GDC2019

XanthorXIII

Member
So what’s YoYos GDC Presence at GDC2019 this year? Last year we didn’t hear anything or at least no one was really talking about it. I was hoping this year it would be different. Maybe a blog post?
 

chance

predictably random
Forum Staff
Moderator
YoYo has an exhibitor booth this year (exhibitor list - Y). Not sure what else they may be doing (partying?)

I quickly browsed the speaker list, but didn't see any names I recognized.... except for Mike Dailly, in his new job. He's giving a (familiar) talk on Wednesday.
 

XanthorXIII

Member
As it is GDC2019 and we're all sitting here listening about other Engines doing this and that getting their respective base excited to be using their platform, why can't we get that from YoYo? This exactly the kind of missed things that we bringing up in the Mega Thread that was back from August.
 

O.Stogden

Member
So any love for Google Stadia?
My net won't be good enough for it. I think it'll probably be the way gaming goes, but I'm not looking forward to it. :D My interest in general gaming has waned in the past couple of years. So I can't really see myself gaming much in 5 years, especially if it's a move to cloud gaming, I'll have moved on to other things.
 
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Stadia just looks like another thing to get https://killedbygoogle.com/

The US would be the biggest potential market for this but the internet infrastructure to be able to support it just isn't there for most of the country. That's not to mention the latency issues inherent to video game streaming will render some genres next to unplayable.
 

Relic

Member
Had to do a quick background check, but where Tizen was restricted to select Samsung tech and Ouya was a piece of dedicated hardware aimed at casual games (weird combo as that is clearly covered by smart phones), Stadia is using an interface everyone is already familiar with (just an internet browser) and uses the technology already in clients possesion, provides opportunities for developers to be even more creative by skipping over resource concerns, and has a strong focus on connecting gamers with YouTube influencers who are pretty much in control over the trends in games now. It’s not us “oldies” who want to stick with the conventional ownership games and/or hardware that will decide Stadia’s future but the younger gen that follow personalities on YouTube/Twitch and will happily click the link on a Youtuber’s video and shout at Mum to bring the credit card over- actually this gen is probably more college/University age by now.

While Stadia does rely on an internet connection, even if the promise of 4K at 60 FPS on release this year turns into 1080p at 30 FPS for most people with average internet- I see it taking off. Why not, when upgrading my pc rig costs 1000 USD every 3 years to keep up with playing games on high settings and still doesn’t get me the (promised) processing power of games running on Stadia.

In the end it will come down to the stability of the platform and the range of games available, including exclusives to Stadia that will see it boom or bust.
 
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CombatCalamity

Guest
While Stadia does rely on an internet connection, even if the promise of 4K at 60 FPS on release this year turns into 1080p at 30 FPS for most people with average internet- I see it taking off. Why not, when upgrading my pc rig costs 1000 USD every 3 years to keep up with playing games on high settings and still doesn’t get me the (promised) processing power of games running on Stadia.
..what are you talking about?

Do you give your PC away to the orphanage every 3 years?

Maybe you meant $1000 initially, then $300-$500 every 5-7 years? Also if you sell your old video card you earn a bit money back.. While this Stadia thing will sure have an expensive monthly fee, on top of the already expensive high end internet connection that it requires, with no way to recoup the money spent, well.. renting basically.

Also, forget 4k 60fps, really.. You either have to pay an even more costly monthly fee + even better internet, live near their servers to reduce the latency, or both. The average guy living in the US can probably only get the 1080p 30fps, in that case just friggin' buy a PS4 lol. You'll recoup the money easily in a year or so.

GTX 1070 brand new is less than $500, it runs ALL modern games on 1080p at solid 60fps bare minimum. That's a really conservative estimation as it's a card designed for 1440p.

Another $500 is an investment of your other components that you get to keep for 10+ years easily. Why on earth would you need to replace the entire PC every 3 years?

Do we not already have the NVIDIA GeForce Now? Just see how it is..

Don't get me wrong tho, it's still cool as heck! It just doesn't make sense economic wise. Maybe only for games that you play once and never pick up again? This is why movie streaming makes sense. I don't want to re-watch most of the movies that I've watched. In this case renting makes sense. This is true for some games too, like maybe strong story-based video games like Telltale's games? For some other games... Nope, I just love them to death, I want to keep playing them the day I have grand kids and not have the monthly fees eat out my retirement funds..:p
 

Relic

Member
..what are you talking about?

