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 GUI problems and incoherences, a few suggestions for IDE

Well, there's that already. I did not even start my first game creation in GMS2's environnement that I already have drawbacks on my new working area. So, first thing first...

  • The resource tree, in GMS was on the left, now you put it on the right with no possibilities to change its position, or if the option is there, it's well hidden as I did not find it yet. OK - Drag and Drop works but it does not help that a right click in that area does nothing. We are not used to a drag & drop environnement besides in the actions of an object so I had a hard time finding that out.
  • When switching from dark to light theme, you elliminate the background and everything becomes White. My IDE becomes boring alongside with straight out black outlined button icons. A bit of color would make my environnement much more fun to play with.
  • No more Add object, sprite, sound, music and other easy buttons in the toolbar AND there is space to put stuff in there. I overused those buttons. Now I NEED to right click every single time on the resource tree to simply add something.
  • Customising anything in the IDE should be accessible through a right click. For example, customize toolbar, right-click in the toolbar. You know, things that normally work in any other programs, MS Office, Firefox, Google Chrome, IE, Edge, Etc... Right clicks are our easy way to get to preferences of particular IDE areas.
  • My first sprite importation, a GIF file. GMS2 was unable to import my file. Oh and I get this weird message saying that sprite importation from a file is not an undoable action. What ever that means??? So basically, I can not import my GIFs anymore. Well, this is half true. GMS2 cannot import ANIMATED GIFs. If you GIF is not animated, it will import the image.
  • The tile editor is NOT easy to understand at first and hard to follow. So here's a round up: You cannot import a tileset image. There is NO option to import an image as you need to import an image as a sprite FIRST, then choose a sprite as a tileset. So tiles and sprites are all mixed up together. That's the first impressions. You should have the possibility to import an image directly in the tileset window.
  • After playing with tiles a bit, I tried to find where the backgrounds were until I figured out that GMS2 groups all images in the sprites no matter what it is, a background, a tileset or a sprite.
  • One thing that bothered me VERY MUCH. There is NO cancel or OK buttons. Everything you do is done live. So bassically, you do your stuff and if you messed, stop there, close the window and delete your resource. This is unconventionnal to me as a "Check" or "OK" button to approuve my changes is what we all do in the Windows environement. Now, to save your stuff, you...click on the "X" to close Window and save. That's VERY unconventionnal. If you work that way, then change the "X" for a checkmark. That would reassure people that when closing the window, changes are saved as "X" means close and do NOT save unless a message appears to propose to save changes, you know, like any other professional aps... (I'm NOT saying GMS2 is not professional here)
  • OK, I've created my very first object. I needed to get used to the new way of presenting things but for now, it's new so I need to get used to this new way of doing things BUT, I get my new problem not too long. Just to test, I put my window in full screen and you know what? Cannot find the button to put that back in window mode. Once it's in full screen, nothing to do to get that back in window mode. Guess what? you need to close and start again. THAT is NOT conveniant at all!
  • Now guess what! I am now getting VERY angry at those X in the top rightr corner. I decided to declare a very simply variable in code style. I entered a code in the creation event. I've written my first line of code, I want to save it and apply. Again, nowhere can you see an apply button. So I learned that the X saves the whole thing so my reaction is, you guessed it, click on the "X". NOW GMS2 decides to act the normal way, it cancels all my code and even removes it OH and no confirmation window asked me what to do before closing. YOYO, decide yourselves now, what should that damn "X" do, close and cancel or save because It's been more than jalf an hour and I have not been able to create a playable room yet.
  • OK so after 10 minutes of trying to add objects and tiles to the room, I realize that GMS2 engeniously kept the resource tree for interaction with all the IDE. That was brilliant but I did not realise what to do because I was used to the old way of doing things. That's a good not BUT, GMS2 does NOT like rooms without backgrounds as the room that is not filled with a Background well, you can draw your sprites when moving along with it. I tried to attach an image to show what I mean sorry, there was not a OK button or anything to tell me image was uploaded so I have 4 images uploaded. YoYo, you have problems with OK, Cancel and user friendly messages to confirm actions done.
  • Now a BIG issue is that this simple code in GMS works flawlessly but in GMS2 it's just hard for the eyes. it seems like the object is moving back and forth
    Code:
    if keyboard_check(vk_left) {x-=4;}
    if keyboard_check(vk_right) {x+=4;}
    if keyboard_check(vk_down) {y+=4;}
    if keyboard_check(vk_up) {y-=4;}
    If the object is within the view pane, the movement is not seemless and very laggy. As soon as the view starts following you, that lag is not visible anymore. This NEEDS to be corrected.
  • I passed through the image editor which is a very nice upgrade but is missing something pretty crucial to me. When I imported my images in GIF format, the background was not invisible so I needed to remove the background which GMS2 does not offer anymore so I need to manually edit my images to remove the background. Like in Paint.NET, it would be great for the magic wand tool to permit and "Ctrl+Shift" shortcut to select ALL the color event if NOT available through the normal select tool. Basically, that shortcut would select the color even if it's surrounded by other pixels that are not of the same color. If you don;t know what I mean try it in Paint.NET. Very usefull.
  • And as a last point, It took me a few tries to understand HOW to developpe a tree in the options as when clicking on the options, nothing happens. You need to click on the SMALL arrow beside the title. It would be great to click on the title to developpe the options under that tree. It would be, well, you know...USER FRIENDLY.
Well I think I've written enough and I hope GMS2 will get things a bit better as for now, it does not justiffy the 60$ more I need to pay for this new version. I would not import my game now into this IDE that is not easy to work with and where saving and cancelling is not clear.

