Existential Nihilism and it's effect on gaming. Single most important post you'll ever read

[MikeDark_x]

Now I'm hungry...

 

[Misty]

also thank you for passivey bring up the fact that i should be compared to a felon simply for having an opinion different than your own.

You were the one that brought it up, not me. You said we should base our morality on cats, who are rapists and murderers and torture their prey.

this is you claiming that your mental processes need to be put in "easier mode" for others to understand, in other words your ideas are too complicated for the layperson, dont you see what you say looks like?

They were the ones that said my ideas weren't easy enough to understand in the first place, capishe?

you are not being persecuted you are being debated, the fact you cant tell the difference shows how devorced from objective reality this discussion has become. have you ever actually known true suffering once in your live? and no im not taking about hurt feelings i mean have you ever actually witnessed death in any of its stages? its one thing to watch videos on the web, its a whole different thing to have had to navigate a field of bloated corpses and ruins checking bodies to see if you recognize any of the disfigured faces.

Later on you will make a couple of statements that completely contradict the gist of this entire argument.
You will claim that meat eating is trivial, and I need to focus on the more important thing, this topic.
So according to you, dead bodies are trivial.
Then you go on to say that I am "sadistic"
So you are literally telling me that making a couple posts (that aren't even viscious sounding) on forums is "sadistic", which means you are very delicate.

have you considered trying to save yourself first? you are never going to save humanity or animals or the planet by acting as you do now and as for those who could teach you how to, do you think such masters would want a student with so much unfounded ignorance and arrogance, humility is a virtue.

First you say I'm too selfish, now you tell me I need to save myself first. Make up your mind!
I have no need for fraud master's and gurus, those kinds of people are one of four things.
1. Out to make money
2. Delusional
3. Want to dominate someone
4. Trolls
Sorry if I don't want to humble(humiliate) myself for some fraudguru, perhaps I should also put on my geisha outfit and make him a sandwich in the kitchen for my new master, I need to show him the proper respect and reverence xD
Second of all, if those "masters" were worth any salt they would have obviously saved the planet and animals already, or made some noticeable impact, which they did not, so they are all frauds.
Have you seen the movie "The Master"? It's hilarious and I think you need to see it.

and what gives you the authority to make such judgements over the entire human race?

Mathematics and logic. The mechanics are humans pollute the planet, so logically pollution should be stopped.

you are kinder than jesus and yet condem the entire human race as being unworthy of salvation?

Jesus said the same thing. He said humans are inherently unworthy of being saved and only through His grace shall they be saved.

so anyone who eats meat is a bad person simply because of that

Its simply because of mathematics and logic, killcount and quality of life.
Like, killing animals and giving them them a lower quality of life.
Capishe?

claiming you are kinder than jesus

~ Fixated on fantasies of power, success, intelligence, attractiveness, etc.

More like, fantasies of making the world a better place and avoiding the downfall of nature and every species on planet earth, including humans.

claiming through the butterfly effect ever word you say is making the world a better place

~ Self-perception of being unique, superior and associated with high-status people and institutions

That's because I actually am, it's an objective fact and I went to a prestigious school and met a guy who was a corporate leader of a famous corporation and I know a girl who runs politician's lives.

" than most others, other's being more hedonistic and self-absorbed, as based on their actions they care less of the wellbeing of other creatures, care less of nature or the wellbeing of the planet and the wellbeing of society than do I."

~ Needing constant admiration from others

I don't need it 24/7 but I would like it at least a few hours a week.

"I am also one of the most generous persons you will ever meet"

~ Sense of entitlement to special treatment and to obedience from others

So me wanting to give to others, means that I want special treatment from them?
How is that generosity, that is nothing more than a monetary transaction for service.

i could just pick on the meat stuff but this entire thread has been you telling other people what is right and wrong as if these opinions are superior to all others just because you hold them

Get it through your head - you are a primate, morality does not exist (except in your head.)
My version of morality is based on objective killcount, your version of morality is based on whatever Oprah says on The View.

~ Exploitative of others to achieve personal gain

Tell me, what have I gained? I stated in another thread I am not even a middle class or rich citizen, I am probably poorer than you are.

"And the lack of structure and lack of coherent conclusion fits the theme of existential nihilism. I reject your grading system and substitute my own, I'd give it an A-," ~ Unwilling to empathize with others' feelings, wishes, or needs

He gave my topic a C+ review. He was unable to empathize with my feelings wishes and needs.

~ Intensely jealous of others and the belief that others are equally jealous of them

Speak for yourself. I'm jealous of noone in this thread, and I can say that with confidence.

might be jealous of jesus, the jury is still out but their is an attempt going on to compare yourself to a religious god

I am not jealous of Jesus, he died on the cross and walked thousands of miles in the desert. If anything could describe my feelings of him, I am proud of him standing up to the evil society, but I am not jealous.

also on this list we can add sadism/sadistic desire given the fact that you said you want to hurt people who are mean to you.

Every human on this planet does, stop pretending you are different.

and your attention is being drawn away from the larger topic to small nitpicky things like meat eating anddeluions of how your a better person than everyone

Right, killing thousands of other lifeforms is small, insignificant, and a random forum topic on the Internet debating my personality is the "larger topic". And somehow, I, not you, am/are the crazy one. Right...

the combination of all of this means you ahve not only hit every single diagnostic post in this thread to qualify you for having clinical narcissitic personality disorder with religious overtones but also sadistic and schizophrenic tendencies.

Right, other people are posting pictures of dead animals, and somehow I am the sadistic one of this thread. Makes so much sense.

in short you have had a mental breakdown in front of everyone on a game developers forum and rather than realizing we want you to help us help you to get better (and remove yourself from the concept of social constructs which allows you to disreguard any concept you find uncomfortable) and you need to take responsability for your own emotional well being before you end up hurting someone or alienating everyone around you.

GM shrink to the rescue...
Like, I'm supposed to care if I hurt someone or "alienate" myself, when guy's like NPT (what do those letters stand for, again?) post intentionally offensive pictures of dead animals.

you need to find the humility to realize that you are behaving like a sadistic, schizophrenic narcissist and no one can help you unless you want to get better.

I'm beginning to think you are a troll.

I no longer take anything the species says seriously, haven't for a long time.

I'm way past the point of being mad. I take everything that is uttered from a human's lips as something you'd read in a joke panel, or comic book strip. How can I even be mad when the things they say are so absolutely ridiculous?

 

[MikeDark_x]

Right, other people are posting pictures of dead animals, and somehow I am the sadistic one of this thread. Makes so much sense.

Just a small question... you're killing plants to eat them aren't you? Or It's just cabbage lives don't matter to you?

 

[AlphaChannel]

They were the ones that said my ideas weren't easy enough to understand in the first place, capishe?

No no no. Sorry but no. Many people mentioned that they didn't get the point of the post. Some mentioned that it was full of words they don't understand.
Yet... here are two paragraphs I just wrote. Note the difference.



Simply using complicated words to much may make SOME people see you as someone smart and educated. Yet anyone with a thesaurus can do the same, does that make them smart just cause they utilize obscure words? Some people use complex words to sound smart, but are they really being smart? Or are they just stroking their ego and feed their delusional superiority every time someone says "Wow, you must be smart to know all those words".

Simply utilizing words of complex meanings and obscure origins gratuitously may cause a sizable percentage of the population to judge you as a legitimately educated intelectual. Nevertheless, as the thesaurus has become so accessible to the uneducated masses, can't anyone emulate a similar vocabulary? Is the sheer amount of words in someones vocabulary repertoire and their apparent obscurity a reliable indicator of their intelligence?


(This is a crude example but I hope you get the idea. I'm not saying or assuming that you use a thesaurus to sound smarter)

Expanding ones vocabulary is important, I'm not saying otherwise. It helps express our thoughts accurately. But using a word just because its complex when it really doesn't add much meaning essentially is inefficient, do you agree with this? Displaying ones vocabulary like a medal and imagining that you have to dumb down your thoughts to the level of the common folk is not just patronizing, I find it sad. Sad in the sense that you may be shutting out people with more limited vocabularies or who aren't fluent at english from your communication. Do they not have valid feelings and things to contribute to your discussion?

Anyways, forgive the rant. It is my opinion and point of view, it may be flawed, distorted, or just un-based and nonfactual. But its what I feel when I read some of your posts. Some people may agree with my sentiment, and that wouldn't mean I'm right. You don't need to agree with this post and I don't expect you to respect it, but I am honestly letting you know my point of view.

 

[BitZero]

I no longer take anything the species says seriously, haven't for a long time.

I'm way past the point of being mad. I take everything that is uttered from a human's lips as something you'd read in a joke panel, or comic book strip. How can I even be mad when the things they say are so absolutely ridiculous?

