Ideas to STOP gun violence...

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by K12gamer, Feb 23, 2018.

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  1. jef

    jef Member

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    Concealed carry is the trademark of a US citizen. The people have chosen Donald Trump for a reason. And not because he is rich but for what he stands for. Freedom of guns of choice including semi or full auto.

    Check your facts first.

    According to CDC reports: More people die with vaccines then with bullets.
    Question: Why not ban vaccines before we think about guns?
    Yet you think guns should be banned, while you infect your children with inactivated cancer, HIV and polio cells which can trigger at any time and mutate into a virus which is 10 times more stronger then the wild virus itself.

    Facts: The CDC reports show vaccines are the major cause of paralysis, cancer, HIV, and all the other non curable viruses. In the US last year people received millions of compensation who caught vaccine derived viruses. While in countries like UK and Australia people burry their loved ones after they have died with vaccine induced poisen and never sue the pharmacy industry.

    Where is the gunshot or murder on the list?
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
  2. Ghost in the IDE

    Ghost in the IDE Member

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    In 2013, there were 73,505 nonfatal firearm injuries and 33,636 deaths due to "injury by firearms".

    That's 107,000 preventable incidences.

    Sure, vaccines might have significant problems (but that is another issue yet again). Though, I am yet to see a member of the general public vaccinate someone to death on the street.

    That would be an interesting murder trial.

    "Man jailed for mass vaccinations at local airport"


    I think you'll find the last item on your list will encompass that.


    The biggest killer on your list is 'Heart Disease'.

    ^^ That isn't murder or vaccinations. That is largely lifestyle and age. And those figures aren't even talking about death. That is just 'first heart attack'. So that pushes the average age higher. Which is nearing the life expectancy of human beings.

    35% of people in the U.S. are obese. That is no ones fault but your own.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
  3. Dog Slobber

    Dog Slobber Member

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    I would love to check my facts, could you please provide links to the CDC Reports that support your claims.
     
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  4. Guest User

    Guest User Guest

    ehhh i guess (some) people aren't aware of this since that same list keeps coming up but...

    we actually have spent billions of dollars and decades of research towards "banning" heart disease, cancer, alzheimer's, chronic respiratory disease, etc. from existence.
    that list is much shorter nowadays than it was 200, 100, or even 50 years ago with the polio vaccine, penicillin, chicken pox vaccine, etc. being discovered and removing some of the big contenders from it.

    so rest assured, the numbers on that list will go down and some might disappear entirely as time goes on.
     
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  5. Ghost in the IDE

    Ghost in the IDE Member

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    Still struggling to understand how heart disease keeps being compared with gun violence.

    Seems people are clutching at straws to try and justify murdering someone.
     
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  6. Nocturne

    Nocturne Friendly Tyrant Forum Staff Admin

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    LOL! Maybe you should check your facts first before making blatantly false comments? ;)

    CDC Report that is quoted when referring to the statement about "more people die from vaccines than bullets" so you can "check your facts": https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23903595

    And an article to help your "fact checking": https://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/vaccine-statistics-scare-tactics-bad-math/

    And here's a little afterthought (also from the CDC, which - since you put so much faith in their reports - you should take as 100% fact too, no?) about why you should vaccinate: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/whatifstop.htm

    Not sure what any of this has to do with Gun Control however...
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
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  7. JML

    JML Wabbajackalope

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    gun violence is just a smaller part of a much larger question, namely humanities natural predisposition to violence and a genuine question has to be asked about when and where the violence is occurring.

    the overwhelming majority of violence occurs within cities and >90% of the top 50 most deadly cities in the world are in the americas

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_murder_rate
    http://www.businessinsider.com/most-violent-cities-in-the-world-2018-3

    this means that there is something distinctly different about the americas, and south american in particular, which is causing violence to be much higher here than anywhere else in the world. now hear is a break down by county of the violence rate within the us

    https://crimeresearch.org/2017/04/n...54-us-counties-2014-zero-murders-69-1-murder/
    https://www.citylab.com/equity/2012/12/geography-us-gun-violence/4171/
    https://nextcity.org/daily/entry/urban-nation-narrowing-the-gun-violence-map

    im not sure how comprehensive this is but what this points to is a significant anomaly which i think has to be addressed in any question about stopping gun violence. if its true that 54% of the us didnt experience a single murder and that 2% of the counties account for 51% of all the murders then you can do some basic math given that the other 44% accounts for 49% of the deaths.

