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Discussion games cantina

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Misty, Jan 2, 2019.

  1. Misty

    Misty Member

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    I wanted to talk about a serious thing, its called "the games cantina cancer". I am at heart an anarchist but sometimes anarchy can be taken too far, for example is the case with the steam games library, they literally have no quality control and literally accept the scum of the earth games, games so bad it makes YoYoGames Sandbox games look good.

    I call it "cantina" in reference to the star wars cantina, it is literally a hive of scummy games, psychotic egoist devs who even threaten to sue some people for criticizing their garbage games, 12 year old kids who literally buy unity example projects and resell them as actual games, basically unedited, steam has turned into a ghetto with literally no quality control whatsoever...

    The games are so bad it literally causes psychological effects from browsing the garbage heap, it causes me to feel depressed and occassionally even suicidal, when I look at these games I lose complete faith in humanity sometimes. It even seems like an addiction, like I can't get enough of the lols of and the nightmare these games are, even if it makes me sick to my stomach to do so, I can't help but keep scrolling, its like an unending abyss...

    I don't want to be a total fascist but steam needs to get out of the gutter and stand up tall, not letting itself be used as a toilet or dumpster for people to pollute it with their shameless trash, let me clarify my thoughts even further...

    I don't believe in excessive fascism or vetting, I don't believe in Steam Greenlight, I think its ridiculous to expect indie developers to have to pay 5000 dollars or raise hundreds of fans just to release a game, that seems overly censory and fascistic, but I do think steam needs to at least implement a rudimentary level of quality control, I mean some of these games are litterally big rigs quality or worse, you shouldn't have to make a game of the year or be the next big game to be accepted, but at least implement a rudimentary form of quality control.

    Overall, the game industry is collapsing as we speak, all the AAA titles are losing faith, it's like a scummy cantina of shameless devs who don't care about their fans and make everything into microtransactions, now indie devs are following the same cantina mindset, they have zero ethics whatsoever, the problem gets even worse than that...

    Some indie games which are not that good have a cultish following of loyal fans, many games that are actually good, but have one or two flaws, don't get much attention while mediocre games can somehow get very positive reviews, even the critics don't seem to have any sanity or rational thinking behind their reviewing methods, any modernistic mediocrity tickles them slightly they seem to give high ratings, its insane. That combined with the market being oversaturated with trash, as well as over-praised mediocrity and delusional, hysterical seeming reviewers makes it hard to make money as a startup, that in addition with AAA companies having zero ethics whatsoever...

    I want to make a website called the "Cantina" but its an ironic parody name where I only put high quality games on it.

    For those of you who live in a cave, here is the reference:


    also it feels like a literal tumor is growing inside my body when i browse this cancer

    this is not even new, its cyclical, it happened in the 80's and Shigeru Miyamoto put an end to it with Nintendo Quality Seal of assurace, in fact games of that era were so trash they hired Miyamoto and he saved the game industry from total collapse. I mean have you seen it lately, its like a joke, the new "Soulja boy console" is like the icing on the cake, the cherry on top of this cesspool, it just seems perfectly fitting and destined, like a garbage heap being christened with a fine glaze of toxic sludge, i guess one word that would summarize everything that's going on would be either "pathetic" or "invertebrates"
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
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  2. RollyBug

    RollyBug Member

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    I know that there are heaps of cheap trash buried in Stream and across the web, though I haven't run in to them much. Typically I find issue with the expensive trash - AAA titles like Battlefront, Fallout 76, and so on. Those are completely different beasts.

    Simply stop looking for it. The market will itself push this stuff further down the list where it belongs.

    I get that you're passionate about this but you need to chill. A lot of what you've written is uncivil and bordering on offensive.
     
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  3. Misty

    Misty Member

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    And...this is what I mean. Totally oversensitive. You didn't even say I was offensive, but "borderline offensive". As for the uncivil I'm not even going to begin to bother, its just another byproduct of the oversensitive, easily offended society. I don't even know what I said that you are so triggered by, and honestly I do not care. Still, there is hope for you because at least you nailed some of the garbage AAA titles correctly. But you seem to turn a blind eye on all the trash that's on steam, youre acting like most of the games on there are good, when the majority are not. The majority are average, some are complete trash, and some are decent, and a few are good. In essence your trying minimize the problem and pretend its not as serious as it is.
     
