[Graphics] Dynamically transforming ellipses

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tetris_mess

Member
Could I please have some advice, not so much about abstracting the types relevant to the geometry of circles, and modeling the transformations of ellipses, and not so much how to code it, or that I need to be equipped with any methods, but does anyone have some fresh ideas, that might add some brevity to the dialogue I'm having with myself?

It would really help out -me and another coder are very interested in the subject, so if anyone has any suggestions, it is a goal we'd like to implement.
 

Sybok

Member
Wow, so much, uhh, programming knowledge just flooded! haha. That's funny. Check this out fellow tech enthusiasts!

A good pragrammer:

1. Someone who understands the turing halting problem

2 Who is grasping the following static positions:

Standard Models(mathematical averages)
mathematical/logical/rational definitions and values and their methods
run-time and biases and complexity & systems theory
normal weights & distributions
time
and you never giving up

3. This equals good habits and clean code

You guys(as in women and men) are all swell
This is how to become a programming god, though
God mode disabled? 🤣

It's always a big call to say you are a programming God, if you plan to ask questions from mere mortals like us later on.
 

tetris_mess

Member
I'll give you the other half of the horror story in a private message as usual, but could you please elaborate if you have anything relevant to say?

There are so many statistical measures, and I'm just trying to expand my perspective and work with someone else who is willing to bend mentally in terms of these transformations and how they can be displayed on a screen.

Sybok: It is way off-topic, but do you really think people who are interested in programming should see things at face value? I know you don't.

Anyone please, I'm trying to get inspired about numerical analysis and I'm someone who codes in GML.
 
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Nocturne

Friendly Tyrant
Forum Staff
Admin
Could I please have some advice, not so much about abstracting the types relevant to the geometry of circles, and modeling the transformations of ellipses, and not so much how to code it, or that I need to be equipped with any methods, but does anyone have some fresh ideas, that might add some brevity to the dialogue I'm having with myself?
What does this even mean? Could you perhaps explain your problem without so much rhetoric?
 

tetris_mess

Member
I don't want the following statement to sound harsh and I'm putting it as delicately as possible: I'm not a principled person or a simpleton, and I'm just looking for sound advice. Please also grasp that I do spend a lot of time pondering the minutia. How opinions form a basis is so meta.

So, I'm just getting ready to code. I will rework what I'm thinking if necessary. I'm referring to all the properties an ellipse has, like pi, a radius, a diameter and a circumference, and the different areas that can be integrated at the level of computation(numerical analysis), and how to apply that.

I know I might seem way off track to some people because so many methods for drawing ellipses are already built into GameMaker. I'm building my own types, though, and I'm going to use the drawing methods to draw shapes and update the screen with the method for drawing one pixel at a time -while sorting through the data that accumulates before I process it with a script that uses the two drawing methods I need.

I feel like I'm all set, and I want to be pointed in a direction I can be more creative in, if anyone has any ideas. I also feel like a creative process shouldn't be destroyed, and anything anyone has to say is important, because of what might come up as a result later when all I see are the reasons to begin development now. Full disclosure: I'm not trying to spoof some ideas, and I need some real input if anyone has any sort of information they think would be useful at all.

The questions I'm asking myself are: "How should I group together different iterations of the result that I'm seeing on the screen so that a coherent ladder and chains of logic climb up through some sort of level that expresses a balance of chaos and order?", and "What rules do other people think I should apply, that of which would position elements on the screen so that I may entice viewers?"

EDIT: I wish you all really didn't need to vent so much, but I do understand. Anyone else want to provide some input?

EDIT: One thing I know I need to add here is that I'm thinking a lot about random events that take pieces of a result and how they are linked together dynamically in run-time.
 
