OFFICIAL GameMaker Studio 2 Version 2.3.6 Release & More

[FoxyOfJungle]

Well, I know it can be frustrating not having Filters and Effects for non-subscribers, but we can still create our own shaders, or even download from Marketplace, you can even find free or paid with better qualities.
I find this system most useful for people who haven't had contact with these things yet or just want to put the effect right there effortlessly.

 

[Andrey]

Visual effects are a very cool innovation! You guys are great!

I hope someday the audio engine will get real-time effects!

 

[Deleted member 16767]

Tbh, I have nothing against p2convenience stuff. But if they gray that export for desktop I'll be disappointed. I've worked hard on my app too, and I don't earn as much as them and I'm alone too. So yeah, disappointment would engulf me absolutely.

 

[ImakeAdultGames]

Well, I know it can be frustrating not having Filters and Effects for non-subscribers, but we can still create our own shaders, or even download from Marketplace, you can even find free or paid with better qualities.
I find this system most useful for people who haven't had contact with these things yet or just want to put the effect right there effortlessly.

Nobody is upset about the filters. They are worried what this division between paid and subscription model will hold in the future. Like, if the GMS gets the much needed upgrades to keep it up to date with it's copetitors, for example real time audio fx or inbuilt skeletal animation editor, will those be subscriber only ? (And yes, I know - we will never get those.)

 

[Nocturne]

I have to agree with everyone that is worried about non-sub users missing out on future features, as GMS2 has ALWAYS been provided under the condition that the pay-once-own-forever licence covered ALL FUTURE UPDATES TO THE IDE AND RUNTIME IN THE 2.x LIFETIME. For YoYo Games to go back on that now would be a massive misstep for them and destroy all shred of goodwill that they have gained over the years.

HOWEVER...

This is NOT what has been stated so far. They have said, fairly clearly I think, that the new features will come to the permanent licence holders after a period of time has passed. While this may seem morally a bit dubious to some, it is still keeping up their side of the ToS/EULA and previously stated agreements. I can also understand their point of view on this perfectly... Subscription is the future for the product, that much is obvious, and so they want to encourage people to move to that as soon as possible, and also give a small "thank you" to those that have already, in the form of first access to new features. I think that this is perfectly understandable and really don't have an issue with it, as long as the permanent licence holders get access to these updates eventually (although I would like to think that "eventually" means sooner rather than later!).

I would also point out that YYG have, so far, been almost always true to their word on things and have - to the best they can - fulfilled their promises to the userbase. They are also one of the few companies that actively interacts with the users through the forums and other medium like Discord and are aware of how people feel about things and do take that into consideration. I have no doubt at all that they will fulfil what they've been promising all these years and that 2.x users of all licence types will get access to all 2.x features, some sooner, some later.

 

[FoxyOfJungle]

As long as the features reach old users, so there is no problem encouraging people to subscribe and get these new features first. So everyone leaves happy.
It's like choosing between going to the movie theater or waiting for a Blu-ray release.

 

[SnortySnoopy]

... and also if I decided to stop using the subbscription what will happen with the projects that those features were active? are they going to get removed for my build?.....

I think this is a valid concern for currently introduced feature and any future ones. Once a user's subscription expires, they get locked out of those behind paywall features they already incorporated into their project, no? What will happen to their ongoing project? That locked out feature used can't be edited until they pay again? - kind of like a hostage situation? Sounds to me the project that uses such feature will either break or go haywire if they don't keep the subscription active? Scary prospect! How will GMS2 avoid such situation where from the start of the introduction of the subscription base - users are told that they may use GMS for absolutely FREE and only pay when they need to do a build? Have Yoyogames considered the possibility someone is making a project using those behind paywall features while in active subscription but withhold renewing until they feel ready to build their app?

I don't mind subscription based users getting to taste new features ahead of permanent users. It's easy to just consider them being the "beta tester". But I think all features should be made available to the permanent license holders even at a later date. But the message sent out said only part of it will be made available to us, that sucks! I think the proper approach should have been : only part of the features will be available to free users at some point, but all those features will be available to permanent license users.

 

[FeetUpGaming]

Wow, so i have payed multiple hundreds for a full version of Game Maker Studio 2, 1.4 & 7 but i don't get all the features. Well that is a slap in the face. When I purchased Game Maker Studio 2 I was expecting all features forever.
It makes me really worried for future updates and qhat else is going to be put behind a subscription paywall. I'm thinking after 14 years of Game Maker it's finally getting time to switch my main engine.

 

[Alice]

I think this is a valid concern for currently introduced feature and any future ones. Once a user's subscription expires, they get locked out of those behind paywall features they already incorporated into their project, no? What will happen to their ongoing project? That locked out feature used can't be edited until they pay again? - kind of like a hostage situation? Sounds to me the project that uses such feature will either break or go haywire if they don't keep the subscription active? Scary prospect!

For the record, this specific concern was addressed in this post.
It was a response to "what will happen if a non-subscription collaborator will try to use a subscription-only feature" scenario, but I believe it applies to "what will happen if someone use subscription feature then the subscription expired" scenario as well.

