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GMC Jam Discussion GMC Jam 31 / XXXI / Discussion

Discussion in 'GMC Jam' started by NAL, Sep 26, 2018.

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  1. Misu

    Misu The forum's immigrant

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    Not me...

    Im using the most hours i can within this range! Bring it on 10 days!
     
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  2. mimusic

    mimusic Member

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    edit: well looking back through the comments it seems like there's a lot more individuals who would really prefer the 10 day format :x I must admit, I'm personally way more likely to join in if I have 10 days to do it... I just hope it doesn't severely throw off the quality balance across entries. That came across as way more negative and concerned than I meant. I have full confidence this Jam will generate a lot of great entries and open the event to people who otherwise wouldn't participate.
    10 days would allow the more casual hobbyists and working folk to make legitimate entries, but it would also give those with more free time a great advantage. All the participants who are used to finishing up in 3 days would now have a lot more time to polish, expand on core ideas, and possibly work themselves into burnout. I'm into both 3 days and month-long for their own reasons, but 10 days just seems like it would only greatly benefit a subset of participants.

    For the GMC Jams in particular, 3 days feels adequate. Places like itch.io have longer jams for those who want more time or are only free during evenings.

    Otherwise, for the GM-specific aspect of these jams, I might just lightly recommend another jam on the forums with a longer timeline but no prizes. This way, nobody's really disadvantaged by a shorter/longer timeline, but people still get to come together over GameMaker.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
  3. dadio

    dadio Potato Overlord Forum Staff Moderator

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    I imagine it will "severely throw off the quality balance" because some people will use the full 10 days (whereas I suspect *most* people will only use 3 or 4 days). It may make judging entries and deciding winners more tricky, but it's worth it to be able to do this thing over weekdays or days not stacked back to back. And I think it's going to be interesting seeing what those few people do with all those extra days (longer games? more polish? more focus on sound/music/mood?) In theory, this Jam should produce more games, better quality and more variety. I like that we're also keeping the "3 possible Themes" change from last time, meaning not many (if any) people will have a valid excuse for not entering (10 days is a long enough stretch to have at least 1 day free, and 3 Themes mean it's not likely that you find at least 1 of them interesting.) Hafta say, personally I'm looking forward to this next GMCJam more than I have for many years.

    PS: If there are genuine concerns about quality balance/judging games this time round, it might be an idea for entrants to clearly state how much time they put in? That might help. Personally tho, my judging focus will still be 1. Does it make creative use of the Theme? and 2. Gameplay. (Something I'd be a lot more conerned about this Jam, is some people maybe entering longer/more polished games that they had created beforehand, and just doing some "reskinning" to count as following the Theme. So yeah, "creative Theme use" is gonna be even more important than usual for me this time when reviewing/judging.)
     
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  4. Misu

    Misu The forum's immigrant

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    I wonder what will Dadio make in 10 days...
     
  5. HayManMarc

    HayManMarc Member

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    My guess: Spankin' New Pun'kins
     
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  6. sylvain_l

    sylvain_l Member

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    hum... unbalance is already a thing.
    you already have team vs one person.
    you already have professional game dev vs. hobbyist.
    you already have participant that can only put a few hours in due to life vs. other who can spend the whole weekend.
    so IMO going from the 3 days format to 10 days isn't like you are introducing a factor that's not already in.

    I just hope it offer more opportunity for more participants to give it a shot.
     
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  7. mimusic

    mimusic Member

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    yeah i dont disagree with that lol, I'm not that worried about it. My tone came off stronger than I meant

    I get the impression people thought I was being negative about the change. It was really just a passing thought, a moment of playing devil's advocate, as I'm positive this jam will bring more and better entries than previous jams, and opens up the event to a lot of people who wouldn't otherwise want to or be able to take part (including myself)
     
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  8. NAL

    NAL ʕ ᓀ ᴥ ᓂ ʔ Moderator GMC Elder

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    The main topic is now up, and here is the first clue to the three themes!

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. Misu

    Misu The forum's immigrant

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    Full discussion so soon?

    Woooooooooooooooooooo!!!

    Hype hype hype!

    EDIT: i got your clue... Sort of...

    E = 4;
    P = 8;
    A = 8;
    S = 3;
    Y = 9;
    B = 5;

    Im wondering of these represent the position of those letters within its theme word. The question is, which letter goes to which word?
    Ill have to find out...
    Oh nevermind i realize that they represent word lengths. Ok so I get it now
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2018
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  10. GVmG

    GVmG Rainfall

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    wait it's already jam time? well, almost

    I'm in.

