See ya!I'm done doing an ELI5 for you.
That's fair, I suppose.My whole point was that there may be reasons that some of us aren't considering. Anyhow this has been addressed by iampremo and confirmed there are potential issues which is why they have you contact customer support.
Any estimate on when this will corrected?I see that 2.3.6 broke importing strip images and renaming texture pages, nice.
How does the inability to cancel a subscription without contacting customer service prevent someone from doing a chargeback? Maybe this doesn't work the same everywhere in the world, but if I wanted to attempt a chargeback, it would be done through the credit card company - whatever account management systems the place I'd be doing the chargeback on had in place would be irrelevant.But that's not what I'm saying. I'm talking about downloading the free version working for x amount of time until you finish your game, then subscribing to indie or enterprise, exporting your game, then cancelling subscription and do a charge back. Just because you are talking about something different doesn't mean there isn't an exploit. You just chose not to acknowledge the exploit and that's on you. Your Netflix analogy is pretty terrible because the same exploit doesn't apply there so you are comparing apples and oranges.
There definitely are subscription that work like this, EA Play and Game Pass being the two I know of personally - though EA Play is now rolled into Game Pass Ultimate and not a seperate subscription like it used to be.Again, using the Netflix analogy, it’s not possible to watch all of your favourite shows, cancel after two weeks, and expect a full refund. That’s not how subscriptions work.
Exactly!The way I'd expect YYG to handle it (and from what I've read, this will be the case) would be like other subs I have where you can cancel without any problem but the subscription is always for the full month. So if you cancelled on the 6th Jan then you would still be subscribed all through January but come February you wouldn't be charged and would no longer be subscribed.
It seemed like the opposite to me and you were struggling/weren't aware that there are subscriptions that you can cancel and they refund the cost of the month (which can be and is abused as I explained above) and so were shooting him down like he was talking about some alien concept that didn't exist.Same as my Netflix example that Cameron was struggling with.
You subscribe for a month, you get a month, regardless of when you apply for the cancellation. Impossible to abuse under those conditions.
And to boot - their Mac support is broken on M1 under the latest OS releases and ZERO comment from YoYo as to 1) how to fix or 2) when it will be fixed.Wow, so i have payed multiple hundreds for a full version of Game Maker Studio 2, 1.4 & 7 but i don't get all the features. Well that is a slap in the face. When I purchased Game Maker Studio 2 I was expecting all features forever.
It makes me really worried for future updates and qhat else is going to be put behind a subscription paywall. I'm thinking after 14 years of Game Maker it's finally getting time to switch my main engine.
And to boot - their Mac support is broken on M1 under the latest OS releases and ZERO comment from YoYo as to 1) how to fix or 2) when it will be fixed.
Not to mention if a user cancles a member ship it can just turn off the reoccurring billing not a instant refundAnd what’s wrong with that? Every other subscription service I can think of works that way.
What you are proposing is that people should be ‘locked in’. Why? It’s a subscription. That’s what a subscription is! Pay when you need it. No different from Netflix.
If YYG wants to play the subscription game, end users will too. Develop the game for three years, subscribe for one month, export, sell the game, and win.
Us perma-license plebs won’t look as second class in the long run.
2.3.6 is working and I'm able to build projects on my M1 Mac (Monterey). Give it a reinstall if you're having issues.MacOS support appears broken to boot on the latest M1 and OSes. I wonder if YoYo is trying to self destruct?
I don't think "Alien" quite fits the bill. "Outdated" is probably more accurate.It seemed like the opposite to me and you were struggling/weren't aware that there are subscriptions that you can cancel and they refund the cost of the month (which can be and is abused as I explained above) and so were shooting him down like he was talking about some alien concept that didn't exist.
I meant that it seemed alien (ie. strange) to Nobody as the replies they were making about the risk of people abusing subscriptions that Cameron was trying to explain were along the lines of "subscriptions don't work like that" and "you're making things up that can't/don't happen" (not exact quotes but close enough) which isn't true because me and my mates have done exactly that for years with 2 subscription services because a refund was offered when cancelling before the month was up.I don't think "Alien" quite fits the bill. "Outdated" is probably more accurate.