It's a good beta but more work is needed. Good job so far YoYo, still a few things to correct but it's heading the good way.

2016-11-06 12_18_32-Démarrer.png
 
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Nocturne

Friendly Tyrant
Forum Staff
Admin
You know, a LOT of what you are talking about is resolved by checking out the IDE tutorials and the manual (which it seems you haven't done). Things like changing the position of the resource tree and tilesets etc... are all explained in them (yes you CAN dock the resource tree to any side you want), and they were designed to teach you the basics of the IDE. GMS2 is NOT an update to 1.4, it is a different product and as such it works in different ways which you will need to learn, so don't use it expecting it to be like 1.4 as it's not. For example, the fullscreen code editor can be made small again by simply clicking the tab it's on and ragging it back into the workspace area, which is why it doesn't have a button. :)
 

Cpaz

Member
The first thing I did was drag the resource tree tab and drag it to the left. So yeah.
But I can agree on other points, the IDE needs a bit of polish here and there.

But can we all just admire the fact that they separated room speed from draw speed? That alone makes me want to buy this. (And the actually good room editor, of course)
 
You know, a LOT of what you are talking about is resolved by checking out the IDE tutorials and the manual (which it seems you haven't done). Things like changing the position of the resource tree and tilesets etc... are all explained in them (yes you CAN dock the resource tree to any side you want), and they were designed to teach you the basics of the IDE. GMS2 is NOT an update to 1.4, it is a different product and as such it works in different ways which you will need to learn, so don't use it expecting it to be like 1.4 as it's not. For example, the fullscreen code editor can be made small again by simply clicking the tab it's on and ragging it back into the workspace area, which is why it doesn't have a button. :)
When I first ran GM4 back in the days, I needed no videos and tutorials as how to create my first game. I did not check the tutorials to see how a new commer could make a game as easy as GM was easy to use back then. For example, for a new commer, just choosing between drag & drop and coding is a challenge and needs to get informed. As to the draggable tab back to window mode, this is a Windows program and as Windows is meant to be, there are 3 distinct buttons that we work with all day long: Minimize, Winodw/Full screen and close. When working in a Windows environement, we need to keep that in head when working with user friendly IDEs so I am still sticking to the point that even though this is a new port to GM, this is supposed to be meant for new commewrs that begin in the game making industry and as a beginner, the interface looses me.

As for other problems, GMS2 does not remember the last path I saved my game under and when I open, I ALWAYS need to navigate back to my GMS2 games folder. AND when opening the game, One of my objects automatically shows opened as with GMS My screen is clean, nothing opened. So GMS2 should ask to remember where I was or not in the program's preferences.

To resume, GMS2, for now at least, is not easy for new comers. Even the actions when using drag and drop are not as easy since they are using the metro style to show the buttons, this makes it hard to easily identify the actions. The good part of Microsoft Office 2007 was how easy the buttons were identifiable. While as Office 2013 became lame and dull because they chose to use minimal colors for their IDE. Well YoYo Games did exactly like that. The IDE was already not polished in GMS now in GMS2, they just removed the colors that helped us identify what was what. Of course they did a good thing in grouping actions under a specific color for the group but the fact that they could have just put a red, green, or other colored background instead for the group and use nice colored icons as we are used to in GameMaker (Not GMS as the icons in GMS are all 16 bit??? weird)

As for the NOT AN UPGRADE excuse. That is not true. If YYG decided to make a new version and called it GMS2 then THAT is an update. BUT we could just call it an upgrade instead of an update. As for Windows 7 to Windows 8 is an upgrade and Windows 8 to 10 is an upgrade, well Windows stays Windows. Same thing here GameMaker should stay GameMaker. So to resume again. We are in a Windows environement which means KEEP THOSE "X" with the function Windows made it for and KEEP those full screen/window mode buttons where they belong. GameMaker is not an OS by itself, it's a program working IN AN OS operating with the OS' environement, settings AND way to work and handle.

So GMS2 is and upgrade for old GM users but not an easy program for new users without taking a tour with 10 to 20 minutes of videos and tutorials. I did not need this back in GM4, I think YYG should keep that in mind. GM was an easy to use Game Developement tool which is what made this engine work and where it is now today. Never loose your old vision as that was what made you unique!
 
I figured out how to move the resource tree in about ten seconds with no help. Wasn't too hard.

I agree that it's a little weird that everything is "live" when you make changes. Not sure if that's going to save or add time to my workflow. Will have to work with the program more to find out.
 

Juju

Member
But can we all just admire the fact that they separated room speed from draw speed?
Err...

Broadly a +1 to a colour replace tool / alpha control in the image editor. It's bizarre that there's no way to use the fill tool to clear out section of an image.
 
P

ParodyKnaveBob

Guest
As for Windows 7 to Windows 8 is an upgrade and Windows 8 to 10 is an upgrade, well Windows stays Windows. Same thing here GameMaker should stay GameMaker. So to resume again. We are in a Windows environement which means KEEP THOSE "X" with the function Windows made it for and KEEP those full screen/window mode buttons where they belong. GameMaker is not an OS by itself, it's a program working IN AN OS operating with the OS' environement, settings AND way to work and handle.
  1. Many would disagree with you about Windows 8 being an upgrade. $;^ J Of course, 8.1 helped -- and I know there were certain lovely improvements from 7 to 8. Anyway. Joke. Whatever.