    51%/2% = 25.5%
    49%/44% = 1.1136%
    25.5%/1.1136% = 22.89

    if those numbers hold up then the murder rate increases by 22.89 times compared to the other 44% of the us where murder occurs while the other 54% is completely unaffected. if this is true then it is a highly localized and significant mitigation and we should be looking at the contributing factors, for instance unemployment, costs of living, food and medicine availability, the rate of gun ownership and avliablility and local laws which might be contributing and see what differences exist between those locations, the locations where 49% of the murders occur and where no murders occur.

    we have to look at the actual numbers in the places where the people have died if a working solution is to be found. that being said i am not advocating for any policy or action, rather i am advocating that we need to collect information about the situation before trying to form a solution.
     
  8. Guest User

    Guest User Guest

    because i've never heard of "vaccine compensation" before and am something of a hypochondriac i went and looked into it and am sharing what i found for those who are interested:
    Sauce: https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation/data/index.html

    the list of injuries they accept are listed here which boils down to either "i got vaccinated and actually got the virus" or "my doctor jabbed the needle into my arm wrong now my shoulder's all ****ed up".

    for the past two fiscal years (2017 - 2018) there were only 1,243 and 496 cases reported, respectively. of which 696 and 86, respectively were found to be compensation-worthy.

    as far as how often you actually get a virus from vaccines and whether they do indeed become "super viruses" i found this from the CDC:
    Sauce: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/parents/tools/parents-guide/parents-guide-part4.html
    Sauce: https://www.babycenter.com/404_is-i...an-cause-the-disease-it-was-meant_10310768.bc
    you can find the side effects of CDC-approved vaccinations here.

    taking into account that the live polio vaccine is no longer in use, then it appears of the serious side effects mainly consist of three things:
    1) allergic reaction
    2) shoulder injury from injection
    3) got the virus (applicable to live viruses only)

    TL;DR i have no idea how this relates to the topic but basically if i'm reading this right there have only been 1,261 claims of vaccine-related deaths and 17,917 claims of vaccine-related injuries in the past 30 years.
    of those combined, only 5,928 cases found the vaccines at fault.

    so in other words they are probably nowhere near close to the top of 'the list', thankfully.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2018
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  9. Smarty

    Smarty Member GMC Elder

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    Ooh - when you see someone start out with falsehoods and distortions, you know this is going to be a fun exercise.

    Since I found no such report, I went the long route and downloaded the VAERS data for 2017 and had a quick look, because the CDC would use that data. In the likely case you've never heard of it, VAERS is an open reporting system that the US government uses to carefully monitor any possible incidents that may or may not be related to any vaccination taken. Note that this isn't just child vaccination, but anything for any given circumstance (often hospitalized people) for people of all ages, backgrounds and medical conditions. Note that anyone may report suspected incidents, not just medical personnel but also patients and family. Because of the open and non-obligatory nature, data may be incomplete and some of the reports cannot be easily confirmed, but it's all the CDC could report on. Also note that vaccinations may have been given hours, days, weeks or even months in advance of the symptoms described. Illness and other health issues must be taken into account and weighed against vaccine use - after all, if a person with clogged arteries dies of cardiac arrest days a vaccination against an incestuous disease, there is at least some circumstantial evidence that there may be another cause.

    Nevertheless, according to the CDC 85-90% of the reports are typical known, non-serious side effects associated with the vaccines given. So in 10 to 15% there were more serious incidents reported, including death. The CDC claims that so far none of the deaths can be positively attributed to the vaccines themselves.

    So, I counted. The data of 2017 (containing reports in the 2015-2017 range, but let's count it as a year) has 119 reported deaths. Even if you are being extremely unfair, and you attribute all those to the vaccines, that's still a far cry from the yearly gun death count in your country. Not to mention that vaccines actually save an unknown number of lives.

    So, in short, your statement is a flat out lie.

    Because vaccines, among other things, can protect against disease or death from preventable diseases, while gun control can protect against injury or death from preventable guns.

    This is the typical uninformed witch hunt that you hear from anti-vaxxers. In short:

    - Children are not infected with 'inactivated cancer', they're vaccinated against diseases that can cause cancer on the long term
    - Only children with an HIV mother are vaccinated with a medicine that prevents HIV infection. HIV positive children get medication that fights the disease's spread
    - Inactivated or weakened viruses are common in many types of vaccines. If you want to argue that that's bad, then first consider why polio has been around for thousands of years, and almost all but disappeared in the decades since we started vaccinations against it.