In other words: the non-subscribed user won't be able to add/edit/remove filters or effects subscribed, and the game will run without the filters applied. So as long as you don't have to work on filters specifically, you should be free to continue developing your game even without subscription.

It's a step back from "you'll be able to develop the game as usual and just subscribe to exports" - a step back I'm not entirely happy with as one of people who suggested that workflow to other people in the thread introducing subscriptions. However, at the very least it seems like the subscription-only features won't interrupt working with the free-for-all features, which is much better than the potential "once you use subscription-only feature, the game will break apart for non-subscribers". So the workflow could become more like:
- stay non-subscribed for developing the part using free-for-all features
- subscribe for developing the part using the subscription-only features
- also, subscribe for exports

I just hope that all subscription-only features (whether temporarily or permanently) will be chosen in the way that they can be safely disabled without breaking the game (something like filters - which may just be ignored - is easier to "remove" compared to, say, SVG sprites).

-------------------

Note: I'm assuming there will be permanently subscription-only features basing it on this quote:

At launch Filters and Effects will be a feature available to Indie & Enterprise subscriptions. After release this feature will be updated with the ability to create your own Filter and Effects. Following this update, a selection of preset Filters and Effects will become available for everyone to use, even free! The ability to create your own and a choice from a wider selection of presets will only be available to subscribers.

Access to GameMaker Studio 2 is free for all, but in order for this to work, some major features will only be available to subscribers. Other features will be available for all, but will be released to subscribers first for early access. Upgrades are still available, so please consider this if you are interested in new features. We will continue to provide access, support, and updates for free to all users.

So from the phrasing of this post there will be three kinds of features, it seems:
- free-for-all from the start (like new Start Page)
- temporarily subscription-only, eventually free-for-all (like basic preset filters and effects)
- permanently subscription-only (like additional preset filters and ability to make custom filters)

 

[Nocturne]

Wow, so i have payed multiple hundreds for a full version of Game Maker Studio 2, 1.4 & 7 but i don't get all the features. Well that is a slap in the face. When I purchased Game Maker Studio 2 I was expecting all features forever.
It makes me really worried for future updates and qhat else is going to be put behind a subscription paywall. I'm thinking after 14 years of Game Maker it's finally getting time to switch my main engine.

Tbh, I think 5+ years of free updates for a product that you spent a few hundred dollars on is a pretty good run for your money, given that you've had potentially thousands of hours of fun (and potentially profit) and also benefited from thousands of man hours of work and updates... Have a little perspective!

So from the phrasing of this post there will be three kinds of features, it seems:
- free-for-all from the start (like new Start Page)
- temporarily subscription-only, eventually free-for-all (like basic preset filters and effects)
- permanently subscription-only (like additional preset filters and ability to make custom filters)

Hmm... I missed that bit in the quote and I would agree with this analysis. While I do think that it's a bit morally iffy of them to do this, I also understand why they would want to. They've supported one-time-purchase users for 5 or more years and got nothing back from it... so it's only normal that they would want to give priority to those users that are now STILL supporting them by subscribing.

 

[Deleted member 16767]

FL Studio is a lifetime paid software. They have plugins that they themselves have done and plugins from other developers still they update their music creating engine. What GMS2 is doing, is going the way of Arcade, a VST plugin that updates daily with new plugins.

 

[GameDevDan]

As always I feel for the customer support team & community-facing staff...

GMS 2.x has been out for years. Anybody who bought a full license on day 1 has already had a really great deal with all the new features added since then, and couldn't reasonably expect YYG to just go on adding more & more new stuff for no extra money...

Buuuuut YYG did repeatedly promise updates for the lifetime of GMS2. Question is why then did the decision-makers at YYG and Opera not just take this opportunity to release 3.x and avoid these arguments altogether? I feel like the sub model + new IDE features released over the past 6-12 months would've been more than enough to justify a whole version jump, and it would save the public-facing teams a bit of a headache. maybe. I'm sure some people probably would still complain. oh well.

 

[Nobody]

GMS 2.x has been out for years. Anybody who bought a full license on day 1 has already had a really great deal with all the new features added since then, and couldn't reasonably expect YYG to just go on adding more & more new stuff for no extra money...

As you said yourself, that’s what YYG promised. So why would it be ‘unreasonable’ to expect them to honour that?

And also as you said, why not just release it as GMS 3? This way YYG could have kept their word and altered the goal posts as they saw fit, without backflipping on the ‘complete free for life of the product’ promise.

 

[FeetUpGaming]

Tbh, I think 5+ years of free updates for a product that you spent a few hundred dollars on is a pretty good run for your money, given that you've had potentially thousands of hours of fun (and potentially profit) and also benefited from thousands of man hours of work and updates... Have a little perspective!


Hmm... I missed that bit in the quote and I would agree with this analysis. While I do think that it's a bit morally iffy of them to do this, I also understand why they would want to. They've supported one-time-purchase users for 5 or more years and got nothing back from it... so it's only normal that they would want to give priority to those users that are now STILL supporting them by subscribing.

Yeah it was a good run, but considering i can use other engines for completly free, or others for just royalty fee. Or another for free with all features it just has a watermark. It's making it seem like the few hundred i spent was rather overpriced. Tbh the people saying that people who purchased it on day one have had they got a great deal. When I purchased game maker studio 2 it said Life Time access of ALL features. Feel cheated tbh. False advertising.