  4. RollyBug

    RollyBug Member

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    How about overly abrasive and annoying? Wording aside, the point is there. Also it really is quite difficult to legitimately offend me.

    I am minimizing this. I don't see much of an issue. People don't buy cheap crap, so the product fails. The good stuff, what people usually buy, lifts up to the top. Who cares if the bad stuff sits at the very bottom of the pile where hardly anyone will ever see it?
     
  5. Siolfor the Jackal

    Siolfor the Jackal Member

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    You talk about oversensitivity but then you're so sensitive that looking at a list of games can make you sad. And then you rant about things you think need changing.
     
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  6. Sabrina Stoakes

    Sabrina Stoakes Member

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    I don't really think Steam could honestly do much better. Even when they had the whole, "greenlight" thing there were so many games getting passed just because people thought they were funny, or because the game had a bigger following. The $100 submission fee that they currently have doesn't gatekeep bad games completely, but it does to a certain extent and Steam's library could be a lot worse than it is. I'm sure we all know that steam changed it so they could make more money.

    There isn't much that can be done about the current state of the industry SIMPLY because the games with micro-transactions will always be on top since they're geared towards a more mainstream and casual audience. People like us who play games more than others are more of a minority, so our opinions on the direction of gaming isn't as strong. With that said, there are still great games, they're just harder to find because they aren't getting a lot of attention.

    Also I hope you aren't feeling too down! Everything will be okay!!!
     
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  7. TheouAegis

    TheouAegis Member

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    There are aggregate reviews for a reason. I read through at least 30 reviews anytime I get ready to download something even if it's free. if I want to buy a 3DS game, I will look through a bunch of sites before I buy it. If I want to buy a Wii or PS2 game, I will look through a bunch of sites before I decide if I want to actually pay for it or just download it.

    I mean, let's be serial, here. Fallout 76 got crappy reviews across the board as soon as demos came out. People were dissing on it as soon as a beta came out. yes, there were people that were hyped up for it and excited, but there were just as many if not more people lambasting it. I mean, we're not talking about something like Atari ET that made it to the very top tier expectations of video games for the holiday season.

    The fear of a gaming industry crash is understandable, but the issue isn't a crappy games, it's the apathetic player base. Gaming companies are trying to cater to the widest audience. Konami had its die-hard fans who eagerly anticipated any new game that they would put out. And guess what, they've decided to dump their resources into making slot machines because that's where the money was at. I mean, oh my God have you seen how many slots apps there are? People are that ****ing stupid that they will download a program that lets them play slots even if there's no payout.
     
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  8. Misty

    Misty Member

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    Abrasive feelings means you are very sensitive. Do you know that pearls are created by a bit of sand in an oyster?

    Who feels uncomfortable while watching popular youtube videos of people criticising the spam in the steam marketplace? There are videos with MILLIONS of views criticizing the spam in the steam marketplace. This videos have massive amounts of likes. But there will always be that one guy who finds the videos "abrasive".

    And no the bad stuff is not at the bottom. Some of these garbage games even make the front page. And when you are searching for specific genres of games you have to wade through endless piles of this junk. Call it what it is, a nearly unending abyss of spam. And I don't agree with many of the critics out there anyway. Some of the stuff that passes for "good games" just seems utterly pathetic to me. Sure I wouldn't classify these mediocre games as abysmal spam that needs to be removed from the marketplace. But I don't agree with these people that overly praise mediocre games.

    And in your signature I see a website you advertise called rolybug.com. You may think I'm nitpicking but as a scientist I'm just trying to show you what I mean about this modern mindset. You have a website in your signature that doesn't even go to an actual website, and it's like you don't even care, it's just this lethargic, lackadaisy kind of mindset people have nowadays. Like I shouldn't offend anyone by simply mentioning the sheer mediocrity and spam that is being infested in the marketplace, that I shouldn't make a fuss, that I just need to "chill out" and be more care-free about things and lackadaisy. Stand up straight soldier, and put a link in your signature that actually shows some pride in yourself.

    And if you're wondering, I typed "lackadaisy" instead of lackadaisical, because that's exactly what it is, lacking a Daisy, Daisy who is a tomboy with spunk, life, an aggressive kind of girl in mario, and nowadays people just don't have it anymore, if anyone makes a fuss or stands for something they just get called "abrasive" and told not to make a fuss, to accept the quo, to go along with the plan, even if the plan is horrible.