Then please stop posting. I don't really want to sound rude, but if you're not going to take us seriously and expect us to take you seriously, just stop. It's rude and another reason why people react adversely to your posts.

To be honest, reading your responses is 1) concerning and 2) shows me your logical basis is flawed—entangled in a deep web of self-rationalisation and inability to reflect upon it. The basic building blocks are there ... but the house you built lacks proper architecture.

It is my nature to hate people who are mean to me...yet there are rules and regs preventing me from hurting them the way I want to. If there are rules and regs against me freely obeying my natural cravings

i mean srsly wat.
You're being vague, so you could just be implying you want to slap them with a tablecloth, but I assume you mean something else. Which is concerning; especially considering you mention that to be your "natural cravings."

Not to mention, it's ignoble as well, the animals did nothing mean to you and don't deserve to die.

I don't see why they deserve to live either. but hey they tasty to me so chomp chomp (at least some animals are anyway ... don't be chompin your pets).

More like, fantasies of making the world a better place and avoiding the downfall of nature and every species on planet earth, including humans.

plz sav us misty

That's because I actually am, it's an objective fact and I went to a prestigious school and met a guy who was a corporate leader of a famous corporation and I know a girl who runs politician's lives.

Please refrain from being vague when you're trying to prove to us of your "specialness." Anyone can say these things. This just sounds like you're making things up to fortify your position. Also, none of these really make you special.

Get it through your head - you are a primate, morality does not exist (except in your head.)
My version of morality is based on objective killcount, your version of morality is based on whatever Oprah says on The View.

well i have a 300 K/D ratio with a kill count of over one billion my morality is obv better
Yes, morality does not exist physically, but neither does justice or countless of other conceptual notions. So morality is subjective. Great. Now the important thing a healthy, mature adult would do is reconcile their own views with society ... instead of becoming a fortress of ideological solitude. And making assumptions about the origins of JML's morality? naughty naughty shouldn't be doing that.

Right, other people are posting pictures of dead animals, and somehow I am the sadistic one of this thread. Makes so much sense.

Just because someone else is sadistic doesn't make you not sadistic. Not that NPT is being sadistic necessarily, anyway. Nor you, perhaps.

Anyway, we may as well start a new topic at this point—there is little remaining of what once was. perhaps a topic all about misty or maybe just animals.

... oops i did it again

 

[Misty]

Just a small question... you're killing plants to eat them aren't you? Or It's just cabbage lives don't matter to you?

Hold up guys, we're entering the daycare zone, also known as land of the loons, where people make up ridiculous arguments, yet are supposed to be taken seriously. Apparently, cabbage and lettuce has the same potential of sentience as brained animal organisms.
Cabbage and lettuce, a blade of grass, even rocks, are thinking, sentient creatures, higher creatures than animals, and humans are not primates or animals, they are special stars of the universe we need to protect, just like cabbage and lettuce.

To be honest, reading your responses is 1) concerning and 2) shows me your logical basis is flawed—entangled in a deep web of self-rationalisation and inability to reflect upon it. The basic building blocks are there ... but the house you built lacks proper architecture.

My architecture is sound. My goal is to increase the quality of life of all sentient beings, your goal is regurgitating whatever pop-culture morality you see on The View, at any price.

i mean srsly wat.
You're being vague, so you could just be implying you want to slap them with a tablecloth, but I assume you mean something else. Which is concerning; especially considering you mention that to be your "natural cravings."

I'm more concerned that you claim you never want to hurt anyone. Are you bottling up your feelings? Perhaps you should let them out.

I don't see why they deserve to live either. but hey they tasty to me so chomp chomp (at least some animals are anyway ... don't be chompin your pets).

Typical barbaric/hedonistic argument, low on logic and empathy but high on tradition and self gratification.

Please refrain from being vague when you're trying to prove to us of your "specialness." Anyone can say these things. This just sounds like you're making things up to fortify your position. Also, none of these really make you special.

So being chosen for an elitist rich school full of celebrity's kids and politicians, despite me being below the poverty line, does not indicate that someone thought I was special? Right...

Yes, morality does not exist physically, but neither does justice or countless of other conceptual notions. So morality is subjective. Great. Now the important thing a healthy, mature adult would do is reconcile their own views with society ... instead of becoming a fortress of ideological solitude. And making assumptions about the origins of JML's morality? naughty naughty shouldn't be doing that.

So I should bend my views to fit the mob of ignoble hedons and lemmings around me....right....and by not conforming to a wicked and corrupt society, this makes me unhealthy and immature...right...

... oops i did it again

Taste of music fits this decadent age.

 

[Nocturne]

Hold up guys, we're entering the daycare zone, also known as land of the loons, where people make up ridiculous arguments, yet are supposed to be taken seriously. Apparently, cabbage and lettuce has the same potential of sentience as brained animal organisms.
Cabbage and lettuce, a blade of grass, even rocks, are thinking, sentient creatures, higher creatures than animals, and humans are not primates or animals, they are special stars of the universe we need to protect, just like cabbage and lettuce.

Don't be so dismissive and arrogant about things you obviously haven't researched and know nothing about.

I find it interesting that all that is happening here is that one person responds to certain comments with reasoned and thoughtful thinking, while another simply refutes this by passive/aggressive attacking the person, offering no real evidence or logic to support their point of view other than "because I say so", essentially.

Let's look at some examples:

I'm more concerned that you claim you never want to hurt anyone. Are you bottling up your feelings? Perhaps you should let them out.

That claim was never made, and rather than address the rather disturbing issue that the OP has "natural cravings" to "hurt people the way he wants to", they have deflected the comment onto the person answering again.

Or how about:

So being chosen for an elitist rich school full of celebrity's kids and politicians, despite me being below the poverty line, does not indicate that someone thought I was special? Right...

First, it doesn't provide any evidence for the original claim, second it tries to make out that the person replying is an idiot (that "right..." at the end), and third the point itself is idiotic because going to an elitist school can ONLY imply that your parents are rich or that you got a scholarship. People that go to elitist schools are NOT inherently "special" and to think so is to think you are above other people morally, socially and intellectually. Again, a disturbing way of thinking...

Moving on...

My architecture is sound. My goal is to increase the quality of life of all sentient beings, your goal is regurgitating whatever pop-culture morality you see on The View, at any price.

LOTS here in a single phrase... Implying that the mental "architecture" of the person you are replying to is not sound, dismissing popular culture as irrelevant (it's popular for a reason? Maybe go look up the definition of culture?), insinuating that the person has no free will and is basically a sheep. *insert Picard facepalm here* Again, arrogance and aggressive dismissal of the views of others that are replying to what you originally said. Maybe revisit what you posted and actually provide insight and evidence to back up your point of view? Oh, right, you don't need to, because you are Jesus always right.

Finally...

I'm beginning to think you are a troll.

Pot calling the kettle black right there...

Seriously, in my opinion this topic is an ego stoking mechanism for someone that either thinks they are the greatest sociopathic narcissist that ever lived, or that is only here to create a giant troll to provoke extreme reactions from the users for their delight. I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle...

 

[graviax]

God I love this community.

 

[Misty]

Let's look at some examples:

That claim was never made, and rather than address the rather disturbing issue that the OP has "natural cravings" to "hurt people the way he wants to", they have deflected the comment onto the person answering again.

My argument was, it is natural to want to hurt others that hurt you.
If you, or the other honestly believe that you have never wanted to hurt anyone, perhaps it is you two who have the schizophrenia (split persona) not me. Do you truly know thyself, or are you hiding from one of your personalities? I am willing to bet that you two have had natural cravings to want to hurt people, just like everyone else, but you force yourself to forget in order to appear as what you believe to be normal.
Also I like the implied sexism. It is both misandristic and misogynistic. Apparently, the only people who want to hurt anyone are automatically assumed to be males, and also, apparently females are incapable of wanting to hurt people, according to you Nocturne, which is why you felt the need to insert completely extraneous male pronouns.


Or how about:

First, it doesn't provide any evidence for the original claim, second it tries to make out that the person replying is an idiot (that "right..." at the end), and third the point itself is idiotic because going to an elitist school can ONLY imply that your parents are rich or that you got a scholarship. People that go to elitist schools are NOT inherently "special" and to think so is to think you are above other people morally, socially and intellectually. Again, a disturbing way of thinking...

Noone said the word idiot, that's you interjecting.
I was simply countering his claims that my story was made up.
Secondly, you demonstrate some bad logic here. I never said "scholarship" and I explicitly stated I was below the poverty line at the time I was enrolled at this school, so your logic that I possibly implied my parents were rich just doesn't make any sense.
"Inherently special"? I recall my exact words being, "someone thought I was special."

Moving on...

LOTS here in a single phrase... Implying that the mental "architecture" of the person you are replying to is not sound, dismissing popular culture as irrelevant (it's popular for a reason? Maybe go look up the definition of culture?), .

