L
Lonewolff
Guest
Robbers generally don't carry guns where I am from.
Most of the time they are desperate or opportunistic teanagers.
Most of the time they are desperate or opportunistic teanagers.
Would love to see data on these claims. Especially from nonpartisan sources (ie no NRA or anti-gun lobbies)But anyway if you get rid of guns we will have an increase in other violences
Only in 'Murica.But anyway if you get rid of guns we will have an increase in other violences, mass stabbings happen, obviously guns are superior for virtually any attempt to cause mass harm.
Yes, it's not the poor tool of death's fault, it never meant no harm.Honestly, it's never the weapons' fault that there's violence. Humans killed each other since the beginning and will continue to kill each other until the end of time.
Umm... No. Let's look at Australia once again:But anyway if you get rid of guns we will have an increase in other violences
"other violences" aka non-gun relatedUmm... No. Let's look at Australia once again:
- While 13 gun massacres (the killing of 4 or more people at one time) occurred in Australia in the 18 years before the NFA, resulting in more than one hundred deaths, in the 14 following years (and up to the present), there were no gun massacres.
- In the seven years before the NFA (1989-1995), the average annual firearm suicide death rate per 100,000 was 2.6 (with a yearly range of 2.2 to 2.9); in the seven years after the buyback was fully implemented (1998-2004), the average annual firearm suicide rate was 1.1 (yearly range 0.8 to 1.4).
- In the seven years before the NFA, the average annual firearm homicide rate per 100,000 was .43 (range .27 to .60) while for the seven years post NFA, the average annual firearm homicide rate was .25 (range .16 to .33).
- The drop in firearm deaths was largest among the type of firearms most affected by the buyback.
Source: https://cdn1.sph.harvard.edu/wp-con...4/2012/10/bulletins_australia_spring_2011.pdf
As for Crime Rates in Australia (and in the US, believe it or not) these have steadily fallen over the last decade, proving that removing guns does NOT increase violent crime. Let me just repeat what I've been saying throughout this topic... Removing guns is NOT ABOUT REDUCING CRIME. It's about reducing the number of people that DIE FROM GUNS. Less guns means less people die, it's that simple.
Oh, and if you look at the most PEACEFUL countries in the world, you won't find the US (but you will find a number of countries with strict gun control laws ), but curiously enough the US does feature in a list of the most VIOLENT cities in the world. Funny that. Nothing to do with guns, of course.
"other violences" aka non-gun related
As for Crime Rates in Australia (and in the US, believe it or not) these have steadily fallen over the last decade, proving that removing guns does NOT increase violent crime.
First person: "Guns don't kill people! People kill people."Honestly, it's never the weapons' fault that there's violence. Humans killed each other since the beginning and will continue to kill each other until the end of time.
This is a human issue, therefore the solution lies on the human level.
Doesn't happen."other violences" aka non-gun related
Im curious about the demographics of those countries when compared to our own. Obviously guns are a powerful tool to cause harm, they invoke fear and give power this is why most violence to committed to show power and to make a personal gain however unrealistic the ideology is behind it.Umm... No. Let's look at Australia once again:
- While 13 gun massacres (the killing of 4 or more people at one time) occurred in Australia in the 18 years before the NFA, resulting in more than one hundred deaths, in the 14 following years (and up to the present), there were no gun massacres.
- In the seven years before the NFA (1989-1995), the average annual firearm suicide death rate per 100,000 was 2.6 (with a yearly range of 2.2 to 2.9); in the seven years after the buyback was fully implemented (1998-2004), the average annual firearm suicide rate was 1.1 (yearly range 0.8 to 1.4).
- In the seven years before the NFA, the average annual firearm homicide rate per 100,000 was .43 (range .27 to .60) while for the seven years post NFA, the average annual firearm homicide rate was .25 (range .16 to .33).
- The drop in firearm deaths was largest among the type of firearms most affected by the buyback.
Source: https://cdn1.sph.harvard.edu/wp-con...4/2012/10/bulletins_australia_spring_2011.pdf
As for Crime Rates in Australia (and in the US, believe it or not) these have steadily fallen over the last decade, proving that removing guns does NOT increase violent crime. Let me just repeat what I've been saying throughout this topic... Removing guns is NOT ABOUT REDUCING CRIME. It's about reducing the number of people that DIE FROM GUNS. Less guns means less people die, it's that simple.