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Nocturne

Friendly Tyrant
Forum Staff
Admin
EDIT: I wish you all really didn't need to vent so much, but I do understand. Anyone else want to provide some input?
I'm not venting. I'm requesting clarity and brevity in your posts so that they make some sort of sense. Tbh, your posts are incredibly difficult to read and borderline incoherent... I say this to help YOU, as you will get very few replies - and even fewer that can help you with your issue - while using this verbose rhetoric.

The questions I'm asking myself are: "How should I group together different iterations of the result that I'm seeing on the screen so that a coherent ladder and chains of logic climb up through some sort of level that expresses a balance of chaos and order?", and "What rules do other people think I should apply, that of which would position elements on the screen so that I may entice viewers?"
This, to me, is absolute nonsense, and there is zero requirement for writing like that... and believe me, I know what I'm talking about as I am a technical writer by profession. Brevity, clarity and expressing the maximum information with the fewest possible words is the name of the game here, and the only way you'll probably get any help. As it stands right now, after three posts in this topic, I still have very little idea what your issue is or how to help you.
 

vdweller

Member
"How should I group together different iterations of the result that I'm seeing on the screen
OK I think I am getting somewhere...
so that a coherent ladder and chains of logic climb up through some sort of level that expresses a balance of chaos and order?"
Nope, lost it.

Bro...what you say may or may not make sense in your head. If it does make sense to you, well, bravo, and more power to you.

I personally 100% assure you that what you say makes no sense whatsoever for the rest of this forum.

I am, without a trace of irony, very willing to accept that we are just a bunch of idiots who cannot comprehend your ideas and that you are, perhaps, a lot of levels above and beyond us, so that we merely perceive a written projection of the higher dimensions of thoughts you possess and idiotically dismiss it as incoherent ramblings.

Either way, whether it is that you just have an overactive brain or we are just a bunch of morons who don't get you, you will have to concede at some point that this current method of communication gets nowhere.

You keep posting things and leave everyone utterly perplexed, and in addition you inadvertently contribute to adding "noise" to the signal of what constitutes this forum's purpose, that is providing assistance to people with very specific problems regarding quite down-to-earth matters like "why doesn't my sprite animate". There may be threads discussing more abstract concepts but as it is now you wouldn't get any luckier in there either.

So please, if you believe that the issue lies within your side of the field, at least explain to the moderators what it is and they will help accommodate your needs to the best of their ability (maybe create an "abstract philosophy" subsection?).

If, on the other hand, you believe that the problem lies with the rest of us, then please make a valiant effort to drop down to our level so that we will at least have a chance at engaging in some sort of conversation.

Kind regards,

Emilios
 

Homunculus

Member
The questions I'm asking myself are: "How should I group together different iterations of the result that I'm seeing on the screen so that a coherent ladder and chains of logic climb up through some sort of level that expresses a balance of chaos and order?", and "What rules do other people think I should apply, that of which would position elements on the screen so that I may entice viewers?"
I think that you should consider the superposition of the iterations in the visibile screen field as opposed to the ladder of logical possibilities it leads to. Balancing chaos and order is a difficult thing to do if you do not provide a coherent ladder for climbing and chaining.
Does this answer your question?

If you do not understand my answer, consider that this is more or less a reflection of how I understand your question. If you do understand my answer, I don't know what you are talking about.
 
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tetris_mess

Member
@Nocturne Okay, I get it, public friend #1 over here. Check this out. I'm just too high up on the ladder, and I will come back down. I spend time with people who have so many different levels of communication(i.e. pointed discussions, ethical discussion, emotional discussions, logical discussions, closed and open debates, tabletop discussions, like so many different kinds of discussion)

1. I'm going to draw lots of ellipses(lots of them)
2. I'm going to only use two methods in the drawing class(the draw pixel method and the method that updates the screen)
3. I'm going to use structs to typecast properties of a circle
4. I'm going to write scripts that carry results over to be displayed on the screen(that iterate through previous results and transform the values that go into the domain of different scripts where random events occur and display different shapes at different frequencies that I will setup up with timing modules and analyze the results of different frequencies to warp the fabric of everything being drawn on the screen dynamically in runtime as if space and time were a random occurrence being displayed to the viewer
5. It is going to be so psy...che...delic

I was totally amped when someone posted another thread about what I'm kind of trying to do. They had half of the result I was looking for so I thought I would open another thread and not hijack that one.