Noone said anything about mental archetecture, we were talking about moral and philosophical architecture. For all I know he has decent mental architecture, just was corrupted by society and hedonism and needs some friendly reprogramming.

insinuating that the person has no free will and is basically a sheep. *insert Picard facepalm here*

Most people are, so excuse me for following the laws of averages and making reasonable assumptions.
Also, free will doesn't exist.

 

[Nocturne]

Also I like the implied sexism. It is both misandristic and misogynistic

I will concede that I chose the wrong pronoun there and should have used the more gender neutral "they". I have a number of trans and non-binary friends and usually take great care about these things, so I apologise for that mistake (although I do not accept your interpretation of it as misandristic and/or misogynistic... I am neither and my social networks, friends and family prove it )

Other than that you still evade all the issues and try to turn them back on the person you are talking with... It's also very telling the things you don't reply to...

 

[Misty]

Other than that you still evade all the issues and try to turn them back on the person you are talking with... It's also very telling the things you don't reply to...

Says the guy who only responded to one of my multiquotes.

 

[roytheshort]

I could post a picture of a clown in this topic and nobody would notice.

 

[Misty]

you confused being humble and being humiliated, why are you afraid of being vulnerable misty?

That a different subject altogether. My aversion to fraudgurus is not so much summed up in those words. But I will simply not sit down and be corralled by a kooky fraudguru or "master" who's full of beans. Ive already been down that crazy road ended up with a broken elbow and my friend jumped off a 3 story building because they they thought they could "fly". That's the power of organized group delusion.
But more important than physical injury, its just tedious and a waste of energy to have to sit through all of their ridiculous traditions and dogmas.

i really do think you are jealous misty, maybe not of jesus, maybe not of no one in this thread but of those people who have purpose to their life.

Hahaha no, I view most people who believe they have purpose as utterly delusional.
The only people that actually have purpose in their lives, are superphilosophers and brain scientists.
Although you are on to something here. I am hateful of those who claim to have purpose, the feeling is emotionally similar to jealousy but logically, it is not jealousy. I simply despise them for how stupid they are. I don't hate all stupid people, for example I don't hate Patrick from spongebob, because he is nice. I hate these people, for example stupid yuppies/Jersey shore wannabes/society supporters/hipsters in TV commercials because not only they are stupid, but they try to be my enemy, act unreasonable, let me down and shut me out whenever they can.

im not trying to pretend to be different, those are your words not mine, i understand your anger very well, but i also a long time ago took many vows and one of them was ahisma, that doesnt mean i wont tear down delusions but its always within a singular purpose.

Ahisma is so last year. I used to be like that for a while but I grew out of it, looked in the mirror and saw how pathetic I was.

their is nothing wrong with being crazy, so long as you adhere to curtain virtues you can do what ever you please, the larger topic of this thread is how you cope with your suffering in your life, is it so crazy to want one person to stop torturing themselves in front of others?

I believe the main cause of suffering is the passage of time. We are being utterly propelled forwards in time unable to hold onto that which is sublime, yet, we cannot stop time, because stopping time would be suffering as well, utterly boring and repetitive.

and i think you do care if you hurt others, its just it has been happening for so long that you now are trying despiritley to find anyway to reduce the suffering of everyone because you feel if others were not in pain then neither would you.

If I try to reduce the suffering of everyone it is in my best interest because then I will be voted into politics. But sometimes I just want to hurt people. Like when I watch TV, I especially hate all the normal people I see on it, I love to hate them, the more normal they are, the more I hate them, I just stare at the tv and think of so many different ways and levels of hatred of how to hate them.

why did you stop taking what people say seriously?

Because most of what they say is either utterly predictable, or bad/malformed logic, or ignoble, or a mix of all three.

and i agree, i think you are past the point of being mad as well, i think its just pain now, tear stained pillow covers

Crying is so last year. Now, the goal is to understand why our brain is bounded to our consciousness. That is the matter of supreme importance.

and prayers that you might wake up in a world where someone treats you with human decentcy any you can finally stop trying to control the pain and just accept that its a part of you.

FYI it makes me feel weird when people give me empathy.

now i might be completely off base here, but misty what ever has happened that has made you feel like no one can understand you, you need to let people understand you, not for who you want to be, but for who you are.

Most of them are incapable of understanding me, and when they try to understand me they usually say rude and hurtful things attached to it.
It's like every homeless man, you ever walk up to a homeless man and he tries to psychoanalyze you, only gets it half right and the rest is utterly downgrading and off the mark, despite him being well meaning, and you don't want to say anything to correct him or be rude, and it makes you feel like utter crap afterwards?

so rather than fighting, why dont you tell us a bit about your lifemisty , about what got you to the point where you feel that everything is rediculious and that if only people could understand how you feel you might actually be able to let yourself not be perfect and be ok with that imperfect you?

Basically, 99 percent of human interactions have driven me to this inevitable conclusion. At this same point in time, you've usually been disillusioned about pretty much every thing about society and question every so called "fact" and dogma you've been given.

and here is hoping you put as much gusto into trying to answer all of this post as you did the previous ones, if you tell us what is actually going on it your life it will be cathartic, putting your pain into words will free you from it, and of course some of the people on the forums will judge you but the fact remains that you will feel better once you realize that you can be a better person only when you let yourself.

We're past that stage, in the words of Patrick Bateman there is no catharsis.

Most of the time, I've always looked up to the villains and outcasts, and I proudly consider myself to be amongst their ranks.
For example, as a kid, I was obsessed with Angelica, from Rugrats, even though she was a bully and I hated bullies. So here's a picture of some cool villains for you, this villian's name is Taco Tuesday:

To be honest, I've had a crush on James from Team Rocket for as long as I can remember, I tried to put the crush away because he is not real, however the crush has intensified and I can't get him out of my head.

 

[MikeDark_x]

To be honest, I've had a crush on James from Team Rocket for as long as I can remember

And that explains why Ash left you

 

[Misty]

And that explains why Ash left you

Ash probably had a crush on Pikachu.

 

[MikeDark_x]

Ash probably had a crush on Pikachu.

That too, although he could actually have a crush on Jessie, or who knows, even on Brock

 

[Misty]

you seem to have an aversion to the idea of a role model/master/guru, take the term what ever you will i grant you their are many people who seek that title without actually having the apptitude to realize that they have to be worthy, but im not asking you to be coralled, the fact that you dont want to conform is a good thing but i need to understand what, to you, would be a person worthy of your respect.

It would take an awful lot for someone to impress me to the point of respecting them. I'm not sure it can be done.

as for your friend my condolences, did you end up breaking your elbow in the same event?

No but both events were caused by the same atmosphere of group delusion. My friend did not die from the fall but later committed suicide I believe.

to be honest any fashion trend or the entire speculative stock market is a shared delusion, i mean have you ever been to a comic con? objectivity goes right out the window.

Too many people in the same area, that combined with too much kawaii desu and I might have the probability of too many people I'd have to befriend and find myself in the precarious situation of prioritizing who to befriend/who not to befriend thus opening myself to a position of regret and missed connections.

to be honest any fashion trend is a shared delusion, though i must ask, why is it bad, to you to be delusional? how do you you measure it and check for yourself if you are being delusional or not? im not saying you are im just trying to understand your line in the sand?

By virtue of utility.
Not all fashion is delusional, some fashion has objective aesthetics which are beautiful. This is completely empirical, for example Call of Duty has measurably bad aesthetics which cause me physical migraines and nausea. This is measurable because it gives me physical pains and illness. Beauty is not a vice but a virtue. Delusion is measured by it's lack of utility - breaking your elbow after being ordered to do risky and repetitive maneuvers day and day out for sake of obeying traditions instructed by your master, has no utility.

and may i ask, are you jealous of the superphilosophers and brain scientists? if you are not thats ok but if you are i would like to know why.

I am not jealous of brain scientists unless they are more beautiful than me or have more wealth, fulfilled dreams and power than me. Since I am a superphilosopher, how can I be jealous of that which I am?

so you dont hate people for being stupid but you do dislike people who are willful ignorant? like the people who actively disreguard reason and then shut down others opinions even though their opinion is no more reasonable than the other persons? or the people who waste their lives trying to conform and gain approval from a group who care nothing about them or anyone who tries to wear a mask and pretend its their real face?

I hate those people but I also equally hate those who are just plain ignorant. Like hipsters and yuppies you see on TV commercials that support society and stupid social things, and they don't even know how ignorant and stupid they look.

might i ask why you consider such people your enemy? i mean lets be honest i was jumping up and down a few posts ago until i realized you are trying to be honest, took me a while to realize that and i appologize, but the relationship with the people you interact with can, and should, be quite fluid given the facets involved but calling them your enemy shuts that down and im wondering if thats just you trying to avoid curtain people or its just you trying to come to terms with people who, in your mind, are not being honest.