Oh, and if you look at the most PEACEFUL countries in the world, you won't find the US (but you will find a number of countries with strict gun control laws ), but curiously enough the US does feature in a list of the most VIOLENT cities in the world. Funny that. Nothing to do with guns, of course.
Which part of this don't you understand?That statement does not conclude that other violences do increase, it just concludes that violences as a whole decreases because gun violence is removed.
Let me just repeat what I've been saying throughout this topic... Removing guns is NOT ABOUT REDUCING CRIME. It's about reducing the number of people that DIE FROM GUNS. Less guns means less people die, it's that simple.
I respect your opening opinion there. And while I can't speak for anyone else I personally don't hold the opinion that gun-rights advocates are usually "gun toting gangsters." I also agree with you in that we shouldn't ignore things like heart disease, strokes, and the rest you stated. Mass murder with guns has been very recent however and I think it's irresponsible to just brush the topic aside in favor of other arguably more righteous endeavors.I personally own four guns, one of them being a handgun. I enjoy going to the range and shooting some targets at the end of a long day. I don't hunt, never cared for it. I don't care for the NRA, and I don't need their support. I don't support mass killings with a gun or without. In my 39 years, I have never pointed my gun at anyone, and I have never shot anyone. I, like most Americans, just tend to mind my own business. Many Americans with guns, simply like them. We like to fire them, collect them, etc. We're not all just gun toting gangsters. I don't mean to imply that any of you said we were, but at times, it seems like the perception of the people we share the world with. I do agree, gun control needs to be stricter by the way. Not all Americans are like me, and I understand this. Some have evil intent, but I simply do not believe it to be the majority, there are over 320 million of us.
I'd love to see discussions about coming up with ways to solve the main causes of death, not only within my own country, but within the world as a whole. America is but a fraction. Some of the top leading causes of death in the world, have nothing to do with guns. Heart disease, strokes, cancer, and diabetes are just a few of the major causes that claim millions of people a year. While I'm sure those discussions are indeed happening somewhere, they just don't seem as important as whether or not there are too many guns in America. And look, I don't state that based entirely just on this discussion, I've seen or heard it many times elsewhere. I believe we all tend to meddle, point fingers, but we also all tend to be blind towards greater issues.
My cousin killed his sister while he was cleaning his gun.You know, I really can't wrap my head around this attitude of "oh, I like guns just for shooting... they're harmless etc... as I'm a good person".
I have never heard of someone murdering someone else with heart disease.Some of the top leading causes of death in the world, have nothing to do with guns. Heart disease, strokes, cancer, and diabetes are just a few of the major causes that claim millions of people a year.
I hear of this type of thing all too often unfortunately.My cousin killed his sister while he was cleaning his gun.
Unfortunately... And unfortunately it is not the only accident that happened. My relative's son also killed his sister when he was playing with his dad's gun. Someone I know killed his son while he was cleaning his gun.I hear of this type of thing all too often unfortunately.
My cousin killed his sister while he was cleaning his gun.
I'd click the "like" button on these posts but I don't think that adequately conveys how heartbreaking I find these stories... you have my support and eternal sympathyUnfortunately... And unfortunately it is not the only accident that happened. My relative's son also killed his sister when he was playing with his dad's gun. Someone I know killed his son while he was cleaning his gun.
Thanks so much for your support. It is heartbreaking not only because their loved ones died... but because they killed their loved ones, even till this day, they had never forgiven themselves.I'd click the "like" button on these posts but I don't think that adequately conveys how heartbreaking I find these stories... you have my support and eternal sympathy
Of all the developed nations, by far the USA has the most "freedom" with regard to gun laws. If your post had any merrit, than the USA should be the safest country in the world because because it easily has the most guns per capita of the developed nations.Honestly if you are living in a region or state/country where the criminal rate is very high and the law is inadequate and the police is helpless things look much different. Although there are people that were never victims even in such situations. Also people that are victims but still are thinking this way. Removing guns means human life costs 0. Someone was killed - well he can not complain. It is not a big problem for the society. 10 years prison. Or less.
Let someone answer that: you are attacked by few dogs on the street and they want to kill you. You dont have any gun. What you gonna do?
Criminals entering your home. What you gonna do? Beat them? They are strong, armed with knifes and at least 2.
"Security guards", actually private criminal army on the road. They stop infront of your car, pull you out and start beating you to death, also your pregnant wife. They are armed with cold and fire weapons (legal or illegal).
" Guns make killing easy and I find it utter madness to think that having one (or more!) in your house is a "good thing". Definitely it is not good. Being killed or raped is much, much better.
