how many genders are there?

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G

Guest User

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Why do we even have segregated lavatories? Well as far as I can tell there is zero good reason. There's a bad reason though* and that's because only about half the population is equipped to use a urinal.
is it weird that i know women actually can use urinals just as well, provided they're tall enough and know how? i mean it looks awkward, sure, but if you really need to pee...

'urine funnels' are a thing, as well. :confused:
 

Yokcos

Member
Alright well let them in as well if you want. The urinals welcome all those who can pass the gauntlet required to submit their yellow liquid.
 

ShaunJS

Just Another Dev
GMC Elder
If you ask yourself which empirical fields of study care about the idea of gender it'd basically just be biology right? And thereby the kind-of-sub-categories of medicine and sports. The things affected by what we see as "gender" there are affected by your chromosomes.

Thereby if you want to be entirely empirical about things as the "two genders only" club like to profess they are, then male and female as words are defined wholly by which chromosomes you have. (this exempting the circumstances surrounding none XX/XY, given that just leads to argument about the arbitrary proportions needed to classify as a "new gender" and whether these are just considered "disorders")

But in actual use the words don't draw from this definition outside of those specific empirical fields. They're used in context of appearance, voice, style of dress, social behaviour, sexuality and genitalia. It's become clear in recent years that while historically all of those things have stemmed from a natural path of the species we're no longer at a point where those links still matter as socially and technologically we have wildly outgrown a biology that is still adapted to a tribal, hunter gatherer species of human being, not a super-tribal city dwelling member of our bizarro 21st century human zoos.

Chromosomes no longer really have much of a place informing all or really ANY of the social and cultural weight that is put behind the words "male" and "female". The only uses for this definition that are at all meaningful and empirical are completely biological. In THOSE contexts, say for example, in medicine, one could simply stop including an irrelevant "gender" field on forms and instead include a chromosome field that would serve literally all of the same purposes. Medical history would cover any alterations to genitalia or hormone therapies that might have occurred in an individuals life.

Sports where XY chromosomes are widely agreed to give a notable advantage (or vice versa) could simply do the same thing. "Women's division" simply becoming "XX division".

When you can simply ask for a patient's chromosomes, including the word "male" or "female" becomes as useless and empirically irrelevant as asking for a patient's favourite brand of shoe.

This is why the so-called "logical, rational" position that there are "scientifically" no more than two genders is really just an emotional plea to keep words as meaning the same thing that they have been brought up with even though they clearly are no longer fit for purpose.
 
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ShaunJS

Just Another Dev
GMC Elder
Unfortunately everyone is too worried about either:

  • Finding their own social or cultural identity amongst a broken idea of gender that literally doesn't mean anything beyond what an outdated social system says it does, leading to supposed problem of "too many different genders". Progressive but only in what feels to me as a bandage over the problem kind of way. It's a baby step. I'm insanely lucky that I don't really have to deal with this whole identity problem as I happened to socially identify fairly happily with what my chromosomes gave me.
  • Keeping down ideas they find confusing or strange because they're uncomfortable with the idea that the things they were raised to believe might be flawed or they think that change or progress is inherently dangerous especially if they are able to point out that in any possible way it is not a 100% perfect solution.

Go figure.
 
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Ethanicus

Guest
There are 6500 cromosomal differences between males and females. I'd argue it might matter just a little. And it's completely biased to make claims such as saying gender doesn't matter in our society. You're basically just assuming everyone agrees on this when they don't.
 
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zendraw

Guest
so? even if there are a bazzilion cromosomes? im yet to see a human with a tenticle commin out of his pants or somthing else, which is also false. mamels have either male attributes or female, and its the same with all mamels. one needs an attribute to impregnate and the other to get pregnant and have a baby, its that simple.
cromosomes, shromosomes, thats just facts which scientists interpete how they like. scientific facts dont mean anything without context. and scientists can put any context to theyr facts, that they want.

and actually i want to rewrite my first comment, there are only 2 sexes, no genders and no gays or some nonsense like that, ive seen 'gay' people and they are simply disturbed individuals, thats all. all these gay people and people that identify as ponies and w/e nonsense, forget about all that jazz and become normal after they get drunk to the point they cant remember theyr name. that is the most natural altho unconcious state that a man can be and w/e is real then, is simply real. reason? becouse there are 1001 things that cloud and push around your perception which simply dissapear when you lose controll. i am yet to see a man with a clear mind and a woman in his lap and not getting aroused. well unless hes some buddha or in age. :D if (social constructs != reality) {ergo sum}.
 
