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OFFICIAL GameMaker changes and Publishing

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by rmanthorp, Jun 4, 2019.

  1. rmanthorp

    rmanthorp YoYo Games Staff Admin YYG Staff

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    Hey guys, a quick update on the goings on at YoYo RE: GameMaker and Publishing. Oh and keep your eyes out as GMS2 beta 2.2.3 is coming very soon! :)

    https://www.pocketgamer.biz/news/70873/gamemaker-cuts-cost-of-mobile-licence-by-half/

     
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  2. matharoo

    matharoo Udemy Instructor

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    Will that include any GML updates?
     
  3. GameDevDan

    GameDevDan Get Gyro Boss DX Moderator GMC Elder

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    That YoYo Games publishing record in full:

    [​IMG]
     
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  4. DividingByZero

    DividingByZero Member

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    I got an email saying I was eligible for a 20% discount today since my trial for GMS2 was ending. But, I don't see the discount in my cart - how do I apply that? (I know this is sort of different, but I am guessing the terms I had to agree to are related to changes).
     
  5. rmanthorp

    rmanthorp YoYo Games Staff Admin YYG Staff

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    Hey, it should be showing on your accounts product page? If not please contact our helpdesk and they will be able to sort it out https://accounts.yoyogames.com/contact-us#select
     
  6. DividingByZero

    DividingByZero Member

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    Yeah, I don't see it there. I will contact them, thanks!
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Next steps: (1) remove time limit, substitute required splash screen, (2) massive humble bundle sale, (3) cut support and force transition to the revolutionary new GMS3, featuring an IDE mini-map.
     
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  8. Zhanghua

    Zhanghua Member

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    Just make is stable please
     
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  9. rmanthorp

    rmanthorp YoYo Games Staff Admin YYG Staff

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  10. rIKmAN

    rIKmAN Member

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    Just my personal opinion with no data to back things up, but I can't help but think that the change to a 30 day trial is a bad move.

    It's stopping potential future customers from learning at their own pace and forcing people to rush / cram any learning and usage of GMS2 that they might want to do around school / work / real life in general into 30days before they have to decide to buy or leave to use another engine.

    With the plethora of free engines around I see this pushing more people away than it attracts, learning to code as a beginner is difficult enough at the best of times without having a time limit attached to what will be a hobby for 99.9% of new GMS2 users.

    Also full versions of software that are "time limited" are pretty much always cracked to remove the time limit, and have been since I was at school in the 90's (and earlier). I'm sure YYG have done metrics (and again this is just my personal opinion) but I would say goodbye to a lot of possible conversions to Creator and Desktop licence purchases if the new 30 day trial also allows compiling.

    Can't say I'm surprised by the publishing arm closing either, quite a few people (inc myself) voiced concerns over this when it was announced, but I am glad that it means focus is being put where it is most important - GMS2 itself - and that seems to bode well for the future.

    I am looking forward to 2.2.3 however, and hoping that the dreaded Windows deadlock issue has actually finally been crushed!
    @rmanthorp Are local asset packages also making in to 2.2.3 as per the roadmap, I need them in my life!
     
  11. rmanthorp

    rmanthorp YoYo Games Staff Admin YYG Staff

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    That's the hope on the first one. So far so good here.
    and YEP!
     
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  12. rIKmAN

    rIKmAN Member

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    Nocturne said the same for the deadlock issue, that's great news.
    ...and YEP!? GIMME GIMME GIMME! hahah.
     
  13. BoboNator

    BoboNator Member

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    In my case, this is exactly right. I picked up GameMaker a few weeks ago to learn the program, and have slowly been making my way through the Space Rocks tutorial in my free time. I looked forward to taking my time with the other tutorials and eventually starting my own small hobby project to learn the various aspects of game design+coding, but I definitely won't be finished within 30 days. I must say I'm disappointed because it seems like an awesome program and I was having fun learning it, but I can't justify spending $100 for a license I likely won't ever use. I wouldn't mind as much if there were a cheaper (permanent) option for hobbyists with no commercial plans, but as it stands I'll probably drop the tutorials entirely and just start over with a different program.
     