Such "events" are real and happens everyday. Just dont tell me you will call the police. They will come after 2 hours. The society doesnt care because it is hypocritical.
In the past all free men had guns. Nowadays guns are restricted (because people became freaks?) only because the authorities want the monopoly for the power. This should be the free world - were a man was sentenced for 2 rape on 12 years old and 14 years old, 2 killings, 98 robbery, etc, kills again and get 8 years but gets out after 6...
But the highest achievement off the rulers is not the removing guns from people, it is that they made people believe guns are bad thing and they dont need them. Well not all people. Only the plebs. I remember during the socialism guns here was (and still is) a dirty word (sure for some comrades not). Having interest in guns means you are a faschist, hitlerists, etc. What was the surprise after 1989 when it become clear that our country produced weapons in large numbers and exported them for decades?! And that formed a great % in our national income?! So when I hear about restricting of guns I see the same thing it is only a propaganda and a hypocrisy.
Format your post with proper paragraphs, then I'll read it. I doubt I'm not the only one who refuses to read walls of text.I dont trust statistics too much. especially from what is here - people are just not calling the police, or ...
Maybe the reason of the violence in USA is not the most significant criteria? For example in my country before the Red army came and installed the socialism everyone could have a rifle (military) or handgun and that was something usual and people in most villages and small cities never locked their doors and even in cities put the keys under the door mat. Now guns are accessible for some very special people and the rate of crimes is very high - not talking about the statistics which are manipulated but it is visible.
For such a big country as USA maybe you should compare states inside - but I think the size is important because that makes the criminals more mobile and invisible. Or maybe the reasons are different - a lot of unknown people in many big cities totally indifferent to each other? We could add also Mexico, Latin America - all of them ex colonies? Most of them with strict gun control (no guns). Why do you relay on guns only? Here in smaller cities you can receive much more help, people are known to each other but there is also a bad side.
My compatriots living in USA are impressed by the order there? And for many of them USA is a calm place where they can live happy. It depends from where you came maybe.
It is good when people are good. In some developed countries you may never encounter a violence. But that does not change the thing. When I was a child here was a safe place too, well relatively... And now the mafia is ruling everywhere. You have a business they come and say Get out of here - and that is. A real case. And that is not in the statistics. And it happens again and again and people are leaving the country.
A real case - at late night at a taxi. The bill is 1,70 and the clients requires its change. The taxi driver pulls out a knife and start insulting the client. The client informed the police and they answered: Why do you not respect the night labor of taxi drivers? Blahahaha. Most taxi drivers here are extremely aggressive, some off them are criminals, recently one beat a police officer in the center of the city, love to beat clients. Another case is in similar scenario but the client had a gun and pointed it to the driver and the driver became a lamb "no problems, no problems". I dont say that is the right way but I had many cases when I was happy I can get away from the taxi. If you can relay on the authorities what can you do?
And right to the question. If we have gun laws like in USA that will mean that citizens will get guns, not that the crimes will get gun - because they already have. Once a woman got a pickpocket in the center of the city, a young girl, and slapped her but she had a protectors, 2 guards, that beat the woman almost to death. People were watching. That happens everyday. People in villages are living in constant terror so they sell their lands and leave. And somebody is buying these useless (for now) lands. Having guns will make that different. You see what is the connection? It is not the logic of what people want but of what is useful for these that dictate the rules. Organizes groups of strong man armed with stick, knives, axes or no weapons could always prevail. They dont need firearms but they need than other dont have firearms. You can compare that to a student who shot his classmates but I thing the victims are not only from such massacres. And they always happen against people who can not protect themselves. Or between criminal bands (as here that happens also). That never happened here in the recent decades - does it make a better place? But compare that with victims killed by knives. When ALL people have guns, not only the victim, but all, chances are not 99% to 1 for bandits. And people start being polite.
"Robbers generally don't carry guns where I am from." But here they carry knives. But they can just beat you to death. This makes them brave. Once they met a weapon start running as rabbits. This usually does not happen because houses with armed men are outside of their interest. And sometimes happen - they try to kill the victim and get shot or stubbed and then the victim goes to the prison. So it is clear why the law is such. Many people are victims of criminal acts. I doubt that USA has relatively higher score. Again do not rely on statistics because not every case is in them.