    EDIT: Aaaand, I solved it. WARNING: brute force, because screw systems of equations.

    Step 1, P=A. This means that E^2 will always be 2N where N is something (either A or P, both are the same).

    So, let's see what N can be, and what the resulting values would be for E, from 1 to 9 (because that's what the image says is the range):
    Code:
    N   result (E)
    1   √2 = 1.41421356237... (this isn't even rational, let alone integer)
    2   √4 = 2
    3   √6 = 2.44948974278...
    4   √8 = 2.82842712475...
    5   √10= 3.16227766017...
    6   √12= 3.46410161514...
    7   √14= 3.74165738677...
    8   √16= 4
    9   √18= 4.24264068712...
    
    We can suppose that E will be an integer, I doubt a letter will appear only partially.

    So now we are left with either A, P and E are all equal to 2, or P=A=8 and E=4. I'm guessing the latter, I doubt they'd only appear twice each across all three themes.

    Step 2, but let's be pessimistic and suppose that both P, E and A only appear twice each, across all three themes. Let's take a look at the other equations, reordered so that they look neater:
    Y=S^2, P=S+B, Y=E+B

    Let's look at that second one: replacing what we know, we have 2=S+B. That would mean that both S=B=1. Therefore Y=E+B=2+1=3. And this is wrong, because that would mean that the first equation would turn out to be 3=1^2. And we know 3 is definitely not equal to 1.

    Step 3, so maybe it was good to be pessimistic: let's suppose P=A=8 and E=4, and follow the same logic:
    8=S+B -> B=8-S

    Let's move that into the last equation: Y=E+B=4+(8-S). And since we know Y=S^2, let's replace that too: S^2=4+8-S. That's 12-S.

    That means S=√(12-S), and if we solve this (I'll spare you the actual operations) we get S=3. Let's plug that into B and Y, and we have B=5 and Y=9. So, let's see if we were luckier this time, and look at our results:
    S=3, P=A=8, E=4, B=5, Y=9.

    Final check, back to the original five equations:
    E^2=P+A -> 16=8+8 checks out
    P=A ->8=8 yeah, makes sense
    E+B=Y -> 4+5=9 yup
    S+B=P ->3+5=8 correct
    S^2=Y -> 3^2=9 indeed

    So in the end, we know the letter S appears 3 times, the letter P and A appear 8 times each, the letter E appears 4 times, the letter B appears 5 times, and the letter Y appears a grand total of 9 times.

    EDIT2: as usual I'm late and I didn't read the last messages, @Misu already solved it. I even misread what it was supposed to mean. welp I just wasted the night lmao
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2018
  11. NAL

    NAL ʕ ᓀ ᴥ ᓂ ʔ Moderator GMC Elder

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    Values are correct, but you're missing a (GameMaker-related) piece of the puzzle so you're using/interpreting them incorrectly!
     
  12. Yal

    Yal Member GMC Elder

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    If that's true, that's some The Seventh Guest levels of wordplay if I've ever seen it. :p (The infamous soup can puzzle, if nobody knows what I'm talking about)

    Also "you're missing a GM-related clue" is in itself a really interesting hint...
     
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  13. samspade

    samspade Member

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    I got the same result Misu did. But what does the other clue mean? "The number of letters showcased in each theme word"? Also does What am I? have any specific meaning? Or is it just asking what is the theme?

    Also you can unscramble the letters to be a couple different words such as Be A Spy and ESP Bay. :)
     
  14. IndianaBones

    IndianaBones Member

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    The number of letters showcased in each theme word...that's an interesting turn of phrase...is there a link to the YoYo games showcase page perhaps?

    Either that or the fact that Game Maker strings are indexed starting at 1...so you need to add 1 to all your answers... :)
     
  15. GVmG

    GVmG Rainfall

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    I mean, Y isn't that rare in English, I can see it appearing 9 times across three different multi-word themes.

    But yeah I doubt it's that because of the wording of the picture and because of the "GM-related clue".

    QuickEDIT: I'm guessing the first theme has 6 words that have that many letters, and the order depends on something GM-related.

    Maybe ABEPSY (alphabetical order), so the first theme would be
    XXXXXXXX XXXXX XXXX XXXXXXXX XXX XXXXXXXXX

    That'd be one long theme tho, and it's not GM-related.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2018
  16. Bentley

    Bentley Member

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    Amen to this. The short deadline is what forces you to focus on the essentials.
     
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  17. samspade

    samspade Member

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    I was closer than I thought with my joke. It's Psebay. 834589.
     