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  14. tracy08172002

    tracy08172002 Member

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    Had the same issue. I fixed it on my end by logging out of the YoYo account, then going back to the email and clicking View Discounts to which it then populated the correct prices. Hope this helps.
     
  15. Brycie

    Brycie Member

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    So I have been using Game Maker since the humble bundle deal. I have slowly learned GML and game maker features at my own pace in this time. When I seen Game Maker 2 was a thing I read up to find out if I should upgrade. Since I already had the licenses from humble bundle for HTML5 ect. It did not appeal to me to have to pay again to basically still be learning. However when I seen that Game Maker 2 was actually free to use/learn unless you wanted to actually build an exe. I instantly downloaded it to play around with.

    Today's changes are a step backwards. The email uses the word UPGRADE to explain a clear DOWNGRADE. If I read correctly my license now only has 30 days instead of forever. Why am I being rushed into buying a license? Why would I even want a license right now if I am still learning the engine and GML? What does the license give me? I can download Unreal Engine 4 for free, I can spend the next 5 years learning everything id ever need to know before ever handing over a penny. Then there is Open Source FREE engines like Godot. What does GMS2 offer above all of these? For me the one thing GM has over Godot for example is its been around longer, This means a larger community, This community pass on there knowledge to new users and makes sure the stay around. This change will make the community smaller. Without this community you lose your USP, There are many other company's offering similar products now, Many of them running inside a web browser etc.
     
  16. DividingByZero

    DividingByZero Member

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    Thanks for the advice, but I tried this and it isn't working. I also heard back once from support, but all they told me was to login to see the prices. Should I see the discount on the product list page?
     
  17. rIKmAN

    rIKmAN Member

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    If you add it to your basket and go to checkout (without actually purchasing) does it show the 20% discount?

    There are some issues with the mobile licence still showing $399 until checkout, so this might be a similar problem.
     
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  18. DividingByZero

    DividingByZero Member

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    I tried this too, no luck so far. I have another ticket into support, see if they can figure it out.
     
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  19. Kezarus

    Kezarus Member

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    Yeap, no discount here also:

    upload_2019-6-4_17-13-38.png
     
  20. NapoleonicMonkey

    NapoleonicMonkey Member

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    Retroactive changes to the trial license are extremely irritating.

    On Saturday I reactivated a very old account that I had barely used. Today I tried to log in to do a tutorial and was locked out with a swathe of error messages. I've had 3 days to evaluate this trial - it is nowhere near enough to purchase, and frustrating I was blocked out today without being told when downloading a few days ago...
     
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  21. Lonewolff

    Lonewolff Member

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    Was anything ever published?

    I remember when the publishing division was first announced and everyone was eager, throwing questions to YYG left, right, and centre. But it was all hush hush, and I don't recall a single question being answered.

    So this new announcement gave me quite a chuckle.
     
  22. David Batty

    David Batty Member

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    Does the 30 day limit for free trial apply to the education version that many schools are using? How does it work with Seats set up previously?
     
  23. rIKmAN

    rIKmAN Member

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    If it helps, Nocturne has said on Twitter that the educational licences haven't changed at all and are the same as they always were - no 30 day trial limitation.

    However children aren't classed as "educational institutes" and so cannot learn at home with a free version anymore, although he is bringing this up to the relevent people and recommends contacting YYG officially to voice your concerns.

    Source in the replies to these Tweets:
    Tweet 1: https://twitter.com/NocturneGames/status/1136014272033673217
    Tweet 2: https://twitter.com/ReginaGameDev/status/1135973343889416192

    Thought I'd post them just in case you don't Twitter or missed them.
     
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  24. TsukaYuriko

    TsukaYuriko Q&A Spawn Camper Forum Staff Moderator

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    I wholeheartedly agree with the price cut on the mobile export (just fix the display issue where it lists the old price on the website, it's confusing :p) and the closing of the publishing branch (hello GM Player 2.0) - the former will make the product more accessible and probably generate more revenue that way and the latter will allow resources to be reinvested into areas that need them and actually benefit from them.