Did I mention the professor who escaped during the Cold war and made career on Wallstreet? His daughter is living in Germany. When he became older he came back to help to his country and start teaching in the American University here. Once he or his daughter was bitten by a dog, she left the country and said she will never came back here. Later the professor was attacked by dogs and killed. They even eat one of his eyes while he was alive. It was a painful death absolutely undeserved. The police made an investigation but people around start hiding the dogs. That is in the capital not somewhere in the nowhere. I got a luck few times, once in the center going to the Science academy and saw 3 big dogs watching me. It was too late to run so I decide I will just pass... One of them jumped on my back but I covered myself with a bag and jumped towards the dog. It stepped back a bit and prepared to jump again, also did the others. I would be dead minute later but from somewhere appeared a grandma (funny but) who knew them and they knew her - there are such idiots feeding aggressive street dogs - and start crying so they left me. That was so close. Sprey doesnt help. And that is a big problem here. Nothing changed for decades. I prefer to walk free and calm and that can not happen so I dont go where I can get with my car or close to the city transport. The same with the parks but there are also criminals not only dogs.
Then you've never experienced my mother's cooking.I have never heard of someone murdering someone else with heart disease.
Where does this sh!t happen?Honestly if you are living in a region or state/country where the criminal rate is very high and the law is inadequate and the police is helpless things look much different. Although there are people that were never victims even in such situations. Also people that are victims but still are thinking this way. Removing guns means human life costs 0. Someone was killed - well he can not complain. It is not a big problem for the society. 10 years prison. Or less.
Let someone answer that: you are attacked by few dogs on the street and they want to kill you. You dont have any gun. What you gonna do?
Criminals entering your home. What you gonna do? Beat them? They are strong, armed with knifes and at least 2.
"Security guards", actually private criminal army on the road. They stop infront of your car, pull you out and start beating you to death, also your pregnant wife. They are armed with cold and fire weapons (legal or illegal).
" Guns make killing easy and I find it utter madness to think that having one (or more!) in your house is a "good thing". Definitely it is not good. Being killed or raped is much, much better.
Such "events" are real and happens everyday. Just dont tell me you will call the police. They will come after 2 hours. The society doesnt care because it is hypocritical.
In the past all free men had guns. Nowadays guns are restricted (because people became freaks?) only because the authorities want the monopoly for the power. This should be the free world - were a man was sentenced for 2 rape on 12 years old and 14 years old, 2 killings, 98 robbery, etc, kills again and get 8 years but gets out after 6...
But the highest achievement off the rulers is not the removing guns from people, it is that they made people believe guns are bad thing and they dont need them. Well not all people. Only the plebs. I remember during the socialism guns here was (and still is) a dirty word (sure for some comrades not). Having interest in guns means you are a faschist, hitlerists, etc. What was the surprise after 1989 when it become clear that our country produced weapons in large numbers and exported them for decades?! And that formed a great % in our national income?! So when I hear about restricting of guns I see the same thing it is only a propaganda and a hypocrisy.
If far fewer people had guns, then maybe others wouldn't feel so compelled to pull the trigger. This includes your police forces.Honestly if you are living in a region or state/country where the criminal rate is very high and the law is inadequate and the police is helpless things look much different. Although there are people that were never victims even in such situations. Also people that are victims but still are thinking this way. Removing guns means human life costs 0.
Shooting at a pack of dogs sounds like a recipe for disaster. Fortunately there are options that do not require pulling a gun. Also, for the past lifetime I've never met a pack of dogs with a plan to assassinate me.Let someone answer that: you are attacked by few dogs on the street and they want to kill you. You dont have any gun. What you gonna do?
I'm going to make a comment about their incorrect plural of the word "knife". Then I'll let them rob the place, I have no wish to put my family or myself in danger for the sake of a bit of money or a few belongings. I certainly don't want to murder anyone for it.Criminals entering your home. What you gonna do? Beat them? They are strong, armed with knifes and at least 2.
Then I wake up from my Death Wish nightmare and promise myself I watch something more friendly before I go to bed next time. Seriously, dude."Security guards", actually private criminal army on the road. They stop infront of your car, pull you out and start beating you to death, also your pregnant wife. They are armed with cold and fire weapons (legal or illegal).
A free world is one where you don't have to carry around a gun just because your continuous self-flagellation with hyper violent fantasies makes you too afraid to walk the street without one.In the past all free men had guns. Nowadays guns are restricted (because people became freaks?) only because the authorities want the monopoly for the power. This should be the free world
I apologize. I wasn't attempting to brush it aside, I agree we need to be stricter here. It's hard to rank any sort of loss of life. While I listed some of the major causes of death, that doesn't make any other forms of death irrelevant to me, I assure you.Mass murder with guns has been very recent however and I think it's irresponsible to just brush the topic aside in favor of other arguably more righteous endeavors.