    Fact: no evidence to be found anywhere for this statement.
     
  10. jef

    jef Member

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    Vaccine lovers you are right that vaccines save more lives then they take. Just like gun lovers are right truly guns save more lives then they take.
    https://web.archive.org/web/2013052...pdates/archive/polio_and_cancer_factsheet.htm
    Only some evidence proves that sv40 causes cancer right? Then it's okay to give a vaccine to children because the pharmacy paid off doctors of Europe and USA ? While in India all studies prove that the vaccine causes ENTROVIRUS. It has given children the mutated virus also known as non polio paralysis.

    So if only 30% vaccines where contaminated we should not ban them. But if 0.3 % of gun owners are sick we should ban guns and take away guns of the 99.7% mentally healthy people?

    Suicide and desire to kill among 10 to 24-year-olds only exists in vaccinated kids. Cause vaccines contains ingredients which turns you into a psycho killer. ISIS vaccinates children otherwise they would never join them.
    http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/could-depression-be-unrecognized-side-effect-vaccinations



    https://globalnews.ca/news/1307353/hiv-isnt-easily-transmitted-by-sex-canadian-doctors-says/
    HIV is not transmitted doctors say. I know a guy who finds HIV infected woman and asks them for unprotected s*x, just to show us that nothing happens. He is been doing it for 13 years now and is still as healthy as he can be. And still alive

    Democrat's removed CDC webpages after they received billions of dollars in their swiss and dubia accounts. That is why we have to find information from the archives. But now that Trump is in power he will jail Obama and Clinton then all CDC webpages will be online again.

    Smarty@ SIV is a natural blood cell in monkeys and other animals blood for protection. When you take the blood cells of a monkey and make a vaccine of it and inject it in humans, the SIV enters human blood and then it's renamed to Human Immunodeficiency Virus also known as HIV. Everything in a vaccine is inactivated, normally the SIV\ HIV does no harm. But sometimes in very rare cases the HIV becomes active. Which can cause terrible harm cause it's not welcomed by human blood cells, and they try to attack it. But once the SIV\HIV mutate and defend against human bloodcell, it always wins from human blood cell's. HIV does live in blood and cannot survive in genitals or mouth. Fake myths by the condom industry. Ask them evidence. They will never answer you when you ask them show us one person that has HIV in his Semen. And ask them how can HIV survive in a woman's groin. There is no single scientific evidence that HIV can be transmitted without vaccine.


    Smarty Rememeber when Jonas Salk said: mass inoculation against polio was the cause of most polio cases throughout the USA since 1961. (Science 4/4/77 “Abstracts”)

    I just want you to wake up. Not argue with you. Guns are good cause they save lives more then vaccines do.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018
  11. Guest User

    Guest User Guest

    your friend is an HIV fetishist clinging to their neg status by only hooking up with low viral loaders while telling you it's all for !!SCIENCE!! so you won't question it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 14, 2018
  12. Ghost in the IDE

    Ghost in the IDE Member

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    How can guns save more lives than they take? Guns have one purpose.


    Ban that particular vaccine for sure. I don't think the CDC would distribute vaccines with those odds. I'd like to see the links where 30% of all vaccines are contaminated.


    Don't like those odds at all. Taking into consideration the U.S. population of 325M people. That leaves 1,000,000 people who you are telling me will likely blow us away.


    Are you making stuff up now?
     
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  13. Misty

    Misty Member

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    McDonalds saves lives (actually no because the dead cows) but is also poisonous to eat. If you were starving in the desert then mcdonalds would save your life, but the same is said for vaccines which contain toxins and autism. vaccines will save from the plague, but create a society of autists, pros and cons.

    I don't know how guns save lives but they should not be banned though. It's like if I shot some guy about to rob me and burn down my house it would not save lives but save me from being a victim (except a victim of the corrupt justice system.)
     
  14. TheouAegis

    TheouAegis Member

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    The police are under no obligation to protect citizens, nor is the military. The military fights wars overseas or subjugates citizens via martial law. The police are only required to detain suspected criminals and gather evidence for the prosecution to back up the reason for suspicions, or to hand out citations for municipal infractions citizens might commit. But protecting citizens? That's not part of a cop's job. A cop could stand back and watch two guys shoot each other to death and then arrest the victor for homicide. That's completely legal in the US.
    Remove the guns from the cops, too. They only shoot people because they have guns too.


    If the cops would stop giving people reasons to hate them, they wouldn't have to worry about getting shot at by bystanders.
     