    What I don't and can not agree with due to wanting nothing but the best for both the company and the users is making the already-existing time-unlimited trial version time-limited, and this needs to be talked about before it escalates - because it will, unless we're missing some critical information that's not mentioned anywhere yet.

    Don't get me wrong - trial limitations are needed and should be in place under all circumstances, we've seen that offering the base product free doesn't work with Studio 1.x Standard. What I don't recall is a single moment in the history of GameMaker where it was possible for a user to be entirely locked out of using even the most basic version of the software after having had access to it, which seems like it would be more likely to enrage users than it would be to urge them to purchase a license. I feel like this would be a collective setback for the users, the software and the company - everyone involved - and therefore can not condone it.


    If tighter limitations are deemed to be necessary, I'd execute them differently. Having a time-limited fully functional trial sounds like a good promotional move to me, but only if it's on top of an existing trial license. The types of users this would otherwise affect can be summarized as three groups: Hobbyists or younger users who are just toying around with the software and not even considering to purchase a license, slightly more invested users who are slowly but surely taking a liking to the software but don't see a need to upgrade to a paid license yet, and students.

    The former are more likely stop using the software entirely, decreasing the user base with no additional benefit.
    The latter are definitely going to be frustrated because these new limitations are getting in their way of completing their course, and forcing them to buy what is essentially course material out of their own pocket is not something this group likes to see to begin with. This would needlessly jeopardize GameMaker in educational institutions. YoYo Games and school staff alike will be dealing with enraged students, which will surely disrupt their relationships with each other.

    The remaining group may be pushed towards purchasing a license by this change... or they might just drop it entirely too. Is that worth all of the other negative side effects? Adding a limitation that will damage relations just to maybe get a few more sales out of a specific subgroup of the affected people seems counter-productive to me.

    One thing that's for sure is that educational users need to be left out of this. If these changes are kept, at the very least, there must be a way for educational users to continue using the software at home, as educational institutions are assigning homework to them which they can not complete without having at least basic access to the software. Students are already indirect customers - educational institutions pay annually for their seat licenses - there is absolutely no need to and no benefit to be gained from attempting to further milk this already mostly indebted target demographic.


    Would a compromise solution be viable here? One example of this would be to tighten the limitations of the trial license further (even though they are already pretty tight to begin with), offer an option to temporarily upgrade to the Trial model proposed in this topic, then revert after some time. This way, new users will start out with the severely limited model but can take their time exploring the software at their own pace. Once they feel like they've hit the cap of what the basic Trial license lets them do, they can activate their temporary, less limited trial period. Instead of limiting the user's freedom and creativity, this will empower them and encourage them to break the boundaries of what they thought was possible until then, motivating them instead of demotivating them.

    The thought process behind this is that once they hit the end of the premium trial period, they will hopefully experience that same motivation to extend their capabilities once more (perhaps with an added discount for the Creator or Desktop license types - primarily Creator could come with a quite attractive discount that places it within the range of potential younger customers' budget), which will ease proceeding into a purchase.


    Holding the end user's entire software and project hostage surely can not be a good way to promote a healthy customer relationship and is more than likely to turn away customers instead of reeling them in, especially considering that the educational trial version remains unchanged (no time limit but resource limitations), literally not allowing students to continue working on their projects or assignments at home for more than a month unless they pay up, which is entirely unreasonable. At the very least, something needs to be done about this, or we'll be crushed by a huge influx of enraged students in a month's time from now (assuming that trial license timers start ticking down today, which seems to not even be the case, as people in this topic are reporting that their timers expired now).
     
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  25. EvanSki

    EvanSki King of Raccoons

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    I'll make this short sweet and simple

    Yes. this is great do this.

    Limited free trial. "Applying a time limit to the trial means we can actually remove the resource limitations on the free trial that currently exist, so new users can explore it further and do more with it, without meeting resource restrictions,” said Poole.

