Discussion Cultural Appropriation

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Cantavanda, Dec 31, 2018.

  1. Cantavanda

    Cantavanda 〜Flower Prince〜

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    Hello!
    There's something I don't understand at all... what's wrong with "cultural appropriation"?
    As I understand the defenition, it's when a dominant culture such as white people take over certain elements of another smaller culture, and people see that as oppression and get very angry at it.
    For example, when Kim Kardashian or any white celebrities change their hairstyle to braids or dreadlocks, this is seen as oppression or cultural appropriation, the same with nose rings, or references to other cultures in music videos or movies. For example, the person that won the last Eurovision, while being terrible music, was also criticized for appropriating Chinese culture, as an Israeli woman, and that's what I don't understand.

    What's wrong with using elements of other cultures that you like? It seems like a honour or a hommage to that culture in my point of view. Yes, dreads/braids are typically of other cultures, but if a white person wants to rock them, isn't that person saying they love the element of that culture? And if the person in other aspects isn't a discriminatory person, what the crap is wrong with it? And why do people make such a big deal about it?

    Every culture appropriates other cultures in a way, since the history of humanity. It's true that white European civilisation has oppressed and colonised a lot of other cultures, which is terrible, but I don't see how that affects an European woman getting a nose ring and dreads.

    Plez exploin
     
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  2. Niels

    Niels Member

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    IMHO people are too oversensitive to these (and other) matters these days.
     
  3. Cantavanda

    Cantavanda 〜Flower Prince〜

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    It might be, but I'd like to find someone convinced it's wrong and hear their arguments on these matters, to maybe learn of it.
     
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  4. Roa

    Roa Member

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    It's just another tactic from the ever more radicalized progressives to divide people. It's an 'ethnic purity' thing for them, where they see anything that could be considered a stereotyped token identifier of a race/religion/culture in a culture they think it doesn't normally fit in and deem it as an eraser of the culture vs it simply being merged into an environment where it may not be prominent, as if 'authenticity' and adaptions can't exist in the same world. And even though those pieces of culture identification are still over whelming represented by people in their respective background, it's not pure enough if "white people" would enjoy it or be the dominate skin color in an area, which is their main problem with it. It's just more racist white bashing and looking down on other cultures in general, trying to box them in. They say this all while feeling "white culture"(anything they grew up in vs anything foreign to them) has no intrinsic value to other cultures either, because they are too stupid to realize that while living in a culture, its hard to see how it reflects back to others.


    It's just another not so low-key way for self-loathing narcissist to be racist and puritanical authoritarians without need for introspection....again.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
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  5. Misty

    Misty Member

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    Basically, its a bunch of fascists who get together and dictate what is moral/immoral, what is inappropriate/appropriate, for instance now they shame you for wearing politically incorrect costumes its taboo to even have halloween nowadays, all they do is monitor microaggressions and their goal is to turn society into weakling, goodie two shoes, obedient worker drone sheep, if you use a machine gun to defend your own property you go to jail, and they feel sorry for the robbers and call them victims, its insane
     
  6. chance

    chance predictably random Forum Staff Moderator

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    By whom? News reporters looking for attention?

    Seriously, most people don't care. If middle class white kids from the suburbs wear dreadlocks or talk like black gangsta's, nobody really cares. Those kids are free to humiliate themselves. So let them and move on.
     
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  7. Ninety

    Ninety Member

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    basically chance, its where a white person says "finna", and then the radical fascist marxist maoist joseph goebbels horde literally kills them
     
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  8. chance

    chance predictably random Forum Staff Moderator

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    @Ninety: yes, that's a serious concern. I see this in the news almost daily.
     
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  9. Druid TC

    Druid TC Yellow Dog

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    @Ninety you have to be mindful of what's called 'outrage tactics', I've seen a lot about it popping up in my newsfeed recently which is a good thing as it's raising awareness of the sorts of misinformation that are spread. There will always be a small minority of people who have very loud voices and like to complain about small insignificant things. They're nothing to worry about and don't typically accomplish anything, but it's a strategy of certain media publications to hype up the amount of furor they're generating. They use words like 'outrage' and 'backlash' to make it appear that these minorities represent a much larger group of people; typically feminists and black rights activists for example. This has the effect of turning the readers of these publications against these groups, and distracting from the real issues that these groups are trying to deal with.
     
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  10. Ninety

    Ninety Member

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    @Druid TC don't worry, I was only making a sarcastic jab at Misty. I'm well aware of how the cultural appropriation backlash gets leveraged by the media.
     
  11. Druid TC

    Druid TC Yellow Dog

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    @Ninety Ah now that is a cause I can get behind ;)
     
  12. Mert

    Mert Member

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    Here's a report from past :D (To the feminism topic)

    "In one season of the Dutch version of "Survivor," the men and women were split and given their own islands. At the end of 8 days, the men had a "Cafe on the beach," while the women were stealing from each other and had not yet built a hut; the women approved of a tribe merger."
     
  13. chance

    chance predictably random Forum Staff Moderator

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    Well said. An excellent summary of the issue.

    Ironically, there's been many reports in the media about the tendency of the media to hype / exaggerate the "outrage" against particular social issues.

    Perhaps the greater lesson here is that "the media" isn't a monolithic group with a single voice. The media supports no particular agenda. The media supports every possible agenda.
     
  14. Misty

    Misty Member

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    both fox news and libercrats are the same agenda. Enslavement of the human race.
     