@Homunculus - Thank you, I'm just trying to be a little abstract where I'm at, but I'm capable of coming down to Earth.

@vdweller - I don't have those idiosyncracies

Might I also add:

Fact 1: People try to hide that they are covering up the truth about themselves because of their insecurities
Fact 2: People try to cover their tracks by framing the truth or they try to hide from others who would venture after them because they know someone else feels insecure
Fact 3: People don’t believe this isn’t the truth and it shows in their behavior depending on if someone is being honest or dishonest
Fact 4: People who venture after others who they think need to be influenced, persuaded, convinced, or compelled think others are hiding the truth and aren’t seeing the facts - and see those people as a threat
Fact 5: People who go overboard do so because they didn’t see the complications in their lives that concern order and their behavior and they eventually become more irresponsible the more they can avoid the complications in their lives
Fact 6: People don’t clearly show signs of guilt in their manner and their bodies framework
Fact 7: People express they feel guilt when there is openness and people who are closed off avoid anywhere that people are open
Fact 8: Avoidance and isolation isn’t where anyone who doesn’t discern enough about themselves would determine what will be an escape for them
Fact 9: It is important for people and all those who don’t work at different levels of the community who support order to know the signs and indications of creative and destructive behaviors
Fact 10: The finality of anyone’s decision is in knowing that they did something wrong or not, and that they know when they knew too much risk, and if they couldn't make others safe, and that everyone is in danger if they would continue to put other people in danger, with or without knowing the risks involved.

These facts are what are going to chamber the events and chaos has to be accepted by order. They aren't going to fracture into anything that will seizure on the screen.

Sure, too many people don't think this is how space-time is rendered, and I'm not trying to show them how it does on a screen. I just think this would be so surreal.
 
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tetris_mess

Member
@otterZ Thanks, you are too modest. This is going to be a monster to program. Sybok has been really helpful and I'm going to stay in touch with him so you all know I'm doing okay. I'm going to get started on some basic elements of AI in a pretty simple game, and I've been getting a buzz from a lot of people to build a puzzle game. I'll make sure to post some artwork in my status occasionally just so everyone can filter into any ideas I'm having, so if they are interested, they can also do the same. I also have some websites to build and a children's book to write. I'm going to write the children's book first. It's just going to be about avoiding stabby people and not going to jail.

It'll explain that when someone has nothing, they don't feel safe, and that when someone has nothing, that's because they think someone else that had something took advantage of them(and not someone else who also had nothing who felt they were being taken advantage of). I can only manage to work about 25 hours a week, and the rest of my time is walking around to check and make sure all the neighbors are safe.
 

O.Stogden

Member
I don't mean to be rude by this, but have you met with a medical professional about your mental-state? Not meant as an insult, but you mentioned in another post you had seizures, and you seem to flip between making some sense and not making any sense at all.

Likewise sometimes you're incredibly poor-mannered without provocation (https://forum.yoyogames.com/index.php?threads/tilemap-collision-problem.73458/#post-433067).

You're only liking posts that make as little sense as your own, and responding negatively to those that are put forward clearly.

Not going to post anymore in here as it's way off-topic, but I did just want to put that forward.

1. I'm going to draw lots of ellipses(lots of them)
2. I'm going to only use two methods in the drawing class(the draw pixel method and the method that updates the screen)
Also I don't understand this method of doing it, but I feel there's a better way.
 

tetris_mess

Member
@O.Stogden - Some people have special needs, and what you need is more self-discipline. Order also means showing kindness, respect, and being modest, so that people are always being polite, and they are always having manners. Conformity, compliance, obedience, persuasiveness, and being compelling and convincing, are what people do when they have orders, and you are just a perfect example of someone who didn't read facts 1 thru 10 that I posted before you decided to add your two-cents, and I'm thankful very much that you did. Thanks for being benignly passive.

