projects faster.
     
  25. Crozza

    Crozza Member

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    I'm still using gm5/ 7/8 and 8.1 because don't need fancy shaders and stuff for making retro style games, and I don't want to twiddle my fingers while awaiting the compiler in studio to do its thing. I have studio 1.4 only used once and wont upgrade as studio 2 is now way out of my price range these days.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
  26. TheouAegis

    TheouAegis Member

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    GM8 had proper GIF handling with the sprite_add function(), but I've moved on to GMS1 and coped. I use GM8 for quick mockups still just because it's all I have on my laptop.
     
  27. iBlackpen

    iBlackpen Member

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    I enjoy the sprite editing in the old versions of GM. I make my sprites through other programs now, so transitioning to GM2 wasn't hard. If you are just starting out, just skip the old GM versions.
     
  28. Andy

    Andy Member

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    GM8 still works fine, many of the basic principles continue to apply. For example, if you understand rooms in GMS you can understand rooms in GM8.
    But there are some differences, and GM8 no longer has officially support. The base of users who can help with GM8 specific problems will dwindle.
    If you enjoy using GM8 there's nothing wrong with keeping the program alive. But I don’t consider it a relevant choice anymore (especially for new users).
     
  29. Tofu Heavy Industries

    Tofu Heavy Industries Member

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    I think so. Its so easy to just pop open and use. Also, as I get more and more into game programming, I'm trying to use less GM Lib functions, so that my code will be easily portable to other languages. (And im not just stuck with using GM). Some things (not all) can be done in GM8, you just actually have to code the hell out of them.

    Also, Im not too hot in the direction GMS is going. GM8 requires no online connectivity, whereas GMS 1.4 requires a connection to install, and GMS said it wants to periodically 'check in' with yoyogames to verify my copy is legit...what if im travelling without steady internet? Could I go to open it one day and have GMS2 refuse to start because of no-online connectivity?

    Coding a game in C++ will give you great, employable C++ (in a wide range of programs) skills, whereas doing so in GML will not offer the same employment opportunities.
     
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  30. FrostyCat

    FrostyCat Member

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    This is a false comparison. Though I agree that GMS's direction towards not supporting offline use is questionable, using 8.1 as the gold standard is just misguided.

    The last version of GM that doesn't require online connectivity to install and register is 6.1, not 8.1. In my experience, 8.1.141 absolutely requires online connectivity to keep its license alive, just not as often. I've had my 8.1 license expire several times over the past few years after stints of not using it. And if YoYo changes or moves their licensing servers a few more times, there could come a day when 8.1 becomes impossible to activate legitimately.
     
  31. JackTurbo

    JackTurbo Member

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    My Dev machine was offline for nearly six months and 1.4 never stopped working. Gms2 however seems to need to call home much more frequently, monthly perhaps?
     
  32. Tofu Heavy Industries

    Tofu Heavy Industries Member

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    Nowhere in my post did I state anything remotely close to GM 8.1 being a gold standard for anything.

    Although I never did have 8.1 or priors' license, so I was unaware that they required online connectivity.
     
  33. Gandija

    Gandija Member

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    I love using gm8. 1. It allows me to import external ressources and I think it's important for something like a 3d game without having to wait forever for the game to load.
    This sounds unfriendly but it's never too late to regret some decisions.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
  34. Dog Slobber

    Dog Slobber Member

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    You specifically said it didn't require online connectivity.

     
  35. Tofu Heavy Industries

    Tofu Heavy Industries Member

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    You read that correctly..... I was wrong about it requiring online connectivity.
     

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