  15. TheouAegis

    TheouAegis Member

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    http://www.returnofkings.com/32053/this-accidental-experiment-shows-the-superiority-of-patriarchy

    I never watched Survivor, but that is pretty funny.
     
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  16. Misty

    Misty Member

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  17. Ninety

    Ninety Member

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    In fairness, game shows like Survivor literally seek out unhinged people to fill their cast. Makes for better entertainment I guess.
     
  18. Cantavanda

    Cantavanda 〜Flower Prince〜

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    Guys let's please not turn this into a liberal-feminist hating topic... Let's keep on the subject of cultural appropriation.
     
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  19. Misty

    Misty Member

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    As I said before, I have no political affiliation because I think all American political parties are stupid. I hate all political parties but each for unique reasons.

    The subject, of cultural appropriation, there is nothing more to discuss. It's just liberals and feminists who try to make it an issue when there is no issue, and nothing to discuss. If a white boy wants to be Eddie Murphy on Halloween, its not really my problem. It's not really our right to tell others what they can or can dress up as.
     
  20. TheouAegis

    TheouAegis Member

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    I want to dress up as Gallagher and go trick-or-treating. They open the door, they'll say, "who are you supposed to be?" And I'll shout, "I'm Gallagher and your head is a watermelon!"
     
  21. Misty

    Misty Member

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    I've played Galaga but never heard of Gallagher. I googled and he is a comic up beats up innocent watermelons for no reason.
     
  22. chance

    chance predictably random Forum Staff Moderator

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    Thought about this discussion at the New Year's Eve party in my town square. Mostly young people there (near midnight), but some oldsters like myself. Some were dressed like 20-30 year olds. Funny but hey, it's their choice to look foolish.

    Guess you'd call it "age appropriation".
     
  23. Druid TC

    Druid TC Yellow Dog

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    I'm hesitant to comment on this topic since I'm not a cultured person. I'm not particularly invested in any sort of culture myself and can't comprehend the idea of holding one's culture so closely as to be offended by other people mimicking it. I guess I'm of the mind that the opposing viewpoint is held by those whose culture is still important, but who instead want the show that importance by sharing their culture and letting others enjoy it; not by people like me who don't have any sense of what it means to be part of a strong and vibrant culture.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
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  24. Cloaked Games

    Cloaked Games Member

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    In case you're interested in the other side of the issue, I will try to explain a little bit in answer to your question. I do not think I will respond to further replies to this topic however.

    You're original definition is basically correct. Cultural appropriation is when a "dominant" (majority accepted culture) in a society takes aspects from another culture that is experiencing oppression. In America that would be white people taking cultural aspects from African Americans. This is different from the "all cultures share with all other cultures" because it also involves a difference in power. In this case, white people have more power in society than the respective black Americans whose culture is being appropriated. That's a little different than being on equal terms with someone or some people and sharing your culture with them. (And, in the case that someone is invited to participate in the aspect of culture in question, that is perfectly acceptable).

    Cultural appropriation becomes a problem for more complicated reasons than just, "someone feels oppressed and they get mad." Sometimes, using other aspects of another culture is used to continue the oppression of that less empowered culture. For example: stealing artwork made by another people and using it to sell T-shirts. That's copyright violation anyways, but it can also be cultural appropriation when another more powerful culture is profiting from stealing work made by other cultures. (As apposed to just stealing particular individuals).

    Sometimes cultural appropriation becomes a problem if the dominant culture fails to give proper credit to the original culture. Failing to recognize that a particular style of art or music or fashion comes from a particular culture degrades the culture itself. Especially if the dominant culture takes credit themselves (as in the case mentioned above). This is bad because it re-enforces the power difference between the two cultures. The minority culture actually looses part of what makes them unique among an otherwise dominant majority culture. This can be seen in your example: sometimes white celebrities take a particular hair-style from black culture. A white person with dreadlocks isn't an issue, but a white celebrity who uses it as part of their "new" look is. Sometimes even, a black person will receive criticism for the same exact hair-style.

    Another issue is that it creates and maintains stereo-types. When only certain parts of a culture is used in a mainstream context, it begins to appear to people who are not otherwise aware of that culture that the culture in question is only the part that is shown by the dominant culture. Such as the widespread perception of Native Americans as being savage warriors, because partly of the way that the image of an "Indian Warrior" is used as a mascot for companies or sport's teams. Stereo-types are a whole other essay, but basically they also support the power divide between the cultures, simplifying an entire group of people to fit them into a particular box.

    Is it bad to borrow parts of a culture that you like? Not at all. The issue is when you do that from a position of power, privileged or otherwise unfair advantage. Culture appropriation is when that "borrowing of culture" becomes more like "stealing of culture". Without giving proper credit, benefiting unfairly from other's works, or when the aspects borrowed do not show a full picture of the original culture creating stereotypes.

    Hope that helps.

    For reference, here is the article I mostly used for fact-checking. I formatted my response in the same way as this article, though I explained with my own knowledge from studying this subject before. (https://au.reachout.com/articles/why-cultural-appropriation-isnt-cool). Their article might be a bit easier to read, sorry I rambled.
     
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  25. chance

    chance predictably random Forum Staff Moderator

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    It's interesting that some cultures are more likely to feel resentment (such as American black culture), while other cultures seldom do (such as Irish culture). I think you (@Cloaked Games) make an excellent argument why this is so.
     
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  26. Cantavanda

    Cantavanda 〜Flower Prince〜

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    Thank you @Cloaked Games , I learned from your answer and the article you posted. It's not 100% understood by me, but I'll keep thinking about it.
     
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