    "so new users can explore it further and do more with it" Limited free trial.

    "do more with it" LIMITED!

    boi2.jpg

    Edit for my picture because I done want to remake it: ...and then LOCK THE PROJECT BEHIND A PAY WALL
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2019
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  26. DarkChojin

    DarkChojin Member

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    I signed up with the forum solely to tell you how much your limited free trial “upgrade” p***** me off. Only started using GMS2 over the last three weeks and made great progress — but at my own pace. I'm now considering switching to Godot once my trial expires.
     
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  27. TsukaYuriko

    TsukaYuriko Q&A Spawn Camper Forum Staff Moderator

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    Case in point.
     
  28. Lonewolff

    Lonewolff Member

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    GameBeast™ coming soon... :p
     
  29. EvanSki

    EvanSki King of Raccoons

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    I think a better way to do the free trial is let the user do anything with game maker with no time limit except, export there game, you can only export it once youve bought a license.
     
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  30. Misty

    Misty Member

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    I applied for a job as CEO of game maker, I was denied...this is what happens, and I am not surprised.
     
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  31. nacho_chicken

    nacho_chicken Member

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    The free trial changes are very confusing and counterproductive. There are now reasonable alternatives to GameMaker that are FREE for hobbyists. Holding their projects hostage behind a relatively huge (vs. Free) $100 paywall isn't exactly going to instill confidence in new users or make them happy.
     
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  32. David Batty

    David Batty Member

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    Thanks for that, looks like those tweets make it quite clear.
     
  33. Lonewolff

    Lonewolff Member

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    LOL me too!

    I asked if I had to move to Scotland or if I could do it from home and they replied something along the lines of "You would need to assume that you would have to relocate".

    I told them "The Wife says no. Sorry about that".
     
  34. EvanSki

    EvanSki King of Raccoons

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    I did too, they said as amazing and helpful my https://forum.yoyogames.com/index.php?threads/how-to-pm-a-user-the-proper-way.57028/ thread is, that being that amazing disqualifies me

    edit: btw I figured out how to break quotes
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2019
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  35. XanthorXIII

    XanthorXIII Member

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    Kind of disappointing to see the publishing stuff close. I think that would have been a big benefit to a lot of us here but alas it doesn't seem that it was meant to be. I think instead of publishing, I think YoYo needs to look at building studios around it's products. Call it GameMaker for Teams or something like that. You could have a master account and from that license the different pieces of game maker. You have one person that Writes the code, two users that make and import art, a sound/music guy. Everyone still would install GameMaker on their desktop but control through the Master Account would grant each user rights to a specific role within a Project. It could be a one time charge of $299 plus say $5 a month per additional user or pay a full year of use of $50 in advance for each user. The idea is getting advance collaboration tools with this. The cost savings is that not everyone would have to have a licensed copy of game maker and would allow shops to scale to however they want. Keep in mind this is not for your individual user but for those who want to start a studio building games. I think this is what YoYo should do.
     
  36. Misty

    Misty Member

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    Download GM8.
     
  37. DividingByZero

    DividingByZero Member

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    Just to follow up on my issue - the support team was able to eventually get it working. So, submit a ticket if you still don't see the discount.
     
  38. FrostyCat

    FrostyCat Member

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    I'm often accused of forgetting what it's like to be a rookie around here, but that's just false. For better or for worse, I remember and revel in my rookie days far more than most people on this forum. In fact, I still have the floppy containing a copy of my first game from 2005, and I sometimes still play with old projects from 2009.

    I can tell YoYo with a straight face that I would have been gone a long time ago if today's policy change was what Mark did in 2005. None of the paid software I've bought from the past 20 years started as timed trials, they were all feature-limited trials that showed me enough of what they can do.

    YoYo should really realize at this point that they don't have a monopoly or even a prominent standing on the for-rookies arena anymore. Free alternatives are quickly gaining traction and we all know what they are. The D&D side gets no real community or resource support, and the GML side doesn't really hold up its end of the deal until Q1 2020 at the earliest. Engine- and IDE-level faults still regularly take a month or more to resolve (there's the word "month" again --- what does that coincide with?), and people are still having trouble logging into their licenses.

