Endless RPG 2

Kezarus

Member
Hi! I'm developing the second version of Endless RPG that sold about 1k units in 1.5y. It's basically an open random generated living world RPG with turn-based where you can create any kind of party of heroes you want. All Skills and Items are balanced and there is no better strategy or unique/obligatory item. Think Battle Brothers light with magic and you are close.

On this new version we will have:
  • A More Living World
  • New Rules
  • Bigger Map
  • Monsters and Beasts
  • Dungeons
  • Actual Quests and Dialogue

LIVING WORLD
All worlds will be randomly generated. I'm using a noise generator from @RujiK from this post (thanks again! πŸ˜„).
There will be:
  • Towns
    • Where the player can get quests, buy items, skills and other characters;
    • They will grow with time, create other towns nearby, go to war with neighbors and could be destroyed;
  • Evil Centers that will spawn from time to time and create war parties and destroy whatever is nearby;
  • Dungeons and Interest Points where the characters could have small adventures;
  • Snow System that will cover and recede in the map depending on the month;
  • Day Night system with speed up and down;
  • Rain system;
  • Player Parties and Worlds are dissociated, so the player can create a new world and play with an old party and vice versa.
All art is still placeholder, I'm thinking about getting the art from this guy. But here are some screenshots:





NEW RULES
We like simple fast rules here. So 3 Attributes (Power, Speed, Mind) that goes from 0 to 5 (like D&D bonuses), Skills that are game changers, not just plain bonuses. we have 117 already balanced (but not tested). You can train your characters in towns. One mechanic that we put here is removing the ToHit and Dodge mechanic and created a "Guard" mechanic that is basically a health bar and the player would know how much damage he will do, not just luck tests. We are keeping weapons groups and categories like these.

BIGGER MAP
First game have a 100x100 map but now we have a 300x300 map that is 9 times bigger. We are still testing a map of 500x500, but that is insanelly huge about 250 Towns could fit there and 750 Dungeons. We are settling for 300x300. =]

MONSTERS AND BEASTS
We got a huge asset pack with lots of sprites. Most are for heroes but there will be animals and monsters too. I'm looking forward on animating these on the new GM Sequences System. =]

DUNGEONS
These will be generated by nodes and @RefresherTowel is giving me some stellar ideas on how to make it.

QUESTS AND DIALOGUES
In the later Endless RPG we didn't made a very in depth Quest System, but now we are focused on making something that is meaningful and interesting.


And that's it! It's a awful lot of work to be made. I'm making the world now and about to tackle map movement and pathfinding(algo is ready though). The combat system doesn't have 1 line of code yet, but all actual system is well written and ready. My brother (economist/game designer/QA) is testing it BY HAND until I make the system. Dungeons have only ideas and Quests will be a can of worms I'm sure. I think that all this project will need about 2 to 4 years to complete. Wish me luck! πŸ˜…πŸ˜
 

FoxyOfJungle

Kazan Games
This procedurally generated map is very interesting!, reminds me of Minecraft. Will it take that long? 2 years is so long πŸ€”
But what you already have is getting really good, I just think the game is a bit "too square", is there any way to make it a little "rounder", even if this is the style of the game, I think it would be more cool it more round/natural (for example, rivers). πŸ™‚
Anyway, good luck! I will be following the project whenever I have time. No Demo yet, right?
 

Kezarus

Member
This procedurally generated map is very interesting!, reminds me of Minecraft. Will it take that long? 2 years is so long πŸ€”
But what you already have is getting really good, I just think the game is a bit "too square", is there any way to make it a little "rounder", even if this is the style of the game, I think it would be more cool it more round/natural (for example, rivers). πŸ™‚
Anyway, good luck! I will be following the project whenever I have time. No Demo yet, right?
Thanks, mate! So my brother talk a LOT about these rivers being blocky, but I'm using tiles so I'm not sure on how could I make them less so. πŸ˜… I'm also using a code that make bitmaking sprites inside of GM without me needing to do all possible tiles. It's like a border on tiles. If you have any idea on how could I tackle this I will really appreciate it! =D

About time, Endless RPG took 2 years to make from start to finish and we are aiming higher now. Aaaaand I already work from 8h to 17h on my regular job... so yeap. πŸ˜…

And still no demo, it will take a huge amout just to get an alpha. We just begun development. The world is barelly finished, but the first is on Steam. Tell me if you (or any of you) want a key for it. =]