I just looked on the site and they no longer offer lifetime licenses. Wow yeah time to move on.

 

[SnortySnoopy]

For the record, this specific concern was addressed in this post.
It was a response to "what will happen if a non-subscription collaborator will try to use a subscription-only feature" scenario, but I believe it applies to "what will happen if someone use subscription feature then the subscription expired" scenario as well.

In other words: the non-subscribed user won't be able to add/edit/remove filters or effects subscribed, and the game will run without the filters applied. So as long as you don't have to work on filters specifically, you should be free to continue developing your game even without subscription.

It's a step back from "you'll be able to develop the game as usual and just subscribe to exports" - a step back I'm not entirely happy with as one of people who suggested that workflow to other people in the thread introducing subscriptions. However, at the very least it seems like the subscription-only features won't interrupt working with the free-for-all features, which is much better than the potential "once you use subscription-only feature, the game will break apart for non-subscribers". So the workflow could become more like:
- stay non-subscribed for developing the part using free-for-all features
- subscribe for developing the part using the subscription-only features
- also, subscribe for exports

I just hope that all subscription-only features (whether temporarily or permanently) will be chosen in the way that they can be safely disabled without breaking the game (something like filters - which may just be ignored - is easier to "remove" compared to, say, SVG sprites).

-------------------

Note: I'm assuming there will be permanently subscription-only features basing it on this quote:

So from the phrasing of this post there will be three kinds of features, it seems:
- free-for-all from the start (like new Start Page)
- temporarily subscription-only, eventually free-for-all (like basic preset filters and effects)
- permanently subscription-only (like additional preset filters and ability to make custom filters)

In other words , their project could be rendered differently from when it was in active subscription, thus "breaks" their project because it behave differently from while it was in active subscription. As such I think, there should always be a pre-warning when users decide to use a feature that is "only available while in active subscription" (that last line in your post). That way everyone is always aware which/what to avoid using if they decide not to remain actively subscribed. After all, an active subscription is basically needed only for building.

 

[Nobody]

Tbh, I think 5+ years of free updates for a product that you spent a few hundred dollars on is a pretty good run for your money, given that you've had potentially thousands of hours of fun (and potentially profit) and also benefited from thousands of man hours of work and updates... Have a little perspective!

It‘s a two way street for some of us. YYG has also benefited in my thousands of hours of fun (and profit).

Although probably an edge case, YYG has continued to make a passive income from my own work. Which I don’t begrudge at all, I’m all for it and very grateful for the opportunity.

Having a little perspective (as you put it yourself ), I have effectively purchased the ‘GMS console edition’ several times over in earnings generated for YYG. While I’ve always been using the $99 version. YYG has literally made thousands from myself alone.

As I said, my circumstance is likely an edge case.

 

[makas]

is a little sad to see that they are starting to threat us (permanente licence guys) like if we are free users... we are not... we payed in a model they decided for all the existance of that version of the program at the time... this feels bad for me... forcing some of your most entusiast users to change the payment model, at least for me the new additions so far are not that important, because I know how to program a screen shake or implement some of the shaders, but god it feels like are trying to force me to go subscription... now they are also making one of the things that I was using as an argument to defend the subscription model to be useless... now if you want to implement new features on your game that are in the IDE, you dont need to only pay the subcription to publish, you will also need the subcription to develop your game... and also if I decided to stop using the subscription what will happen with the projects that those features were active? are they going to get removed for my build? thats pretty bad for me... because there was the selling point for the free version to have all the perks of the subscription but the exports.... now that is not longer true... and what is worst, is not only the free users but users that also pay money for the permanent licences...

edit: I posted this in the wrong thread so I will post it here... I know now that the features will be disabled... I understand that the features will be disabled if my subscription runs out, as I said I am not worry about this kind of features (the shaders) because I can add them with traditional code... but I am afraid that some other features that are not possible to implement with only code right now will be added behind a paywall... a paywall that I though was behind me for the software I bought in early beta... what is more annoying for me, more than the subscription itself is the feeling of they trying to force me go the subscription route...

 

[jonjons]

"The updates the people who bought gms have been getting for free for years"...?!?!
Well... There wasn't any updates.
The only graphical update gms have, and has been in there for years ever since gm1.4
its this one

Spoiler

Even an emulator has more graphical options than this....

Spoiler

This is a question of character / Behaviour / Even bad Marketing...
Ho what an Evil guy, the things he says... well who is going to talk about this ?

This are the type of updates and graphical improvements the team makes for gms...
Some evil guys decides to post this, maybe in a funny way, because there is no other way to say it or explain it...whatever it doesnt matter...

GameMaker/Game Dev Memes

When someone post there code When someone post there code, without a code block Users looking for help on problems that arent using GMS2 (thank you new form for breaking my .png files :( )

forum.yoyogames.com

Spoiler

And in the next day, or 2 or 3 days later this shows up in the main loading page ?

Spoiler

does this type of updates or behaviour justifies anything ? Is this your game or gms graphical improvements ?