  2. Windows 10 actually removes a lot of the OK | Apply | Cancel setup, favoring live changes where feasible. This struck me as really odd at first, but I quickly got used to it, and really, it's more sensible for the most part anyway. You came to change a setting. Change it. You don't need three choices afterward. Don't like the setting? Change it back. No question as to which it is -- live changes don't OK | Apply five different settings at once anyway.

  3. I'm sorry, but "GameMaker should stay GameMaker" sounds like vague propaganda. (And I really am sorry in saying that. I expect you don't mean for it to.) If GameMaker stayed GameMaker, for one, it'd be Game Maker (or perhaps Animo) -- but neverminding such cosmetic changes, it'd really need to remain the vision of one man in his free time (perhaps still depositing mailed checks because, hey, GM shouldn't lose that personal touch, or it's just not the same -- assuming it should ever get paid features at all), or at the very least not bloat the 2D games with all those newfangled 3D "features." In all earnest, I'm trying to hold back from sounding sarcastic here; despite any absurdity, I'm just trying to give some applicable examples that what one person considers too big a change, another considers the perfect improvement.

  4. Do you realize YYG's stated plan is to put this IDE on more OSes than Windows? (That said, I'm unaware of any intended IDE OS that lacks some form of iconize | maximize/restore | close buttons. I'd say more here, but I can't put my fingers on GMS2 yet to give tangible feedback on its usage of old/new conventions.)

  5. Meanwhile, I'm finding more and more software (on Windows for the immediate context -- although not necessarily Windows for the remote context) saving live changes. Browsers, for example. The irony? Games have been doing this for decades. $E^ } Meanwhile, my outsider guess is that YYG's saying, "hey, auto-save everything with fewer concerns about lost work and interstitial compile test times! yay! -- you do of course use the default-in-our-minds source-control management workflow, right? yeah of course you do, it's the default-in-our-minds workflow." $:^ ]
Regards,
Bob
 
  1. Many would disagree with you about Windows 8 being an upgrade. $;^ J Of course, 8.1 helped -- and I know there were certain lovely improvements from 7 to 8. Anyway. Joke. Whatever.

  2. Windows 10 actually removes a lot of the OK | Apply | Cancel setup, favoring live changes where feasible. This struck me as really odd at first, but I quickly got used to it, and really, it's more sensible for the most part anyway. You came to change a setting. Change it. You don't need three choices afterward. Don't like the setting? Change it back. No question as to which it is -- live changes don't OK | Apply five different settings at once anyway.
...
It's amazing how people focus on details when all we are talking about is general logics.
  1. First off: Talking about that auto-save feature. I said nothing bad about it. I just said that the IDE did not make it clear what was saved and what was not. For example, insert a code in the creation event of an object and click on the "X". Poof! Code is gone. No warning message, nothing. You just lost your code. Now click on the "X" in the same position of another Window and....suspense...your stuff is saved. The autosave or apply presentation is just not there. So replace that "X" that just auto-saves with a {check mark} and replace that "X" for a {circle with a strike in it} for those place that simply cancel everything and voilà! You just made everything MUCH clearer and easier to understand.

  2. As for the upgrade of Windows. My point here was that Windows is still Windows even though its core changed. I still recognise my Windows even though I skipped from Windows XP to Windows 10. But it OF COURSE requires some getting used to and I'm not complaining about how different it is to work with GameMaker. I'm just saying that what made GameMaker at its core should still be felt through GMS2 giving us INDEED, a breath of fresh air and modernise its features and IDE.

  3. Now as we are speaking with OS again because I think this seamed important while I was not intentionaly focusing on this point. GameMaker Studio was, at it's base, a pure Windows program. There is ABSOLUTELY NO reason to complain about the fact that YYGF want to port on other platforms, I mean, that's the futur. BUT what I do blame is the fact that in GMS2, I feel like I'm living in another computer and loose muself with the out of box functions GMS2 does that are not Windows. I also believe that this will happen in Mac or Linux. When you create a software, make it's IDE work with the OS it's installed on so your user won't get lost and feel familiar. I'm mayber a bit lost with the new INTERFACE but that normal BUT lost in the IDE, that should NOT happen. When I click on an "X" or an import button, I expect the "X" to close asking to save and the import to import from another format. Basically, import should be browse (to my vision of things) but the import is just another logic GMS2 integrated so I deal with that change as the term is, at least, clear on what we are doing.

  4. My thoughts on GMS2 is that it was suppose to help old people like us and provide good tools for new ones like we have been in the past. I just got lost as an old and commented as a new commer that knew better and worst. So for new functionalities, I cannot say anything as my use of GameMaker is mainly for platform and 2D games so I would not even attribute myself a good tester for those core functionalities. But after over a decade of experience as a programmer in a big company, big IDE changes are always bad for old users and for new people, scary. Old user are used to a way of working with what they know and new users get scared as soon as you pop them with more than 2 windows in one screen. The KISS method is always goods but at one point of time, you need to reassure your user that their actions are understood and taken care of, not just presume they will understand or view a bunch of tutorials, the reality is that lots of users will just open the thing up and start working hoping to understand the logics fast like me and GM4 gave me that feeling years ago while as now, I seem to have entered a programming world instead of an easy game making world. The proof, each window, even in drag & drop mode are linked like a programming chart.
To resume my points, I have an IDE more dull to look at (lack of colors). Harder to look at because af all those windows one beside another instead of conveniant tabs under one Window. So I get easily lost with all those Windows not knowing where to look at. In a programmers view, it's a Netbeans IDE for game making from YYG. For us, users that hate looking at plain text IDEs, it's starting to become much more boring creating games. And you know the worst thing about this, it's that version 1.x will be abandonned by YYG and we will be stuck with users that will be using old software and when comming time to reactivate it, it will do exactly like GM7, nothing will work and the only thing possible will be to hack the software because the activation servers will now be off. That won't happen soon but it will eventually happen because of how big companies think. And then, the only thing to do will be to relearn the whole IDE over again to keep up with the new versions of GM which means that some of us will eventually just abandonne the game developping industry because it's easier to turn on our cell phone or Nintendo Switch and play the games instead of creating them.