Why would I not use those two methods? I'm drawing one pixel at a time at 60 fps?

Also, if you are someone with special needs, why don't you know we also have to support normal people who aren't disabled?
 
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Catastrophe

Member
Honestly it feels like tetris is using this website and playing us for laughs:


I'll pretend I undestand the issue for personal amusement.

If you want to make it look like the player is tripping ballz with super random ellipses, I mean you could have three variables controlling time randomness, shape randomness and color randomness. Then for each new ellipse, alter the range of possible variation from the last ellipse in drawing speed/color/size based on the current variables, and alter those variables every now and then. So e.g. if speed = 1, color = 0, size = 0.5, each new ellipse would vary dramatically in speed form the last ellipse, stay the same color, and change width and height a little. And maybe every 10 ellipses change one of the 3 variables.

If you want a "whoa dude, trippy ellipses are getting wavy" look, I think you'd want to draw it to a surface and apply a shader that has that sort of effect. I think you can apply shaders to surfaces anyways. That said, there's plenty of "warp space" shaders but "warp space and time" shaders are hard to come by.
 
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tetris_mess

Member
It would be nice if there was order to this thread, and there is a huge learning curve to understanding what I'm doing. I'm drawing, using formulas of a circle, and bending the information that is a result of these equations with integral formulas and trigonometric functions -and adding a little randomness, that is sent to a script, processing chunks of information that are put back together to form a sequence of information output to the screen, that is fed back into a loop, and keeps changing what is displayed in different ways dynamically, based on rules I can change to display different animations.

People are owed some useful input if anyone would like to continue to participate. People who are just going to be like so many people who try to discount my work because I do a lot more than sit in front of a computer screen, and I really spend the time necessary to make coding a really productive process, are welcome in this thread, but don't take shots at me. It really is sad and has no bearing on my life that you wouldn't accord with any serious level of contact that engages another person. Anyone would just make fun of me and see things at face value must have an inferiority complex.

Personally, I'm learning a lot about where the people that are active on the threads aren't more capable than spreading every word they would vomit out on to the web, and the insecurities they have with other computer scientists are taking over the thread. That is cool that you all would like everyone to focus on what is more fundamental in GameMaker, and what you think is relevant to game design, and I see how much you are all helpful with other people and giant list of problems that come up in the threads.

Personally, I've got my mind blown by what I'm doing. I was even thinking about adding some sort of recursive script that sorts the random information I'm gathering every other 60 frames, just to give a little more rhythm to the changes going on in the animation, and I'm focusing mainly on how patterns and shapes will flow on the display.

Since you don't have the time, understand that Homunculus provided the only coherent response, and that otterZ was actually tangential in addressing the topic, but what he said wasn't totally irrelevant. I didn't open the thread to educate people, and I'm sorry this is over most of your heads, or you are just throwing gabs. I don't know any of you that well, or why you would have a reason to just play dumb, but I'm well aware of how you are people who toy around with people to complicate what is dysfunctional in the world even more, so that you continue to see inconsistencies in other people's results while clinging to something when you are afraid of seeing change(whether or not you are aware of it).

I would suggest sorting out facts in your lives, because it is the most important part of your portfolios. Start with fact 1 here, you are a member in the GameMaker community and you are posting gabs in a thread that are irrelevant to the topic. It will bring you back to the 10 facts I posted that are going to chamber events in a process drawing different elements of a shape that are transformed over time as each frame is updated by the computer.

Why don't you guys give critical thinking a shot instead of feeling like someone knows you are the worst people alive?