    I look at these games for hours and hours. It isn't just 5 minutes. But even 5 minutes of these games can be offsetting.

    My opinion is not an obscure view, there are many Youtube videos that agree with me that get Millions of views and likes! You are trying to act like my views are obscure and crazy when there are millions of other people who completely agree with me.


    I thank you for your empathy and kindness. Empathy and kindness is hard to find these days in this society.

    Everything will be okay, as soon as steam puts at least some degree of rudimentary quality control on their website.







    There is no fear of a crash the crash is already happening, its here now, happening. You won't get any tears from me, all these crappy developers with their garbage games can kiss off anyway, they've actually increased my depression and that's arguably even a form of assault, because I got suicidal urges from how bad some of these games are, losing my faith in humanity making me want to kill myself, it's like almost a form of manslaughter, accidental death injury.

    But you also have to consider the time I spend into looking at the reviews of these games, it takes time to browse all those reviews and sometimes even the metascore isn't accurate either, I would even dare say the majority of game reviewers are corrupt as can be and accept barely legal forms of bribes to give good ratings to these games, the amount of reviewers who are truly outsiders are few and far imbetween. You have to realize that some forms of bribes are completely legal, and that many reviewers take these form of bribes such as in the case of developers who know they will get paid trips and vacations if they cater to a studio, and they know if they hand out bad reviews they will be hated by a studio.

    Many of these indie games are so obscure they don't even have official reviews, just a loyal cult of fans who get so excited for these games, these aren't cold and unbiased reviewers but adult babies who group together with the same insane mindset and don't do objective reviews. They see an indie dev who makes a game that's not absolute garbage and then group together like its the new Halo in 1999, meanwhile better indie devs who make solid games get ignored if they don't cater to that adult baby hysterical group think kind of attitude. It's like the new Fortnight, its not a terrible game, but it's like a group of adult babies cling onto that game like its the best thing since bread and butter, and nominate it for game of the year, I would say they're insane except for the fact that the bar has been set so low I can't actually think of a game that would actually deserve to be game of the year. But that is what I mean when I say adult babies and their hysterical mindset.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
  9. RollyBug

    RollyBug Member

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    Lol. I'm changing server hardware and it's been down for less than a day. I'll notify you when it's back up, sarge.
     
  10. Misty

    Misty Member

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    Oh, jolly good then mate.
     
  11. chance

    chance predictably random Forum Staff Moderator

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    It's easy to remove games that are offensive, malicious, pranks, or too buggy to run. But what's the next level of vetting? Bad artwork? Boring gameplay? Those are subjective decisions.

    I do agree that many sites are clogged with bad games. But I suspect my criteria for quality control is different than yours. And therein lies the problem challenge.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
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  12. Sabrina Stoakes

    Sabrina Stoakes Member

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    I honestly think one of the biggest reasons why there are so many bad games is simply because it's just so expensive to make games nowadays and a lot of people don't invest the funds they need to to make their game polished. There's also the added fact that if you're new to game making you're probably going to have less of a sense of quality. Kind of like how mother's love THEIR babies LOL. I'm pretty awful at pixel art, decent at programming, and pretty good at gameplay, so I always end up needing help from friends with my projects, but I've never released anything cause I don't have the money to shell out on artists. POINT IS THOUGH, if we could somehow make getting these resources cheaper, then we'd probably see a lot higher quality in games. That does nothing to take away greedy laziness, but it does get rid of passionate developers making poor decisions, by making them make better decisions.
     
  13. RollyBug

    RollyBug Member

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    I disagree. I've only seen asset prices go down and general availability for that and other resources go up. Paired with more expansive platforming people can now more than ever release a product when they really shouldn't.
     
  14. TheouAegis

    TheouAegis Member

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    Go back and watch old commercials from the 80s and 90s. Video games are not super expensive today. You had to pay $200 just for a NES. Action 52 itself had an MSRP of $199. WarioWare and Mario Party have almost just as many games, much more are actually playable, most are actually entertaining, and they cost 20% to 40% of Action 52's price. And man, when I saw the price for Atari ET on release, I nearly spit out my coffee.

    I think part of the pricing of modern games is a sort of nostalgia by The producers. They remember games being a particular price, so they keep them around that price. The flood of cheap games that are a waste of most of our time are quite possibly making games even cheaper, as producers feel the need to cut costs in order to compete. and it sounds like it's that's the bad thing.
     