I love GM and wish to support it as long as I can but the major differences in the IDE from 1 to 2 are just to big that I feel like jumping from Windows 7 to Windows 8 where I lose all my tools. To me the IDE of GMS2 is like passing from Windows 7 to 8. I AM NOT talking about functionalities here, just the IDE and logics behind it.
 

Mike

nobody important
GMC Elder
We did test this out on quite a few total new comers - coders, artists and designers. After watching the intro videos ALL of them managed to jump right in and create things. The main issue most folk seem to have, is none of them watch the videos or do the tutorials. The videos in themselves would save a lot of issues, and they are only a few minutes long.

WIthout the videos, newcomers aren't sure what to do initially, but with them... they jump right in without any problems.

Even out UI artist who has never coded anything in his life, managed to follow an older asteroids tutorial, and really enjoyed it.
 
We did test this out on quite a few total new comers - coders, artists and designers. After watching the intro videos ALL of them managed to jump right in and create things. The main issue most folk seem to have, is none of them watch the videos or do the tutorials. The videos in themselves would save a lot of issues, and they are only a few minutes long.

WIthout the videos, newcomers aren't sure what to do initially, but with them... they jump right in without any problems.

Even out UI artist who has never coded anything in his life, managed to follow an older asteroids tutorial, and really enjoyed it.
If it is MANDATORY to view tutorials, video or written, then your IDE HAS a problem. A good user interface self explains. That's why you get reviews that state that GUIs are easy to understand and others require a steeper learning curves and then you have the middle ones that get good and bad points. Saying that people just need to check tutorials to know how to use it means that no effort want's to be put in simplifying the user interface as that is one of the least interesting things to program because of how hard it is to simplify hords of lines of code into one conveniant button. All those checks and message box you need to program to add one extra button is often neglected and should not.

GMS2 is in Beta SO now is the time to correct those little things that will keep GMS as one of the top Game Making softwares. You may have tested lots of stuff, and I bet'ya tested hords of stuff, but now the public is here to tell you what you missed.
 

makas

Member
Dude to be honest I dont understand why you said the new IDE is so hard to understand... I dont remember anyone else saying the same stuff that you... and you are talking like what you are saying is the absolute truth and if you didnt get it at first it means nobody else will, I been using gamemaker for a long long time... and when I used for the first time GMS2 I felt like home, but a pretty nice upgraded home, with a lot of things to discover... but at the same time with the same feeling that gm always had for me... if anything I think the old IDE is way harder to understand than the current one... and Im sure than me and a lot of people watched tutorial videos to understand how everything worked the first time we used the old gamemaker... Im sorry but Im not agree with you and I can see here a lot of people who thinks the same, Im not saying that the IDE is perfect, but is far from being not accesible
 
Dude to be honest I dont understand why you said the new IDE is so hard to understand... I dont remember anyone else saying the same stuff that you... and you are talking like what you are saying is the absolute truth and if you didnt get it at first it means nobody else will, I been using gamemaker for a long long time... and when I used for the first time GMS2 I felt like home, but a pretty nice upgraded home, with a lot of things to discover... but at the same time with the same feeling that gm always had for me... if anything I think the old IDE is way harder to understand than the current one... and Im sure than me and a lot of people watched tutorial videos to understand how everything worked the first time we used the old gamemaker... Im sorry but Im not agree with you and I can see here a lot of people who thinks the same, Im not saying that the IDE is perfect, but is far from being not accesible
I'm just loosing my words now, it's probably because of how my french messes with my english. What I'm trying to say is that when you save, you save with a logical icon button NOT WITH AN "X". X is to close, NOT save or accept!!!

Then, NO right clicks anywhere! I need to figure out what options are where in the preferences while as a simple right click in an area can bring a menu with a few shortcuts for preferences and other options to turn on or off (checked or not).

After, I cannot import an animated GIF image. That's just the basics, nothing needs to be said about that!

Then, I NEED to create GROUPS in my sprites because GM no longer has any backgrounds and sprites separated. Unless GMS2 decides to add a preference to always add groupes at a project creation, that just removes something I was using more than often and now we need to do extra steps for things that were already there before.

NOW when you put something in full screen, no other possible ways to bring it back to window mode. One user said to drag the tab down, but then again, it's no longer in its original window but changes its interface completely. That's just basics here! Why the heck change the interface when going back in window mode or why even bother NOT integrating a back to window button like any other windows in Windows, you know, the basics...

Then I point out a drawing problem when NO background is drawn and where my objects act like a custom paint bruch, I even, weirdly, added 4 images (unintentionnaly that is) in attachements to prove my point.

I also note a laggy isue when moving x+=4, etc... methode, one of the most overused methodes of moving arround. Its shaky and laggy. It's a BUG or something to fix!!!

I also mention there is no remove background option when importing an image, something that was there before. So I need AGAIN to do an extra step in opening the image, select with the wand tool the color I want to remove, but then again, NO option to remove ALL the color with the wand. It's a suggestion where I can LIVE with that extra step as I used old images BUT an option to add in the magic wand is a suggestion...