U

Ungrateful Dead

Guest
so? even if there are a bazzilion cromosomes? im yet to see a human with a tenticle commin out of his pants or somthing else, which is also false. mamels have either male attributes or female, and its the same with all mamels. one needs an attribute to impregnate and the other to get pregnant and have a baby, its that simple.
cromosomes, shromosomes, thats just facts which scientists interpete how they like. scientific facts dont mean anything without context. and scientists can put any context to theyr facts, that they want.

and actually i want to rewrite my first comment, there are only 2 sexes, no genders and no gays or some nonsense like that, ive seen 'gay' people and they are simply disturbed individuals, thats all. all these gay people and people that identify as ponies and w/e nonsense, forget about all that jazz and become normal after they get drunk to the point they cant remember theyr name. that is the most natural altho unconcious state that a man can be and w/e is real then, is simply real. reason? becouse there are 1001 things that cloud and push around your perception which simply dissapear when you lose controll. i am yet to see a man with a clear mind and a woman in his lap and not getting aroused. well unless hes some buddha or in age. :D if (social constructs != reality) {ergo sum}.
Oh hey guys, I found Mike Pence.
 
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zendraw

Guest
it doesnt matter what you think, it is what it is. there are people who think theyr smart, yet theyr stupid and there are people who think theyr stupid, but theyr smart. what is more important to you? is the question. to know the truth or to wodnder in your thoughts? to be? or not to be?
 
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zendraw

Guest
how are those questions relavent to my comment? :D
i dont care about people`s orientations, this is the topic here.

but your questions may have relevance. becouse from all the gayness and feminism thats going arount last few years alot of the movies and serials and other media absorbed it and is pretty much shovin it in your face. for instance you know Sherloc, the detective. the classic is Sherloc is the detective Watson is the doc and ms. Hudson is the old rent woman. But in Elementary Watson is a woman and ms Hudson is some trans guy or w/e. not to mention the Penguin bein gay in Gotham.
so no, the people themselves dont affect me. but theyr propaganda does.
 
G

Guest User

Guest
do they invite you to threesomes?
straight people invite me to theyr threesomes all the time.
i'm also bombarded by theyr terrible shoehorned romances in the middle of every action movie ever. doesn't matter if it's dinosaurs, robot alien invaders, crazy serial killers on the loose, they gotta put in a romance. #EndStraitPropaganda

als o Mike Pence please make 'Click the Clown' our National Video Game i think its an important part of our culture and American video game history. thanx :)
 
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Yokcos

Member
doesn't matter if it's dinosaurs, robot alien invaders, crazy serial killers on the loose, they gotta put in a romance.
holy moly this is so dang irritating. I'm here for some gosh diddly darned violence, stop watering it down with this trite directors, please and thank you.
 
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zendraw

Guest
then lets just give some kids to pedobears simply cus they want it. and some corpses to necrophils and.. you get my point. meny people want meny things, but it doesnt mean that those things are good, even if they think theyr good. its even proven in psychology that homosexuality and other perversions are bad for one`s being. im also reminded of how hitler propangadated homosexuality on some country to make it weak and unstable. the only thing good about homosexuality and its subcategories is that its politically correct otherwise its bad for your being and health. dont mistake comfort for good.
 

Ninety

Member
then lets just give some kids to pedobears simply cus they want it. and some corpses to necrophils and.. you get my point. meny people want meny things, but it doesnt mean that those things are good, even if they think theyr good. its even proven in psychology that homosexuality and other perversions are bad for one`s being. im also reminded of how hitler propangadated homosexuality on some country to make it weak and unstable.
Maybe the most disturbing thing about this is that you seem to think Pedobear is real. No wonder you're a bit confused about reality.
 