  15. Sabrina Stoakes

    Sabrina Stoakes Member

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    I didn't even think about asset packs. Honestly though, I can't imagine being able to use an asset pack for your own ideas. I was mostly referring to hiring artists to make you your own assets/sprite sheets. Either people around me are charging too much, or it's reasonable, but most pixel artists request around $20/hour, which can get into some serious money on even small projects.
     
  16. Misty

    Misty Member

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    Again, not subjective. Game reviews should first and foremost always be objective and never subjective. Part of the problem nowadays is that many game critics believe it's a subjective thing, and so they structure their reviews with all of their subjective biases.

    It's not a subjective opinion that Big Rigs or Superman 64 are terrible games.

    There is a certain threshold that comes into play...some can debate whether or not PUBG is better than Overwatch. But there is a general consensus that those two games have reached a certain "threshold" to where they can be viewed as not being shovelware.

    For instance, I'm not really into aimlessly open ended games like GTA 5. I'm not really into the Sims either. I wouldn't really consider GTA 5 or Sims 4 to be game of the year material. That's my own subjective opinion. But I can objectively recognize those games have a certain level of quality to them that they cannot be classified as "shovelware" titles. Even if I'm not into those games.

    The game industry is now turning into the modern art scene, where everything is viewed as "subjective". First it started out as trolling, DuChamp submitting an actual "toilet" as a prank and joke. Warhol then takes it to the next level, he actually submits a picture of a Cambell's can of soup as an actual work of art, what's next fart paints (actually a thing), what's next random swooshes of paint made by an actual gorilla being certified as a national art gallery...all because who are we to have judgement or any kind of higher culture or taste, we might as well be animals and not have any sense at all, anything and everything allowed to uploaded onto steam. Meanwhile, games which are actual art, banned from steam for being politically incorrect, but I will get into that later. Basically, as long as your game is politically correct enough, it can be literally worse than a game jam entry and still be accepted, we have companies like Digital Homicide and Zonitron Studios pooping out 4 games a week and uploading them to the store, it took them 173 games and them threatening to sue random reviewers (for exercising their first amendment rights) before they finally even got banned...



    There are many reasons why games have a tendency of low quality. Kids these days are raised sheltered and arrogant and it's the IPOD generation of people who think they are all special. So when they make a product they just think it's better than it actually is, they tend not to care or listen to outside opinions and criticism because they thing everything is subjective, everyone lives in their own subjective little IPOD world and people don't believe in an objective reality. When they look at objective reality all they see is war and conflict and so they forment a mentality where everyone has their own truth and that objective values should be discarded entirely.

    That, in addition with the failing economy and increasingly apathetic and/or delusional, and/or hypocritical social attitudes, turning the world into a kind over-industrialized slave system where people are over worked and raised with a slave mindset, over-worked and underpaid, lacking the hope, time and vitality that is needed to become truly great or creative. That, and also the great spiritual divide, where atheists don't have any kind of spirituality whatsoever, contrasted with the religious devotees who are just as close-minded, so there is not very many free-spirit spiritual creative types, most free-spirits are either bullied or ridiculed, and most people are grounded in materialism and/or grounded in dogma.

    Again, you are looking at the tip of the problem and not the cause.

    The cause of the problem is actually too much capitalism and too much wealth divide. The poor class is so much more poor than the rich class they get desperate and deranged, becoming greedier and greedier and producing endless amounts of soulless shovelware, overworked to the point they don't even have enough free time to actually become mentally clear enough to know how to make a decent game, same as with the corporations, employees are pushed and pushed by the whip of their masters to meet deadlines and overperform, the employees that work on their own time usually produce things of better quality, for instance once greedy corrupt Activision took over Halo and Destiny they fired the lead musical composer of halo and the story writer, then hired a slave to take their place and ordered the slave to write them a story under pressure with limited time constraints, nothing good will ever come out of that.

    Isolating poor people and making it even harder for poor people to succeed isn't going to help the problem, instead it will make the game industry even more corrupt and horrible, again I provided the solution that is needed earlier, a simple rudimentary Quality Control mechanism on Steam, this will not outright reject and deny poor people outright but rather guide them and instruct them on the ways of what is the right way to go about making a product, channeling their angst and greed into something productive.