Because they cannot be reasoned with. Like dogma pushers or Kim Jung 2, or generic governments that continually oppress everyone's quality of life for no reason.
Take meating for instance. I'll suggest to a meater, only eat it once every 3 days to save animals. After all, lions in the wild only eat meat once every 5 days. Yet they will just ignore me because they don't give a care, the only thing they care about is their hedonistic modern dogma. And their arguments are not even logical sometimes they will make arguments telling me a bag of lettuce is sentient.

ahisma is thousands of years old, only thing last year is your comprehension of it and thats ok, its a incredibly complex and sublte subject and most people in the west never meet someone who has studied it for years.

Half of the wests are paranoid fear mongers who want to ban guns. Is that not part of the ahisma tradtion?

but that point aside, why did you grow out of it? why do you feel pathetic when you look in a mirror?

Because it was a dogma.
It's also ignoble not to avenge those who deserve it. It's also not terribly enlightened...if life is meaningless (which it probably is) then why should the innocent suffer endlessly while the wicked receive no retribution? It's just ridiculous, like continuously shooting yourself in the foot because of some dogma.

nah their is nothing wrong with the passage of time unless you are trying to hold onto nostalgia of better days in the past, would you want to stop time if you could, if only breifly? or go back in time?

Because life is swept away by the waves of time...becomes meaningless don't you think? All your past "experiences" swept away as if they never happened in the first place. Once you go deeper on the path to being a sage you will start to become very keen of this process and hip to it's machinations - you and I will be on the same page.

people dont get voted into politics for reducing suffering, in the us now the person who wins gives out more handouts which is the root of the destruction of the economic system, unbalanced budget.

I believe we should keep the handouts to the poor, but stop giving them to the rich. They are running our country to the ground.

b

ut why do you want to hurt people, i understand thats alright, i get an inkling you feel that way because you have been hurt or because you want to shock them into realizing that their apathy to others suffering only increases those peoples pain.

It's all about power and control. They present an image of hypocrisy to society, act like they care about people like me, act like a goodie-two-shoes, yet behind close doors they deny me my pursuit of happiness, are rude to me and treat me like dirt...Yet nothing bad ever happens to them and they are protected and praised by society.

there is no conciousness, only emmergence, there is no intelligence either.

There is consciousness and intelligence. I defined what intelligence is in my deleted thread. "Analysis, Abstracting, Computation, Creativity, Empathy, Pattern Discernment, Nonbias (or Introspective Calm), Reasoning, Humor, Memory, Vitality (aka Brightness or Drive), Instinct, and Taste. "

the only time you are ever truely aware is in your dreams.

lolwut

though to the fact of questioning everything , whats important is not only the ability to desconstruct your presumptions but also to learn how to reassemble on your own. too many groups right now from cults to "grass roots" foundations to social groups have gotten into the habit of pointing out flaws but then either dont explain why, or if they do demand you replace it with a equally if not more flawed alternative, in essence they dont try to be the change they promote. their is nothing wrong with examining delusions but you have to be able, and willing, to both take apart even your mostly tightly held convictions and to be able to reassemble them.

Kind of like the new world order. They want to kill off 95 percent of the population, thing is I doubt the world they want to make is actually going to be any better than this craphole we have now, and most certainly won't be anywhere close to a utopia. If it's any indication, I went to an elite school of the uppercrust, all buttholes.
Bill Nye's idea of a "utopia" is everyone pedaling around in bicycles...what a bore.

you are not a villian misty, come on you know that, i can understand how the concept to you could be liberating, a person who is not subjected to the whims of an irrational society but what the modern world calls villians the ancient world called sages/seer/rishi, the fact that such disrespect is shown to such people (or the attempts to portray society as evil and it must be destroy) are both flawed because in all situations its just indaviduals trying to understand the world.

So mass murderers are sages?

actual genuinely evil is something i hope you never understand because its not spikey horns and pitch forks, its not selfishness and their is no "good" thats the opposite of it, there are many things much worse than death or pain or suffering and im comfortable in saying that you have never been exposed to those worse things because if you had i would know it by the words you use, and that im grateful for.

How is there anything worse than death pain or suffering? Pain and suffering are circular definitions, by their own definitions they are the worst.
Death is generally thought of as erasue of memory (a loss of information and power) and physical pain associated with the transition, as well as entering the unknown (unknown=random grab bag, 50/50 bad outcome). The atheist idea of eternal nothingness is ridiculous and nonsensical.

interesting your bringing up a crush at the end of this, do you know why its intensified and what caused it in the first place?

Old videos.
What caused it? My first crush was on Mewtwo then James. Why because they are cool and sexy.

oh and for the love of bob you are on a game developers forum, go to the programming section and go learn how to do some new stuff, the only way you will improve your outlook and position in life is through knowledge and dedication, now go make an undertale clone or something until you get good enough to make some original IP.

Never played undertale, no incentive to make a clone of it, and I am already good enough to make any game I choose.

 

[Misty]

even the old concept that insanity is doing something over and over again expecting a different result has been false

Of course it was false, it was a silly definition made up by Einstein, not the official definition of insanity, and for some reason, due to dogma, everyone defines insanity as that silly joke definition made up by Einstein.

ummmmmm misty....... you measure fulfillment in life by beauty, wealth, dreams and power......... ummmm ok where do i start...... nothing of materialistic value has any inheirent purpose, these are examples of sunyata, they dont exist,, i mean whats more valuable, the jewel or the hand that can pick it up? to put it in the term you did before those things have no untility, beauty is fleeting, wealth, exspecially wealthbased on debt, is slavery, dreams are well dreams,

Later on you will completely contradict this view by saying dreams are the "one true reality" ?? how can dreams be more true than anything else if beauty doesn't have any substance?
Obviously, dreams have a certain beautiful quality to them which gives such an essence.
one does not simply cave into entropy and call chasing after beauty "vanity"....Pleasure and satisfaction are not vanity nor is it necessarily hedonistic amoral degeneracy, infact in some cases, pleasure and satisfaction are needed to avoid amoral degeneracy..

figments of your imagination and as for power the air going in and out of your lungs right now has more power stored in it than any nuclear bomb humanity has ever dropped,.

Utterly ridiculous dogma, you probably read that in a science book somewhere. If it takes more power to release the power to achieve the same amount of power, then something cannot be said to be very powerful. It's like saying a Flintstones car is more powerful than a Lamborghini because it is pushed by strong men, and strong men contain more atoms, therefore they are more powerful than a bomb....ridiculous and cannot be taken seriously as a philosophy.

and i know you might hate me for saying this but misty, you are not a superphilsopher, you are just a person like everyone else,

I am a superphilosopher and I am not like everyone else. I am a better philosopher than Neitzche, Einstein, or any of the others.

also lettuce speficially has been considered sacred by more than a few cultures, just saying

Group delusion and dogma. And let's say that lettuce, or piece of cardboard, or a rock, is sentient. Cows require a lot of vegetables to eat, so by birthing and eating cows you are killing more vegetables than a vegetarian.

as for how ashima factors into this its very simple, keep the tyrants at bay, if they know their will be consequences, that truth will triumph, then the lies will just give them away.

How can you say truth will triumph when humanity has a historic record of spreading lies? And how can you be sure tyrants will "have consequences" when they have technology, weapons, and vitriolic group delusion on their side?

vengance doesnt do anything and justice is not vengance.

Dogma. Probably this dogma arose centuries from a society which doesn't care for vengeful virtues in an effort to protect their own hedonistic debauchery. Vengeance does a very specific thing, which is preventative measures against injustice, as well as inflicting karmic pain on those whom deserve it. The current justice system is not justice, but an injustice itself, therefore vengeance is the only option for actual justice.

could you please define the word englightenment to me please in your own words because im worried your definition of that term is the western "rational , informed, aware exc" idea and if thats the case thats very far away from the truth.

knowledge is not enlightenment.

Enlightenment is a process of deeper understanding, no it is not simply mere knowledge. Nor is it leaving your body to experience in some kind of chemical blisstrip oneness with things, except in the sense that such an experience could potentially add more deepness to your understanding (unless you turn such an experience into some kind of religion, as many do.)

their is no innocent or wicked though misty, only the selfish and the selfless and like i said before about their being no consciousness, that the thing you think is you is just a collection of ideas you are holding onto, both the wicked and innocent have ignorance spread equally among them and as much as you might not think it, for the most part people really do choose the reality they exist in, sure there can be terrible realities but the can always reject it if they want to, their are always other options even if you cant see them.