See my posts on M1 and GM2 that have gone unanswered on all the issues I've experienced with the M1. So, not only is my zero comment true, it is patently true. Along with my unanswered posts ("zero comment") in this forum, here is ticket I submitted 2 months go, also unanswered ("zero comment"). I've paid hundreds ($$$) for these licenses, so feel free to interpret my criticism and tone however you like.Here is some discussion about M1, so you "zero comment" is false.Apple Silicon / ARM GMS2 IDE Discussion
I have used GMS2 on my M1 MacBook Pro using Rosetta translation extensively and works great. However, the first Rosetta dropped support a few years after it was released during the previous transition. So, if an ARM version is not released if/when Rosetta 2 drops support, then GM will no longer...forum.yoyogames.com
Also no need such hostility, you can discuss with more civilized manner.
Reinstalling doesn't fix the issue. YoYo needs to fix the issue. My systems are clean.2.3.6 is working and I'm able to build projects on my M1 Mac (Monterey). Give it a reinstall if you're having issues.
/bin/bash DONE (0)
/bin/bash -c "cd ~ && open -n -a /Users/jason/gamemakerstudio2/GMS2MAC/TEST003/TEST003.app --args -debugoutput \"/Users/jason/gamemakerstudio2/GMS2MAC/TEST003/debug.log\" -output \"/Users/jason/gamemakerstudio2/GMS2MAC/TEST003/debug.log\" -runTest"
The application /Users/jason/gamemakerstudio2/GMS2MAC/TEST003/TEST003.app cannot be opened for an unexpected reason, error=Error Domain=NSCocoaErrorDomain Code=260 "The file “TEST003.app” couldn’t be opened because there is no such file." UserInfo={NSURL=file:///Users/jason/gamemakerstudio2/GMS2MAC/TEST003/TEST003.app, NSFilePath=/Users/jason/gamemakerstudio2/GMS2MAC/TEST003/TEST003.app, NSUnderlyingError=0x7fb91a00b610 {Error Domain=NSPOSIXErrorDomain Code=2 "No such file or directory"}}
/bin/bash exited with non-zero status (1)
elapsed time 00:00:15.5804960s for command "/Library/Frameworks/Mono.framework/Versions/Current/Commands/mono" /Users/Shared/GameMakerStudio2/Cache/runtimes/runtime-2.3.6.464/bin/Igor.exe -j=8 -options="/private/tmp/PKInstallSandbox.Tq1odY/GameMakerStudio2/GMS2TEMP/build.bff" -v -- Mac Run started at 11/02/2021 23:39:26
FAILED: Run Program Complete
I'm sorry Russell, but I fail to understand what exactly is competitive or compelling about this new model.We know that our users want game making to be as cheap as possible and we feel that we are providing a competitive and compelling offering and we have been generous in our subscription provision for all perpetual users
Very good points you've made. Agree!I'm sorry Russell, but I fail to understand what exactly is competitive or compelling about this new model.
Game Maker's audience are hobbyists and indie developers. Despite the attempts in recent years to try and expand Game Maker Studio's target audience, the engine just isn't up to snuff to be adopted by the larger professional industry like Unity or Unreal Engine. The reason why Game Maker was still considered a viable option for all these years despite the alternatives was because of its ease-of-use and relatively low price, and now that that latter point is moot when Game Maker has switched to a subscription model you're driving away your target audience and making it a less attractive engine for newcomers and professionals alike. How exactly is this model supposed to be competitive or compelling for anyone when Unity or Unreal Engine are effectively free for most independent developers (and Godot is completely free), and professional developers don't want to bother with subscription models for objectively worse products? A studio like Adobe can get away with it despite grumbling from customers because their products are industry standards, Game Maker is decidedly not.
I don't know why anyone thought this model was a good move and I don't want to assume malice, but typically the model goes "hook in customers first, then price-gauge them". This seems very much backwards. It doesn't matter if this new model makes Game Maker cheaper in practice, nor does it matter that the model is pretty generous* and that you're not technically paywalling features*. People look at the words "subscription model" and "only available to subscribers at launch" and turn the other way because subscriptions are a pain in the ass and people want to avoid them as much as possible, simple as. Even some of the most hardcore Game Maker loyalists I've known are changing engines because of it and I've stopped seeing anyone recommend it to newcomers. That really should be worrying someone at the top at least.