    Sorry, I misread you earlier and agree with you wholeheartedly. But yes there is a market phenomenon called the bidding game, where someone will make a mediocre product and sell it for cheap, while people who make quality products try to compete by marketing their product as even cheaper than the mediocre product, this kind of thing can often lead to markets collapse, in the 1920's America collapsed because there were too many farmers in the market competing with each other.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
  17. Sabrina Stoakes

    Sabrina Stoakes Member

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    BIG RELATE. I used to defend a lot of people getting bullied and it'd always blow up in my face, so I tend to just offer emotional support to people being treated unfairly now. There's a lot of, "callout" mentalities now because it's currently trendy. Trends have also kind of made a lot of people think that fitting in is all that matters now too, so when you combine that with the fact that people love to call others out, you can't make any mistakes without being outcasted entirely. :(
     
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  18. Misty

    Misty Member

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    Yeah pretty much, its kind of turning into a borg hive where people don't even respect basic privacy rights and our corporate masters tell us "Don't do anything wrong if you don't want people to know", next they will putting implants in our brain and making it illegal to take it out, even thinking certain kinds of "thoughts" will be illegal as everyone is forced to conform into a marxist goodie two shoes with no thoughts except the thoughts the AI tells them to think.
     
  19. chance

    chance predictably random Forum Staff Moderator

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    Are these examples you'd remove from (say) Steam based on your desire for "quality control" ? If so, I think you'd find yourself out of business. Not saying these are good or bad games. But they are playable and reasonably popular.

    I don't think you've properly considered the practical day-to-day challenge of enforcing quality control, as you described in your opening post.
     
  20. RollyBug

    RollyBug Member

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    So now you're talking about the economy (USA I assume). I only skimmed your recent responses to other people though from what I've gathered this is new territory, so it feels like you're ignoring the argument I presented. We have to first agree on a problem before we seek the solution.

    Everything you said in that first paragraph is hyperbolic at best and nonsense at worst. I originally posted mostly just to tell you to stop being so hyperbolic and nonsensical. I'd rather discuss than read your rants. Understand that I don't even disagree that Steam should have higher QC. Might be a good thing. I don't see it happening as they would make a lot less money.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2019
  21. Misty

    Misty Member

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    Okay, someone just said bigrigs and superman 64 are playable and reasonably popular. I'm officially done with this conversation, I feel like I'm being trolled by mods, mods are the trolls lol

    You keep making this about money. Which is the problem, we live in a materialistic society that doesn't have real ethics or values.

    Heaven help it if valve has to actually hire an employee and pay them money to monitor quality control...

    If the steam economy crashes from being flooded by spammy games, then valve won't have much money, let me talk about about a guy, his name was Wolf on Wall Street, all Wolf on Wall Street on cared about was money and look where that got him, its like he's a character in a fable in a fairy tale...it's not about the money but it is, because spammy games spam detract money from actual indie developers. Scrooge ethics don't make utopias and the argument shouldn't be about money but yet it is, and yet it is about money because with all this spam and oversaturation the market will crash just like it did in the 20's, its just math, just mammalian dynamics.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2019
  22. Druid TC

    Druid TC Yellow Dog

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    Ever heard of a 'cult following'?
     
  23. Misty

    Misty Member

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    Yes, in fact its one of the problems I complained about, in this very thread.
     
  24. Druid TC

    Druid TC Yellow Dog

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    You complained that they exist, yes. But doesn't the fact that they do exist counter your argument that games can be objectively bad? People enjoy weird things like soap operas and gin, and - to bring the argument round - Big Rigs and Superman 64. Granted there's probably a hefty amount of irony involved but are you really saying that any game people enjoy in an ironic way should be purged from society? Why does it make any difference whether people enjoy something ironically or unironically, as long as they're enjoying it? Isn't that the point of games as a whole?
     
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  25. Misty

    Misty Member

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    Anyone who genuinely enjoys bigrigs is mentally insane. There are trolls who make videos saying garbage games are good, but they eventually admit that they are not "good" in any real sense, but so "bad" that it is is good at being a philosophy piece, of making us question our own sanity.

    I don't believe in censorship, so maybe steam should have like a garbage bin for people who are really, really interested in checking out the art of the garbage game, sort of like an exploring history kind of thing so that it's preserved.
     
  26. chance

    chance predictably random Forum Staff Moderator

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    Seems like your position is evolving. Given a bit more time, maybe you'll decide that Steam is fine as it is, after all.
     
  27. Misty

    Misty Member

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    My position didn't evolve, that was already considered at the very beginning.