Dogma and nonsense. A selfish person can be noble, and a selfless person can be wicked. Consider a mindless killer who never thinks about themselves, but focuses only on others when they give them the blade. Then consider a selfish person who wants to help everyone because they couldn't bear anyone suffering because they see themselves in them. Furthermore, we are not responsible for our realities, you are repeating more dogma's that you have been told.

as for the shooting in your foot i live in a part of the world where every year their is a festival of ritual self flagulation, people piercing their cheeks cutting open their skin and folding it back to expose the muscle, slising their tounges lashing thsemselves, wrapping their arms in barbed wire, and this is just the summoning rituals and not what happesn in the actual temples. the streets run red with blood and the smoke is so thick from the fire crackers that you cannot breathe. what you might think if rediculous is all a matter of context because these people willingly slice their own bodies open without hesitation.

This is what I mean when I say humanity is sick and disgusting. These people need to be prevented from infecting others with their degeneracy and lowering everyone's quality of life. This is what you get when a large crowd is under group delusion, everyone's quality of life is thrown out by an insane body of mob.

we should suffer because that is the choice we have made, suffering makes us better people so long as we overcome our own limitations, that said if you have suffering forced upon you, like ending up in a car crash when the other person is drunk, thats not right but the reason that happens is because of our own ignorance and we should want to end that ignorance, not get angry at people for being stupid because they dont know.

I'm fairly certain drunk drivers know but are just too rude and foolheaded to change their behaviors.

as hard as it is to believe, we are in paradise right now compared to horrors just a few meters underground or a few miles above the earth, and part of paradise is that you create and uncreate it yourself but that is the individuals responsability.

Fallacy, organisms don't grow on lifeless planets, nor do we grow a few meters underground or few miles above the earth. Organisms do not give thanks for merely existing within the natural parameters that caused them to exist, and this society isn't even satisfying the natural parameters needed for satisfied living.

the rich are rich because they are the country, they built the reality others inhaibit and they gamed the system to their advantage as they built it.

I'd say it's 50/50. The black slaves and asian railroad builders helped build it too, yet for this they were rewarded with social osctracization and breadcrumbs.

no one should need handouts unless they ask for help and only if its to making it so they can fend for themselves, better to give a person a fishing rod than a fish, otherwise people grow dependent and helpless and cannot survive, if handouts are needed something is already very very wrong.

It's not good to give fishing rods when the lakes are polluted. And your last statement is a fallacy. We should replace factory workers with robots, and give every one free money. Money is an abstraction it is a digital form of quantized wealth. With robots doing the heavy lifting, that's procedurally generated free wealth is being generated at maximum efficiency (the cost is only a bit of gasoline and a couple of mechanics and overseers to run the robots.) The only problem I foresee with this is those who wants robots to start killing humans, people not getting the proportionate amount of handouts in relation to the robot replacements, at that point robots will become a problem.

power doesnt exist, only conception, you create something new then reality will change around it.

If we want to get into semantics, I can argue creation doesn't exist, only transformations due to inertia. inertia=power, so actually power does exist.

let them treat you like dirt, i curtainly have but thats only because i know what im capable of and i dont want to live in a world where i need to do those things.

I don't want to live in a world where everyone is treated like dirt.

i mean thats the entire concept behind vishnu and shiva, one is the greatest lie of all comprehending all the possibilities that can come from it and destroying all others in its wake, the other is a light which puffs out the other in an instant leaving a world liberated.

Not too familiar with those.

but if their is no pattern to recognize then their is no recognition and if their is no recognition then their is no intelligence

But there are patterns though. Unless you live in whitenoise land.

you heard me, the only true reality is the one unfettered by the limitations of the human body, to me at least.

Dogma. I've heard many "one only true's" before.

nope im not buying that, no one knows what the global empire will look like, not even those who are actively pushing for it, their is no reason to kill off 95% of the population because right now their is no way to be sure which 5% will survive, just remember that this was already tried and it failled

Noone ever attempted the 95. Ted Turner wants to kill off 95 percent.

choice, misty, we can choose worse things. sorry i know im being cryptic but there are some things which just thinking about can tear you apart, where you would gladly suffer so you dont have to think of them or beg for death to get away from if death could actually free you (and it wont). im not going to do that to you because those things have destroyed me many times, they still do and their is no one on earth, no matter how horrible, i would wish that upon.

What you described sounds an awful lot like suffering. So you never defeated my argument, you just proved that suffering is the worst. You are being cryptic, so I can't go into it very much further.

the first pokemon movie? if not may i ask what? and why mewtwo? im just trying to understand whats appealing, does this tie back into you sympathizing with the villian you mentioned before or is it something else completely unrelated

Loved the anger, that combined with his hateful masculine persona and feminine wide hips and something about him was deep and intense which I found very moving.

ok ill bite the bait, can you show me something you have made, preferablly the more embarrased you are for how bad it is the more interested i would be in seeing it if you think it has potential, and i swear if you do show me i wont try to take the, i got enough on my plate what with the physics tile games im working on.

How sadistic. You want to see me embarrassed? Think I'll pass up your generous proposal for the moment, though I may change my mind later.

and lastly, can i get you to admit this is a much nicer conversation then was being had before with all the confrontation? you dont need to force things or feel anger towards people who have opinions that are different than your own.

I prefer the original conversation, this one is getting darker and I find myself having to repeatedly have to raise my defenses against the dogma.

 

[AlphaChannel]

I prefer the original conversation

I forget the original conversation as this thread has taken so many turns. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

[Misty]

You aren't a super philosopher like me, stop trying to be. Your ideas are henids, half-thoughts, half formed ideas, ideas in the proto-stage, not fully complete. Sure you're smarter than the average Joe, but I question your philosophical standing.

For starters, you throw a fuss when I don't answer your irrelevant questions. Irrelevant questions like "What does it take for me to look up to someone and respect them" I find to be irrelevant and pointless to answer. Seems like just egotism. Also, your incessant desire to have a heart to heart, and to answer all of your social questions, reminds me of group therapy.

no dreams are the continuity through which we make sense of the shadows, and i said dreams are equally as meaningless as beauty in that you are looking at what you want to see, not what is and is not.

This is an example of a henid.
You post a vague terminology called "shadows", in order to sound poetic. But it is vague and not-complete, we have to insert our own guess of what you mean. It's poor communications. The second sentence is a run-on sentence which adds unneeded confusion. And your statement isn't solid...dreams are really a case of seeing "what is", and your other statement isn't really that well-formed, I would rewrite it as "We look for beauty, as beauty is what we want to see."

"im not like other girls"

The fact that you even have those meme's in your head, means you give them some kind of value priority in your memory, I for example have different classes of memes which are more pertinent to my style of philosophy.

hydrogen bomb, we got a giant one in space, the initial cost of starting the reaction =/= the energy which can be gained from sustaining that reaction over a prolonged period of time, power is relative to your access and understanding of said power which means it is a form of knowledge and thus it is only a power when you have it and others do not. but in the end if their is no knowledge because intelligence is derived from recognition or all people have access,potentially, to the same knowledge then no power exists.

Another example of a henid and run-on sentences. If everyone has power, then power still exists. Like, if everyone walked around with death-rays, the power of the individual would increase.

i said lettuce was sacred not sentient........

You used it as a defense, pertaining to the original context of sentient vegetables.

ok superphilosopher, what acomplishments or reputation do you have to make said claim? where is your publish refrain, the body of work lending creedance to your name? you do realize that in no way was Einstein a philosopher, he was a mathamatician who gained notority because he proved light could bend around an object during a solar eclipse.

Another lame nitpicky argument taken out of context, Einstein wrote a book you know but I agree, he wasn't really a philosopher, I was just using him to prove a point. But this is an argument ad authority fallacy, whether or not I wrote a book is irrelevant to my claims.

they have every right to practise any culture they desire.

Most cultures peer pressure and brainwash others to follow their culture, so no.

you told me what enlightenment is not, tell me what religion is, a deeper understanding of what...... you completely avoided this question, what is englitenment?

I am more interested in your definition of it.
But one kind of enlightenment is realizing that the person on the other end of the post, is a Consciousness like me, and that our lives are very short in order for our Consciousness to enter others. It is all one sick playground in which we torment ourselves endlessly. Unless of course I'm wrong, you don't experience, and solipsism is all there is.

also while we are at it could you define the word dogma because at this point i think you are throwing that work out when ever you disagree with something, how is helping others selfish.