Oh, you want to know what else I did yesterday, I found hacks in the self-checkout stands at the grocery stores, and informed the frontdesk about all the ways people would try to shoplift while anyone was supervising a line of people, knowing how to distract someone when using the buggy software, to grab her attention, or place items in a bag without paying for them, because they wouldn't be detected when placing their groceries in the bag, and then the person could just walk out with merchandise they didn't pay for. I'm just always viewing different sources and knowing my own, so I'm always encapsulating data and seeing how a result goes back from what we all accomplish, and how results are sorted back into our selves because of our own decisions or lack of full consideration, and filter through your own data I collected, because that is what a smart person does.

People have to be able to step into each other's results and not try to fit their projections of what the truth is, into what the past isn't, before the truth is even understood. No one can get the result that they just want, and try to change the facts to get that result. Everyone has the current facts, and the results stay the same. All people can do is continue sorting through those facts un they get the same result others are.
 
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tetris_mess

Member
@Nidoking - Know that I was waiting for someone to inherit that I'm trying to generate rough changes that are accepted by smooth transformations. Why do you take projections of what the past is and try to fit it into what the past isn't? I fear for you.

Read through all my posts and take note of the following: People have to be able to step into each other's results and not try to fit their projections of what the truth is, into what the past isn't, before the truth is even understood. No one can get the result that they just want, and try to change the facts to get that result. Everyone has the current facts, and the results stay the same. All people can do is continue sorting through those facts until they get the same result others are.

You refuse to see the result that is right in front of everyone's face, and you are trying to change it. Go ahead and post it in your wall and be demeaning to anyone who sees the proof here. Conformity, compliance, obedience, persuasiveness, and being compelling and convincing, are what people do when they have orders, because they are consistent with the facts, so let's all see the code of conduct in the forums stands, and continue to treat each other fairly from this point.

People don't have to sort through the facts on their own, and if they can't sort through the facts, beginning with the facts that already exist, nothing becomes apparent to them in any scientifically based result, and they just remain intuitive, as others continue to be intellectual. People's intuitions aren't proceeding to have any sort of real application to any real solution, and all they are lacking is their intellect. Until people can intellectualize for themselves, people are seeing different results in their lives.

Note that I did mention statistical measures(and not curves) and please stop being both semantic and pedantic, Nidoking.
 
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I'm drawing, using formulas of a circle, and bending the information that is a result of these equations with integral formulas and trigonometric functions -and adding a little randomness, that is sent to a script, processing chunks of information that are put back together to form a sequence of information output to the screen, that is fed back into a loop, and keeps changing what is displayed in different ways dynamically, based on rules I can change to display different animations.
You start out with the general formula for an ellipse:
Code:
x = a * cos(t);
y = b * sin(t);
This gives you three parameters (a, b and t) and yields the x and y coordinates of a given point of the ellipse. To have the full ellipse, you then calculate with t ranging from 0 to 360 degrees (at a resolution you can tweak).

From this point on let's assume you then have a general function you apply to each coordinate (denoted f(x, y)) that is composed of the integral formulas and trigonometric functions you mention you apply for "bending" the information. Then you'd get something like
Code:
f(a * cos(t), b * sin(t))
You could then store the results for each calculated coordinate each step in some data structure/array, along with the inputs. With this information you could make each step's inputs depend on the inputs and outputs of the previous step (which also allows you to do statistical analysis of the results). Then you can have an extra parameter d which could be the random factor you mention you apply. I'm not sure where you want to apply this factor, but I would assume it is to some of the inputs described before. This factor itself could be randomized each step and stored, if other values depend on it.

So in the end you'd have some f(a * cos(t) * d, b * sin(t) * d) that represents your ellipse, or to put it another way:
Code:
g(a, b, d, t) = f(a * cos(t) * d, b * sin(t) * d)
Which can be translated to a script easily.