* A bit of better communication there would've gone a long way too :V
And here's answer why Unity and GMS need to have different payment models. Unity is so complex, that they can earn money from big fishes which are making AAA games, while Indie devs would be a margin in that case. GMS have totally no interest in AAA studios (except of some prototyping sometimes), so needs different earnings model. Getting royalties from released games would rather reject customers than attract them at this level, and releasing "new" version every 4-5 years and increasing major number just to get new funds is also idea with no future, as even now we can see that many users still uses 1.4 version, cause paying $100,$200 or even more at once was too much for them.Game Maker's audience are hobbyists and indie developers. Despite the attempts in recent years to try and expand Game Maker Studio's target audience, the engine just isn't up to snuff to be adopted by the larger professional industry like Unity or Unreal Engine.
Granted. I did acknowledge it's (technically) cheaper, I just don't think consumers will care in the context of a subscription model.In YYG's defense, this new package is definitely a lot more affordable overall than the old model.
The problem is that while this subscription model definitely makes more sense for Yoyo and Opera, there isn't enough incentive for the consumers to actually use it. Game Maker Studio's biggest selling point is being the easiest to use engine, a role which seems to be slowly getting usurped by Godot, and from my (and my peers') experience Yoyo's support and SDKs are among the worst I've encountered in the industry. There's just no good reason for anyone to stick with GMS or make the switch to it.Granted, over a span of several years, the total cost might end up being higher, but as Russell said, the nature of the beast simply means that a onetime payment isn't viable in the long run.
We'll have to see if this new subscription model will keep this trend going. I'm very curious.Now, I don't have any numbers, but while you're correct that the majority of GM users have - historically seen - been amateurs and hobbyists, we're seeing a rise of commercially successful small - to medium sized indie developer studios, who are seeing this commercial success utilized via GMS2 (and its many supported platforms - one area where their nearest comparable competitors struggle). These developers are likely to be developing for at least one or more consoles, in which case they would have been on the old "Ultimate" license - and with the recent changes, those developers are seeing significant savings (about 50% last I checked) compared to the old license.
That's a good point. It's certainly bizarre that Game Maker Studio doesn't even have a proper bug tracker anymore (among the other issues I've mentioned before). You'd think a subscription model would be a good justification to improve on those weak points now that Yoyo has a more reliable source of income, but...I'd just wish we could get some sort of acknowledgement of the stability issues, and how they intend to handle the insane jump in update frequency, when they haven't been able to handle it with 5 times less frequent updates so far.
If we as customers accept the constant income stream as a necessary evil (which I do), then YYG must in turn accept a much higher responsibility of a consistent, reliable stability with their updates. You are trying to cater to a more serious audience now - which is good. But show us that you're up to the task. You can't keep doing what you did before with this model. Or, you can, but I sincerely doubt it will end well for anyone.
Which is why I'm not saying GMS should simply adopt the model of Unity/Unreal. I acknowledge that absolutely would not work.And here's answer why Unity and GMS need to have different payment models. Unity is so complex, that they can earn money from big fishes which are making AAA games, while Indie devs would be a margin in that case. GMS have totally no interest in AAA studios (except of some prototyping sometimes), so needs different earnings model.
That's absolutely not an issue if Unity and Unreal Engine's high adoption rates among both indies and professionals are anything to go by, you just gotta do it smartly.Getting royalties from released games would rather reject customers than attract them at this level,
If your customers think that paying $200 one time is too much, a subscription model will not change their minds, however.and releasing "new" version every 4-5 years and increasing major number just to get new funds is also idea with no future, as even now we can see that many users still uses 1.4 version, cause paying $100,$200 or even more at once was too much for them.
In theory anyway.Just that alone is a significant undertaking that will never stop, which means the income stream has to be more consistent and constant.
I don't agree with the premise. Yes, that is some of GMS appeal, but it is just as much the relatively ease of multi-platform support for a very good selection of platforms.The problem is that while this subscription model definitely makes more sense for Yoyo and Opera, there isn't enough incentive for the consumers to actually use it. Game Maker Studio's biggest selling point is being the easiest to use engine, a role which seems to be slowly getting usurped by Godot
I completely agree with this. I remember when they let users report directly to Mantis. Then they weeded out most people's access and reserved only for developers making consistent quality reports, and then ultimately removed our access altogether. I understand that they did it because many people made really bad reports, so instead they had the cheaper QA staff sort of "vet" reports before greenlighting them further into the actual mantis system for the more expensive tech staff. I get it, but it also introduced another layer between "us" and "them", which has negatively affected me more than once (which is something I feel extra because I was one of the last non-YYG developers who had access to mantis before they removed it completely - the difference in response quality now is huge).That's a good point. It's certainly bizarre that Game Maker Studio doesn't even have a proper bug tracker anymore (among the other issues I've mentioned before). You'd think a subscription model would be a good justification to improve on those weak points now that Yoyo has a more reliable source of income, but
I have to believe that this is accounted for as part of their business strategy. I don't think they expect the majority of subscribers, be they indie or enterprise, to be fully subscribed 12 out of 12 months. Some will, but I have to believe they expect that most will try to go for only subbing the months they need.I remember back when people jumped up and down about the Console exporters being around $1000 for one year. Even then, Mike and Russell were advising people to only subscribe when it’s coming near to time to release. They said it was silly to pay $1000 for five years (over the life of dev for said console game) and to subscribe when closer to release.