I can see where it is hard to understand. I feel the same way about things that other people like or do. I understand what guns were intended for, but that doesn't mean I have to use it for that intended purpose. I simply like shooting guns, and there is nothing more to it. My daughter is about the same way, but she's into archery. They have competitions, and I love watching her get better and better, it's truly a good time. As you said, both weapons can kill, but we just don't have the desire to use them in such ways ourselves. There are over 300 million guns in the US, and about 320 million people. The math behind gun violence in relation to those numbers, shows that I'm not just an exception to the rule either, otherwise the gun violence rate would be astronomical. I also don't have the mindset that guns are harmless. They are extremely dangerous, especially if proper care isn't taken, and that lack of proper care contributes to many accidental deaths.You know, I really can't wrap my head around this attitude of "oh, I like guns just for shooting... they're harmless etc... as I'm a good person".
Me either, but I know where you're trying to go with that. If we are simply talking murder rates by guns, the US doesn't even make the top 25 last time I looked, we might be 30th or so. With a little research, you'll find that homicides commited with guns, is a far greater problem in many other countries. El Salvador, Venezuela, Guatemala, Colombia, and Honduras for example, all have rates 4-5 times higher than the US. So "Only in Murica", is not entirely factual. However, of all the murders that took place in the US, 60% or more of them were done with guns. That is indeed a high percentage, which is exactly why I said we need to be stricter. We need something, I won't disagree with any of you there. What that should entail, I don't actually know, and I can't presume to.I have never heard of someone murdering someone else with heart disease.
I'm sorry for your family's loss, I'm hate to hear these sort of things.My cousin killed his sister while he was cleaning his gun.
Haha, for such a topic, this was a gem to readThen you've never experienced my mother's cooking.
US homicide rates were 7.0 times higher than in other high-income countries, driven by a gun homicide rate that was 25.2 times higher. For 15- to 24-year-olds, the gun homicide rate in the United States was 49.0 times higher. Firearm-related suicide rates were 8.0 times higher in the United States, but the overall suicide rates were average. Unintentional firearm deaths were 6.2 times higher in the United States. The overall firearm death rate in the United States from all causes was 10.0 times higher. Ninety percent of women, 91% of children aged 0 to 14 years, 92% of youth aged 15 to 24 years, and 82% of all people killed by firearms were from the United States.
The United States has an enormous firearm problem compared with other high-income countries, with higher rates of homicide and firearm-related suicide.
Bummer, you should go and buy a gun then.DIFFERENCE is that I'm not able to kill people in real life with video games, though.
Get out of here, Russian spy. We all see your posts for the elaborate false flag operation they are!I wonder what spurred this discussion. Was it the current string of fabricated news stories?
Remember folks, the world is a stage.
"World events do not occur by accident. They are made to happen, whether it is to do with national issues or commerce; and most of them are staged and managed by those who hold the purse strings." Denis Healey, former Defence Secretary
Self-proclaimed smarty pants and/or ghosts need not reply.
Can you send me one from the Aussie stockpile?Bummer, you should go and buy a gun then.
No stockpile here. They were all destroyed in the gun amnesty in 1997 - 98.Can you send me one from the Aussie stockpile?
Ha, you wish.Self-proclaimed smarty pants and/or ghosts need not reply.
"Incompetence is a better explanation than conspiracy in most human activity." -- Peter Bergen, journalist, professor, documentary film maker, and national security analyst for CNN.I wonder what spurred this discussion. Was it the current string of fabricated news stories?
Remember folks, the world is a stage.
"World events do not occur by accident. They are made to happen, whether it is to do with national issues or commerce; and most of them are staged and managed by those who hold the purse strings." Denis Healey, former Defence Secretary
Love Falcon's random posts. They are what keep me coming back to the GMC.Mafia = organised crime
Get rid of the mafia = 50% less gun violence at the minimum
Ha! Speak for yourself.So we’re both trolls on the gmc in a way?
You can't even post in a gun control without somehow mentioning you won't use Gamemaker anymore or you won't mention any other products.So we’re both trolls on the gmc in a way?, ‘ even though I have kissed game maker studio’s sorry ass good bye, I will respect the product though by not advertising other products in the gmc ever again, except through conversations in personal messages. ‘