I also mention that developping an option in the preferences needs to be done by clicking on the arrow instead of on the title (the arrow is 16x16 while as the text is larger, I mean, I need to be FULL precise just to expand options while I could just click on the title to do the same.. That's IDE/GUI irritants. Just another suggestion to permit expanding trees by clicking or sodouble clicking on the titles.

Switching from dark to light color, as mentionned in the first post, makes me see a lame, white and gray, washed out color user interface while as before, I clicked on a blue icon to add an object, a red to add a sprite, a yellow speaker to add music and so on. Now, nothing, just plain nothing. Now you need to right click on the sections in the resource tree. For some people this is just crying for nothing but why complicate simple things. There's PLENTY of space up at the top for those overused actions that wer already there before!!! I do not use the black interface as I am used to the old programming colors in GM5. I even did a preset in GMS to have my colors look that way. Dark purple on black does not look good and is not easy to read. Those that are used to the dark theme, heck with it, it was introduces in GMS so these people are good to go, I... use the light theme so these are my impressions and seggestions.

I also not that groupes under draggable actions for objects should be in a colored global box instead of each individual button with a color background. Suggestion again, can I live with it? Of course, I mainly use scripts but I had one heck of a hard time figuring out what icon was to add a script AND I even messed up because I added a script while I needed to add a code. The icons fooled me because of No little green arrow to tell me I was adding a referenced script instead of i-object code (the white sheet). I mean, those are irritants and I still need time to search for actions to add because there's too much white icons in a white environement.

I'm NOT complaining on all the ways the GUI works but those are simple stuff easy to resolve and would have permit me to loose A LOT LESS time during my first initiation in GMS2 and a LOT LESS irritations. The IDE needs to be polished and this release is there for everything, game mechanics, games physics, programming problems or ideas AND IDE/GUI problems and suggestions. Please read the first post. I do not know how to make this clearer. GMS2 discouraged me to go back in on it's first run and I mention here why! I'm not blasting the effort they put in creating a better game making engine and I even boasted the new way to interact with the resource tree which I found brilliant. I searched for minutes trying to understand it BUT I figured it out AND was pleased with its ease!!!
 

makas

Member
Of everything you said I can agree with the close/save button thing, there is not an option as far as I know, to close for example a edited sprite and cancel the changes, that was useful, about the right click on things I see a lot of contextual menus with the rigth click, and also I can import animated gifs, and about the image editor is far superior to the older one, but I agree that there are several things missing, the ones you mentioned are some of them, Im also missing a free rotate tool that we had even if it was in a menu option, but yoyo games has said that for example that will be added, and Im sure a lot of other stuff you have described in your post will change... you have some valid points and suggestions but there are others that seems to be a little too much I think.
 

Nocturne

Friendly Tyrant
Forum Staff
Admin
Most of these complaints seem to me to be a case of you simply not "getting" the new IDE... This is NOT 1.4 and it is not an update to 1.4, it is a 100% new product. GMS2 has a completely new workflow paradigm and if you'd maybe stop thinking of it as an update to 1.4 and start thinking of it as completely new software (with it's inherent learning curve) then maybe you'd get along with it better? Most of your complaints are VERY subjective (like the DnD icons... Those have been MASSIVELY improved, and the issue here is simply that you haven't taken the time to learn the new icons and want it to be the same as before!) or are related to you not understanding the IDE.

You say you shouldn't have to do tutorials, and if you were a NEW user to GM then I'd maybe agree, but as an OLD user you are one of the main targets for all the new IDE tutorials!!!! We know that previous GM users are going to find some of the new features tough to get along with because they have been doing the same thing for the last 4 or 5 generations of the product. The habits you've learned are what you consider "natural" and "easy", when in reality they could be utter crap and it's just that you've grown accustomed to doing things in that way. You need to approach this with a more open mind and take some time to adjust and go through the tutorials. Use the product for a few weeks and then get back to us once you've gotten over the initial "this is not 1.4" shock... ;)
 
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Mike

nobody important
GMC Elder
Okay, no idea where your getting that you can't import an animated gif, theres like 4 different ways to do it.

Create a sprite and select "import"
Drag the image onto the main frame (just under the timeline)
Drag the GIF onto the desktop
Open up the image editor, drag the gif onto the main workspace

All these work fine. Perhaps the GIF you have is actually an MP4? They've changed gifs so they can now actually just contain movies, and we don't import these.


As to your comment about needing a tutorial. I disagree (obviously). New users always need a quick start - it's up to them whether they use it or not. Its not that it's totally un-initiative, many have gotten along without it, but if your struggling,then it doesn't seem uncalled for to way the 3 minute intro movie that explains the main concepts.

For existing users coming from 1.x. This is not 1.x, we aren't trying to remake 1.x - what would be the point? If you want that UI, keep using it! 1.x has lots of issues that we're looking to fix and because of this existing users will come in and may well get stuck as we've change the workflow - for the better we feel. But this means you may be worse off that some new users, as you have an expectation that it's going to be exactly the same workflow, and it's not. So again, watch the intro video IF you get stuck. There's even some very quick tutorials that will get you up and running pretty quickly.

1.x was great and I did love it, but some of the workflow stunk. Things like using the resource tree to add objects to the room saves on space, and means you have better organisation of things your going to edit with due to the new "views" you can create. But this may be confusing to existing users as they're looking for the horrible old "objects" panel to add stuff to.