For rendering, you could then just iterate from 0 to 360 for the t input value and call g for each iteration. You then either draw a pixel at that location or draw a line between any two consecutive locations (in case your resolution isn't fine enough to make it look like an ellipse with just the pixels). Another option is to feed the coordinates into a shader that performs the rendering. You can optionally try to smooth out the rendered line in case it looks too jagged.

Note that this assumes that:
a) I actually understood what you meant, and
b) The rules you want to configure can be expressed as the inputs described. If your rules are actually f then that would need to itself be an extra input for g;
 

tetris_mess

Member
@Rui Rosário - that absolutely made my whole day.

If anyone has any sort of feedback about the rules I want to configure, please drop your suggestions here.

Also, I'm really going to put all the properties of a circle into all these variables.

I have to go out for a little, to look some people who are pretty judgmental in the face. Thanks for your help @Homunculus @otterZ and @Rui Rosário

I'm also writing a vector class and I'm going to write a class for complex numbers.

I think this is going to be hidden dimensions with binoculars.
 
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otterZ

Member
Just a big thank you Nocturne for all your efforts in making the GM forum a great place.

I edited out one comment I made on this thread as it wasn't helping matters, as I got carried away with the nonsense. You must have to deal with all kinds of random stuff to keep the forum free from trolling, people posting in the wrong sections, calming down disputes etc . . . I'm relatively new to this forum, but just to let you know that your efforts and other moderators' efforts are appreciated.
 

EvanSki

King of Raccoons
Ironically:

plural noun: ellipses
  1. the omission from speech or writing of a word or words that are superfluous or able to be understood from contextual clues.

Anyway,
What exactly are you using all the calculations for? From what I understand, you want to just draw ellipses, why the need for such calculations for doing so? ( I've never personally had to figure out ellipses so forgive me if i'm lost here. )
 

Catastrophe

Member
He wants to draw them a pixel at a time in real time I believe, so it's like an animation. So you'd need to use the actual formulas rather than draw_ellipse
 

Amon

Member
@tetris_mess

I've read your posts and googled what I know you are like. https://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10-things/10-curses-of-the-analytical-thinker/

It's not a bad thing. You can't help it as it is you. I for one understand your posts and what you are getting at. I don't find you weird, psychotic or in need of mental health help.

I've posted this to let you know that there is nothing wrong with you. There is nothing wrong with you.

If there was you would likely not be here or even exist.
 

O.Stogden

Member
@tetris_mess

I've read your posts and googled what I know you are like. https://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10-things/10-curses-of-the-analytical-thinker/

It's not a bad thing. You can't help it as it is you. I for one understand your posts and what you are getting at. I don't find you weird, psychotic or in need of mental health help.

I've posted this to let you know that there is nothing wrong with you. There is nothing wrong with you.

If there was you would likely not be here or even exist.
Aside from the fact that I posted what I thought was a caring/nice post and received one back that was aggressive, rude, and insinuated that I was the one with a problem and was special needs. And Sybok said he received over 200 private messages, which indicates a serious mental health problem if true, and a case of harassment at least.

I don't like posting this, I was just going to let his reply to me go. But I also don't want people to say the behaviour is acceptable and fine, I don't think it is.
 

Amon

Member
Aside from the fact that I posted what I thought was a caring/nice post and received one back that was aggressive, rude, and insinuated that I was the one with a problem and was special needs. And Sybok said he received over 200 private messages, which indicates a serious mental health problem if true, and a case of harassment at least.

I don't like posting this, I was just going to let his reply to me go. But I also don't want people to say the behaviour is acceptable and fine, I don't think it is.
I understand.

If I were to ask you to explain why the last bit of your post is not acceptable, what would your reply be?

But I also don't want people to say the behaviour is acceptable and fine, I don't think it is
 

Nocturne

Friendly Tyrant
Forum Staff
Admin
I think I'll close this topic, as I can't see it going anywhere further and suspect the user has got the replies he requires. If you want to continue to discuss some of the themes that this topic has degenerated into covering, please take it into PMs.
 
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