    The amount of games being released each year has increased exponentially. How overcrowded until you realize there is a problem? Overpopulation is a real thing, I don't know if you are a person who doesn't believe in overpopulation, but overpopulation is a problem and many act like it isn't a problem.
     
  28. RollyBug

    RollyBug Member

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    You don't actually think that. You've been adamantly arguing for censorship in vetting. Not to mention that this compromise, should you call it that, is obviously impractical as it would be demeaning for the developers and produce massive amounts of bad publicity, among other reasons.

    e- Hah, sniped by Chance.
     
  29. chance

    chance predictably random Forum Staff Moderator

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    @Misty: So what is your position here? As you said in your first post: "but I do think steam needs to at least implement a rudimentary level of quality control".

    Not trying to corner you. I'm honestly curious what you would do. How do we allow good games to be seen, without discouraging beginners (too much)? Steam does a pretty fair job of promoting good games, while still giving beginners an opportunity for some visibility. What specifically would you change?
     
  30. TheouAegis

    TheouAegis Member

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    Big Rigs is bugged to the point it doesn't even play right and crashes. People "play it" to laugh at it. S64 is just a bad game, but playable. Buggy glitchy garbage like Goat Simulator that are enjoyably bad are one thing. Big Rigs is just atrocious as it had one goal and - a racing game - and couldn't even pull off the basics of that. Playing Need For Speed on the Sega Saturn backwards is glitching out a playable racing game intentionally; Big Rigs glitches out unintentionally as soon as the truck's engine starts. It's like Active Enterprises made Big Rigs, it's so bad, but amazingly it was by Russians.
     
  31. Misty

    Misty Member

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    I forgot this is the liberal hand holding generation of extreme narcissists who will sue people for disliking their games. I get it, some insane guy makes a really, crappy game as his first amateur attempt at game's design, game gets rejected from the store, then guy goes on a narcissistic rage against valve and makes a complete controversy.

    This is the age of participation medals and kids being told platitudes of how everyone has their own "truth", so I get how sensitive it is, someone is bound to make a fuss if their garbage game is denied.

    As I said before I don't believe in censorship, people should be allowed to make whatever games they want, but if they make a bigrigs it goes into the garbage bin category, there should be a seperate category of "Non approved games play at your own risk" kind of shovelware category/warning on the website. The shovelware shouldn't be bundled with the decent games. Like a search option you can click "Filter out shovelware". Sort of like with google safe-search.


    This is not really that hard. In the courts juries and judges decide the fates of entire people and their lives. Denying a steam game is a lot less serious. People's entire lives is decided by the whims of a judge or jury. So I don't think this is nearly as serious as that. If someone thinks a steam judge is being unfair they can always appeal their case and ask for a different judge, or community vote.

    There are games on steam as glitchy as big rigs, yet still allowed.
     
  32. chance

    chance predictably random Forum Staff Moderator

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    What would be the criteria for submissions to be dumped in the "shovelware" category?

    Again, not saying it couldn't work, if done right. I'm just trying to get some discussion going about the details. It's easy to say games should be vetted / sorted. It's harder to define the sorting criteria.

    EDIT: beyond the obvious criteria I listed in post #11
     
  33. Misty

    Misty Member

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    I told you, it would be decided by a judge. People's entire lives are decided by judges and juries, which doesn't seem fair. Yet society says it is acceptable for some sheepish reason. Steam is a lot less serious than that. So why shouldn't it also be decided by juries and judges. If they feel they are being treated unfairly they can ask for an appeal or a second judge.

    The criterion would be 20 points for sound and music quality. 20 points for graphics quality. 20 points for gameplay and controls quality. 20 points for overall atmosphere, vibe, presentation, story etc.

    So a total of 80 points. If they don't score more than 32 points its rejected.
     
  34. RollyBug

    RollyBug Member

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    Come on, tell us what you really think :)
     
  35. Misty

    Misty Member

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    I did.
     
  36. RollyBug

    RollyBug Member

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    I was referring to you thinking Steam should implement a system that you deem sheepish.

    As for your edit, I'm not a fan of the seemingly arbitrary values but maybe that'd be somewhat inevitable. How would the process work? The "jury" community grades and the "judge" moderator reviews and passes or puts to death?
     
  37. Misty

    Misty Member

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    Wow.