Thanks @RichHopefulComposer and @FoxyOfJungle! =D
 

FoxyOfJungle

Kazan Games
Thanks, mate! So my brother talk a LOT about these rivers being blocky, but I'm using tiles so I'm not sure on how could I make them less so. πŸ˜… I'm also using a code that make bitmaking sprites inside of GM without me needing to do all possible tiles. It's like a border on tiles. If you have any idea on how could I tackle this I will really appreciate it! =D
You could perhaps use paths, create the paths procedurally and then draw primitives from the points, I have a very old project in which I draw a texture on the paths, if you want I can send it privately. I think this would be the easiest way.


About time, Endless RPG took 2 years to make from start to finish and we are aiming higher now. Aaaaand I already work from 8h to 17h on my regular job... so yeap. πŸ˜…
Wow, a long time! I think I spend between 6 to 14 hours a day doing my projects (with breaks).


And still no demo, it will take a huge amout just to get an alpha. We just begun development. The world is barelly finished, but the first is on Steam. Tell me if you (or any of you) want a key for it. =]
Oh, cool! Ok, good luck!
 

RujiK

Member
Looks really cool! I'd love to see some procedural towns and the day/night cycle.

The cynic in me must warn you of two obvious things.
1. The game sounds REALLY ambitious and may be too much for a small team. (I'm sure you've already thought about scope, but don't be afraid to cut back.)
2. BIGGER does not (always) equal BETTER! I see your trying to increase your map size from 100x100 to 300x300 to 500x500, but be wary of the "a mile wide but an inch deep" that happens to some giant worlds.

I speak from experience about the bigger maps. I wasted over a year trying to make a giant procedural map interesting: (I made it giant, but it was not interesting)
So this is a slightly sensitive topic for me and I don't want you to waste as much time as I did. Good luck on your game though!
 

Kezarus

Member
Yey, thanks @RujiK. \o/ I really liked that algorithm of yours! Fast, elegant and easy to modify and understand. Sorry for spamming your name so much about it, I just want to give credit. 😁

I already made most of that scope on Endless RPG "1". The new things will be the use of GM2, Monsters, Dungeons and Quest Lines. I'm re-writting most of the code from Endless 1 and not just converting, but I got a huge experience from it and it's waaaaaay easier to do that this time. =] And EVEN then... 2 years seems to be little time. XD

About huge maps, yeah! I even did a rant thread about this. I was pushing a LOT to make it work on 500x500... but then I calculate "well 1 minute just to go from 1 Town to the next, 250 Towns = 250 minutes just to see them all... 😐... welp! Scrap that!" XD

So this is a slightly sensitive topic for me and I don't want you to waste as much time as I did. Good luck on your game though!
Thanks a lot for sharing. I too worry about this. There is no point in random gen if all places looks the same. My growing algo for Towns and Evil Centers are already up and running and Towns ARE way different already (each structure and town race sells specific items/skills). We are planning a ruler mindset for each Town too to give specific quests.

Thanks and I would love to talk more about random gen.
 

Bearman_18

Member
Damn, this sounds pretty sick! I still have the demo of the first one lying around on my PC, now wish I had played it more. XD But I've been getting into a lot of western RPGs lately, so I'm excited to see where this leads.
I love that list of new features. Especially the idea of the "Evil Centers."
 

BenRK

Member
I'm a bit grumpy that someone is working on a game I've been designing in my own time, but at the same time excited to see where it goes. Dang it, stop being inspired by making a Dwarf Fortress adventure mode that is fun to play! That was supposed to be my thing! :p
 

Yal

πŸ‹ *lemon noises*
GMC Elder
but be wary of the "a mile wide but an inch deep" that happens to some giant worlds.
I concur with this... I personally prefer the term "1000 bowls of oatmeal" over "a mile wide but an inch deep" to really get the point across, because some people really like shallow exploration (kinda like how the young'uns of today think "putting onions on the salmon" is a positive expression) but nobody likes oatmeal. If you generate samey experiences every time, nobody cares about them being technically different.