Change is hard, I'm personally well aware of this, and I'm actually willing to see any part of the IDE change based on user feedback. IF we get lots of users saying the same thing, we'll take a look and see what we can do. The CTRL+Wheel to zoom or example. many users just want to use the wheel to zoom. We've now seen enough people request this, and although I think it's utterly horrible, we'll add it in as a preference.

As an existing user, you DO have to get used to the new workflow, and that can be jarring - and I understand that, but I while I know there are still some issues to solve, I believe the new flow is far, FAR superior to the old one, and I'd ask folk like yourself to stick with it.


Lastly...Skins. Users have already started doing new skins, and we'll continue to add more. These are just the first 2. We needed a light and dark one, and we like them although sure, like any art - not everyone will. We expect there to be a huge number of skins available from users as unlike 1.x, it's fully skinable.
 

Tsa05

Member
Undo or use GM's integration with repositories. In cases of a large re-write, make a copy. In another topic, Mike described how the undo capabilities are greatly beefed up, so you can change something, test it (without closing the code), and undo if needed. Once you like it, leave the code window and move on--the code is saved. Using versioning in a repository is the more rigorous way to go in cases where you want to make breaking changes, save your code, and revert later.
 
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risa401

Guest
I'm just loosing my words now, it's probably because of how my french messes with my english. What I'm trying to say is that when you save, you save with a logical icon button NOT WITH AN "X". X is to close, NOT save or accept!!!

Then, NO right clicks anywhere! I need to figure out what options are where in the preferences while as a simple right click in an area can bring a menu with a few shortcuts for preferences and other options to turn on or off (checked or not).

After, I cannot import an animated GIF image. That's just the basics, nothing needs to be said about that!

Then, I NEED to create GROUPS in my sprites because GM no longer has any backgrounds and sprites separated. Unless GMS2 decides to add a preference to always add groupes at a project creation, that just removes something I was using more than often and now we need to do extra steps for things that were already there before.

NOW when you put something in full screen, no other possible ways to bring it back to window mode. One user said to drag the tab down, but then again, it's no longer in its original window but changes its interface completely. That's just basics here! Why the heck change the interface when going back in window mode or why even bother NOT integrating a back to window button like any other windows in Windows, you know, the basics...

Then I point out a drawing problem when NO background is drawn and where my objects act like a custom paint bruch, I even, weirdly, added 4 images (unintentionnaly that is) in attachements to prove my point.

I also note a laggy isue when moving x+=4, etc... methode, one of the most overused methodes of moving arround. Its shaky and laggy. It's a BUG or something to fix!!!

I also mention there is no remove background option when importing an image, something that was there before. So I need AGAIN to do an extra step in opening the image, select with the wand tool the color I want to remove, but then again, NO option to remove ALL the color with the wand. It's a suggestion where I can LIVE with that extra step as I used old images BUT an option to add in the magic wand is a suggestion...

I also mention that developping an option in the preferences needs to be done by clicking on the arrow instead of on the title (the arrow is 16x16 while as the text is larger, I mean, I need to be FULL precise just to expand options while I could just click on the title to do the same.. That's IDE/GUI irritants. Just another suggestion to permit expanding trees by clicking or sodouble clicking on the titles.

Switching from dark to light color, as mentionned in the first post, makes me see a lame, white and gray, washed out color user interface while as before, I clicked on a blue icon to add an object, a red to add a sprite, a yellow speaker to add music and so on. Now, nothing, just plain nothing. Now you need to right click on the sections in the resource tree. For some people this is just crying for nothing but why complicate simple things. There's PLENTY of space up at the top for those overused actions that wer already there before!!! I do not use the black interface as I am used to the old programming colors in GM5. I even did a preset in GMS to have my colors look that way. Dark purple on black does not look good and is not easy to read. Those that are used to the dark theme, heck with it, it was introduces in GMS so these people are good to go, I... use the light theme so these are my impressions and seggestions.

I also not that groupes under draggable actions for objects should be in a colored global box instead of each individual button with a color background. Suggestion again, can I live with it? Of course, I mainly use scripts but I had one heck of a hard time figuring out what icon was to add a script AND I even messed up because I added a script while I needed to add a code. The icons fooled me because of No little green arrow to tell me I was adding a referenced script instead of i-object code (the white sheet). I mean, those are irritants and I still need time to search for actions to add because there's too much white icons in a white environement.

I'm NOT complaining on all the ways the GUI works but those are simple stuff easy to resolve and would have permit me to loose A LOT LESS time during my first initiation in GMS2 and a LOT LESS irritations. The IDE needs to be polished and this release is there for everything, game mechanics, games physics, programming problems or ideas AND IDE/GUI problems and suggestions. Please read the first post. I do not know how to make this clearer. GMS2 discouraged me to go back in on it's first run and I mention here why! I'm not blasting the effort they put in creating a better game making engine and I even boasted the new way to interact with the resource tree which I found brilliant. I searched for minutes trying to understand it BUT I figured it out AND was pleased with its ease!!!
The only thing I kind of agree with you is the X button. It was not apparent at the first time, but I realized it in a few seconds. I really think that you really hate getting used to things. Otherwise, I completely disagree on EVERYTHING (just making fun of you CAPSLOCKING so much) you've said. If the product doesn't suit you, just don't use it. Done, not gonna really do a long comment here (I hate them).
 

makas

Member
Undo or use GM's integration with repositories. In cases of a large re-write, make a copy. In another topic, Mike described how the undo capabilities are greatly beefed up, so you can change something, test it (without closing the code), and undo if needed. Once you like it, leave the code window and move on--the code is saved. Using versioning in a repository is the more rigorous way to go in cases where you want to make breaking changes, save your code, and revert later.
Im talking about very small changes, missclick kind of changes, for example editing an sprite by mistake in GMS1 you can just close the windows and the saves werent changed
 

Aviox

Member
@David Richard ,
I'm sorry you're struggling with the learning curve. But I hope you can take a deep breath and regain some patience. Learning and re-learning can be a frustrating process, but so far, I find them worth learning!