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zendraw

Guest
Ninety, spam.

and no were not all F`d up, were just growing beings like all beings in existance, and as such we commit mistakes and learn.
 
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zendraw

Guest
dont get me wrong, i cant be more chill then i am now. :D i mjust bein real about things, i find no joy in meddlin with opinions be them mine or some1 elses.

and in reality, no1 cares about any1`s orientations or perversions. every healthy person that ive encountered cares about himself and is an egoist, and with that he displays good behaviour which others can relate to and approach. 'different' people are simply annoyng if they propagandate theyr bs otherwise theyr just people, ive had gay collegues and dint kill them or hunt them down just becus i dont support theyr lifestyle. :D
like i sayd, propaganda is what is bad, otherwise only nature can judge.


Edit: Nux, what do you mean transgenders feel being of the opposite sex? arent they both sexes in a way?
 
Q

Quailfail

Guest
My transgender friends agree gender is on a spectrum. But I guess in your eyes that would make them fake.

My reading skills are not good enough to understand who is joking and who is being serious, so I will just leave links about how gender has had different perceptions in cultures and history. I am sorry if I come across as a disease, my wish was to be understanding.
 

Nux

GameMaker Staff
GameMaker Dev.
My transgender friends agree gender is on a spectrum.
I agree gender is along a spectrum. However, this spectrum consists of the binary genders: male/female. You may be manly men, or feminine females, but I do not believe each is their own gender. Even though a male - who is completely satisfied with being male, and has no depression or body dysphoria what so ever - acts like a stereotypical female, does not mean he is a new gender. He still classifies as male.

Also, I'm really sorry by the way for being so hash with my previous post.
 

Nocturne

Friendly Tyrant
Forum Staff
Admin
However, this spectrum consists of the binary genders: male/female.
http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2016/gender-lines-science-transgender-identity/
Skip to the last paragraph for a tl;dr:
So, where do we stand on transgender issues? Science tells us that gender is certainly not binary; it may not even be a linear spectrum. Like many other facets of identity, it can operate on a broad range of levels and operate outside of many definitions. And it also appears that gender may not be as static as we assume.
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2017/01/how-science-helps-us-understand-gender-identity/
Gender is an amalgamation of several elements: chromosomes (those X’s and Y’s), anatomy (internal sex organs and external genitals), hormones (relative levels of testosterone and estrogen), psychology (self-defined gender identity), and culture (socially defined gender behaviors). And sometimes people who are born with the chromosomes and genitals of one sex realize that they are transgender, meaning they have an internal gender identity that aligns with the opposite sex—or even, occasionally, with neither gender or with no gender at all.
Also:
http://www.nature.com/news/sex-redefined-1.16943
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ravishly/neuroscience-proves-what-_b_6494820.html
http://news.stanford.edu/news/2003/february19/aaassocialselection219.html

So, like it or lump it, science is pretty unambiguous about this subject... ;)

You may be manly men, or feminine females, but I do not believe each is their own gender. Even though a male - who is completely satisfied with being male, and has no depression or body dysphoria what so ever - acts like a stereotypical female, does not mean he is a new gender. He still classifies as male.
Who the hell are you to tell them how to classify themselves? Surely you should simply ASK them how they want to be identified and be done with it? And if they say they want to be defined as genderfluid-brony-3rd-dan-of-the-glorious-fish then why not? Who does it hurt? What does it matter to you or anyone how someone else wants to be identified? I mean, I think the name "Nux" sucks, so apart from now I'm going to refer to you as Susan! That okay with you Susan? In fact, as forum Admin, I think I'll change your username to Susan too here on the forums so we can ALL call you Susan. You won't have a problem with that since you don't have a problem with telling other people how they should be identified, right, Susan?
 
Q

Quailfail

Guest
Thank you for apologising. I hope you do not mind me trying to explain further. Because a lot of this confusion comes from getting lost in cultural translation (as well as the science terms of gender and sex).