And were is that particle editor some users have been needing for so many years ?
It's been sitting on drawer forever, when it finally cames out it will be like "Ho hey guys, we are working on some techical improvements, and solving some issues...etc..."
No, the person just goes to the next room to fetch the particle editor that has been already made for years and never released, and tries to improve it very fast according to some particle editors others users have made using gms ages ago.
Its not going to work, it will never be has good has the ones that were already made by other users ages ago, that are already tested and improved... yoyo team should ve released it when it was finished. Instead someone decided to hold on to it, and use it has an Ace of Spades like it was playing poker or something, to release it in a apropriate time that never came.

The information is very explicit, and its writen right here.

Filters the ability to create your own and a choice from a wider selection of presets will only be available to subscribers.

Only people using a subscription will be able to (make or code) their own filters. And that requires a permanent subscription.

What updates has gm released for paid users ? For me none.
It is like some people already said, for those who are willing to read.

"The problem with using gm related to others engines, is that on the long run, you will end up building you own editors, and this takes a lot of time and effort... Its just a thing that not many people will be willing to do"

Its a problem of behaviour, yoyo team doesnt know how to do things, improvements or updates. And to be honest it just doesnt want to do it, or its not interested in it.
Considering the costumers they are dealing with. Indie developers, fight each other for who can make the better game, and maybe the money will came if the product is good... Not just this thing of wanting money just because it wants money, i dont think it works that way.

You want money ? do what ever everyone else is doing. Focus on the application, on making it the best application on the market. Do it just because you want it, just because you are good doing it, just because its the only thing you can do.
Not because someone wants you to do something, or someone is asking you to do something.

The only thing that has been done for all these years, is this marketing circus of oil and vinagre. Well guess what ? Its not working.

 

[Nocturne]

What updates has gm released for paid users ? For me none.

One big one that immediately comes to mind is the Sequences, Structs and Functions update. That was worthy of being a GMS3 release right there, but was a point release for GMS2... And a far more major suite of features than these shader effects, which could easily be done before (and still can be done) using any of the free shaders available and the layer script begin/end functions. This is an incredibly minor update in functionality compared to sequences, structs and functions, which overhauled entirely the previous GM paradigms. You can also check the release notes for the last 5 years and I'll think you'll see that they have released a massive amount of updates for GMS 2.x, each one offering more features for NO money, since you'd already paid for the product.

Like I've said before, let's try and keep some perspective here...

 

[drandula]

"The updates the people who bought gms have been getting for free for years"...?!?!
Well... There wasn't any updates.

Well that's harshly said and untrue. There has been smaller and bigger updates and maintaining the program. Especially 2.3 update I have enjoyed the most.

 

[Stra]

1) "Unity went public in September 2020, and reported a record year boosted by the COVID-19 pandemic, despite losses. The company's IPO filing, released last summer, revealed that it's not actually profitable, with execs then reporting that profitability was expected by 2023. " Not actually profitable and we're talking about Unity, the engine with by far the most customers.

2) Companies that have a pay-only-once-get-all-and-any-updates-for-a-lifetime are not economically sustainable, devs that do that can only keep doing it as a hobby. Yoyo's pay once-per-big-version was similar and not a good idea from the company's economic perspective.

3) The amount of people here that want something for nothing boggles my mind. (Here I am talking about those who want everything in the free version.) Yoyo should keep working hard, giving out stuff for free all the while fully paying its employees, according to some.

3.5) Or pay $100 every 10 years and demand that the developers work hard for chump change and bring out all the goodies.

4) People that claim 20+ years of being in the gaming business and can not afford a subscription of this type should reconsider their careers. For hobbyists and children there is the free version and a ton of other (free) engines.

5) How many times does it have to be written again that the permanent license will get the subscriber license's candies, just a bit later down the line?

6) The amount of useless junk and pointless lattes that I bought in my lifetime far exceeds by many times any subscription that I now have to get for a software that I love.

 

[jonjons]

One big one that immediately comes to mind is the Sequences, Structs and Functions update. That was worthy of being a GMS3 release right there, but was a point release for GMS2... And a far more major suite of features than these shader effects, which could easily be done before (and still can be done) using any of the free shaders available and the layer script begin/end functions. This is an incredibly minor update in functionality compared to sequences, structs and functions, which overhauled entirely the previous GM paradigms. You can also check the release notes for the last 5 years and I'll think you'll see that they have released a massive amount of updates for GMS 2.x, each one offering more features for NO money, since you'd already paid for the product.

Like I've said before, let's try and keep some perspective here...

Well that's harshly said and untrue. There has been smaller and bigger updates and maintaining the program. Especially 2.3 update I have enjoyed the most.

does this mean you only read the frist line --> " Well... There wasn't any updates" ... Great !!!
But its about the users coding the editors for that.
Sequences, yeah, absolutely. Why go for the bad when you can go for the good ?
Sequences are way better then sekeleton animations, they can do the same and much much more.

[edit]
I didnt knew the ( layer script begin/end function ) existed....
but the updates were all related to coding... The real update that was made, was the one made to the scripts.
Someone finally realized, that stuff was pilling up to the point that no one was able to understand the code anymore.
Ending up with the only thing to do, was " Not using scripts beecause you already have 10 scripts, and if you continue to do so, you will end up with 500 files of scripts".