Some thoughts you may find useful:
  • You can use keyboard shortcuts to add resources. You don't need to right click -- alt+S adds a sprite, alt+O adds a new object, etc.
  • From a new tileset, you CAN add a new sprite. there's a "new sprite" button that automatically links to the tileset. This exists in objects as well
  • I haven't seen any "laggy or glitchy" movement like you described with basic keyboard movement. It looks the same as it always has on my end. Your issue must be elsewhere. (I'm not saying you haven't encountered a bug, just that it looks correct on my end)

I personally find most of the workflow changes great, although I'm still getting used to them. Middle click jump-tos are one of my favorite additions. I might have some suggestions, but I'll add them in a separate post later on.
 

Mike

nobody important
GMC Elder
@Mike is there a way to close an edited sprite, piece of code, or any other resource, and cancel de changes?
Undo everything and close it. Undo should work as expected now, so as long as the window is open, you are able to undo your changes.
 
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ParodyKnaveBob

Guest
Salut, M Richard. Fwiw, I 100% agree that the less UI consistency, the less UX. It sounds like (without my getting to see it) that there's inconsistency on what happens upon closing certain things, and if that's true, then yes, that's the kind of thing I'd report as a bug.

It's amazing how people focus on details when all we are talking about is general logics.
Indeed. Notice that I only quoted your one passage of text, and I made sure to add this disclaimer:

I can't put my fingers on GMS2 yet to give tangible feedback
I merely saw one big point being discussed on which I wanted to add some observations, thus I did (including the acknowledgement of various OSes having various versions of iconize | maximize/restore | close). In doing so, I saw some other more general things packed in which I also wanted to address (including the issue of "when is something core or not?").

Actually, on the note of "when is something core or not?" First, you wrote, "As for Windows 7 to Windows 8 is an upgrade and Windows 8 to 10 is an upgrade, well Windows stays Windows. Same thing here GameMaker should stay GameMaker." The insinuation is Windows stayed Windows, but GM did not stay GM. Then, you wrote in a later single post, "Windows is still Windows even though its core changed. I still recognise my Windows even though I skipped from Windows XP to Windows 10," and, "the major differences in the IDE from 1 to 2 are just to big that I feel like jumping from Windows 7 to Windows 8 where I lose all my tools. To me the IDE of GMS2 is like passing from Windows 7 to 8." You're literally saying in one post that Win7->Win8 was a bigger change (akin to GMS1->GMS2) than was WinXP->Win10 -- and in another post, Win stayed Win from 7->8 and 8->10, but (via insinuation) GM did not stay GM (from S1->S2). When you state contradictions like that, it's time to step back from the emotional arguments and re-assess your analogies.

Otherwise, there were things you said that I may very well agree with if true, but, and that's a huge but, I can't actually use GMS2 atm to test if true or not. (I.e. & e.g., @Aviox says some drawbacks you listed were incorrect. I would never have know that otherwise. That's why even casual "debate" is good: "He who is first in his own cause seems just, but his neighbor comes and searches him.") Therefore, no, I can't and won't much comment on other things. "A man who answers a matter before he hears it, it is a shame and a folly to him." $:^ ]

Regards,
Bob

P.S. I never used GM4, but with GM5, I needed the manual and the official written tutorials to have any idea what I was doing. It was a completely different environment to me vs. programming in the various BASIC languages I'd used, and HTML (and that crazy new CSS) for that matter. I don't know if GM4 were so different from GM5 (changing the core??) that I wouldn't've needed a manual nor tutorials for GM4, but I'm just saying, ... read the manual? ... learning about how to use a new piece of software is part and parcel with using it. I even hear GMS2's manual has a Quick Start Guide. $:^ ]
 
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For the GIF part, It's a GIF I created back in GM4. I created a sprite from GM4's sprite editor and exported that sequence as a GIF. Back then, Game Maker did not support transparent backgrounds, therefor, it used a color as transparency. SO, in GMS, while importing, you could remove background, see screenshots below. Now, the option is not there anymore. I have also included a sample GIF image for tests.

Sample GIF image (use this GIF as tests, it's not animated in a loop but it is animated)


Removing backgrounds from GMS which is no longer available in GMS2. Screenshot showing original image with "Remove Background" unchecked.


Now with "Remove Background" check AND the results in GMS' sprite editor. Image imported successfully. in GMS2, nothing happens.



As for the Windows stuff that people tak about. I think it's just not worth debating this here as that was not the point of this post. But in small, these are some things that characterises Windows:
  • Top right corner "close", "minimise" and "max/window" buttons
  • Start menu
  • My computer icon or This computer or This PC. Always that same blue monitor icon even though it has been modernized.
  • Control Panel
  • Windows Updates
  • Task bar and notification Area
These are just some points that are not necessarly unique to Windows but are recognizable. For example, you do not see a dock in Windows. It's just not there. That's under MAC. As for the step between Windows (whatever) to Windows 8, well, the removed that good old Start Menu in Windows 8 which the braught back in Windows 10. That's why I mention that and why some things may seem incoherent, but you need to understand the logics.