Empathy is the art of projecting someone else's self and assimilating it into your own.
But I need to clarify something. Your use of the English language is imprecise, for example people use terms like "selfish" and "selfless" and they often use them loosely in pop-culture sense, without getting down to the core meaning of things. So I continually find myself being misinterpreted and misunderstood by you.
What I mean by dogma is you seem to be heavily influenced by the pop-culture narrative based on your dialect and the manner in which you convey yourself to me. You are also ripe with many fallacies, even the old "they've been doing it for centuries" argument ala tradition fallacy.

inertia - a tendency to do nothing or to remain unchanged.

power - the ability to do something or act in a particular way, especially as a faculty or quality.

the tendency to do nothing is the ability to do something?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Again a henid, demonstrating your lack of understanding of Universal energies. The entire Universe operates by Inertia, for instance a car motor is a complex arrangement of substance in order to achieve a transformation (via the near endless inertia of the universe) in a very specific way.

irish worked the railroads too, funny how you choose to pick the current trends towards marginalized minorities when not that long ago the italians were just as alienated in the us.

Marijuana and opium was specifically banned as a war on minorities. Also, my argument had nothing to do with race, so I don't know why you are even talking about it. My argument was to say that the rich basically screwed everyone over, and yet you implied they deserved all the wealth because they built this country.

where does money come from? and how would free money have any value? monopoly money for all??????

also money is not an abstracted form of quanitized wealth, that is currency please learn the difference in definitions between money and currency.

you basicly sounded off on some kind of of robot marxism right there and i love the last part where you said the robots become the problem because if it was people who rose up and starting killing the owners (per marxism) then you would say the workers are a problem.

so in one breathe your talking about how ethnic minorities were rewarded with breadcrumbs and then in the next sentence say that if they rose up that will become a problem (if they were dehumanized as robots) as you just did. do you comrehend the hypocracy in the contradiction you just made?

This is a complete henid and none of it makes any sense. I never said anything about ethnic minorities rising up against their owners. I said it would be bad if robots started killing randoms on the street. I dont even see the irony either, ethnic minorities have no right to kill randoms and neither do robots.
Money is an agreed upon token in order to exchange various services and goods. It is a virtual abstraction, not an actual service or good.

patterns only exist among differenitation, if the would is underlyed by some basic constant then no patterns exist except the natural perpetuation of furhter combinations of those constants (and if we are lucky new constants might emerge).

You aren't making any sense. So if I make a game maker game with a couple constants, the game has no patterns? Also, spell check never hurt anyone.

why would anyone want to kill 95% of the population, becuse you dont approve of them? i want to hear you actuall justify this position because this is the usual kind of fear mongering and yet never can you find a coherent justification for why this should be done, the people at the top curtainly dont want to do it, otherwise they would have to tend to the fields and growing their own food themselves.

I never justified it, so this is just you rambling (again).

no their are many thing much worse than suffering, if you really want to know go read the old greek mythologies thts as good of a start as any and it will atleast be somewhat familiar to you.

Your books are just gonna point me to some other kind of suffering...gah you just don't get it do you..

its not sadistic to ask you to actually prove to me you are doing something with your life, and you already have embarrassed yourself in front of everyone on this forum, i probably am too but the only reason why is because i am actually hoping to find out if you are all hot air or you are actually capable of doing something.

I don't like showing people my works when they are hostile about it.

 

[Paolo Mazzon]

You aren't a super philosopher like me, stop trying to be.

 

[chance]

[snip]
i live in asia, i have been here most of my life and for 1/4-1/3 of my live i have lived as an ascetic, like never weighing more than 60 kils until i was around 20 years old.

That's interesting. Is this for religious or spiritual reasons? Or just a personal choice? Other than food, what things do you abstain from?

 

[heyimdandan]

I take your point (way back in the original post) about over saturation... I've been making electronic music for years, and in 2012 got round to actually completing a full album of all my favourite stuff. Sent it loads of A&R and one label told me that if it was 1997 they'd have signed it without hesitation. But in 2012 they're just not making enough cash to justify it and to keep chipping away. Compounded by the fact that they're out of the door with rubbuish and what I'd sent them was a breath of fresh air. The world is full of contradictions. In the end I published it on Amazon and iTunes myself and have spent more money keeping it on there than I've ever made back...

 

[Paolo Mazzon]

the fact is you are none of the things you have claimed to be, you are not a super philosopher, your not even a regular one, you have done nothing to justify any of the claims you have made, i would say its childish but children have a capacity and desire to grow.

This "philosophical" "discussion" has basically degraded to flaming.

I didn't even notice this till it was pointed out.

This is a complete henid

Again a henid

Another example of a henid

This is an example of a henid.

Nope, they aren't henids (Can henid be plural?). Perhaps you tried to spell a different word wrong and ended misusing the word henid 4 times.

 

[chance]

Nope, they aren't henids...(snip)...

Actually, some are. Because they attribute Misty's arguments to vague personal motives. Of course, when the tone of one's argument is overly complicated and uses language that's probably inappropriate for the context, it invites speculation about ulterior motives.

In other words, Misty is a henid magnet.

 

[Misty]

Can't even, I'm arguing with a total troll.
He is literally saying that I am saying robots are the same as blacks and asians...and that "polluted lakes" is some kind of metaphor for minorities...you are totally crazy and you aren't a philosopher. You exhibit tendencies of traditional fervor...quick to make vows and talk about mutilation of bodies for "ancestor worship" as if it's a good thing...

 

[chance]

Let's break this cycle, OK? This back-and-forth sniping is boring.

Maybe we can go back to Misty's original comments and discuss one of them. As @heyimdandan tried to do:

I take your point (way back in the original post) about over saturation... I've been making electronic music for years, and in 2012 got round to actually completing a full album of all my favourite stuff. Sent it loads of A&R and one label told me that if it was 1997 they'd have signed it without hesitation. But in 2012 they're just not making enough cash to justify it and to keep chipping away. Compounded by the fact that they're out of the door with rubbuish and what I'd sent them was a breath of fresh air. (snip)

Was it a case of market saturation? Or maybe that the latest "in style" was just dominating at the moment. In mass markets like indie music, it seems like buyers' taste can change rapidly. Popular stars can become nobody overnight. And vice versa.

 

[Snake Is Pink]

*reads first post*

my mind has, hereby been blown.

 

[Roa]

I don't understand the point of not eating meat. Your body is clearly designed for it, from your teeth, to your jaw muscles, to the digestion process and organs. Critters taste good. So do some plants. I shouldn't have to live off fake nutrient sprayed pressed together plants to make up my diet in the 21st century. Like people already complain enough about how artificial and processed foods are. All these new age vegans would die in the ages past because you couldn't just spray the health factors onto everything lmao. You had to eat different things to keep going. If dinos were around, they would be eating you without a care in the world lol. At least humans have the capacity to care about the lives of other animals at all. We are the only things in the known universe that actively and regularly take responsibility to nurture and protect other species, so to say eating meat is inhumane is silly. Life is a competition and no one/anything is special.

I have no problem raising and eating a few moos and birds to have that tasty chicken sandwich or a burger and steak lol.


Also, a funny yet terrible note about vegan/vegitarian products, they still flavor the meat with "extracts" from real meat 50% of the time aka , the blood that was cooked down lmao. Have fun sleeping tonight.

 

[Misty]

I have no problem raising and eating a few moos and birds to have that tasty chicken sandwich or a burger and steak lol.

Typical hedonist argument with no substance, your argument is Me Me Me...It makes Me feel good therefore it is good...
According this kind of logic, rape, murder and theft are all good, if it makes the burgalar, rapist or murderer feel good, it is good.

Vegetarians would die in the old ages without meat

First of all Peter Gabriel is a vegetarian, yet all of his music is dedicated to glorifying the old ages, he is a sage from an older age, his music is very medieval sounding, so don't tell me that meat eaters are less modern than anyone else, they are not authentic from the old ages and very modern.
Second of all, Lions only eat meat every 5 days...the human body can go without meat for weeks, so where is your justification for eating meat every day?

Also, a funny yet terrible note about vegan/vegitarian products, they still flavor the meat with "extracts" from real meat 50% of the time aka , the blood that was cooked down lmao. Have fun sleeping tonight.

Urban legend, a myth and false information.

Noone uses blood for flavoring anyway, it tastes like iron.

 

[Roa]

Typical hedonist argument with no substance, your argument is Me Me Me...It makes Me feel good therefore it is good...
According this kind of logic, rape, murder and theft are all good, if it makes the burgalar, rapist or murderer feel good, it is good.

That's not my argument at all. My argument is that I don't care about a false sense of morality for not eating meat, when about half the animal kingdom are meat eaters, and we take sole responsibility for all forms of life. Eating meat is natural, healthy, and as the very tip top of the food chain, completely evolutionary. Life and natural process doesn't care what people find moral or humane lol. I don't even know how you compare rape and murder to eating, but ok lol.

First of all Peter Gabriel is a vegetarian, yet all of his music is dedicated to glorifying the old ages, he is a sage from an older age, his music is very medieval sounding, so don't tell me that meat eaters are less modern than anyone else, they are not authentic from the old ages and very modern.
Second of all, Lions only eat meat every 5 days...the human body can go without meat for weeks, so where is your justification for eating meat every day?