 

[RefresherTowel]

How many times does it have to be written again that the permanent license will get the subscriber license's candies, just a bit later down the line?

This is definitely not a settled issue. In the blog post itself (which I assume you read) it says that some functionality will be released to perpetual later on, but it also says that some functionality will stay behind the subscriber wall. On top of that, it says that other major features will also be behind the sub-wall. If everything was going to be released for perpetuals later on, I see absolutely no reason for them to make those distinctions. A simple "All of these features will be available for non-free licenses in time," would easily have sufficed.

Again, if, when they release 3.0, these 2.x features become available to perpetual users, then I have no problem. But both sides are assuming what is going to happen without evidence (and considering there was no mention of anything for perpetuals being locked behind the sub-wall when subs were introduced, I am not necessarily on the optimistic side of those assumptions).

 

[gnysek]

In fact releasing 3.x now and even giving same subscription exchange bonus but with no permanent license would be much worse that what they doing now (and looking back for when gm got major udpstes it's already moment to release new major version), but YYG instead gave a huge bonus to loyal customers and sticked with 2.x naming convention - and instead of giving option "subscribe or get lost" we got "subscribe or stick with what you already got plus bug fixes plus some of new features, and you may try subscription for free if you want", but from what I read above, for many that change is worse than the 3.x option...

 

[Nocturne]

In fact releasing 3.x now and even giving same subscription exchange bonus but with no permanent license would be much worse that what they doing now (and looking back for when gm got major udpstes it's already moment to release new major version), but YYG instead gave a huge bonus to loyal customers and sticked with 2.x naming convention - and instead of giving option "subscribe or get lost" we got "subscribe or stick with what you already got plus bug fixes plus some of new features, and you may try subscription for free if you want", but from what I read above, for many that change is worse than the 3.x option...

This is something else that noone here seems to be taking into consideration... Even on a single windows/mac licence you are getting 12months+ free subscription, and if you have other licences then that number doubles or triples and goes well beyond what would be expected of a single point release lifetime. It seems rather petty to me to be complaining when this offer is on the table... especially since 5 years lifetime for a single point release is actually pretty long and not the norm ... meaning that it's very possible that in next 12 months GMS3 will be announced and you're going to have to update anyway.

 

[Nobody]

each one offering more features for NO money, since you'd already paid for the product.

Like I've said before, let's try and keep some perspective here...

Come on dude, no money? Are you saying they didn’t carefully factor updates in buy price and roadmap?

 

[cyberkirin]

As always I feel for the customer support team & community-facing staff...

GMS 2.x has been out for years. Anybody who bought a full license on day 1 has already had a really great deal with all the new features added since then, and couldn't reasonably expect YYG to just go on adding more & more new stuff for no extra money...

Buuuuut YYG did repeatedly promise updates for the lifetime of GMS2. Question is why then did the decision-makers at YYG and Opera not just take this opportunity to release 3.x and avoid these arguments altogether? I feel like the sub model + new IDE features released over the past 6-12 months would've been more than enough to justify a whole version jump, and it would save the public-facing teams a bit of a headache. maybe. I'm sure some people probably would still complain. oh well.

Maybe realeasing the GMS 3.0 and announcing the sub model in the same time is dangerous, it would make a certain number of GMS user leave GMS decisively or stay in gms2.0, and no way to ensure that enouth new GMS uers would join in for the new sub model and gms3.0.
If gms3.0 is to be published, it should be published after there is a certain subscriber base for the sub model. The sub model is what they really want.

Although some arguments are there now, but obviously, the sub model is pushing in a " more peaceful " way with the existing user group who still using gms2, by some uncelaer description and promise.

Or, they just not ready for the 3.0 development, so they have to do ti with gms2.0.

 

[Mehdi]

What is exploding my mind right now is that, no staff member comes here and answers this much ambiguity and worry that have arisen since yesterday.

Some people are rightfully complaining (because they have paid for a permanent license but are treated much like a free user).
Others are justifying YoYo in that they need money for keeping up and with so many huge updates, one can not expect a forever-free support.

But no official YoYo staff member explains even a single word that what the explicit future would look like? IT DRIVES ME LIKE CRAZY!!

 

[hxyy]

Ime bug is more serious!!!!
Unable to see candidate!!
operating system is Win11

The words will be repeated twice

 

[gnysek]

no official YoYo staff member explains even a single word that what the explicit future would look like

It's because it's not YoYo staff, who makes decisions. It's Opera. And it's a big company, and corporation like that rarely talks directly with customers, they are rather only publishing "press releases", written rather for investors. That's a typical "we have nothing to share at the moment". Don't blame YYG for that - I know that those who are using GM for more that decade were used to times, where Sandy+Russel+Mike were like colleagues and they were sharing everything here on forums or on twitter, and we were able to ask them directly about new features, discuss bugs etc. as equals (I remember that sometimes suggesting something on twitter was resulting in adding that on next day!) - but those times are gone when Playtech came into game. Opera understands our needs much better, but it still have business way of managing things.