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  18. NAL

    NAL ʕ ᓀ ᴥ ᓂ ʔ Moderator GMC Elder

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    8 3 4 5 8 9 is the correct answer! However, going forward, consider it 8 3 4 10 8 9. Totally didn't shorten one of the words in my records and then forget to make it longer for the clue again :(

    Puzzle 2!

    [​IMG]
     
  19. GVmG

    GVmG Rainfall

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    That's a long-ish word, nice.

    Anyway here's the sudoku (pardon the bad quality pic and awful handwriting, tried to clean it up and increase contrast a bit)
    [​IMG]

    So theme #1 has 3 words, theme #2 is a single word, and theme #3 has 2.

    QuickEDIT: That means the themes are
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ _ _ - _ _ _ _
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    based on the lengths we got earlier.
     
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  20. Joh

    Joh Member

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    Interesting seeing the time frame switch.
    I know it set to 10 and I dont want to change it, but do want to express support same old 3 days and its supporters.
    Seeing @Nocturne taking hits left and right for what I feel is a very reasonable and well expressed position.(totally right too)
    Feels like too long to be a small prototype fun (throwaway) idea yet too short to be a proper viable small project. Everyone saying how they just use the 10 days to get a 72h of it kinda prove the point. how is that a jam, thats just ill make a game is that vague time period. its Missing all the pressure and even if it had any it couldn't be maintained it because 10 days is too long.

    I do want to say I am put-off by the 10 days, I want to mention that because it goes against the common sense "more time, more entrants" and it doesn't seem to have been brought up.
    If I decide to participate to something (i care about), I would want to have "worthwhile time" to participate otherwise its just not worth it. worthwhile time will vary from person and is entirely subjective, but its committed time and the more it is, the more off-putting it can be.
    in a way its been expressed from others for the 30 days im just saying it also applies to 10 days albeit to a much lesser extent.(did win a poll, so ill trust you on this)

    That being said, I don't know if ill participate yet, but i'll be keeping an eye out, feels like its been a while.
     
  21. Micah_DS

    Micah_DS Member

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    Pretty good points and I agree with you for the most part, but since it's already set, I think everyone should just give it a chance, see how it goes, then discuss again post-jam.

    From what I gather from all the past discussion, I expect a worst case scenario would be that we'd have a 10 day jam occasionally, but most jams would still be 72 hours. It's really hard for everyone to win; different mindsets, different schedules, etc.
    In the end, I really think the 10 day "jam" was the right choice. Sometimes you just gotta try something a little different and see how it goes. But it's just my opinion, of course.
     
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  22. Yal

    Yal Member GMC Elder

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    Educated guesses on the structure:
    • theme 1 is along the lines of "verb THE noun"
    • theme 2 is a very specific noun
    • theme 3 is "adjective noun" or "adverb verb", latter feels slightly more likely due to the long word length.
    Both THE GAME and FOR EVER fits into the first theme, both of which could be really interesting. And so do TEN DAYS, which could lead to an interesting meta-jam. Not even gonna try to guess the longer words yet, there's too many possibilities. x3
     
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  23. Misu

    Misu The forum's immigrant

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    Since not many here are from the jam discord server, Im gonna share my serious guess from last week.
    Code:
    BREAKING THE GAME
    CORRUPTIVE
    COUNTING BACKWARDS
     
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  24. GVmG

    GVmG Rainfall

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    yeah I was thinking of "- - - - - ing the game" for the first theme too, "breaking the game" does seem interesting but kind overdone maybe.

    maybe "building the game"? idk
     
  25. Yal

    Yal Member GMC Elder

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    Sorry I'm late with my tradional meme picture... Let's get the hype train rolling! x3
    original_hype_train.png
     
  26. Misu

    Misu The forum's immigrant

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    I wonder if there are anymore hints...
     
  27. NAL

    NAL ʕ ᓀ ᴥ ᓂ ʔ Moderator GMC Elder

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    [​IMG]
     
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  28. IndianaBones

    IndianaBones Member

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    A = 1, B = 2...etc..letter substitution gives:

    OLD MACDONALD HAD A FARM...

    E 8
    I 23
    E 28
    I 39
    O 24

    ...equals letter positions...

    Code:
    -------E --- ----
    -------IO-
    --E----- -----I---
    
     
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  29. GVmG

    GVmG Rainfall

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    For transparency's sake, in the Discord server we obtained the (possibly not intended to be said) hint that there are 4 O's total in the three themes.