What?? I'm not talking about how musicians reflect on anything. I'm talking about how 200 years ago, the entire concept of veganism wouldn't exist because there wouldn't be the technology and supplemental health to pamper the ideology. People would get sick only eat simple plants. If you were truly vegan and not just vegetarian, you would die in days, as your meal was probably domesticated eggs and birds, full unprocessed milk, and what ever fruiting plants you could aggregate in a few hundred feet of land, that would indefinitely be plowed and tilled by animal labor.

Also, full grown lions weigh 3-4 times that of the average man, they eat a lot. These first links from the most basic google search seem to agree to about 10-20 pounds a day, and lower amounts only accounts for the fact that they need to actually go find their food vs pick it up from the store when ever they are hungry. Let that sink in. Next time you're at the super market, go ahead and count 20 1lb packages of ground chuck lol https://www.reference.com/pets-animals/lions-eat-85b13f2e4847f46a# http://www.lionlamb.us/lion/lionfact.html

I didn't even say anything about eating meat everyday. I just think not eating meat is silly.

Urban legend, a myth and false information.

Noone uses blood for flavoring anyway, it tastes like iron.

:3
http://www.eater.com/2015/9/29/9410199/natural-beef-flavor-vegetarian-what-is-it

"Essentially, it's a flavoring product that has components derived from plant, meat, seafood, or dairy products. That doesn't mean they aren't still a product of science — these flavors are often enhanced and altered in a lab, but, in contrast to artificial flavors, they start with organic rather than synthetic ingredients" (read the FDA definition too lol. Roasted and cooked down, extracted with enzyme decomposition.)

"As Gary Reineccius, a food chemist specializing in flavor research, explains, "natural beef flavoring" isn't necessarily from beef at all. "A long time ago the food industry looked at the price of beef and said, 'If we want to put that in ramen noodles or gravy, we can't be extracting flavor and throwing away the beef — it's too expensive,'" (by word choice, it means it isn't necessarily beef free either and that they are dancing around "technicalities" so it doesn't upset people :3)

"According to Reineccius, "the flavor in beef is created during the cooking process. Food scientists identified the amino acids found in beef, added some very common sugars — starch hydrolysate — put it in a pot, added some citric acid to drop the pH, controlled moisture content, and heated it to the same temperature as meat."

http://www.aminoacid-studies.com/amino-acids/what-are-amino-acids.html
"A large proportion of our cells, muscles and tissue is made up of amino acids, meaning they carry out many important bodily functions, such as giving cells their structure. They also play a key role in the transport and the storage of nutrients. Amino acids have an influence on the function of organs, glands, tendons and arteries."

 

[Misty]

What kind of argument is this? You're telling me 200 years ago vegans couldn't exist? What about Indian monks and such?

"eating meat is not the same as rape and murder"
They steal the babies from the mother and butcher them.

Your choice of words "softens" issue..."Eating meat' diverts the issue from killing, enslaving and butchering animals. Elsium type tactics, restructure the language so people don't have to be conscious of the facts. Instead of eating cows, it's called eating beef.
If you are gonna eat roadkill, that's morally fine. But don't enslave animals against their will and expect me to be okay with it. And no, enslaving animals is not natural at all, it's completely a manmade monstrocity.

In all my days I have never seen the word "Natural beef flavor" in any vegetarian foods, so I will just have to add another one of your bogus arguments to the list of your every growing list of bogus arguments.

 

[Roa]

*cough*

They live by others doing the work for them lol. http://www.clovegarden.com/diet/buddha.html

Baby back ribs are pretty good. I don't see people complaining when eggs are swept from nest by rats and snakes, or when coyotes get the much slower baby gazelle vs the adults that abandon it to its death because its much easier to have children again than risk their own life half the time. That's still not comparable to forcing yourself on someone causing trauma and physical damage for a 1 minute of pleasure or taking the life of someone in and organized society. Eating another animal for survival vs damaging someone close to you potentially for life to get your rocks off is are different ballparks entirely.

No one draws the conclusion that eating meat draws away from the fact that you have to kill something. Not unless you are a 5yo girl and the world is sunshine and rainbows and babies are still delivered by the stork and the most complex conflict in their life is what they will trade for sarah's cookie at lunch. Raising animals for food and work are the corner stones that first world society is built on, or would you rather be running around nomadic and hunting in the the wild? Without animal husbandry, the massive fields of food wouldn't be possible. Settling down in homesteads and cycling the land of crops wouldn't have been possible. The boom of the industrial revolution wouldn't have been possible. Should look up the stages of civilizations. Being as we are the only things in known existence with instrumentality and reason, breeding animals is part of our claim. And personally, in my point of view, animals are here for the use of people. Again, name another creature that takes other species life into consideration at all, and actively builds and assist in protecting and growing as part of their responsibility. Another species that caters to the well being of others instead of pushing them out.

Let me know when you find the next pack of coyotes that have the compassion to open a veterinarian clinic and wild life preserve for other species, especially ones they eat lol. I'll wait.

Not my fault you don't read fine print on labels either.

 

[Misty]

Noone eats meat to survive. You said it yourself, you eat it because Me Me Me Me likes the taste of it, yes?
5 year old attitude?

Cough cough...posts pictures of lion king videos and says human society is the same as lion king...
5 year old attitude?

Coyotes are not as evil as humans because 1. They don't enslave other animals 2. Mothers are provided a fighting chance to save their young...
Humans don't even give them a fighting chance, they are brutish, oppressive, and totalitarian.

Your argument is a non-sequitor, saying the world isn't sunshine and rainbows isn't an argument...

Africa, or the middle east, isn't sunshine and rainbows, but is that a valid reason not to want to improve society? If you lived in the middle east, and they banned chess from you, would you say to yourself..."Life isn't sunshine and rainbows...therefore it is perfectly okay, and I should do nothing about it. Life isn't sunshine and rainbows, therefore it's perfectly alright that I'm living in a third world country with no rights and they banned chess from me, nothing I should do, I will simply obey society because society knows best."

 

[Roa]

@Misty
You're intentionally misconstruing what I am saying at this point and its not even fun anymore.

I never said no one eats meat to survive, and I never said it was just for kicks.

The 5yo mentality and sunshine and rainbows was me taking a jab at the fact that you seem to think the world is oblivious that meat comes from slaughtered animals, like the world has been sheltered and doctored into believing otherwise somehow. Like somehow I was being disingenuous and deceitful to innocents by not saying "dead animal carcass" over "beef".

I literally said nothing about lion king lol. It was a joke on the inference of the term "circle of life", a concept that evades you.

Your ability to even make calls on right or wrong is a solely humanitarian concept and not applicable to coyotes perception of anything. They don't care about what's fair. They are animals misty. Their "morality" is living at what ever cost, and its foolish to think that they wouldn't over run other populations if they had the overwhelming capacity to do so. Your view on husbandry is completely subjective and sorry to say, but most of the world doesn't share your view. The entire idea that you think "improving society" means not eating meat is a self serving view to settle your own conscious insecurities. You don't like breeding and killing animals, we get it, but the fact of that matter is that it has been essential for modern societies to flourish and its one of our biggest sources of food and nutrition.

Industrialization is a product of our species and we will use that just like any other animal would use tactics to get their food. Comparing board games to cultivation, the thing responsible for the human population being as big/healthy as it is and coming out of the dark age are again, completely different ball parks.

If you don't like how a very few mass breeding farms handle their cattle and birds, then fine, go make picket signs or what ever, but if asking the world to stop using its natural resources and eating certain things which are an absolute truth in every corner of the world is your goal, then you have serious misplaced ambitions.

ps:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur_(logic)

 

[Misty]

The concept of "circle of life" doesn't evade me, but it seems to evade most humans. Humans contribute absolutely nothing to the health of the planet, cause thousands of species and habitats to go extinct each year, but have the audacity to think that hordes of animals owe them their lives, as playing their part as contribution to the "cycle of life" and "natural way of earth".

Ciggarrete beaches everywhere. What hypocrisy.

 

[Nocturne]

The concept of "circle of life" doesn't evade me, but it seems to evade most humans. Humans contribute absolutely nothing to the health of the planet, cause thousands of species and habitats to go extinct each year, but have the audacity to think that hordes of animals owe them their lives, as playing their part as contribution to the "cycle of life" and "natural way of earth".

Ciggarrete beaches everywhere. What hypocrisy.

You can't escape the fact that we are a part of nature, and what we do is as much "natural" as is the construction of a birds nest, or the destruction of coral for a bacterial infection. Habitats have been destroyed by things before humanity arrived (dinosaurs anyone? Was the asteroid that killed them off unnatural?) And animals have destroyed their own habitats before us and commit atrocious (in our human eyes) crimes... Lions kill their cubs, dolphins commit rape, and one fish forms gangs to throw a comrade to a predator...

