Feedback Disclaimer?

[Neptune]

As a solo dev, if your game is quite more difficult than its art-style portrays, do you think sending this kind of message is a good call?
Or just disclaimers in general? "This game is not a pick up and auto-pilot and requires attentive reading."

Let's hear those opinions! What would you do?

 

[nacho_chicken]

I always found them pointless. If it only displays in the game, there's one of two problems going on:

1. The player is an idiot and didn't read any of the marketing material or the store page. There is very little you can do for this kind of person. The warning won't even work on them because they're exactly the type of person to skip pop ups and tutorials without reading them. They cannot be helped or reasoned with.
2. The trailers, screenshots, and other marketing materials don't do a good job of conveying the game's feeling. A relaxing game should have chill trailers, an exciting game should have bombastic trailers, and a difficult game should have trailers where the player gets stomped on by enemies. Again, the pop up is pointless here because the customer already bought the game.

As far as my in-depth personal opinion, I will go through the entire message with my thoughts.

Serin Fate is deceivingly difficult, and you will DIE.

Why is it deceiving? Is there something outside of the game you can do to remedy the problem? Difficult games like Monster Hunter or Dark Souls remedy this by having their trailers focus on the player dying or getting hit by enemies repeatedly. Even unintentionally implying that the customer may have been deceived isn't a good look.

Serin Fate is not a peaceful, relaxing collection game at its core.

Again, why would you have to put this message in the game itself? The customer should know this before they bought the game. This can be solved by focusing screenshots almost entirely on combat.

Reading texts is crucial.

It's an RPG. This should be implied by default. If the problem is with players not reading dialogue right in their face, that's on them.

It is not perfect, or developed by a team, but I try my best.

Never a good idea to make comments like this. Of course your game isn't perfect, not a single game in existence is. This may not be your intention, but it reads as if you have very little faith in your game as-is. "I'm working on this game solo" should not be a shield. Let your hard work speak for itself.

 

[RichHopefulComposer]

@nacho_chicken: I thought this was a disclaimer for the Steam's store page, not for inside the game itself. Doesn't really make much sense inside the game after the customer's already bought it, like you said.
I like it, personally.

Also, I disagree that "this was made by one person" comes off as having no faith in his game. It just comes off as what it says, to me: "this was made by one person." From that, I expect a passionate, broad, experimental game, but one with maybe a bit of jank in it. That's not really a bad thing to me, and if I saw this disclaimer on a store page, I'd find it charming and I'd be more likely to buy. I like developers crazy enough to make everything themselves, and I like developers proud enough to list it right on the front page, hahah.

He mentioned in the OP that he was worried that people might get the wrong idea about his game because of the art style. I think this sort of disclaimer is fine. It just plainly tells the customer "this is what you're getting." It lets people who aren't into games like Harvest Moon know that this game focuses on a more "core" crowd, and it lets casual players know that the game might not be for them before they waste their time and money on it, and then go on to leave a negative review. It's a win for everybody, I think.

You could say "well the trailer should show all that!", and yeah, sure. But then why is there a description section on store pages at all? Why not just a trailer and nothing else? This is just a very blunt, clear-cut synopsis of the game. I like it!

 

[nacho_chicken]

@nacho_chicken: I thought this was a disclaimer for the Steam's store page, not for inside the game itself. Doesn't really make much sense inside the game after the customer's already bought it, like you said.
I like it, personally.

That makes sense. There's better ways of doing that, however, such as making the screenshots, trailers, and other marketing materials reflect that.

Also, I disagree that "this was made by one person" comes off as having no faith in his game. It just comes off as what it says, to me: "this was made by one person." From that, I expect a passionate, wide, experimental game, but one with maybe a bit of jank in it. That's not really a bad thing to me, and if I saw this disclaimer on a store page, I'd find it charming and I'd be more likely to buy. I like developers crazy enough to make everything themselves, and I like developers proud enough to list it right on the front page, hahah.

"This was made by one person" is fine. "It is not perfect, or developed by a team, but I try my best" is not the way you should word that. It is very easy to misread that as "the game has problems, please ignore them because [excuse]."

 

[RichHopefulComposer]

That makes sense. There's better ways of doing that, however, such as making the screenshots, trailers, and other marketing materials reflect that.

You could say "well the trailer should show all that!", and yeah, sure. But then why is there a description section on store pages at all? Why not just a trailer and nothing else? This is just a very blunt, clear-cut synopsis of the game. I like it!

"This was made by one person" is fine. "It is not perfect, or developed by a team, but I try my best" is not the way you should word that. It is very easy to misread that as "the game has problems, please ignore them because [excuse]."