In American, Korean, England and other well-known cultures, gender usually gets redefined by saying "I am not a broken representation of my sex for doing/acting/being this". Breaking apart gender norms by giving permission that someone born with this sex can have their gender redefined. "You are no less a woman for wearing pants."

However in other cultures such as some American tribes went about it in a different way. Some broken down by: Female, male, Two Spirit female, Two Spirit male and transgendered (I think Navajo has 4 roles, Lakota 3?). This defined what they wear, jobs and roles. Starting with the sex they were born with, how they felt in that body and interacted with others.

These are just two of many different ideas on how cultures apply their gender roles. Most people use it to reflect upon the society they were born in. Since there is many societies, there will be many genders created to define themselves. After all, what a women is expected to do in France is very different than a woman in Japan. It translates as female language-wise, but what a female IS certainly not the same.

If you wish me to stop speaking, that is fine. I don't want to step on anyone's feet.
 

Nux

GameMaker Staff
GameMaker Dev.
@Nocturne , I read most of your sources and I agree with them. However, they are all about transgender identity, which I am all for. What I despise are people who want to feel special, so they jump onto the band wagon, blasting things out of proportion with all these random genders people make up. I believe people should be able to identify however they feel most comfortable, be it mainly male with a touch of female; 50% male/female; or both, but they would still fall within whichever team they chose: Male/Female.

The problem I have is these bandwaggoners is not the fact that they identify as genders outside a binary, but that these genders harm the outside view of transgender identities. This is the reason some people think trans women want to attack women in bathrooms, because there are plenty of fetishists or predators who enforce this idea. The reason some people think transgender people are delusional is due to people hopping onto the fad to look interesting by saying they are omni-queer and then scream at people who "misgender" them. This is somewhat like people who pretend to be gay because they believe it makes them more interesting. Wouldn't you be angry if you were gay, and someone who was pretending to be gay was enforcing a misguided image of homosexuals?

Surely you should simply ASK them how they want to be identified and be done with it?
Yes, I should. And IF the give an answer such as "can you use she instead of he" I am 1000% for that and I will comply. But the problem I have is that the adoption of alternate made-up gender identities are contributing to the deformation of transgender people. Prime example of being Xe/Xi/Xei, or identifying as "polyqueer horse-kin" utterly diminishes and ridicules people who identify as something sane.

if they say they want to be defined as genderfluid-brony-3rd-dan-of-the-glorious-fish then why not? Who does it hurt?
Because lines need to be drawn between the conceivable and the implausible. It is possible to have an identity that is linked to our social and cultural actions, for example: identifying as male, female, and anywhere between. However, it is impossible to identify as a planet-kin-onmi-girl because it has no context and is not linked to anything within our culture. Now, if that "gender" was a label given to a specific part of a gender spectrum, then it would have context. On it's own it is nothing.

What does it matter to you or anyone how someone else wants to be identified?
It doesn't matter to me so long as the person is being sincere and not making things up to get attention, or to feel like they're special.

I mean, I think the name "Nux" sucks
I do too; I wish i used my old username or something more creative.

so apart from now I'm going to refer to you as Susan! That okay with you Susan? In fact, as forum Admin, I think I'll change your username to Susan too here on the forums so we can ALL call you Susan.
Susan isn't a bad name, but it would be nice if you didn't abuse your power to attempt to humiliate me personally.

You won't have a problem with that since you don't have a problem with telling other people how they should be identified, right, Susan?
Oh, boy, you have no idea! I get told how to I should identify by society every day that I've become nerveless to it.

@Quailfail I really am sorry; I don't know why I was so rash, and I regret it now.
I understand the whole tribal gender culture. And I always believe those are just unique to those tribes. What I mean is, they contribute to their society. But like I had said previously, people in western society blow this way out of proportion and start claiming genders left right and center with no real meaning. Whereas those tribes probably developed their society upon the building blocks of those extra genders, giving them meaning.