So, what humanity is doing is exactly what any other animal in this wonderful world would do if it had no predators and the same intelligence... Nature created us, we exist in nature, and everything we do is natural otherwise it wouldn't exist. If we, and what we do, are not natural then what are we? Supernatural? It's an absurd argument, and you can't place us neither above nor outside of nature.

 

[Misty]

Nocturne, you and I are on the same page.
That was my whole argument to begin with.

This guy, is acting like we should base our morality on lower animal species, and you said yourself what horrible things they do. So it's ridiculous to argue "nature this" and "nature that".

I could argue that chemical toxins in a nuclear waste dump are natural, since they are made by men, and men are products of nature, and the chemicals are made of atoms just like everything else, don't mean it's good to drink.

 

[Roa]

This guy, is acting like we should base our morality on lower animal species
.

lmao, no. (as if animals had concepts of morality to base anything on in the first place).

No, I'm acting like your morality is not the deciding factor on if people will eat and raise animals and that relating that to what is and what isn't acceptable isn't in your hands. You're the one implying that simply eating animals is inherently a problem with people and society the world over, something everyone does by instinct, and I'm telling you that's complete BS. This doesn't even come down to morality. You're trying to shame people out a biological design of our very being because your feelings tell you its wrong in your point of view.

And don't even try to twist it and argue that I'm implying that because animals do something, people should act just as savage. I've never even come close to saying that. You wouldn't even have to make that distinction if you weren't trying to force the notion that eating animals was somehow incompatible with being civilized and devoid of humanity. You're the on that keeps making the connection that eating animals is somehow primitive and beneath social norms. I'm just telling you it's biological and has reason

You sure do make a lot of presumptions for someone that wants to rationalize a zealot view of damning the world that doesn't share your values. That's a pretty high pedestal to stand on.

 

[Misty]

That is my point exactly. Humans have no morality.

They are an amoral, barbaric and savage species with no morality, that deceptively tries to push a social facade that says they aren't.

 

[MikeDark_x]

That is my point exactly. Humans have no morality.

They are an amoral, barbaric and savage species with no morality, that deceptively tries to push a social facade that says they aren't.

Wait wait wait, by your way of speaking you're putting yourself above humanity which is a huge mistake.

We all, are the same, morality is just something we created in order to live in peace together, which most animals don't do. I do know that humanity tends to prefer barbaric stuff in many cases, but I also have faith, I don't believe in any superior being, but I do believe in something, humanity's potential to do good things, I mean I know that we might screw up every 5 minutes, but what about that? we aren't perfect beings and we can't aspire to be one either, we are chaotic by nature, and still, we can grow, and live in groups, not harming each other, we are moral because we need morality to live in society, but everyone's concept of morality is different, but it's usually based on a single thing, empathy.

 

[Misty]

Wait wait wait, by your way of speaking you're putting yourself above humanity which is a huge mistake.

We all, are the same, morality is just something we created in order to live in peace together, which most animals don't do. I do know that humanity tends to prefer barbaric stuff in many cases, but I also have faith, I don't believe in any superior being, but I do believe in something, humanity's potential to do good things, I mean I know that we might screw up every 5 minutes, but what about that? we aren't perfect beings and we can't aspire to be one either, we are chaotic by nature, and still, we can grow, and live in groups, not harming each other, we are moral because we need morality to live in society, but everyone's concept of morality is different, but it's usually based on a single thing, empathy.

Humans don't have empathy towards animals outside of their specie, except for their pets.

Their empathy towards other humans is "we won't eat you".

Humans treat their pets better than other humans.


There is nothing wrong with putting myself above humanity, because I am above humanity.

Let me ask you something. You have never raped or murdered someone, correct?
So, there's nothing wrong with putting yourself above a rapist or murderer.

 

[Roa]

I feel like I'm getting the run around in some elaborate cat and mouse joke and I'm secretly being laughed at. No matter what I say, its going to be bait and switch for the context to match a conversation we never had. I can't tell if its a bout case of D.I.D/ M.P.D. , or we are grasping at straws so hard to save face, that context and subject matter is being thrown to the wind. I don't know what you are doing or what's happening, but I think I should bow out before I suffer an aneurysm.

 

[MikeDark_x]

There is nothing wrong with putting myself above humanity, because I am above humanity.

Nor is it wrong to say I am better than humanity, because I am better than humanity.

All I hear from this is empty vanity.

So, there's nothing wrong with putting yourself above a rapist or murderer.

Why would I need to, I mean I know I won't rape a person because I believe it is wrong, and so does most of the society, but I would not mind committing murder if it's to protect somebody I care for or to take revenge on someone who hurt a loved one, but why would I need to put myself over them, just to feed my ever growing vanity? just so you know, vanity on it's own is a bad thing, and speaking of hitler, the only way you can claim to be better than him is if you know that you can do the same he did but you decide not to, Misty, I'll ask you something simple... what would you do if you had complete authority over a country?

Their empathy towards other humans is "we won't eat you".

Well actually the empathy is what stops us from inflicting harm to others, I know you lack it as you want to hurt others, well if you could see another person as your equal, instead of putting yourself above them, you'd know what empathy is, it's putting yourself in the shoes of the other and learning that you shouldn't hurt them as you know you wouldn't like to be hurt.

The no eating other humans is a bit derived from it, although I believe it's more related to religion and to people wanting to be better than animals, as we all know that wanting to be better than others is a natural thing we have

 

[Misty]

All I hear from this is empty vanity.

So, saving lives is vanity? To not denouce meat eating, and to not celebrate one's vegetarianism, is to endorse apathy towards saving lives.

Misty, I'll ask you something simple... what would you do if you had complete authority over a country?

I would make the rich pay their taxes.

 

[MikeDark_x]

I would make the rich pay their taxes.

I'm talking about stuff that can be done, not this imaginary stuff

So, saving lives is vanity? To not denouce meat eating, and to not celebrate one's vegetarianism, is to endorse apathy towards saving lives.

Empathy is towards those equal to you, so if you feel that animals are the same as you... wouldn't you be also doing the same things animals do? like eating other animals? or, are you also on a higher tier than animals? if so what you say is not empathy but instead misericordy, a thing only those that feel that are better than others do.

 

[Roa]

I would make the rich pay their taxes.

Oh no! lol.

I hope you are aware that "the rich" pay 99% of all federal taxes. Not local state or city, but almost all federal taxes. Let it also be known that the more companies pay in taxes (to fund government welfare programs) the less companies can pay their workers and the more they raise prices. The only end loser of raising taxes on "the rich" is the lowest man on the pole, mean while the government takes the money as taxes, (which is not traded for a service, unless you count government programs as a good thing, so it loses value) and spends it 5 times as unethically and ineffecinetly as anyone else would in things like healthcare and welfare, which wouldnt be a problem if companies could afford to pay their workers in the first place.

Companies cant take losses because it takes money to keep money. They start taking loses, they start fireing people. Then those people start needing more welfare. See the problem here? What really needs to happen is companies need to have their taxes cut like crazy. Increase the taxe brackets based on gross income only, and lets capistalism do what captism does without the government sticking their hands into literally every buisness practice out there.

Taxing company owners even more is just collectivist socialist ideals and an ever slippery slope to marxism.

 

[Misty]

I'm talking about stuff that can be done, not this imaginary stuff

Empathy is towards those equal to you, so if you feel that animals are the same as you... wouldn't you be also doing the same things animals do? like eating other animals? or, are you also on a higher tier than animals? if so what you say is not empathy but instead misericordy, a thing only those that feel that are better than others do.

Cows don't eat other cows, so I don't see where your logic is. Cows never kill other animals, so your logic that they deserve to die just doesn't add up.

Oh no! lol.

I hope you are aware that "the rich" pay 99% of all federal taxes.

Taxing company owners even more is just collectivist socialist ideals and an ever slippery slope to marxism.

Not really no.
You see most rich organizations just bank in foreign countries so they don't have to pay much of any taxes at all.

Also, consider the fact that 90 percent of the taxes just go back to the rich, and only 10 percent of taxes goes to the poor.

 

[MikeDark_x]

Cows don't eat other cows, so I don't see where your logic is. Cows never kill other animals, so your logic that they deserve to die just doesn't add up.

Wolves eat cows, so are you saying we should eat wolves instead?

I don't say they deserve to die either, I don't get where you got that from, maybe YOU want them to die, because they will probably go extinct if we don't raise them as food

​

 

[Misty]

I don't say they deserve to die either,

So you are vegetarian then?

We shouldn't eat wolves or cows.

because they will probably go extinct if we don't raise them as food

That's an entirely different discussion, and the fact that humans cause almost every species on the planet to go extinct is yet another example of backwards humanity in action. What's not to hate?