OH and ParodyKnaveBob, before throwing Bible verses in a Game Making forum, please make sure you are not speaking to a Christian that gave his life to God AND, make sure the context of your verses are studied and placed right in the correct context. I won't start a religious debate here, but that was not the place to throw these. PM me if you want to start speaking about those kind of things. There's a time AND place for everything.

I used this forum to mention problems and uncomfortabilities with the new GMS IDE and core functions. I hope that my screenshots will help a bit. PLease excuse if I seem rude or rough in my words, that's certainly not my goal as I love GM and their product and just want to help in making it better.
 
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ParodyKnaveBob

Guest
Heads up: your first big image came up blank. Otherwise, I don't recall where now, but I'm quite sure Mike or Russell mentioned the "remove background" feature needed to return, yes. $:^ ]

(Finally, the proverbs -- general life wisdom -- were in context: general life.)
 
Heads up: your first big image came up blank. Otherwise, I don't recall where now, but I'm quite sure Mike or Russell mentioned the "remove background" feature needed to return, yes. $:^ ]

(Finally, the proverbs -- general life wisdom -- were in context: general life.)
You still came back with it publically... I won't go further into this as this is not a religious forum. But thanks for the blank image. I was connected with my Google account, that's why I saw it. Now I changed the image link to the public album. This should be OK now.

And, as I said, the remove background IS indeed something that needs to return but the fact that the GIF I submitted still does not load in GMS2 is an issue. I wanted to give people a chance to have a gif to test the import with that does not yet work in GMS2.
 
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ParodyKnaveBob

Guest
You're welcome -- but your image still doesn't show for me. $:^ [ In this window, it appears blocked, thus I tried loading this thread in a private window (to kill all caching), and it appears broken instead.

(And yes, although I've no problem with going into whatever off-topic details in private, or even in the public off-topic forum, I did publically address the basic gist of your public address of my on-topic public post. ~nod~)
 

xot

GMLscripter
GMC Elder
My first sprite importation, a GIF file. GMS2 was unable to import my file.
All these work fine. Perhaps the GIF you have is actually an MP4?
I created a sprite from GM4's sprite editor and exported that sequence as a GIF.
I can't speak for the abilities of GM:Studio 2's GIF import, but I can say that legacy Game Maker's GIF export has never exported standard animated GIF's. They have a history of not working with other software.
 

rwkay

GameMaker Staff
GameMaker Dev.
If you are having problems with any GIFs then report a bug and attach the GIF to it so we can fix it....

This is why we added skinnable interface so you can change them to your hearts content - many UI designers would disagree with your assessments though, but it is your choice you can change it.

Russell
 
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renex

Guest
They have a history of not working with other software.
I use Microsoft Gif Animator to "fix" them. This is why I keep a copy of GM7 lite around, I use it to build gifs lol.

In retrospect I really need to update my toolset.
I don't know if GM4 were so different from GM5
Actually the biggest change was GM4. GM5 simply expanded upon it, but they pretty much looked the same. I started with 5.3a and the manual was an invaluable learning tool.

upload_2016-11-9_12-51-40.png
upload_2016-11-9_13-5-38.png

As much as I like how Studio still looks like that, I acknowledge it's a dated format. And nothing is stopping me from using the classic 'game maker' background in GMS2 >:)

you can change it.
That's pretty cool, because I was also confused at first by the x buttons confirming things.

The sock ruse was a DISTACTION! GMS2 have the green ticks.
 
I decided to add a few screenshots to show what I mean by hard to access IDE preferences and how to simplify it for everyone. Not that it's almost undoable, it's just not intuitive the way it works for now, the IDE does not seem responsive to our needs enough.

GameMaker Studio 2   v2.0.1.33 - GMS2-Test-20161109-135337.png
GameMaker Studio 2   v2.0.1.33 - GMS2-Test_-20161109-135545.png

Another idea, you'll pretty much guess what I mean from now on...And you can add those menus pretty much anywhere that it could be missing.
GameMaker Studio 2   v2.0.1.33 - GMS2-Test-20161109-135410.png
 
This is why we added skinnable interface so you can change them to your hearts content - many UI designers would disagree with your assessments though, but it is your choice you can change it.

Russell
Just to let you know about that skinnable interface. It's indeed, fun to have but take the preferences dialogue. There is an "OK" and a "Cancel" button at the bottom. So, with all those weird "X" reaction, what will it do when I close the preferences dialogue using the "X", will it cancel or OK. In this situation, my "check mark" is maybe not even relevant but that's the only icon you use for closing the windows. Its a surprise to everyone to what will happen clicking on that button. As mentionned earlier, some places, it does not give you any warning closes everything without saving. In other places it simply closes everthing which is already saved and in the preferences window, it cancels your changes. So what do we need to expect from a button that randomly does what the programmer behind it decided to do with it???
 
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RealityShifter

Guest
You know, a LOT of what you are talking about is resolved by checking out the IDE tutorials and the manual (which it seems you haven't done). Things like changing the position of the resource tree and tilesets etc... are all explained in them (yes you CAN dock the resource tree to any side you want), and they were designed to teach you the basics of the IDE. GMS2 is NOT an update to 1.4, it is a different product and as such it works in different ways which you will need to learn, so don't use it expecting it to be like 1.4 as it's not. For example, the fullscreen code editor can be made small again by simply clicking the tab it's on and ragging it back into the workspace area, which is why it doesn't have a button. :)
I for one have looked through the videos, tutorials and manual and cannot find a way to move selected tiles. It just seems like you would be able to move a selection of tiles over 1 grid space for example. But the only way to do it is really round about. Do you know how Noct? or anyone else maybe?
 
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