Do you give your PC away to the orphanage every 3 years?

Maybe you meant $1000 initially, then $300-$500 every 5-7 years? Also if you sell your old video card you earn a bit money back.. While this Stadia thing will sure have an expensive monthly fee, on top of the already expensive high end internet connection that it requires, with no way to recoup the money spent, well.. renting basically.

Also, forget 4k 60fps, really.. You either have to pay an even more costly monthly fee + even better internet, live near their servers to reduce the latency, or both. The average guy living in the US can probably only get the 1080p 30fps, in that case just friggin' buy a PS4 lol. You'll recoup the money easily in a year or so.

GTX 1070 brand new is less than $500, it runs ALL modern games on 1080p at solid 60fps bare minimum. That's a really conservative estimation as it's a card designed for 1440p.

Another $500 is an investment of your other components that you get to keep for 10+ years easily. Why on earth would you need to replace the entire PC every 3 years?

Do we not already have the NVIDIA GeForce Now? Just see how it is..

Don't get me wrong tho, it's still cool as heck! It just doesn't make sense economic wise. Maybe only for games that you play once and never pick up again? This is why movie streaming makes sense. I don't want to re-watch most of the movies that I've watched. In this case renting makes sense. This is true for some games too, like maybe strong story-based video games like Telltale's games? For some other games... Nope, I just love them to death, I want to keep playing them the day I have grand kids and not have the monthly fees eat out my retirement funds..:p
You don't know the cost of the service either, so your claim it doesn't make economic sense is as evidence based as my claim that it does make sense, I guess.

I disagree that the 1070 runs ALL modern games at 1080p, 60 fps - confirmed by this article. I'm not a "specs" guy so I googled this out of interest as I wasn't sure, but the first link said Assassin's creed Odyssey runs 50 fps at 1080p - granted a lot of other 2018 hits were actually fine, just so happened this game was at the top so caught my eye. I also use a 4k monitor, so no, I can't run all modern games at high settings. Eventually the "great GPU at a decent price", becomes just a "good gpu". Going to have to fork out for the next generation of gpu fairly soon.

Edit: And I forgot to add, Nvidia is a GPU manufacturer. Google is THE INTERNET and in a much better position to provide a fast reliable service- I'm not up to speed with how it all works, but the GDC announcement made it sound like they have their own data centres/infrastructure hence the connections are not intermingled with the "public internet" (their words). Its also not just about the tech but how it can be marketed. 1 out of 100 people might know the name Nvidia and even then, how would they know of GeForce now? I sure as hell didn't even look into it myself at the time.... harder to ignore the YouTube streamer shouting out to have his fanbase join him in a match via the click of a link?
 
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FrostyCat

Redemption Seeker
Had to do a quick background check, but where Tizen was restricted to select Samsung tech and Ouya was a piece of dedicated hardware aimed at casual games (weird combo as that is clearly covered by smart phones), Stadia is using an interface everyone is already familiar with (just an internet browser) and uses the technology already in clients possesion, provides opportunities for developers to be even more creative by skipping over resource concerns, and has a strong focus on connecting gamers with YouTube influencers who are pretty much in control over the trends in games now. It’s not us “oldies” who want to stick with the conventional ownership games and/or hardware that will decide Stadia’s future but the younger gen that follow personalities on YouTube/Twitch and will happily click the link on a Youtuber’s video and shout at Mum to bring the credit card over- actually this gen is probably more college/University age by now.

While Stadia does rely on an internet connection, even if the promise of 4K at 60 FPS on release this year turns into 1080p at 30 FPS for most people with average internet- I see it taking off. Why not, when upgrading my pc rig costs 1000 USD every 3 years to keep up with playing games on high settings and still doesn’t get me the (promised) processing power of games running on Stadia.

In the end it will come down to the stability of the platform and the range of games available, including exclusives to Stadia that will see it boom or bust.
I don't think you understand my point. I'm not talking about Stadia's viability or longevity in particular, that's none of my business. I'm questioning whether YoYo will provide adequate support for Stadia over its life cycle as well as existing exports, should they decide to join the fray.

