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iOS General advice needed: iOS game

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squirrelmonkeycom

Guest
I want to make an iOS version of my first two games but when I read articles about putting a game in the app store, it seems like a huge ordeal. It even looks like it's more work than developing a game.

When I read manuals, I discover that...
- I need to obtain a D-U-N-S-number.
- I need to pay $99 a year to become a registered Apple developer.
- I need a physical Apple computer.
- I need to install Xcode 6 .
- I need an Apple Development Certificate.
- I need an App ID.
- I need a Developer Certificate.
- I need a “Provisional profile”.
- I need to register my iOS test device (does that mean giving a serial number to Apple!?)
- I need to sync a mac with a PC
- I need to set up a web server.
Etc.

Are there people who are experienced Apple developers who can give me some general advice of where I should start? Are there things that I have to keep in mind? How long does it take before Apple accepts your game? Do they reject a lot of games?
 

BLang

Member
Not sure about making games for iOS, but just wanted to pitch in and say that you might consider doing HTML5 instead. It's a lot less of a hassle, and you can make it compatible with all devices that can do HTML5!
 
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squirrelmonkeycom

Guest
Not sure about making games for iOS, but just wanted to pitch in and say that you might consider doing HTML5 instead. It's a lot less of a hassle, and you can make it compatible with all devices that can do HTML5!
Thanks. It is already an HTML5 game. I want to make an app of it because web browers and social media apps steal screen space with bottom and top bars. Also they make it sometimes impossible to play the game.
 

zbox

Member
GMC Elder
iOS is terrible and backwards. It's honestly one of the biggest pains. If you don't have to don't develop for it, just let it fizzle out before everyone gets an android ;)

I've had to apply for an ABN, apply for GST (Tax, usually you don't have to do this unless you make more than 75k but apple force you to do it anyway), go through multiple issues with DUNS numbers, not to mention very specific and time consuming issues with requiring a mac to compile.

The google play dev console is far superior, the itunes one has been improving recently but it still isnt as good as the Google one was a few years back. And not to mention you don't have to jump through lots of hoops just to get your app rejected.

yes I'm mad
 

chorrus

Member
The biggest issue you could have is getting an Apple Computer(if you don't own one), I did all that around a year ago so I can't really guide you much but if I am not wrong I used this guide and was extremely helpful. http://help.yoyogames.com/hc/en-us/articles/216753858-Develop-For-And-Distribute-To-iOS

Looks like it may take a lot of time to do that, but not really, you could have all in one day. If you have some games it will probably pay off, you will make much more per download in iOS + you get a lot of visibility first week, if people like your game you'll get thousands of downloads first week.
 

Jabbers

Member
Historically it has been more profitable to develop for iOS than Android so it is worth your time, contrary to whatever personal preferences other people might have.

My feeling is that releasing a game on the iTunes App Store is fairly straight forward. It doesn't matter what platform you want to develop for, you must be prepared to deal with the configuration and admin involved in getting a product on a store.

I can sympathise with those who can not afford the expense involved in buying a Macintosh computer, which is required to legally run OS X and use Apple's developer tools, but it isn't unreasonable to be expected to own devices from the ecosystem you plan to develop for. If you aren't willing to invest money into the right tools, perhaps you should consider a different platform.
 

zbox

Member
GMC Elder
you will make much more per download in iOS + you get a lot of visibility first week
I think this is pretty much an old wives tale at this point. Both markets are just as competitive and diluted.
My feeling is that releasing a game on the iTunes App Store is fairly straight forward
Let me tell you right now that it is not for small indie developers. If you have an admin team managing this sort of stuff it would be fine, but if you want something as simple as in app purchases be prepared to fill out a lot of non-mandatory tax forms in your respective state.

Also "legally" isn't really the language I'd use to describe that scenario.
 

Jabbers

Member
I could be described as a small indie developer, and I went through the same process, and in my experience I felt it was straightforward.

I don't accept that fulfilling your tax obligation (a process that differs depending where you live) is really the fault of any store or distributor. I don't know what Apple requests in terms of in-app purchases, but when it came to selling an app, I found Apple to be no less straightforward than selling a product through an independent online retailer.