I fear the same might apply here, causing the whole idea to backfire. Develop a game for a year or two on the free package, then subscribe for a month or two closer to release.
In the end YYG makes $20 over two years. Whereas the same dev would have been happy to drop a couple of hundred on the perma license.
That is a good selling point, but not the biggest one for GMS' target audience I imagine. For hobbyists/indies, releasing a game on just one platform is a huge ordeal.I don't agree with the premise. Yes, that is some of GMS appeal, but it is just as much the relatively ease of multi-platform support for a very good selection of platforms.
Oh I absolutely agree, which is the biggest reason why I haven't bothered with Godot ye. The problem is that Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft are understandably very reluctant to make their SDKs open source. Godot is stuck for the foreseeable future between having to give up its open source license to obtain proper console support, or having to stay PC/web/mobile only. If they did the former, they'd have to abandon a lot of their current audience in the hopes that enough new people will stick around, which is a large gamble.Yes, Godot is incredibly easy to use (especially if you're already a seasoned GML developer), and honestly, I see it as GMS most direct and comparable competitor. They do a lot of things very, very well. But console support sure isn't one of them - it is laughable at best, and nonexistent at worst. As someone who has given Godot a serious try, and liked what I saw, but who also develops commercially, my conclusion was that Godot just isn't a serious alternative until / if they get their console support together.
That would make the most sense, but as sorry as I am to say it I just don't see it ever happening. The higher ups in the AAA industry would gladly agree to a subscription model if it ends up cheaper for them than having to pay royalties, but the only way you're gonna convince a professional developer to stick with your engine is if it's actually competitive. If the updates over the last few years are any indication then it's clear Yoyo is trying to make GMS a (relatively) more competitive engine, but it's still far away from being as flexible and powerful as Unity and UE are. Plus professional devs would absolutely not accept how lousy the exports, support and bug tracking are.This in my perception also makes a stronger case for why YYG should be pivoting to cater to more commercially focused developers, since Godot right now seems to occupy more the hobbyist space that GMS once did.
"Unity Technologies published its financial results for Q2 2021, reporting a 48% increase in revenue year-on-year, reaching $273.6 million. But GAAP loss from operations was still high, at $149.2 million, representing 55% of revenue.""Unity went public in September 2020, and reported a record year boosted by the COVID-19 pandemic, despite losses. The company's IPO filing, released last summer, revealed that it's not actually profitable, with execs then reporting that profitability was expected by 2023."
Not actually profitable and we're talking about Unity, the engine with by far the most customers.