 

[Posh Indie]

This is NOT what has been stated so far. They have said, fairly clearly I think, that the new features will come to the permanent licence holders after a period of time has passed. While this may seem morally a bit dubious to some, it is still keeping up their side of the ToS/EULA and previously stated agreements. I can also understand their point of view on this perfectly... Subscription is the future for the product, that much is obvious, and so they want to encourage people to move to that as soon as possible, and also give a small "thank you" to those that have already, in the form of first access to new features. I think that this is perfectly understandable and really don't have an issue with it, as long as the permanent licence holders get access to these updates eventually (although I would like to think that "eventually" means sooner rather than later!).

If this were the case, I would personally shut my face hole immediately (YoYo Games, please make it happen. I'm actually looking for a reason to shut up here).

The issue is there are actually mixed messages here, and I think most are seeing the, "You will get them all eventually" (I can get on board with this) and not the, "You get the feature... but extended capabilities are subscription only". The example given by a Staff Member was, "You will get filters eventually, but the wider range of prebuilt filters and the ability to create your own is subscription only". The prebuilts are, honestly, okay at best. The feature is arguably okay at best right now (Needs some way to limit what gets affected), but the issue is... the only thing that would make it worth using (writing your own) has been mentioned as a, "Permanent license holders... you will never have that."

I don't care about the feature, the subscription fee, the fact that Opera is turning it into Opera Game Studio by digging its talons deeper into the codebase... I only care about the principle, haha.

 

[gnysek]

You will get filters eventually

Yep, I must admit, that this this message is too mysterious. It can be read as "maybe next week, maybe in 5 years". I have suspicion, that this will became available, when those additional "subscription only" filter features will be available (to give some demo for perpetual users), but my suspicions are worth $0.00.

 

[Posh Indie]

Yep, I must admit, that this this message is too mysterious. It can be read as "maybe next week, maybe in 5 years". I have suspicion, that this will became available, when those additional "subscription only" filter features will be available (to give some demo for perpetual users), but my suspicions are worth $0.00.

Worth the $0.02 to qualify as "your 2 cents" to me! Also, I basically have the same suspicion.

 

[rwkay]

Thanks to everyone contributing to this thread. Some of you are clearly very unhappy and we take that seriously. We're reading every post.

We are not putting everything behind a subscription quite the opposite in fact - we are carrying on everyones permanent license and providing support for everything that is currently present and reserving some future (mostly unannounced features) for subscription users. Nothing much is changing here, you will continue to get support (for permanent users) and many of these features will make their way to free and permanent users. There is more to come for Filters and Effects so the feature is not complete yet but we are excited about it and wanted subscription users to be able to use it now before it has been fully finished (it is still very useful now), we will be doing more like that as we roll out new features that are useful but not complete.

Russell

 

[Mehdi]

Thanks to everyone contributing to this thread. Some of you are clearly very unhappy and we take that seriously. We're reading every post.

We are not putting everything behind a subscription quite the opposite in fact - we are carrying on everyones permanent license and providing support for everything that is currently present and reserving some future (mostly unannounced features) for subscription users. Nothing much is changing here, you will continue to get support (for permanent users) and many of these features will make their way to free and permanent users. There is more to come for Filters and Effects so the feature is not complete yet but we are excited about it and wanted subscription users to be able to use it now before it has been fully finished (it is still very useful now), we will be doing more like that as we roll out new features that are useful but not complete.

Russell

Thanks Russel for your reply and the good work of you and your team in developing GM. Really appreciate that.

However I think your recent move to make GM access completely free and just pay-for-export a rather logical and reasonable model.
But your plan to give some features exclusively to those who have subbed and make it inaccessible for the most loyal users of you(Holders of perpetual licenses) really annoying.(even though the features are going to be handed down to them in some future.)

 

[RefresherTowel]

(even though the features are going to be handed down to them in some future.)

I don't believe that is true, my reading is that some features (or portions thereof) for 2.x will be forever behind the sub wall.

 

[Mehdi]

forever behind the sub wall.

Sad

 

[Posh Indie]

Thanks to everyone contributing to this thread. Some of you are clearly very unhappy and we take that seriously. We're reading every post.

We are not putting everything behind a subscription quite the opposite in fact - we are carrying on everyones permanent license and providing support for everything that is currently present and reserving some future (mostly unannounced features) for subscription users. Nothing much is changing here, you will continue to get support (for permanent users) and many of these features will make their way to free and permanent users. There is more to come for Filters and Effects so the feature is not complete yet but we are excited about it and wanted subscription users to be able to use it now before it has been fully finished (it is still very useful now), we will be doing more like that as we roll out new features that are useful but not complete.

Russell

I think the big thing here is that people are upset about key pieces being mentioned as subscription only when initially the permanent licenses were advertised as "Will recieve all 2.X features for the lifetime of 2.X" instead of, "Will receive all 2.X features for the lifetime of 2.X, except in the rare event that Opera buys YoYo Games and decides to switch to subscription". (Clarifying that my issue is NOT with YoYo Games... it is with Opera)

New features and updates are awesome, and I know the benefits of subscriptions. I am completely okay with everything except Opera and their "Bro-minded" decision making. Nothing is thought out, nothing is planned at all. It's more like the CEO's college aged son finished a football game, chugged 6 beers, slammed the cans against his head, and belched out an executive decision...