If you wish me to stop speaking, that is fine. I don't want to step on anyone's feet.
No no, please don't stop speaking your mind for whatever reason! ;; Nobody should ever be told to be quiet in a discussion.

EDIT: I'm scared people will hold grudges on me now. I just want to say I still think nocturne is a pretty rad dude.
 
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B

Blazing

Guest
I've always felt like those lists of endless genders could really be condensed down to 3, at most 4. If somebody doesn't fit cleanly in masculine or feminine genders, just call it nonbinary/androgynous, pick a pronoun, and call it a day. Splitting hairs just makes it harder for those who don't fit gender norms to stop being viewed as freaks to one extent or another.
 

Nocturne

Friendly Tyrant
Forum Staff
Admin
@Nux: I get where you are coming from with the "snowflake" stuff, and I know people can take things too far, but anything you do other than what people request when it comes to identity is a JUDGMENT call by you based on your own OPINION. Who are you to judge how someone else feels? And how do you know that the person your are dismissing and refusing to identify as they wish isn't one of those that you consider "correct"? I mean, it's their identity, not yours. I would understand if this was something illegal or morally wrong (or even ambiguous) but it's not! If someone wants to be labelled "ser" and "genderfluid" or whatever then why not? It hurts no one and makes them feel better, so there is no reason not to do as they request. It's a question of respect, which is why I made those "Susan" comments. You want to be called "Nux", which is a fine and respectable thing and it means nothing to anybody on this forum what name you choose, but if someone comes along and says "Nope, you don't seem a Nux to me", then you say "abuse of power" and "humiliation" and don't like it (hmmm... that sounds familiar). It's disrespecting you for no other reason other than personal opinion. If I honestly felt that you were a Susan, and that your name Nux is just an affectation or a pretentious pose then according to your logic (and that of many people it would appear sadly...) I am within my rights to call you what I choose.

tl;dr: Sexuality and gender are two deeply important subjects to people and something that can cause severe emotional and psychological distress when not handled openly and with care. Accepting people's self-definition is simply showing basic human compassion and comprehension which may help those people and which certainly doesn't do any harm to those around the person. Calling someone by anything other than what they request to be called is not only disrespectful, it's insensitive and potentially deadly:

The prevalence of suicide attempts among respondents to the National Transgender Discrimination Survey (NTDS), conducted by the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force and National Center for Transgender Equality, is 41 percent, which vastly exceeds the 4.6 percent of the overall U.S. population who report a lifetime suicide attempt, and is also higher than the 10-20 percent of lesbian, gay and bisexual adults who report ever attempting suicide. Much remains to be learned about underlying factors and which groups within the diverse population of transgender and gender non-conforming people are most at risk.
tl;dr;tl;dr: Who gives a crap how someone identifies themselves? It hurts no one and may help them become happier with themselves and feel accepted as part of the normal world.

:bunny:
 
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Guest User

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EDIT: I'm scared people will hold grudges on me now. I just want to say I still think nocturne is a pretty rad dude.
with the power vested in me in by the State of California, i hereby pardon you for your crimes against queermanity. go forth now, my child, and bring honor to our clan.
 

Ninety

Member
In fairness to Nux, whether or not you respect people's preferred gender is a different issue to whether you think micro-labelling is broadly good for society
 

Yokcos

Member
I mean, it's their identity, not yours.
What if I were to tell you people can be wrong about their identity?

If, for instance, someone claims to be a doctor but does not have a PhD, they are wrong about who they are.
If someone claims to be a nice person but in fact treats everyone around them like garbage, they are incorrect.
If someone thinks they're a writer but has not written anything in years, if someone thinks they're a leader but can't convince anyone to follow them, if someone thinks they're stupid but can outwit everyone in a 10km radius, if someone thinks they're a victim but has all the privileges of the modern world, if someone thinks they're a third gender but clearly has all the anatomical and mental features of a female; in all of these cases the person in question is mistaken.
 