    I'm actually starting to be in favour of the legacy GM model again with indefinite time but only the most basic features, minus extensions and mobile/HTML5 exports. The current resource-capped model is basically useless because it is set so low that a reasonable first-timer project would be a "code golf" challenge, and the new 30-day model is even more useless because the tiny timeframe makes it a "speed language learning" challenge. Both of these challenges require prior advanced skill that new users simply can't be expected to have. I know YoYo has to make money, but with so many free alternatives that aren't deliberately crippled beyond normal use, YoYo no longer has the luxury of staying entirely out of that race.

    If YoYo is interested in expanding its paying user base, perhaps it should learn more about what GM was like when its most successful professional users started, and whether the upcoming policies would be conducive to their upbringing had they been novices today.

    There is a way: Getting GMS 2 License for Education > Managing Seats

    One assumption on that page is the constant insinuation of "per machine" as though it's some equivalent of the student population. In a school setup, it's common for one school machine to correspond to an arbitrary number of students. For a curriculum using GMS 2 to work, the licenses not only has to work on school machines, but on home machines belonging to individual students as well (for the duration of the school year, at least).

    Unless there's some clarity as to how seats are intended to be used and which seat setup is predominant, it really isn't possible to gauge the effects of the licensing policy change on GMS 2's educational license. But this needs to be communicated better through email, and existing students should have a way of finishing their homework using a non-trial GMS 2 as part of their institution's license.
     
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  39. NervousDoggo

    NervousDoggo Member

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    So after the 30-day mark will you be able to carry on using the software but with the limitations back in place or is the software just closed off to you completely until you buy a full license? See I'm currently running through a few tutorials on Youtube (Shaun Spalding, FriendlyCosmonaut etc...) so I can get a feel for GML, and see if I like it enough to commit to it over learning a harder language like C# or GDscript in the other engines available.
     
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  40. Xetanai

    Xetanai Member

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    Thanks for emailing to let me know to switch back to Unity. 30 days is far too little for a hobbyist with a full time job to decide to make a purchase this big.
     
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  41. Kezarus

    Kezarus Member

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    Yeah, this can diminish our community size. And makes little sense.

    And there is this on top of that.


    p.s.: my last comment was deleted and I apologise if I said something off topic (reason of the deletion)
     
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  42. Pfap

    Pfap Member

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    Having learned to code with Gamemaker I must say that these recent changes and wishy washiness does confuse me. I don't know Gamemakers niche, but they seem to have noticed that the education market is someplace they should focus.
    From the top post:
    It seems that they know the product is attractive as a way to learn about programming. So, I would agree with just about everybody here that the 30 day time trial makes little sense.
    30 days is plenty of time for a more advanced programmer to use and assess a product, but those learning will require 1-2 years if they peruse it casually. Unless they plan on former students falling in love with the product? Are they trying to attract a more advanced user base? I also wonder if the cost of running their services is too much to allow a free license? There has to be a better solution though...
     
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  43. Lonewolff

    Lonewolff Member

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    Geez, I dunno. I'm usually the first to have a moan and groan. But 30 days is plenty of time to decide whether you like GameMaker or not.

    I downloaded the free 'limited' version of GMS 1.1 (just as we were coming in to 1.2), having never seen, used, nor heard of GameMaker before. I was so hooked I bought the full version ($59 back then) the following day.

    "Half of us are kids and don't have jobs", I hear you cry. Still doesn't stop you from splashing $100 on the new 'Call of Duty' though. And you'll get a hell of a lot more use out of GameMaker than the next big fly by night game.

    YoyoGames realises that there are people out there, who will use, but never by GM. These guys are usually the ones who will complain the most about 'prices', 'free', 'other engines'. YYG will never make a cent out of these people anyway and they are a business after all. These are the ones who will jump back and forth from Unity, Unreal, back to GM again because these engine are geared towards larger teams, not the solo developer.