Yes, Tizen and Ouya were both short-lived, but the biggest problem is how YoYo's attention span for both were shorter-lived still. The exports for them failed repeatedly while they were in active use, and were abandoned while the platforms were still alive. If YoYo offers Stadia as an option, I have a strong hunch that they'll slack off as soon as the media moves onto the next headline, and anyone taking YoYo at their word will be left screaming "vada a bordo, cazzo".

Or if the pendulum swings the other way, they'll love it so much that it's to the detriment of existing exports and customers. That's evident during several earlier HB giveaways, when they occurred near the beginning of the school year and institutional users were left in the support queue for months at a time. It cost YoYo a visible share of its educational clientele, and to date I still don't believe they understand the lesson.
 
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CombatCalamity

Guest
You don't know the cost of the service either, so your claim it doesn't make economic sense is as evidence based as my claim that it does make sense, I guess.
Ask yourself, do you think it's going to be reasonable priced? It puts quite a strain on their servers, bandwidth is also much more expensive than movie streaming which is already at $10-$15 (more expensive as you pick better quality). I'm calling it, at least it's going to be $25/mo bare minimum, and prices increase as you pick better resolution/fps.

I disagree that the 1070 runs ALL modern games at 1080p, 60 fps - confirmed by this article. I'm not a "specs" guy so I googled this out of interest as I wasn't sure, but the first link said Assassin's creed Odyssey runs 50 fps at 1080p - granted a lot of other 2018 hits were actually fine, just so happened this game was at the top so caught my eye. I also use a 4k monitor, so no, I can't run all modern games at high settings. Eventually the "great GPU at a decent price", becomes just a "good gpu". Going to have to fork out for the next generation of gpu fairly soon.
You said high, not ultra/max. That article did the latter instead of the former. It's also unfair to use one game that performs bad as your point, since most others passed the test at 1080p 60fps @Ultra/Max! We're talking high settings here, not ultra. If a GTX 1070 passed most of those tests at ultra, don't you think it's going to rock at high?

But let's say you're still denying all the facts, just up another $250 to your budget to get a GTX 1080, seriously.

I also use a 4k monitor, so no, I can't run all modern games at high settings.
4k? Forget it.
It's obviously going to cost as much as your electricity bill every month.

You're going to burn lots of money every month for going that route.

Get a GTX 1080 Ti for 4k and you'll recoup your investment easily. Sell it for some $$ when you're upgrading. Don't fall for those gimmicks. Companies push towards paying monthly as it guarantees cash flow for them. I lost my crap the most when Adobe went for this route.

Edit: And I forgot to add, Nvidia is a GPU manufacturer. Google is THE INTERNET and in a much better position to provide a fast reliable service- I'm not up to speed with how it all works, but the GDC announcement made it sound like they have their own data centres/infrastructure hence the connections are not intermingled with the "public internet" (their words). Its also not just about the tech but how it can be marketed. 1 out of 100 people might know the name Nvidia and even then, how would they know of GeForce now? I sure as hell didn't even look into it myself at the time.... harder to ignore the YouTube streamer shouting out to have his fanbase join him in a match via the click of a link?
What about geographical location? If you live in Alaska is it still considered living in the US? You will easily pay much more for the same amount of streaming service in NYC. That's not counting the rest of the world either. This was a problem also for GeForce Now also. This is just a product for a niche market, really.

You sound like you just saw a tech demo by some big company for the very first time. It's called PR. To make people believe.


Google is big, but I think you missed the moments where they killed tons of their 'smart' ideas like this.. They're well known for that. Look it up.

That's why it's dumb for YYG to support another new thing for now as those resources could well be allocated to other more important things such as stability and reliability to their current products.
 

Relic

Member
I agree with most of what you are saying - I’m not a spec guy, and didn’t even know that ultra was a setting unique to high. The only thing I know, and you can’t argue with me about, is the money leaving my hand- but as I am money rich, time poor I don’t try and sell my hardware second hand or look for the cheapest builds- I pay someone to build it for me. Yes, my last laptop I gave to a local kindergarten (not quite an orphanage).