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zendraw

Guest
Noc, apparently those snowflakes give a fk what they identify as, and its them who are making all the fuss about this subject, if they havent brought up these gender shenanigans, no1 wuld have cared, and lets not talk about discrimination and judgment cus every1 with a different then avarage appearence or thought has been discriminated and bullied and judged etc. which is what people do when they dont like you, and they have the right to do it, if you get emotional about it, thats your problem, life is not some super hero movie, every1 has his own misery, and the way you deal with it, IS who you are. not what you identify as. and thats what basically games are all about, a simulation which gives you the oppurtunity to deal with its problems. games are basically showin you in a safe space what life is all about. oh no, i brought the safe space thing...
if these people really want to live in peace with themselves and not feel sorry for themselvs, then they shuld grow a spine and accept who they really are and not some identity pulled from somwhere.
 

Nocturne

Friendly Tyrant
Forum Staff
Admin
if these people really want to live in peace with themselves and not feel sorry for themselvs, then they shuld grow a spine and accept who they really are and not some identity pulled from somwhere.
The arrogance and hypocrisy here is staggering... How the hell are they supposed to accept who they really are if they don't get an opportunity to explore who they really are because some arrogant sod is telling them how they think they should be???? Keep in mind that most of these "snowflakes" are confused teen/twenty somethings who are simply trying to find their space within a society that is hostile to them on many levels. Criticising them for doing the very thing you are saying they should do is stupid! It takes a hell of a lot of courage for most people with gender identity crisis to actually come out and explain and explore their sexuality and feelings, and if them labelling themselves in some way helps them to come to terms with who they are then what's the problem? All your arguments boil down to "in my opinion", while I have presented numerous articles and scientific studies that demonstrate the damage that such an outlook can have on people with gender issues, so maybe your opinion is wrong? Science has demonstrated pretty much beyond reasonable doubt that sexuality and gender is FAR more complex than the black/white male/female dichotomy, so maybe you should get with the times and ditch the antique attitude.

What if I were to tell you people can be wrong about their identity?
Then I'd say, so what? There is no right or wrong when it comes to the individual and their self-perception. And your arguments are stupid... a doctor needs to be qualified which has nothing to do with opinion and plenty of people consider themselves good people or intelligent or skilled even though you may not. AND???? These are not objective things, they are entirely subjective and you have no right to say otherwise just because you THINK someone is bad, or stupid, or whatever. I mean, I think I am a pretty handsome guy and so does my wife but you may think I'm ugly. What does that prove? Who's right? I'll tell you, NOONE IS RIGHT EXCEPT ME! It's my body, my face and if I think I'm handsome and am happy with myself then you should be happy for me too, even though you have other opinions. The only important thing here is how I feel about myself and whether I am happy with myself. If someone is happy saying they are wunderkind or whatever then let them? IT HURTS NOONE and I repeat, it helps them to come to terms with the fact that they don't feel they fit the male/female narrative.

What I hate about all this is that the people arguing for dichotomy in gender are simply imposing their worldview and not accepting that others can have a different AND EQUALLY VALID AND RESPECTABLE world view. There is no right or wrong in how someone identifies themselves in this way. Everyone is free to express themselves as they wish (within the law etc...), but by saying "You can't identify as any gender except the ones I will permit you" you are falling into fascist territory.
 
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zendraw

Guest
Noc, why are you not quoting the underlined part? which is whats supposed to be most important in my comment? i can also take bits and pieces of your comment and manufacture w/e proves my point. and my point is, that getting santimental about your problems wont fix them nor will integrate you in life nor you will grow and mature, manufacturing identities is as old as man is, and you dont need to be trans to be in a difficult situation, or get harrassed or bullied or feel denied and so on and so on.