Again, I disagree with that reading, but everyone is different. It's not possible to please everyone, but I personally like the wording. I tend to take what people say at face value for stuff like this though, so I don't read this too negatively. Obviously you're right that other people might not be as charitable as me, but....eh. You win some and lose some no matter how you word anything. Like I said, I found the wording charming.

Time for me to work, though. I am on the GMC because I don't want to program, noooooo ='D
I need to make my own Steam page instead of talking about other people's!

 

[nacho_chicken]

You could say "well the trailer should show all that!", and yeah, sure. But then why is there a description section on store pages at all? Why not just a trailer and nothing else? This is just a very blunt, clear-cut synopsis of the game. I like it!

I specifically mentioned screenshots and "other marketing materials," which would include the brief game description and the "About this game" section.

My problem is not that I think having this kind of disclaimer on the store page is bad per se, but that it's actively conflicting with the rest of the store page. Everything about the game screams "casual farming/adventure romp like Stardew Valley or Rune Factory." Nothing says "hardcore difficulty." Not the description. Not the trailer. Not the screenshots. Not the majority of the "About this game" section. Not the user-applied category tags. The fact that not even the negative reviews of the game are bringing up difficulty suggest to me that going out of your way to call the game a super-hardcore game, for real hardcore gamers isn't the best idea.

---

Perhaps a rewrite of the disclaimer would be helpful. Short and sweet is better. Harder to gloss over than multiple lines, and easier to digest. From what I can gather, "Your hand will not be held" is the message you are trying to convey. Do so in as few words as possible, so you can use the biggest, fattest font.

 

[Neptune]

Huh, I think it's honest and simple, and will hopefully bring more attention "hey... this game has some cute graphics, but it's also going to you up", if they happen to gloss over the trailer and all the combat and other descriptive text.
None the less, thanks for your input.

 

[woods]

Serin Fate is deceivingly difficult, and you will DIE.

Serin Fate is not a peaceful, relaxing collection game at its core.

Reading texts is crucial.

It is not perfect, or developed by a team, but I try my best.

point #1
lets everyone know up front that this is NOT CAREBEARS ... plain and simple this is a rough game.. even if it does have a "cutsie"look and feel to it, the world can and will kill you.

point #2
again.. the world can and will kill you. this game is HARD you need to think about what you are doing

point#3
duh! its an RPG game... skip skip skip ...what do i do?!

point #4
there may be bugs, and it will take time and commitment from ONE dedicated developer...
while this shows your passion and dedication, it does potentially promote a "LONG time for fixes and updates" type of vibe



3 out of 4 is spot on.
points 1 thru 3 are laid out pretty well i think..
tho #4 you never want to toot your own horn, nor do you want to sell yourself short.. pointing out that your a solo dev kinda screams "i am a broke inde developer and have no backing" which translates to "i am new, so i make crappy games"
(never paint yourself in a bad light)
i would recommend taking point#4 out entirely ;o)

 

[Neptune]

@woods Thank you, I really appreciate. After reading your input, I changed it a bit (particularly #4)

 

[Nocturne]

Tbh, if the game is tagged as rogue-like then the first four points are absolutely redundant imho. Everyone knows that roguelikes are tough, usually have reading, and require grinding. I'll be honest everything in that message puts me off the game, I'm afraid. I will explain why however so you can understand my psychology...

1) It's a game. Of course I'll die... And I don't like the use of the word "deceivingly" here. Deceit has NO good connotations as a word and implies untruth and lies... so you're basically saying that all the publicity about the game is lies? That the deaths you'll suffer when playing are unfair? It's just a wholly negative phrase and could be worded so much more positively! I mean, for example: "Serin Fate may look cute, but expect to die and be reborn a lot while playing!"

2) The same as above really... this feels like you're actively trying to tell people not to play. Again, try being more fun and positive! "The game has some relaxing moments, but at it's core Serin Fate is all about the action!"

3) AGAIN, this comes across as negative and mildly insulting... it's like you're saying "you may not be clever enough to play this game". Why not make it a positive point??? "The game is steeped in lore with rich and imaginative dialogue and text to explore!".

4) NOOOOOOOOO! Don't tell people there's a "hefty grind" involved! NOBODY LIKES GRINDING. Check out reviews of any RPG / roguelike game and you'll see that grinding is always a negative. BUT it's also an essential part of any game of this genre... as long as it's a FUN grind. So, again, some rewording here... "The path to strength and fortitude in Serin Fate is long, tough, but ultimately rewarding!".

5) This just reads like an excuse for bugs, sorry. Again, reword it in a positive light! "The game is the passion project of a solo developer who's striving to make the best experience possible for the player!"

So, yeah, sorry, I think the whole concept that you're going with here is just steeped in negativity and implies a lack of faith in your own creation and yourself. You need to really liven things up and try to use words that transmit a totally positive "vibe" and make people think that you yourself believe in the game!