    I was just using sheepish to refer to Americans who don't even put up a fuss about how rigged the system is. I wasn't referring to all systems in general, it is possible to have a fair and unbiased system that isn't corrupt. Steam doesn't seem to be corrupt, just lazy. There would need to be a panel of judges who review games before they are uploaded to the marketplace. To save on resources, only one judge would be needed per game. Using the score system I mentioned earlier.
     
  38. chance

    chance predictably random Forum Staff Moderator

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    If a judges' panel could agree on what constitutes "quality", as well as good atmosphere and story, etc., this might have a chance. But these criteria are unavoidably subjective.

    There won't be any controversy over truly exceptional games and truly bad games. But deciding what to do with average games will cause judge fatigue and lead to an uneven decision process. The boundary line will shift back and forth over time, and eventually creep downward.

    Ultimately, the effort will be abandoned, and replaced with a simple criteria based on "offensive, illegal, pranks, etc."
     
  39. Druid TC

    Druid TC Yellow Dog

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    Steam games are already judged for quality. Players judge by submitting their reviews and ratings, and games with good ratings and high play volumes are pushed to the front of the store. Those without disappear way down where you won't find them unless you specifically go looking for them.
     
    chance likes this.
  40. Misty

    Misty Member

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    I already said what to do with the "average" games. Sadly, average games will have to be accepted in the interest of civil liberties.

    Heaven help it if valve actually has to help employees become gainfully employed. You mention a slippery slope where steam will (possibly) just start arbitrarily deciding which game is too offensive or not PC enough.... That's a big assumption they will do that, in the past Steam has been very lax about that and basically don't censor games at all unless there's a public outcry. And if steam eventually does that don't blame me, I can't be blamed for every single mistake a company makes, I don't run the company, I am not my brother's keeper, I have no control over what they do. It's hard enough to get them to follow my advice as is.

    Randoms cannot be trusted to make reliable reviews. Many randoms are scrubs or adult babies who upvote anything that caters to their fancy. Like they see a bunch of indie games that are trash, then run into an indie game that is just barely decent and act like the game is a drip of water in a desert. Also, some guy might have a grudge and just downvote a dev out of a grudge or because he is the competition. Or some guy is having a bad day, finds one minor yet irritating flaw in the game, and wakes up on the wrong side of the bed so just downvotes games without really giving them fair reviews.
     
  41. RollyBug

    RollyBug Member

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    Are you saying you've actually gotten in contact with the people that run Steam?
     
  42. Misty

    Misty Member

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    No I haven't, I wanted to show them that the community agrees with me first, but so far no such luck.
     
  43. ethian

    ethian Member

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    Talking about bad games, huh?
     
  44. Misty

    Misty Member

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    yup
     
  45. Ninety

    Ninety Member

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    $20/hour is fairly entry level... artists gotta eat too yo...
     
    RichHopefulComposer likes this.
  46. RichHopefulComposer

    RichHopefulComposer Member

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    Big Rigs is "playable?" Excuse me, but what? :p
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
    Misty likes this.
  47. chance

    chance predictably random Forum Staff Moderator

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    My mistake. I recognized those names and thought they where regular commercial games.

    I was making the point that rejecting games based on subjective quality standards isn't practical. It works for the very worst games (offensive, pranks, etc.). But it isn't practical for day-to-day vetting of games that are honest attempts that have some flaws.

    As @Druid TC said above, a better approach is to let ratings decide. Highly rated games rise to the top, and very poor games disappear down the list. This approach isn't perfect, and may be abused. But it's a better approach IMO than expecting a panel of judges to check every game submission and decide "yes or no".
     
    MissingNo. likes this.
  48. Sabrina Stoakes

    Sabrina Stoakes Member

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    Yes, but so do I LOL
     
    RichHopefulComposer likes this.
  49. RichHopefulComposer

    RichHopefulComposer Member

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    No problem about Big Rigs, hahah. Why do you say a curated store isn't practical, though? It's how Steam worked for like a decade (or more?), and it's how consoles have worked for over thirty years. Curated stores definitely work! Whether or not they work better than Steam's current system is up for debate. Personally, *I* enjoy shopping curated stores more.

    Better start learning to draw then! ;p
     
  50. chance

    chance predictably random Forum Staff Moderator

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    Curated stores are practical. And a curated "front page" of selected games works fine too.

    But we aren't talking about that here. We're discussing Misty's original suggestion that Steam institute "quality control" to eliminate bad games from the general submissions list.
     

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