Windows Diferent TileSet same Layer

[jonjons]

Hello
In gm1.4 it was possible to use diferent tilesets in the same layer.
In gm 2 changing the tileSet image also changes the level.

Will there be an update were the tile can be changed in the same layer ?

Without being able to change the tile color or the tiles image it creates an endless number of layers, and lots of images with useless details like the same image darker or brighter.

does it improve performance to use several layers instead of changing the tile color or use a diferent tileset in the same layer like in gm1.4 ?

 

[MarceloP]

Can't you re-arrange your tileset/sprite so that the same variation of things are within the same sprite?
It's not very common a tile layer to have more than one tileset (I don't think I've ever seen this), the hole point of tileset is to use the same sheet as base for everything that need to be tiled.

My recommendation would be for you to group your tiles in such a way that you can have the variations you need in the same tileset and, if you need more changes, put then in more layers. Subdividing it may help you to have 2 or 3 layers and a bunch of choices in within the same tileset to use.

Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong about multiple tilesets on the same layer =X

 

[jonjons]

Can't you re-arrange your tileset/sprite so that the same variation of things are within the same sprite?

Can you ?
do you have an example ?

 

[MarceloP]

I don't have a "ready to show" example, because my tilesets are usually very specific for parts of my games. But usually those old rpg maker tilesets are kindda like that.

https://vxresource.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/tilea1.png
This is simply an example, I don't own any license or ownership over this sample I've just shared.

The main purpose of that tileset is to keep those things that are the tile changes, so that you're able to change the whole map in within the same layer, or even change an already set tile to a complete new ambiance by only changing tile color schemes.
I mean, unless all assets of your tileset changes color with an ambiance change, I'd choose something like this.

If you REALLY need to change the ambiance, it is the same change for all the map, and doesn't want to create a tileset for each an every ambiance change, I'd advise you to create a shader since with it you'd be able to actually change the feel of the map and not even change the tileset xD.

Don't know if this will help you, but those are simply some tips/suggestions. It really depends on your problem/situation.

 

[jonjons]

I understand what you are trying to explain... i did in the frist post.
but iam always seeing people using top down tiles, and it seems the person who designed the engine had that concept in mind... From what i can understand what it is now is right and everything else is wrong...

Its really sad really, because the old engine had a lot more things convered, except for the tile zoom window and tools missing.

here s an example of a simple tile 32x32 tile doing a lot of things with just the brightness and darkness:

Its all the same tile... the 1st no color / dark / bright change.
the 2nd the brightness and darkness change.

The grey roof/floor in the top and down of the building i frogot post it in the image... but its a 32x32 tile with a black square behind it with an alpha of 60%.. 16 px for the greys, 16 px for the black alpha.
It can be put on top of any tile it makes a shadow.

Now adding all this and wanting to use diferent buildings in other sprite tiles... imagine how many unnecessary layers, repeated tiles, etc... will take.

 

[Miradur]

Hi, it's called shadow, and so you can. Just set a shadow_layer with the same tile set where you set alpha to 60%
or something similar.

Miradur

 

[MarceloP]

I understand what you mean @jonjons . Bu can't you use a shader or layer only painted with black (or a black sprite) with the alpha changed only to make the tiles darker?
If you think it's better, even a shader could easily make darker those tiles.

If you want to have a whole town out of the same tileset, you can. The whole layer can be of the same tileset and darkness and shadowing be made with the black sprite and the alpha channel. Tiles are usually things that won't need to change their draw mode with frequency and are usually steady until you have room/scenes changes (although there are a bunch of functions as well for working with tiles (inside the tilemap) in GM2).

If you still need to change somehow the tileset in the middle of a room, well, I think you should break it in parts, like most games do, so that they can change the room/scene and change their assets/sprite sheets/tilesets.
Talking about brightness and darkness, the best option, for sure, not creating copies of tiles that are darker, but only using alpha channels and sprites.

 

[Miradur]

I don't really understand the problem, in GM 2 we have layer, so why not use. In old games the shadows were made
with the same tile set used for the levels. Only with the difference that the tiles were dyed black. Thus the tiles had the
same outline and could be used as shadows.
The layers of GM2 are designed for this, if necessary, you can also make 20 layers with the same tile set and will not
notice any loss of speed.

Miradur

 

[Deleted member 13992]

Something I wished we could do.

So far I've been merging all my environmental tiles that I expect to use in a room into a single massive tileset. Like 64 tiles along both edges, sort of thing. Good for thousands of tiles, but it makes things complicated to manage.

 

[jonjons]

The 1st thing ive tried was using a direferent layer for the shadows and brithness but the colors are very dificult to match. Its better to use the same tileset image witch made almost the entire image... i ended up using an asset layer with a white and black square sprite...

The main problem apart from the shadows is to many layers... creating new layers just to fetch small parts from other tileset images, its the kind of thing that leave me confused, and trying to find a way around... gm1.4 had the option to use diferent images in a layer... gm 2 doesnt ... Why ? beacause its better ?whatever....

 

[Miradur]

Then it's a basic understanding you lack. Just for comparison, you don't sit in front of Photoshop and think, hm,
in the past I could draw everything in one picture, why do I have so many layers now?

Once you realize the many advantages of layers, you won't want to miss them.
And don't forget, you can also create layer during the runtime and automatically fill them with tiles.


Miradur

 

[jonjons]

Then it's a basic understanding you lack. Just for comparison, you don't sit in front of Photoshop and think, hm,
in the past I could draw everything in one picture, why do I have so many layers now?

This is the kind of stuff that really lets me down...Didnt you never saw anyone merge layers in photoshop? You say those absurd things because you ve never done it.
The reason why diferent tiles cant be drawn in the same layer in GM2 its because of the TileAnimation stuff.
Well at least you got you're way, it works for you and 5 or 6 other people.
Maybe the smart thing to do, its just to not say anything about it, and move on.