I hope this helps you in some way...

PS: Moved to the game dev and design forum as this is a really interesting discussion and deserves to be there rather than off-topic.

 

[FrostyCat]

I just have to wonder why the hell you are even releasing this in the first place, if this is the level of confidence you have in the work.

 

[Neptune]

It's not the confidence in my work that is lacking, it's my confidence in people - their attention spans, and ability to approach new ideas with an open mind.

@Nocturne There is text that describes my game EVERYWHERE in a fun positive light "dive in to the churning depths of Magic, fight fearsome monsters, and explore labyrinthine mazes & rich lore blah blah!!" ... And it get's glossed over, and then people expecting a cutesy farming simulator (because of the aesthetic) buy, play, die, and then cry
The overhanging problem is I chose the wrong aesthetic for the type of gameplay, so I think there needs to be something more straight forward than fancy/fun text... That hopefully will really drive home what the game is before a final decision to play or not is made.

However I am absolutely telling people "for the love of god do not play if this warning scares you, or puts you off." The warning is true, and it'll just end in misery for everyone.

The last bit about being solo is just because I'm annoyed by "heh heh these devs insert some insult" ... I figure the less ignorance (or wrong ideas) heading into my game, the better.

 

[FrostyCat]

It's not the confidence in my work that is lacking, it's my confidence in people - their attention spans, and ability to approach new ideas with an open mind.

@Nocturne There is text that describes my game EVERYWHERE in a fun positive light "dive in to the churning depths of Magic, fight fearsome monsters, and explore labyrinthine mazes & rich lore blah blah!!" ... And it get's glossed over, and then people expecting a cutesy farming simulator (because of the aesthetic) buy, play, die, and then cry
The overhanging problem is I chose the wrong aesthetic for the type of gameplay, so I think there needs to be something more straight forward than fancy/fun text... That hopefully will really drive home what the game is before a final decision to play or not is made.

However I am absolutely telling people "for the love of god do not play if this warning scares you, or puts you off." The warning is true, and it'll just end in misery for everyone.

The last bit about being solo is just because I'm annoyed by "heh heh these devs insert some insult" ... I figure the less ignorance (or wrong ideas) heading into my game, the better.

If that's what your customers are led into believing, then you have the wrong screenshots and promotional art.

I don't care if those descriptions are everywhere in your game. Text is effective as a description, but ineffective as a differentiator. What you wrote sounds like something from Hero Wars or some related shovelware, which most Internet surfers are dead tired of. Of course they'd gloss over it, even a pedantic reader like me would too.

If that "looking atop the overworld" promotional thumbnail in your signature is what you are using, then you are just asking for it. A promotional thumbnail like that is appropriate for something more to the tune of Maple Story or LoZ Wind Waker, not a hardcore roguelike. If your game is about "fighting fearsome monsters", then have a promotional thumbnail showing a character "fighting fearsome monsters". If your game is about "exploring labyrinthine mazes", then have a promotional thumbnail showing a character "exploring labyrinthine mazes". If you have time to make that stupid disclaimer, you have time to make a new promotional thumbnail.

As for the "disclaimer", it says more about your own incompetence in developing and marketing the product, than it does about a prospective player's ability to make an informed decision. It serves no purpose other than as a way to vent how much self-hate you have. Your promotional material's purpose is to attract and repel at a distance, not turn people away once they are inside. I've seen these kinds of "disclaimers" once in a promo video for 100% Orange Juice (video link here), but even then the actual gameplay is forefront, and the disclaimers don't have the air of "I didn't want to release it but my mom made me" that yours do.

As much as you wanted to project the image of stupidity on prospective players, in the end you projected more of it on yourself than on them.

 

[Neptune]

You basically just reworded the problem I already presented @FrostyCat
I shouldn't have to make the promo art about Monsters, people should be able to read (because the game isnt JUST about Monsters either, and the trailer shows this..........)

As for the "disclaimer", it says more about your own incompetence in developing and marketing the product, than it does about a prospective player's ability to make an informed decision. It serves no purpose other than as a way to vent how much self-hate you have. Your promotional material's purpose is to attract and repel at a distance, not turn people away once they are inside. I've seen these kinds of "disclaimers" once in a promo video for 100% Orange Juice (video link here), but even then the actual gameplay is forefront, and the disclaimers don't have the air of "I didn't want to release it but my mom made me" that yours do.

Now I'm filled with self hate and incompetence?! ... But my mom made me wtf?
I don't even know why I entertain you... Your knowledge of code and your fancy vocabulary doesn't make up for you being a walking garbage can of negativity. How's that for truth and incompetence?

 

[Neptune]

@Nocturne @TsukaYuriko You may just want to close this (I don't know any other mod names off the top of my head)