    With that in mind, Misu suggested that since the title of the hint is "MOO MOO", and there are 4 O's there, there might be 2 M's as well across all three themes. I am less unsure about this one, especially after IndianaBones solved the current hint, which makes the "moo moo" seem unrelated to the amount of O's. I Still feel like it has to do with MGS 4's Gekko's sounding like cows.

    QuickEDIT: if that is the solution, then "BREAKING THE GAME" is not the first theme.

    EDIT: 5 O's, not 4, also 2 M's confirmed
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2018
  30. HayManMarc

    HayManMarc Member

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    So THATS why it's so quiet in here. Conversation is happening on Discord.
     
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  31. HayManMarc

    HayManMarc Member

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    woo. hype. ^
    21-bored.w700.h700.jpg
     
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  32. GVmG

    GVmG Rainfall

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    We really do need some hype

    Here's an anime pom pom girl, I don't have much else to offer just yet
    [​IMG]
     
  33. Misu

    Misu The forum's immigrant

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    I got nothing either so Ill just show the most common gif out in the internet...
    [​IMG]
     
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  34. Alice

    Alice Toolmaker of Bucuresti Forum Staff Moderator

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    Discord update: there are 6 As:
    [​IMG]
     
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  35. GVmG

    GVmG Rainfall

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    So given the past hints, 7 As.

    Just kidding, recapping:
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ E - _ _ _ - _ _ _ _
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I O _
    _ _ E _ _ _ _ _ - _ _ _ _ _ I _ _ _

    2 M's, 5 O's, 6 A's

    And some guesses:
    I'm still guessing the first one ends with "THE GAME".
    HAIRLINE: THE GAME yeah no lmao
    PURCHASE THE GAME now with DLC
    CONTINUE THE GAME this could be interesting, something that changes when played again or that continues an otherwise ended game series as a fangame
    SABOTAGE THE GAME also seems promising

    APPARITION would be cool

    CREATION - ???
    DREAMING - ???

    ??? - UNDEFINED
    ??? - IDENTICAL
    ??? - HILARIOUS
    ??? - BEAUTIFUL
    ??? - INVISIBLE
    ??? - FORTNIGHT (please no)
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
  36. Misu

    Misu The forum's immigrant

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    My guesses are:
    Code:
    MINIMIZE THE GAME
    CORRUPTION
    SPEEDING ABORTION
    ... ... ...Something tells me I guessed the third theme...
     
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  37. GVmG

    GVmG Rainfall

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    Oof that third theme

    I like Corruption too. I'll probably keep the Apparition guess for now, but Corruption does kinda fit with our original guess for the first theme which is now impossible (breaking the game).
     
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  38. Misu

    Misu The forum's immigrant

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    Who said 'breaking the game' is the first theme?
     
  39. GVmG

    GVmG Rainfall

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    Definitely not you, for sure, you'd never guess something wrong :^)
     
  40. Micah_DS

    Micah_DS Member

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    Just jumping in to say I really really love the theme Metroid Prime 3 "CORRUPTION". I'm really hoping that's it. I feel like that has so much potential for all types of games, whether a dev wants to focus on story, game mechanics, graphical art, etc.
     
  41. GVmG

    GVmG Rainfall

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    That's the thing, "CORRUPTION", "GLITCHES", "BREAKING THE GAME", they've all been done quite a bit with games recently. Yet they're very flexible themes. It's high risk (of repetitive boring stuff) high reward.

    On the bright side, any bug can be considered a feature please dont do that if you join the jam and the theme is corruption
     
  42. Toque

    Toque Member

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    Game Jam PRIZE!

    I would like to donate a prize for the upcoming Game Jam. I lucked out and the VERY talented Daniel Docherty https://www.danieldocherty.net has offered to provide:

    ** One custom track/song, 1-2 minutes long, provided 2 weeks post announcement. **

    I have paid Daniel in advance (at a generously reduced rate). So contact myself or Daniel once winners have been selected. Please contact me if any problems or questions.

    Thank-you Daniel for helping out.

    Toque
     
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  43. Lucas Poeiras

    Lucas Poeiras Member

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    Hi guys, I just bought GMS 2 and I'm trying to learn GML and stuff.
    I'd like to invite any brazilian or anyone who can speak portuguese to team up try with the GMC jam!
    I think it is a great oportunity to learn a lot about making games!
    And with 10 days to make a game, I think we can come up with something a least working.
     
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  44. Misu

    Misu The forum's immigrant

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    Why do you perceive that the word "corruption" refers to breaking or glitching? I mean true that it can define as so but you do realize corruption has more meanings. :p

    Corruption can be also betrayal, schemish, or vandalism.
     