I feel you need to be willing to deal with this sort of thing if you want to sell a product. It would reflect badly on a person if they chose not to deliver a game through a major platform because the paperwork confused them. Seek tax advice if you need it.
 
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zbox

Member
GMC Elder
Rest assure there was no confusion, the paperwork for my jurisdiction was both unnecessary (legally and practically) and extensive. The terms would be much easier under an independent online retailer as you manage your own taxes as an independent company with an income, as it should indeed operate.
 

Jabbers

Member
Rest assure there was no confusion, the paperwork for my jurisdiction was both unnecessary (legally and practically) and extensive. The terms would be much easier under an independent online retailer as you manage your own taxes as an independent company with an income, as it should indeed operate.
I find your claims hugely inconsistent with what I've experienced, beyond our respective local tax laws. What stores have you dealt with that didn't require tax information from you? It is standard to have to sort out your tax obligations with any online game retailer that pays money out to you, as it is important for their tax records particularly in situations where they treat those payments as royalties and / or you live outside of the country they operate in. Please correct me if I am wrong here, I don't claim to be a tax expert but what you are saying doesn't sound right to me.
 

zbox

Member
GMC Elder
A vendor should just be able to pay out what you have earned respectively, paying their own income taxes as need be. It is not Apple's prerogative how I pay/If I pay tax nor is it their legal obligation at least in my jurisdiction and I imagine many others. This is reflected with other vendors like the google play store.
 

Jabbers

Member
I think what we've learned here is that Apple isn't the only organisation to require tax information, and that as a developer you shouldn't miss out on an opportunity for dislike of tax forms. It isn't reasonable to only complain about Apple because of how they handle tax, when there are many stores that also require you to fill out forms and clarify your tax obligation as standard practice; Valve is one notable example (even international devs have to apply for EIN numbers just to submit a form to clarify their tax obligations). A good attitude to have is to get help with tax if you need it, and just get on with it so you can reach a new audience and share your product, whatever the platform may be. It would be a shame to limit yourself, and I am sorry to say your attitude sounds very limiting.
 

zbox

Member
GMC Elder
Limiting in the sense of what, I have apps on the Apple store and I make money off them. Doesn't stop me from saying they follow unnecessary and nonsensical procedures for small devs.
 
D

Drewster

Guest
I want to make an iOS version of my first two games but when I read articles about putting a game in the app store, it seems like a huge ordeal. It even looks like it's more work than developing a game.

When I read manuals, I discover that...
- I need to obtain a D-U-N-S-number.
- I need to pay $99 a year to become a registered Apple developer.
- I need a physical Apple computer.
- I need to install Xcode 6 .
- I need an Apple Development Certificate.
- I need an App ID.
- I need a Developer Certificate.
- I need a “Provisional profile”.
- I need to register my iOS test device (does that mean giving a serial number to Apple!?)
- I need to sync a mac with a PC
- I need to set up a web server.
Etc.

Are there people who are experienced Apple developers who can give me some general advice of where I should start? Are there things that I have to keep in mind? How long does it take before Apple accepts your game? Do they reject a lot of games?
Most of this is true. You don't need to set up a web server necessarily, and you only need a duns number if you are registering as a company (rather than an individual).
You do need the Mac. Get one. Certificates and Provisioning Profiles drive everyone nuts and registering your iOS device is trivial and can be automatically done with Xcode.

There are definitely hoops to jump through with iOS, but it is definitely worthwhile.

My own OPINION is that #1 profitability is probably getting on Steam, followed by iOS, Android, and HTML5 sites.

My EXPERIENCE though is only with iOS and Android, and iOS has been leaps and bounds more profitable for me than Android, for whatever reason.