What I don’t agree on is the price you estimate for Stadia. Why would game bandwidth cost more than movie streaming? In the end what comes to you is a a 4K image. You do have to send more upstream (controller input) but that is minuscule in comparison. What I am unsure about is the licensing cost. It’s not purely data we pay for, but the library of movies on offer. Will google charge per month for unlimited access to everything, or do you still pay per product but with the flexibility of accessing your games anywhere? I dont think anything about this was said... if it’s monthly I would expect $15/month but we will have to just wait and see.
 
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CombatCalamity

Guest
I agree with most of what you are saying - I’m not a spec guy, and didn’t even know that ultra was a setting unique to high. The only thing I know, and you can’t argue with me about, is the money leaving my hand- but as I am money rich, time poor I don’t try and sell my hardware second hand or look for the cheapest builds- I pay someone to build it for me. Yes, my last laptop I gave to a local kindergarten (not quite an orphanage).

What I don’t agree on is the price you estimate for Stadia. Why would game bandwidth cost more than movie streaming? In the end what comes to you is a a 4K image. You do have to send more upstream (controller input) but that is minuscule in comparison. What I am unsure about is the licensing cost. It’s not purely data we pay for, but the library of movies on offer. Will google charge per month for unlimited access to everything, or do you still pay per product but with the flexibility of accessing your games anywhere? I dont think anything about this was said... if it’s monthly I would expect $15/month but we will have to just wait and see.
I'm a full grown adult with kids who's time poor as well and it takes me literally less than a couple hours on the weekend to do everything from watching a youtube video about value-for-money PC build that time, order everything off amazon, use a same day delivery, and put everything together. If you also have kids, I highly suggest do this together with them so the time spent is not a business expense, but rather a family weekend time. But if you don't bother.... then you're right, that's pretty much the end of the line here.

Yes what comes to you is a 4k image, but you forgot the fact that they have to process it before they send the image to you! Processing power doesn't come free. With Netflix or Spotify they barely do any processing on their servers, video games aren't the same!

Just for reference, last time I checked GeForce Now streaming costs $25 for every 20-hour of play, that's the GTX 1060 variant (meaning a server with a GTX 1060 is serving you). That's $1.25 an hour. For GTX 1080, it's doubled at $25 for 10 hours, $2.50 an hour. So you just adjust however power you need for the quality/fps you want.

Also, I think we're wrong to compare this streaming thing to a PC, it's unfair. The PC option is going to annihilate it every way possible. It's just hard to beat that.

A much better use is to use this to game on your business trips where you just carry a really light laptop instead of a gaming laptop that's not only heavy, but costs an arm an a leg for a decent one. Also no way to upgrade, less repairs, etc. Much worse than a PC.

Maybe the perfect average use for this streaming service would be on the go, provided if you got a decent hotel wifi (which is usually trash for playing online games, let alone streaming one, and the fact that wireless connection is volatile for something this demanding). So yeah, we have a long way to get there eventually.. I guess $25 every once in a while is fine.

So it's obviously not $15/month, that's for sure. I feel like you get a little hyped by the tech demo before really knowing what's inside further...:D
 

Relic

Member
That and the user who lives is a small apartment, has no space for a separate pc station (or not interested in one) and can just use a controller straight through the tv running a chrome browser. A new console is around $500 and for a user who just buys the latest call of duty, fifa and online sub each year, works out at about $18-22 a month over a 7 year console cycle. Much much worse for anyone who would buy more games.

Building with the kids sounds good, but with two under 4, need to wait another couple of years.
 

Toque

Member
That and the user who lives is a small apartment, has no space for a separate pc station (or not interested in one) and can just use a controller straight through the tv running a chrome browser. A new console is around $500 and for a user who just buys the latest call of duty, fifa and online sub each year, works out at about $18-22 a month over a 7 year console cycle. Much much worse for anyone who would buy more games.

Building with the kids sounds good, but with two under 4, need to wait another couple of years.
That’s unusual! My under four kids are so helpful. So productive. They do all the chores while I play video games. So cute for my birthday they built a custom multigame stand up arcade machine for me. I hope they stay under four forever.
 
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