now to answer you bit by bit.
-theyr supposed to accept themselves the same way every1 else is. like i sayd they arent special in regard of discrimination and etc. every1 has problems, some deal with them and move on, others whina and complain, and if you try to help these whiners they become like beggars for good will. this is reality. lets not get biased now that they cant be bad.
-whatever it takes, that you must give, i dont like it, you dont like it, no1 likes it. you must pay to ride on the roller coster.
-im not criticising them or tryin to pull them down, im sayn they shuld stop talking about it as if its somthing special. i alredy said why.
-i dont see how being angry and passive agressive on the internet helps them in any way, cus thats what your going to see from them, and from the other trans or troubled people you will see disgust towards theyr snowflake part of the community.
like i sayd, how you deal with life is who you are, no matter are you a man a woman a trans a helicopter a snorlax or w/e. and people who have gotten over theyr problems will aways look down on the whining part of theyr community, becouse they have paid the price, endured the heat, and preserved their intelligence. also im not talkin about kids/teens here, if anything theyr a victm of this femigay propaganda that fills theyr heads with snowflakery and some made up rights that they have while in the same time prevents them from facing theyr problems.
-all my 'arguments' are no arguments but what ive observed and understood. all your articles and studies are nothing but politishMit that only justifies the lgtbqesdrr propaganda that makes some people more special then others. and the only reason that its somthing people talk about today is the media, there is no real reason to dive in the matter.

some people are trans, some are gay, some are helicopters, some are somthin else. OK dont make a fuss about it or start an agenda. every1 passes through misery.
 

Yokcos

Member
Then I'd say, so what?
Just mentioning that aspects of one's identity can be determined by things outside of said individual's opinion.

I think the original question is a little vague because "gender" is such a woefully poorly defined term in this context.
What is a man? What is a woman? What does it mean to be neither?
 
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Ethanicus

Guest
I keep seeing this cop out. Rather than actually discussing it, I keep seeing people jump to supreme offense and throwing "dude, so not cool" out about every other thing someone says. It's an attempt to shut the argument out without any debate. I understand someone not being respectful but that's no excuse to ignore their arguments. Emotions and "feelings" are fluid and untrustworthy, and, as I've said, should have no place in logical debate.
 
I keep seeing this cop out. Rather than actually discussing it, I keep seeing people jump to supreme offense and throwing "dude, so not cool" out about every other thing someone says. It's an attempt to shut the argument out without any debate. I understand someone not being respectful but that's no excuse to ignore their arguments. Emotions and "feelings" are fluid and untrustworthy, and, as I've said, should have no place in logical debate.
Can you give an example of this in this thread? From what I've seen, the "dude, not cool!" side has mostly been backing up their "not cools!" with arguments, when the loudest people saying "TWO GENDERS!" are just saying "THERE'S ONLY TWO GENDERS, DEAL WITH IT!!!" over and over again or "people who say there are more than two genders are ANNOYING ATTENTION WHORES!" or "HOMOSEXUALS ARE GROSS AND UNNATURAL GAWD. ALSO TRANSEXUALS!!!"
 
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Guest User

Guest
I keep seeing this cop out. Rather than actually discussing it, I keep seeing people jump to supreme offense and throwing "dude, so not cool" out about every other thing someone says.
if you're complaining about my 'PHRASING' comment, it's because (as i interpreted it) you said "i don't know if we should make an effort to decrease the amount of raping and murdering transgenders face because that'd be a huge inconvenience".
which i don't think that's what you intended to say so...you know...PHRASING. that being said, even if you did mean it that way, it isn't really a disputable opinion and trying to argue with that falls more into the realm of "hurr durr muh moralities" rather than actual science, logic, or fact.

...that probably wasn't as clear as it should have been. :oops:
 
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zendraw

Guest
thats exactly what trolls do, nothing, yet creating 3 pages of jibberish.
i was jokin bout you but that really is how trolls operate. :D
 
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Sam (Deleted User)

Guest
Yeah, I didn't know what he meant by gibberish. A good number of posts in this topic have been an interesting read.
 
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zendraw

Guest
its all jibberish, your refined intellect will become obsolete when the politics change after 50 years. :D for now you can have your confidence that what your spittin is true. but even if what you post is truth itself, it wont matter, becouse in the end its all up to the person what will he do about it, which leads me to what i said twice, that you are how you deal with life, not what you identify as. there are meny things, truths, written by great people and philosophers in the past that were denied at theyr time and considered a discovery today. but i wont dive any further.
 
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