All Skills and Items are balanced and there is no better strategy or unique/obligatory item.
This sounds like a balancing nightmare and also a bad design idea (players like upgrades, and you want more complex systems - e.g. systems involving resource management - to be more powerful than easier systems so that the effort involved in learning them feels worth it)

Some things I'd recommend working in, if possible:
  • Design things as systemic as possible (like in an immersive sim like Deus Ex or Dishonored) so you can come up with fun unplanned interactions. For instance, if everything made from wood as a "flammable" parameter, throwing fire spells around willy-nilly can set the whole dungeon you're in on fire... intentionally or unintentionally. If all metal objects conduct electricity, you can short-circuits prison bars to hit a guard that's asleep leaning towards them, and so on. If enemies are difficult but predictable, the player can be encouraged to mess around with these systems pretty easily (if there's no clear dominant strategy that trivializes everything, at least)
  • Gear durability (with a limited system to repair damaged/broken gear) so that it's worth carrying backup gear and consumables like bombs even when you've got really good gear, and it's worth using cheap copper swords and stuff to reduce repair expenses for things that need more rare materials. Basically it makes looting new stuff worthwhile through the entire game, and finding a rare thing early on won't permanently ruin the balance.
    • If this also applies to enemies, it can be used to the player's advantage! Throwing jars of acid that damages gear can make tough enemies easier, but the drawback is that you won't be getting any good loot of their corpses.
  • Gear stripped off enemy corpses (and pillaged from ruins) will have reduced durability or be completely broken, while stuff bought from a blacksmith will be at full durability - this gives players an incentive to visit towns and save up money.
    • If the player helps a town thrive the blacksmiths and other merchants will level up, offering higher-quality gear.
    • Pickpocketing enemies gets you their stuff without damaging it, so thieves get more profitable.
  • Random affixes (which usually reduce one stat but boosts another, or add a special effect like elemental damage/resistance) can make items feel more unique. Affixes also come in tiers, and items obtained from a higher-tier source (e.g. stolen from a mayor's private stash) have a better chance to have higher-tier affixes, even if the item itself is very mundane.
  • Giving civilizations / religions / towns their own specialty items that you won't find anywhere else helps giving them their own identity, and also helps prevent the oatmeals issue. It could be functionally identical gear with different flavor text, or an attunement towards one of the gameplay-based archetypes (for instance, towns affiliated with the paladin order has more defensive swordfighters, towns affiliated with the alchemy guild has more potion sellers, and so on).
    • This also should apply to crops (though it makes more sense to have them differ based on climate foremost and civilization second)


Final note... the graphics look very RPG-Maker-y. If you're actually using the RTPs as a placeholder, keep in mind that they're licensed for use with RPGM only.
 

Kezarus

Member
Hey @Yal! Thanks for dropping by!

I read happly your message as most of things we already plan as you said! =D

This sounds like a balancing nightmare and also a bad design idea (players like upgrades, and you want more complex systems - e.g. systems involving resource management - to be more powerful than easier systems so that the effort involved in learning them feels worth it)
Yes, it's a nightmare for my brother to test. And he is doing so by hand. XD
The idea of no better weapon or skill is that, for example, swords are the best on every occasion. That's not good for us. As we made them, swords are good for defense, but have a hard time against armor. And maces excels against armor, but againsts unnarmored foes an axe is better. Got it? ^_~ There are a lot of mechanics like that, this is but one example.


Design things as systemic as possible (like in an immersive sim like Deus Ex or Dishonored) so you can come up with fun unplanned interactions. For instance, if everything made from wood as a "flammable" parameter, throwing fire spells around willy-nilly can set the whole dungeon you're in on fire... intentionally or unintentionally. If all metal objects conduct electricity, you can short-circuits prison bars to hit a guard that's asleep leaning towards them, and so on. If enemies are difficult but predictable, the player can be encouraged to mess around with these systems pretty easily (if there's no clear dominant strategy that trivializes everything, at least)
Yey! Fireballs already destruct terrain and Lightining completely bypass armor. There is a lot a shenanigans like that. Have a peek on the last game list of skills. The new game have the same ideas, but the rules have changed.