 

[Sad]

Sad

Yes, that's me.

Now when I checked their roadmap GameMaker Roadmap (yoyogames.com) I'm not that excited anymore. Am I going to get this? or no, that will be the first of my concern. My suggestion for the staff who handle the webpages, maybe add additional column next to the roadmap, and mark it with icon for features that are planned to be Subscription locked that will never get added to previous licenses owners.

 

[Dr. Wolf]

I wrote up a little analogy to help people who are struggling to understand the perspective of those who are or aren't pissed off about this...

A fisherman typically catches 4-6 fish when he goes out. You pay him to give you all the fish he catches that day. He comes back with 10 fish, gives you 7, then sells the remaining 3 to someone else and says, "well, fishing is expensive, and you shouldn't have been expecting more than 6 fish anyway. I could have just caught 6, 5, even 4 fish and come back to shore, and you'd have been happy!"

Some people will agree with the fisherman's reasoning, and that's fair; it's not like he doesn't have a point. But other people are going to be pissed and that's fair, too, because, whatever the fisherman's excuse, he broke the deal. You didn't pay for n fish or some fish or even lots of fish, you paid for all the fish.

Right now, a lot of people with permanent licenses feel like they aren't being given the deal they thought they were paying for. They thought the deal was that they were paying for all the updates, however many or few that might wind up being. They thought they were paying for a fully unlocked GMS2, paying to be done with restrictions and upsells and seeing other people get something you don't, and adding a locked feature means that's no longer what they have. Some people came to GMS because they compared $100/once to be a "first-class citizen" of the GM ecosystem versus $1800/year to be a "first-class citizen" of Unity, with all the comfort and security that comes from knowing you're at the top priority level. And if people don't get what they thought they were paying for-- the specific thing, not something "good enough" or "really good"-- then yeah, they're going to be angry.

EDIT: It may be that people will get their fish...eventually. But there's a lot of uncertainty and fear floating around about this right now.

 

[Mehdi]

I wrote up a little analogy to help people who are struggling to understand the perspective of those who are or aren't pissed off about this...

A fisherman typically catches 4-6 fish when he goes out. You pay him to give you all the fish he catches that day. He comes back with 10 fish, gives you 7, then sells the remaining 3 to someone else and says, "well, fishing is expensive, and you shouldn't have been expecting more than 6 fish anyway. I could have just caught 6, 5, even 4 fish and come back to shore, and you'd have been happy!"

Some people will agree with the fisherman's reasoning, and that's fair; it's not like he doesn't have a point. But other people are going to be pissed and that's fair, too, because, whatever the fisherman's excuse, he broke the deal. You didn't pay for n fish or some fish or even lots of fish, you paid for all the fish.

Right now, a lot of people with permanent licenses feel like they aren't being given the deal they thought they were paying for. They thought the deal was that they were paying for all the updates, however many or few that might wind up being. They thought they were paying for a fully unlocked GMS2, paying to be done with restrictions and upsells and seeing other people get something you don't, and adding a locked feature means that's no longer what they have. Some people came to GMS because they compared $100/once to be a "first-class citizen" of the GM ecosystem versus $1800/year to be a "first-class citizen" of Unity, with all the comfort and security that comes from knowing you're at the top priority level. And if people don't get what they thought they were paying for-- the specific thing, not something "good enough" or "really good"-- then yeah, they're going to be angry.

AGREE!

 

[ImakeAdultGames]

Thanks to everyone contributing to this thread. Some of you are clearly very unhappy and we take that seriously. We're reading every post.

We are not putting everything behind a subscription quite the opposite in fact - we are carrying on everyones permanent license and providing support for everything that is currently present and reserving some future (mostly unannounced features) for subscription users. Nothing much is changing here, you will continue to get support (for permanent users) and many of these features will make their way to free and permanent users. There is more to come for Filters and Effects so the feature is not complete yet but we are excited about it and wanted subscription users to be able to use it now before it has been fully finished (it is still very useful now), we will be doing more like that as we roll out new features that are useful but not complete.

Russell

Is this supposed to reassure someone? Sounds more like doubling down on this very unfortunate move. At least be straight about what you are going to do and not try to corporate speak your way around it.

 

[Posh Indie]

Is this supposed to reassure someone? Sounds more like doubling down on this very unfortunate move. At least be straight about what you are going to do and not try to corporate speak your way around it.

Not his choice if he likes to eat. Take it easy on @rwkay (And the other Developers). The ones you should be mad at are sipping martinis in their tower while YoYo Games is walking the streets with us...

 

[gnysek]

and wanted subscription users to be able to use it now before it has been fully finished

So it's a beta thing on stable release?

Is hard to evaluate this situation, as for sure we can say, that the more someone invested into GMS2 in past, the longer one can (optionally) have additional "paywall" features for free, and there's some sense in it (however those who bought for example Mobile exporter for 400$ week before it was changed to 200$, may have mixed feelings about that). Of course we can say - hey, if you have perpetual license, just claim your free months (that's what I've do for example), but I see that some people just doesn't like it, cause it requires to use Stripe for example. Also, as first 12 months are for $0, they don't see sense in switching - for that period both groups who paid anything should get same, as they spent same.