    Develop something people need and want with GM and you'll make your outlay back within a single month, easily. :)
     
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  44. EvanSki

    EvanSki King of Raccoons

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    Make a game in 30 days, you can only use a coding language youve never used before, go
     
  45. Lonewolff

    Lonewolff Member

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    As I said though. I had never heard of GM before and knew I has ready to make the purchase twelve hours later.

    You're not meant to make a game in 30 days and go and make millions from it, with the trial version.

    Trial version is there to help you decide if GameMaker is for you.
     
  46. FrostyCat

    FrostyCat Member

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    You're also not meant to decide if a product is for you without it making a good first impression and achieving something significant to incentivize your continued use.

    Ask 10 current GM professionals or experts for their first rookie releases, and at least 8 in 10 will show you something that blows through either the current resource cap, the future time trial cap, or both. And if I have the honour of being one of them, I'll be an example of one that goes right through both caps by the tenfold.

    The trial version is there to help you decide if GM is for you. It should not be there to hide its own strength by design or haste.
     
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  47. Lonewolff

    Lonewolff Member

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    Exactly.


    Weird, never had the resource problem. I guess I am an out of the box thinker then (but I am extremely proficient in GMS if I do say so myself).

    As for the time trial element of your argument. Then obviously in your example, you'd be well and truly ready to make the commitment to purchase. Or are you one of these people that bang on about wanting everything for free?


    Exactly.


    You have backed up everything, I just said. I am not sure that this was your intention though. :)
     
  48. TsukaYuriko

    TsukaYuriko Q&A Spawn Camper Forum Staff Moderator

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    While this string of events was applicable to your case, you can't judge others by your own standards. People with a different mentality than yours might not follow it - in fact, it may never even be set in motion if they already decided that something is not worth their time when they're nailed down with a deadline before they even started the software once.


    This discussion is not only about users of GameMaker. It's also about those who are not users of GameMaker.
    It's also not only about the technical side of things, or whether 30 days is enough to decide whether GM is for you. It's also about the side effects that are caused by having such a time limit in the first place.

    People who were using the free trial for more than 1 month now have their projects locked behind a paywall.

    People who started using it less than 1 month ago had their hammer replaced with a ticking time bomb.

    People who aren't yet users at all might shy away from opening the chest that might contain treasure if they hear the ticking coming from the inside. If it hadn't been ticking, those people might have taken a peek.


    It's not possible to convert trial users into paying customers when there is no influx of new users that could be using the trial because the conditions are turning them away, and the existing trial user base is essentially being held at gunpoint.

    That treasure chest isn't the only thing that's ticking here, though.
     
  49. Lonewolff

    Lonewolff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2018
    Posts:
    1,207
    Being held to a deadline, using trial software? Sounds like a very silly business move for any developer.


    Fair, to an extent.


    Common business practise. Adobe, Microsoft, Autodesk...


    Yes, this is certainly a whole issue in itself. Forced upgrade then suddenly a trial mode. Agreed, that's a tough one to swallow, for those users.


    Yep, certainly a risk with the new model.


    Also, true. Only YYG has the numbers, but I'd almost bet that the conversion rate isn't that high (hence the new move).
     
  50. nacho_chicken

    nacho_chicken Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2016
    Posts:
    427
    The problem being that GM is already bleeding hobbyist programmers to alternatives. Alternatives which are free for hobbyists. Assume you've got a newbie who wants to try out GMS2. End of trial comes and he's not sold yet. Moves on to something else. Eventually he wants to give GM a shot again. Oops! Free trial is over; he'd have to pay to give it another shot. It would take someone very loose with their money to say anything other than "Meh, I'll just go back to Unity/Unreal/Godot/etc."

    I agree with the trial period in concept, but in reality I don't think it's going to get a significant amount more people to buy in and it's pretty unarguable that it's going to turn off a lot of people.
     
    Bentley, EvanSki, Yal and 2 others like this.

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