  15. RichHopelessComposer

    RichHopelessComposer Member

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    Wait, what? Cops are constantly being shot at by "bystanders?" You think people who shoot cops are otherwise upstanding citizens who only hate and attack cops for valid reasons?
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2018
  16. Mert

    Mert Member

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    Founding fathers of yours had kept in mind that people used bolt action and powder loaded rifles to defend their "freedom" which was fairly reasonable. They didn't think about people running around with M16 automatic rifles :D
     
  17. TheouAegis

    TheouAegis Member

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    They probably didn't also think police and military would be running around with grenade launchers attached to semiauto rifles.
     
  18. Misty

    Misty Member

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    In order to stop gun violence we need more guns, Switzerland or one of those countries every citizen is required by law to own an AR-15 and they have no violence there.
     
  19. Ninety

    Ninety Member

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    No, they aren't. You're right that they have a high rate of gun ownership, but every single one is logged and tightly regulated. You're trained how to use it in compulsory military service and have to prove you know how to handle it safely before you can receive a licence to own one. You're not allowed a gun if you have a criminal record or an addiction and for the most part you can't carry openly.

    Also, about that no violence thing? Fourth-highest rate of gun violence in Europe. And it dropped when regulations increased.

    Americans.
     
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  20. Misty

    Misty Member

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    Fine whatever. But I choose freedom over safety, I don't want a nanny state sucking all the fun out of life just to keep me safe. What's next banning the right to drive a car? Handing over my rights to a corporation? All in the name of safety. Keeping animals in zoos instead of the wilds where they belong.

    "Nature always finds a way" - Lunara

    Also australia banned gun yet on wikipedia has the highest amount of gun violence.
     
  21. RichHopelessComposer

    RichHopelessComposer Member

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    Maybe they should start selling hand grenades and landmines at Wal-Mart, too? Maybe they could sell dirty nuke licenses to churches and mosques so that they'd have the freedom to protect their religious autonomy from outsiders? And why are we all driving cars instead of tanks? They really need to loosen these laws! ;)
     
  22. ROFL

    ROFL Member

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    Is this Misty's special version of Wikipedia?

    The version of Wikipedia that I see states that the US has 10x the amount of gun deaths per 100,000 people when compared to Australia.

    And 'immunisations contain autism'? I love your version of the internet. :D
     
  23. TheouAegis

    TheouAegis Member

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    Unless they remove firearms from the police, they will constantly face backlash toward attempts to disarm civilians; but they won't disarm police because the civilians are armed and civilians won't disarm themselves because the police are armed. That's assuming the civil sector is totally okay with a well-armed standing army.
     
  24. ROFL

    ROFL Member

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    Spoken like a U.S. citizen who is ignorant of how things work outside of the U.S.

    Sure, there was the minority in Australia who got upset when their guns were taken off them after the 'Port Arthur massacre', but they got over it pretty quickly. Mind you the Port Arthur massacre was the equivalent of the average Saturday night out in the U.S.

    I for one feel safer that Police carry guns and randoms on the street don't. But our Police don't have a habit of blowing people away just in case they might be armed. It doesn't happen. The U.S has a huge problem of 'The chicken and the egg'.


    I'm more interested in where Misty gets all of these 'facts' from. Never seen anything like it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
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  25. TheouAegis

    TheouAegis Member

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    She stole that from Ian Malcolm. Change one word and you avoid lawsuits. If Blizzard spent more time fixing bugs before releases rather than focusing on legal hurdles, I might still be playing their games. LOL

    [​IMG]
     
  26. Misty

    Misty Member

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    Ian is a cool guy and the only sane and rational person in the Jurrasic Park movie.

    The facts are the facts, and lets say my facts are wrong and the naysaying nun's facts are right.

    So be it, as I said before I choose freedom over safety...

    I bet in 20 years these naysayer nun's are going to be telling us that we need to put a "chip" in our bodies to keep us all "safe" from criminals. Next they are gonna put chips in our meds to shove pills down our throats to turn us all into mental vegetables like slaves, next thing you know they are putting lithium in our water, to keep us "safe" of course from mental illness, anyone who isn't a docile sheep they label as mentally ill

    What's next, them banning cars and cash. To keep us "safe" from dangerous car wrecks, to keep us "safe" from illegal funds, next thing you know these types are gonna force us all to have a microphone we wear at all times so the gov can record all of our conversations...it never ends.