Gear durability (with a limited system to repair damaged/broken gear) so that it's worth carrying backup gear and consumables like bombs even when you've got really good gear, and it's worth using cheap copper swords and stuff to reduce repair expenses for things that need more rare materials. Basically it makes looting new stuff worthwhile through the entire game, and finding a rare thing early on won't permanently ruin the balance.
  • If this also applies to enemies, it can be used to the player's advantage! Throwing jars of acid that damages gear can make tough enemies easier, but the drawback is that you won't be getting any good loot of their corpses.
We ditched the durability mechanic in favor on simplicity, we got a lot of questions about rules on the first game, very basic stuff, so we are trying to get it as easier as possible. But we have some consumables now! =D


  • If the player helps a town thrive the blacksmiths and other merchants will level up, offering higher-quality gear.
Yes! The more a player stick to a Town and help them, the best items/prices they get. Price is for Reputation, and item variability is because of how many Smiths are on Town (from 0 to 3). This is also bound to the Town population.


Random affixes (which usually reduce one stat but boosts another, or add a special effect like elemental damage/resistance) can make items feel more unique. Affixes also come in tiers, and items obtained from a higher-tier source (e.g. stolen from a mayor's private stash) have a better chance to have higher-tier affixes, even if the item itself is very mundane.
We just finished to define Sockets the other day. So a player will be able to put a jewel in a weapon/armor and add a mechanic to it.


Giving civilizations / religions / towns their own specialty items that you won't find anywhere else helps giving them their own identity, and also helps prevent the oatmeals issue. It could be functionally identical gear with different flavor text, or an attunement towards one of the gameplay-based archetypes (for instance, towns affiliated with the paladin order has more defensive swordfighters, towns affiliated with the alchemy guild has more potion sellers, and so on).
  • This also should apply to crops (though it makes more sense to have them differ based on climate foremost and civilization second)
Another yes! \o/ Dwarves have Tier 3 Weapons and Heavy Armor made from Adamant, Sylvans offer Tier 3 Weapons of Mithril and Yew and Light Armors, and so on. Crops and other resources depends on terrain and what buildings the Town have. A Port gives fish, Farms Grain, etc.


Final note... the graphics look very RPG-Maker-y. If you're actually using the RTPs as a placeholder, keep in mind that they're licensed for use with RPGM only.
Hmmm, that could gives me trouble if I made a video with them, isn't it? I will have to change them eventually. Thanks for the heads up!


I'm very happy that our ideas about it align, except for durability. Thanks for commenting! =D
 

Kezarus

Member
Oy, @Gaijin, try the 1st version if you like: Endless RPG. It's 20% discount right now.

But if anyone in the forum wants a Steam key just ask me and I happily obliged. =]

I admit it's not pretty, but it's fun. There are players that spent +90h with it. =D
 

Kezarus

Member
IDK if you saw on my status updates, but the Living World part of the game is done.

Last things that I added was:

War parties, that go and destroy parts of a Town. It is possible that the entire Town is destroyed.

Merchants, they origin in a Town and trade with others. That increase the reputation between them.

Bandits and Animals that are generated on the map. Bandits roam the map, attack Merchants and Flee from everything else. Animals patrol a point of origin and attack everything that is different from them.

Now I'm currently gathering the courage to make the Turn-Based Combat from scratch. πŸ˜…πŸ˜


edit: btw, the graphics are crap. I plan to hire someone to make the sprites as soon as I finish the Combat.
 
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Kezarus

Member
Welp today just some very basic stuff. Creating the Combat map with random gen. Gonna need some floor sprites.

Grassland:



Forest:


Close-up:


And desert:
 

Yal

πŸ‹ *lemon noises*
GMC Elder
To make things feel more alive, I'd recommend having patches of "alternate terrain" (perhaps with a blob-autotile set for each type?) with frequency and size parameters based on terrain type. Forests might have patches of moss or occasionally small puddles you can walk over, grasslands have footpaths where the vegetation has been worn down and patches of tall grass, and deserts has... uhh, more sand?

If you look at a high-bit game like CrossCode you'll see that there's almost no large contiguous regions using the same tile, especially not rectangular. Having this chaotic mix of different graphics helps hide that you're reusing a handful of tiles everywhere and conveys the organic shapes expected in nature... and it just so happens that computers are pretty good at fair randomness.
xc_sandstudy.PNG
 

Kezarus

Member
Welp, place snow by Asset Layer was a LOT easier now than it was on the first time.

Chars are on the screen too. =]
1610901699467.png
 

Kezarus

Member
After 1 week rest, just made the diagrams for the attacks. Well... this is going to take a while to code...


ATTACK SEQUENCE - AREA _ BUFF.png

ATTACK COMMAND.png
 
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