Good luck!
 

zbox

Member
GMC Elder
Interesting Drewster, more profitable through advertising or app sales/IAP's? I'd think steam was the least profitable, in the scheme of the app/casual and mobile days the PC seems to be comparatively almost a niche market for small devs
 
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jackhigh24

Guest
yep you have to jump through all them loops for sure and singing games is tricky as sometimes xcode does not mange it for you even though you set it to do so and it says in your console that this cert of id or profile is mange by xcode but isnt and you have to do in manually and may have to open them up in keychain and set permissions, and for what my apps got more downloads on ios than google, example one game got 2000 downloads but not earned a single penny from it on ios using interstitial ad but on google the same game got 322 downloads and earned 20 dollars, same for my other app as well, amazon got me 10 cent for same products, so looks like google is the best place now, plus apple has banned a lot of apps type or genera now as well which has stagnated those categories becuase now know can submit a better app so there customers are stuck with the crap that was put on there in the past 5 years and no updates allowed ether to those app types, infact i tried to put one on there recent as i didnt know about the bans and now im waiting to see it they are going to ban me for life for trying, they are going to ring me in the next day or two so i can put my case forward, but at the moment im not allowed to submit any more apps or update my other apps and they may all get removed if i get a permanent ban, so id say screw apple and if yoyo fix the issue with tizen then we wont need apple any more as we will have a market who want and need our games and apps and ready to pay money for them.
 
K

KriLL

Guest
Every time I have to do something for Apple it makes me feel like I want to scream and punch a wall lol. I personally find them so difficult, frustrating, backwards and anoying in everything they do. However not developing for Apple devices is cutting out a big part of potential revenue.
 
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ringgit

Guest
Hi there, I am new but interested to know - is it neccessary to sign up for the Apple $99/year developer account if I just wanted to test my game on iOS? I am new to making games and it does not make sense to sign up for $99/year when I wasn't sure if my venture would be successful. I've already invested into GameMaker, so I would like to put off further investment until I am sure of it. Appreciate!
 

rIKmAN

Member
Hi there, I am new but interested to know - is it neccessary to sign up for the Apple $99/year developer account if I just wanted to test my game on iOS? I am new to making games and it does not make sense to sign up for $99/year when I wasn't sure if my venture would be successful. I've already invested into GameMaker, so I would've like to put off further investment until I am sure of it. Appreciate!
Just for testing in your own device connected to your Mac you do not need to pay $99 for a dev licence.

Create an AppleID (if you don't have one) and login to the Dev Portal.
Then sign into xCode using this AppleID and download the free certificates.

The provisioning profiles only last for 7 days (I think) but they will allow you to sign apps and test them in your own device.

Let xCode manage the signing etc, and then build the project to your connected device (via USB) and everything should work fine.

I'm not at home right now so can't give you the links I have, but if you Google there are guides on how to set everything up to use the free account / certs / provisioning profiles etc within xCode.

If you want to test on other devices via TestFlight or submit to the store you will need a proper dev licence, but until that point you will be fine.
 

clee2005

Member
@squirrelmonkeycom iOS is a demanding platform for sure. If your game does well then it's a good platform to be on. Funny enough I was not happy having to buy an Mac Mini either, but decided to do so and definitely don't regret it. People have lots of opinions which I respect, but being a die hard PC software dev for ever and then finally using Apple hardware, I now understand what people are on about. It's high end hardware, and I ended up really liking OSX as well.
 
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ringgit

Guest
I'm not at home right now so can't give you the links I have, but if you Google there are guides on how to set everything up to use the free account / certs / provisioning profiles etc within xCode.
Thanks for your response. This is very good news indeed. I actually tried to Google specifically for a tutorial on Game Maker to set up free account but I couldn't find one that outlined the steps needed. I'd appreciate if you can help me with it. Thanks.
 

rIKmAN

Member
Thanks for your response. This is very good news indeed. I actually tried to Google specifically for a tutorial on Game Maker to set up free account but I couldn't find one that outlined the steps needed. I'd appreciate if you can help me with it. Thanks.
I'd start off by getting xCode setup and working with your free dev account and building to your device.
Use one of the demo / tutorial projects and this will confirm your certs and profiles are working in case you get any errors down the line.

Make sure you use a version of xCode compatible with the version of GM you are using and which supports devices / iOS version you want to target.

Once you have that working you can setup the GMS side of things.
 
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ringgit

Guest
Right-O, I will set it up at work tomorrow. Keeping my fingers crossed!
 
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