  45. GVmG

    GVmG Rainfall

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    I know, I personally don't perceive it that way and would probably pick another meaning if it ended up being one of the themes. I was referring to how it is usually seen in games, especially after your first guess was "breaking the game", and how I've seen it creating a ton of generic "hurr durr the game is bruk" things in jams with similar themes.

    Regardless of that, even the glitch meaning has tons of unexplored potential so we may not know until it is confirmed...

    Which, btw for those who aren't in the Discord (you really should join it's chill), has been confirmed to not be the theme:
    upload_2018-11-8_16-10-41.png

    Shame, I really liked "dreaming identical", might steal it as a title in the end :^)
     
  46. NAL

    NAL ʕ ᓀ ᴥ ᓂ ʔ Moderator GMC Elder

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  47. GVmG

    GVmG Rainfall

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    Guessing this title doesn't means the ? letters words are not in the themes, otherwise it'd be a bit of a weird puzzle (It might mean exactly that, and deny some of our previous theme guesses). It probably has to do with the missing letters anyway.

    Also gonna suppose that there is one letter per ? (as the ? wildcard is often associated with a single missing character, while * is any number). However, some do feel like they need two letters.

    Middle could be CUTE/CUBE/CURE, DEBT and BEAGLE. Bottom-left HORSE/HOUSE, SPIT/SLIT (highly doubt it's a swear word), LORD.

    Top right might have BRIT, top left might have ATE.

    As for those who feel like they probably have two, for example, bottom right might have WEARER, ARTIST, top right might have BRITISH. However as I already said, I doubt the ? is for more than one character.

    EDIT: might be a letter per three-word-group, meaning the middle is CUBE-DEBT-BEAGLE with the letter B, bottom left could be HORSE/SUIT/LOUD U, and so on. Idk how plausible it is with other groups tho

    EDIT2: gonna suppose the ? can mean more than one letter, so bottom right can be ATHEIST/WEATHER/EPITHET, THE

    EDIT3: top left might be GAME, with some spicy confusing words: GAMETE (plant reproductive organ), LIGAMENT, and PURGAMENT (old latin thing that is almost not used now). This mixed with the second edit gives us the guess that theme 1 ends with "the game". Or maybe that it isn't that, given the title. however it seems a bit of a stretch.

    EDIT4: top right might also be IT. PITA bread, BRITISH, and... BITIT is a small town and rural commune in El Hajeb Province of the Fès-Meknès region of Morocco? yeah no that one's a bit of a stretch. Unless @NAL meant to write "B?" for BIT.

    for now what I see in this puzzle is:
    Top left->GAME
    Middle->B
    Bottom left->U
    Bottom right->THE
    and maybe IT in the top right. maybe.
    Top right->AND

    EDIT5: it's not IT. Or at least it's not BITIT. This last triplet of words is really the confusing one.

    EDIT6: AND. BANDIT, PANDA, BRANDISH.

    Every ? is either a letter or a word:
    Top left->GAME (Ligament, Purgament, Gamete - these are kinda complex, explanation in the third edit in the spoiler)
    Middle->B (Cube, Debt, Beagle)
    Bottom left->U (House, Suit, Loud)
    Bottom right->THE (Epithet, Atheist, Weather)
    Top right->AND (Brandish, Panda, Bandit)

    The title hints at either these words/letters not being in the themes (which would break our previous "THE GAME" guesses for the first theme), or that they are in the themes (but then the puzzle title is weird).
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2018
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  48. Bentley

    Bentley Member

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    I love this theme.
     
  49. Toque

    Toque Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Posts:
    540
    Yes. That’s a great jam theme.
     
  50. samspade

    samspade Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    Posts:
    1,281
    I'm sad I gave up on this and looked up the answer. I had figured out the single letters and just assumed that the answer was really strange words I didn't know. The actual answer (which I guess hasn't been confirmed yet?) is much more clever.

    That said, I think it is more likely the words/letters are NOT in the theme. As there is only one three letter word in the theme and two three letter words here and that fits with the clue. Although, it could be that and or the is within another word, as was the case with the puzzle, so I'm fine with it either way.

    edit: another point for the words NOT being in the theme is that the prior clue MOO MOO seemed to indicate and was sort of confirmed that there were four Os (5 actually but that was a mistake?) and possibly two Ms? I'm not really following the stuff on Discord though so I might have got that wrong, so the clue names seem to be important beyond the clue itself as well.
     

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