Oh, I think this happens to me too, but I never bothered at all as long as the project is created on Xcode. My understanding is that If you’re using YYC on Mac you are basically forced to proceed through Xcode anyways to perform the final tweaks, add the hardened runtime, make the package, codesign, notarize etc.Reinstalling doesn't fix the issue. YoYo needs to fix the issue. My systems are clean.View attachment 44102
The persistent error when running on MacOS M1 Monterey compiled as YYC:
Code:/bin/bash DONE (0) /bin/bash -c "cd ~ && open -n -a /Users/jason/gamemakerstudio2/GMS2MAC/TEST003/TEST003.app --args -debugoutput \"/Users/jason/gamemakerstudio2/GMS2MAC/TEST003/debug.log\" -output \"/Users/jason/gamemakerstudio2/GMS2MAC/TEST003/debug.log\" -runTest" The application /Users/jason/gamemakerstudio2/GMS2MAC/TEST003/TEST003.app cannot be opened for an unexpected reason, error=Error Domain=NSCocoaErrorDomain Code=260 "The file “TEST003.app” couldn’t be opened because there is no such file." UserInfo={NSURL=file:///Users/jason/gamemakerstudio2/GMS2MAC/TEST003/TEST003.app, NSFilePath=/Users/jason/gamemakerstudio2/GMS2MAC/TEST003/TEST003.app, NSUnderlyingError=0x7fb91a00b610 {Error Domain=NSPOSIXErrorDomain Code=2 "No such file or directory"}} /bin/bash exited with non-zero status (1) elapsed time 00:00:15.5804960s for command "/Library/Frameworks/Mono.framework/Versions/Current/Commands/mono" /Users/Shared/GameMakerStudio2/Cache/runtimes/runtime-2.3.6.464/bin/Igor.exe -j=8 -options="/private/tmp/PKInstallSandbox.Tq1odY/GameMakerStudio2/GMS2TEMP/build.bff" -v -- Mac Run started at 11/02/2021 23:39:26 FAILED: Run Program Complete
With all due respect, their IPO filing has all the numbers, their executives stated they AIM to be profitable by 2023, it is irrelevant how does that "sound" to you. They have been in the red practically forever and still are. Do you even know what that "$149.2 m" that you quoted represents?"Unity Technologies published its financial results for Q2 2021, reporting a 48% increase in revenue year-on-year, reaching $273.6 million. But GAAP loss from operations was still high, at $149.2 million, representing 55% of revenue."
Unity also gets paid grants by numerous companies including Nintendo. Doesn't sound that unprofitable to me.
You got me there. Admittedly I'm in game development, not in finances. If I were, I wouldn't need to worry about a measly subscription model cost.With all due respect, their IPO filing has all the numbers, their executives stated they AIM to be profitable by 2023, it is irrelevant how does that "sound" to you. They have been in the red practically forever and still are. Do you even know what that "$149.2 m" that you quoted represents?
Try these:
Unity Software Reports a $145M Net Loss in Its First Post-IPO Earnings Report – ARCHIVE - The Esports Observer
Video game development platform and technology firm Unity Software published its first quarterly earnings report since raising $1.3B USD by going public in September. During the third quarter of 2020, the company generated total net revenues of $201M, up 53.3% from $131M in the same period of...archive.esportsobserver.com
Their revenue went up substantially? Thank god! But so did their losses. I HOPE, FINGERS CROSSED, they steer it to actual profitability in 2023.
And I am hoping for the same for Yoyo/Opera.
i personally used 1.4 for a long time after gms2 was released, not because of the price but the reason was that i tested gms2 and i hated the new "zoomin-zoomout-pan-UI-workspace"... installed gms2 but changed back to 1.4 the same day....we can see that many users still uses 1.4 version...
This is a guaranteed failure!!! Especially with YYC and HTML5 exports. Those exports are "picky" and you should build your projects with them very often throughout the duration of the development. If you develop the whole project using only test builds, when the time come to make the final build with the above mentioned exports, it is very possible to encounter issues that are either untraceable or issues that might force you to rewrite certain parts of your code. Either cases are BIG hassles, time consuming and risky...Download free version of GMS2. Build game for free with the game engine. "Buy" a subscription. Export project. Cancel subscription and do a charge back. Free game export.
this was great idea for DnD users. I'm happy that after 4 years they finally noticed that, and there will be a way to choose new workspaces soon (it's in pre-production state).but i still hate the "zoomin-out-workspace",
so that's why they keeps regression bugs between stable versions?This is a guaranteed failure!!!
Appreciate the reply, but this is new, YYC worked before (and it still works on Windows). Also, it is very nice to have all the backend work done in the GM2 editor without having to jump in Xcode to compile and run. That convenience (of running compiled, not virtualized) improves development and testing time.Oh, I think this happens to me too, but I never bothered at all as long as the project is created on Xcode. My understanding is that If you’re using YYC on Mac you are basically forced to proceed through Xcode anyways to perform the final tweaks, add the hardened runtime, make the package, codesign, notarize etc.
Thanks a million.Features and Effects will be enabled for all paid users.
Honestly, I'm not sure what they could say. They recently expanded their team by a sizable degree and have been only recently pushing for monthly releases.Now, still no response in regards to stability?
We do not need to update the Steam Version as the changes are all related to the license so the software does not need to change.Is the Steam version gonna be updated?
I have GMS2 in there
It was mentioned that you have to log out and log back in again.......did you do that?Asked because I opened GMS2 and I can't use effects yet.
Thanks anyway