    Its the modern mindset. I don't know where people went wrong but maybe brainwashed by the news media. Because back in my day people valued their own freedom and they weren't turncoats who sided with corrupt governments. Nowadays it's hard to find anyone who isn't a sheep, its the norm. It's like watching an episode of Black Mirror. Where did people's backbone go down the sewer I guess with all the other chemicals they put into our food and water

    This picture is how i feel about these naysaying nuns
    [​IMG]

    FYI I think tanks should be legalized but nukes are crossing the line, tanks are needed to defend against corruption. I think ownership of tanks should be somewhat regulated but gun regulation less not more.

    We The People are P.O'd
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
  27. ROFL

    ROFL Member

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    Seems that your facts are made up though.
     
  28. Misty

    Misty Member

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    I went on wikipedia and it was second only to Argentina.

    And it seems like you missed the point entirely...even if your facts are correct, EVEN IF...: EVEN SO... what I said still stands.

    "I said before I choose freedom over safety...

    I bet in 20 years these naysayer nun's are going to be telling us that we need to put a "chip" in our bodies to keep us all "safe" from criminals. Next they are gonna put chips in our meds to shove pills down our throats to turn us all into mental vegetables like slaves, next thing you know they are putting lithium in our water, to keep us "safe" of course from mental illness, anyone who isn't a docile sheep they label as mentally ill

    What's next, them banning cars and cash. To keep us "safe" from dangerous car wrecks, to keep us "safe" from illegal funds, next thing you know these types are gonna force us all to have a microphone we wear at all times so the gov can record all of our conversations...it never ends.

    Its the modern mindset. I don't know where people went wrong but maybe brainwashed by the news media. Because back in my day people valued their own freedom and they weren't turncoats who sided with corrupt governments. Nowadays it's hard to find anyone who isn't a sheep, its the norm. It's like watching an episode of Black Mirror. Where did people's backbone go down the sewer I guess with all the other chemicals they put into our food and water"
     
  29. ROFL

    ROFL Member

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    You do realise that list is in alphabetical order don't you? o_O

    Sort by the 'Total' column and you will see the actual order. The U.S comes in #10 at the highest kill rate and Australia comes in at #50.


    Please actually read your 'facts' before making yourself look like a fool. You must have had too many immunisations as a kid and 'caught' autism, I'd say. :D
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
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  30. Misty

    Misty Member

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    I'd say youre incapable of comprehending an argument.

    How many -BLEEPING- times do I have to say this...EVEN IF your facts are correct, that it is irrelevant...


    BECAUSE

    "
    I said before I choose freedom over safety...

    I bet in 20 years these naysayer nun's are going to be telling us that we need to put a "chip" in our bodies to keep us all "safe" from criminals. Next they are gonna put chips in our meds to shove pills down our throats to turn us all into mental vegetables like slaves, next thing you know they are putting lithium in our water, to keep us "safe" of course from mental illness, anyone who isn't a docile sheep they label as mentally ill

    What's next, them banning cars and cash. To keep us "safe" from dangerous car wrecks, to keep us "safe" from illegal funds, next thing you know these types are gonna force us all to have a microphone we wear at all times so the gov can record all of our conversations...it never ends.

    Its the modern mindset. I don't know where people went wrong but maybe brainwashed by the news media. Because back in my day people valued their own freedom and they weren't turncoats who sided with corrupt governments. Nowadays it's hard to find anyone who isn't a sheep, its the norm. It's like watching an episode of Black Mirror. Where did people's backbone go down the sewer I guess with all the other chemicals they put into our food and wate
    r"

    CAUGHT AUTISM HUH THATS FUNNY


    you want to talk about FOOLS... a FOOL is someone who gullibly hands over all their rights to a goverment
     
  31. ROFL

    ROFL Member

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    Don't shoot the messenger. You are the one who based your argument on 'facts' you misread.

    I feel slightly more retarded since answering your posts. Seems I have contracted your autism over the internet. Thanks for that.


    The do already. It's called a cellular phone. They currently have the capability of recording your phone regardless of whether you are in a call or not.
     
  32. chance

    chance predictably random Forum Staff Moderator

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    @Misty, maybe you deliberately misrepresented the wiki page, or perhaps you honestly misunderstood the alphabetized list. I'm not sure. But when confronted with your mistake, the proper action is to acknowledge your mistake. Not double down with an angry rant.

    Your behavior has poisoned the discussion. So I'm closing this topic for now. Perhaps it can be re-opened later when the staff have more time to decide what action to take.
     
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