What can be improved here, is to at least introduce subscription for perpetual users, that doesn't require to provide any new details and doesn't use any payment service at all, or to not put any new features behind paywall before 31st December 2022 (as this equals to 1-year Indie Subscription from now on, which is minimal amount that every perpetual owner can claim).
These changes are touching mostly those who have only 1 license, as their clock is ticking faster - for those like me, which have more than 4 years of no payments, it's so far away, that I'm judging things differently and generally I have nothing against those changes - but I see others concerns, and would be good if there's any solution, that will not cut them from new features from day to day.

 

[Posh Indie]

These changes are touching mostly those who have only 1 license, as their clock is ticking faster - for those like me, which have more than 4 years of no payments, it's so far away, that I'm judging things differently and generally I have nothing against those changes - but I see others concerns, and would be good if there's any solution, that will not cut them from new features from day to day.

For full disclosure, I also have MANY years of "Free" (I bought all permanent licenses), and I also took the subscription swap to play with the new features just because I can. I just don't like how it is being handled, and knowing that after 5'ish years (When I would inevitably be on the next version of GMS anyway and paying the subscription willingly) the software I bought as a complete package will become incomplete by design (And going against the initial promises). It's literally just the principle and knowing that Opera is willing to openly be trashy for me, haha.

 

[Mushroomstick]

Thanks to everyone contributing to this thread. Some of you are clearly very unhappy and we take that seriously. We're reading every post.

We are not putting everything behind a subscription quite the opposite in fact - we are carrying on everyones permanent license and providing support for everything that is currently present and reserving some future (mostly unannounced features) for subscription users. Nothing much is changing here, you will continue to get support (for permanent users) and many of these features will make their way to free and permanent users. There is more to come for Filters and Effects so the feature is not complete yet but we are excited about it and wanted subscription users to be able to use it now before it has been fully finished (it is still very useful now), we will be doing more like that as we roll out new features that are useful but not complete.

Russell

I've always been under the impression that permanent license holders were supposed to get all updates "for the life of GMS2.x". When you say things like "reserving some future (mostly unannounced features) for subscription users" or "many of these features will make their way to free and permanent users", it sure doesn't sound like that's what we're getting.

 

[rIKmAN]

and reserving some future (mostly unannounced features) for subscription users.

Are these features being reserved for subscription users going to be introduced with a bump to v3.x or in the lifetime of 2.x?

I think that is the issue most people have, because they expect anything added in a 2.x release to be included in their permanent licence and without any time delay, so clarifying that would stop all the speculation that's being thrown around.

However if you bump to v3.x so there is no case for permanent licence holders with regards to "not being given what they're owed" as permanent licences only cover 2.x, then I can guarantee you that there will still be complaints so I'm not sure you can actually win whatever you do - but clarifying that would at least nullify that particular argument and remove the vagueness.

 

[gnysek]

and knowing that after 5'ish years (When I would inevitably be on the next version of GMS anyway and paying the subscription willingly)

that's how I was explaining it to myself - after 5 years since 2.0 was introduced next version of GMS should be released sooner than later, generally I thought it will be no later spring 2022, so I was already reconciled with thought, that I will need to spent about $500-600 for all licenses again - maybe that's why I'm liking idea of subscription so much, and that bonus free months even more (even without them, instead spending lot of $$$ on day one, it would take me 4-5 years to spent same amount, just on time for GameMaker Studio 4.x ).

 

[Amon]

For full disclosure, I also have MANY years of "Free" (I bought all permanent licenses), and I also took the subscription swap to play with the new features just because I can. I just don't like how it is being handled, and knowing that after 5'ish years (When I would inevitably be on the next version of GMS anyway and paying the subscription willingly) the software I bought as a complete package will become incomplete by design (And going against the initial promises). It's literally just the principle and knowing that Opera is willing to openly be trashy for me, haha.

Would I be correct in thinking that in some part of your mind, you have not been fooled by what you clearly know is a deliberate move to try and get people to switch to subs?

Imho, I now see this too. Why? It's the only logical conclusion one can arrive at when looking at the situation and the biggest clue is the replies they give as to why they are doing it.

Someone, higher up, introduced a customer conversion plan that they could use to get people with permanent licenses to subscribe. And this was it. And it stinks.

 

[Posh Indie]

that's how I was explaining it to myself - after 5 years since 2.0 was introduced next version of GMS should be released sooner than later, generally I thought it will be no later spring 2022, so I was already reconciled with thought, that I will need to spent about $500-600 for all licenses again - maybe that's why I'm liking idea of subscription so much, and that bonus free months even more (even without them, instead spending lot of $$$ on day one, it would take me 4-5 years to spent same amount, just on time for GameMaker Studio 4.x ).

Oh yeah, definitely. The subscription is nothing but positive unless someone doesn't have a card/account (Future state when there are more options) to use (Most likely kids whose parents say, "No", and I sympathize there). If only it was about the money to me... I would not even have existed in the conversation, haha.