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Amon

Member
You must read and agree to posting in your native language only when you have a translated version of your post, underneath, in English.

I see many times people having their threads locked because they don't post in english. This is a wordly forum, and all are welcome. To discriminate against those who have not enhanced yet, or even learned how to speak, read and write in english; locking their threads, seems like one big kick in the teeth for them.

So, how about allowing them to post in their native language with the condition that an english translated version be included in their post, also?

*** I said the word discriminate. That might be a bit harsh but it's the only word that came to mind, that closely matches what happens here to non english speakers/readers/writers.

GREEK:
Prépei na diavásete kai na symfonísete na dimosiévete sti mitrikí sas glóssa móno ótan échete metafrasméni ékdosi tis anártisís sas, apó káto, sta Angliká.

Vlépo pollés forés átoma na échoun kleidoména ta nímata tous epeidí den dimosiévoun sta angliká. Aftó eínai éna fóroum me léxeis kai óloi eínai efprósdektoi. Na kánoun diakríseis enantíon óson den échoun veltiotheí akómi, í akómi échoun máthei pós na miloún, na diavázoun kai na gráfoun sta angliká. Kleídoma ton nimáton tous, tous faínetai san éna megálo láktisma sta dóntia.

Loipón, ti tha légate na tous epitrépsete na dimosiéfsoun sti mitrikí tous glóssa, me tin proüpóthesi óti mia metáfrasi sta angliká tha symperiliftheí epísis stin anártisí tous?

*** Eípa ti léxi diákrisi. Aftó boreí na eínai lígo skliró, allá eínai i móni léxi pou mou írthe sto myaló, pou tairiázei apólyta me aftó pou symvaínei edó me tous mi anglófonous/anagnóstes/syngrafeís.

SPANISH:
Debe leer y aceptar publicar en su idioma nativo solo cuando tenga una versión traducida de su publicación, debajo, en inglés.

Veo muchas veces que la gente tiene sus hilos bloqueados porque no publican en inglés. Este es un foro mundano y todos son bienvenidos. Para discriminar a los que aún no han mejorado, ni siquiera han aprendido a hablar, leer y escribir en inglés; bloquear sus hilos, parece una gran patada en los dientes para ellos.

Entonces, ¿qué tal si les permitimos publicar en su idioma nativo con la condición de que también se incluya una versión traducida al inglés en su publicación?

*** Dije la palabra discriminar. Eso puede ser un poco duro, pero es la única palabra que me vino a la mente, que se asemeja mucho a lo que les sucede aquí a los que no hablan inglés / lectores / escritores.

ARABIC:
يجب أن تقرأ وتوافق على النشر بلغتك الأم فقط عندما يكون لديك نسخة مترجمة من مشاركتك ، تحتها ، باللغة الإنجليزية.

أرى مرات عديدة أن هناك أشخاصًا يتم قفل سلاسل رسائلهم لأنهم لا ينشرون باللغة الإنجليزية. هذا منتدى كلامي ، والجميع مرحب به. للتمييز ضد أولئك الذين لم يتحسنوا بعد ، أو حتى تعلموا التحدث والقراءة والكتابة باللغة الإنجليزية ؛ قفل خيوطهم ، يبدو وكأنه ركلة واحدة كبيرة في الأسنان بالنسبة لهم.

لذا ، ماذا عن السماح لهم بالنشر بلغتهم الأم بشرط تضمين نسخة مترجمة باللغة الإنجليزية في منشوراتهم أيضًا؟

*** قلت كلمة تميز. قد يكون هذا قاسيًا بعض الشيء ، لكنها الكلمة الوحيدة التي تتبادر إلى الذهن ، والتي تتطابق بشكل وثيق مع ما يحدث هنا لغير المتحدثين باللغة الإنجليزية / القراء / الكتاب.

CHINESE TRADITIONAL:
您必須閱讀並同意以您的母語發布,只有當您的帖子下方有英文翻譯版本時。

我看到很多人因為他們沒有用英文發帖而被鎖定了他們的帖子。這是一個文字論壇,歡迎所有人。歧視那些還沒有提高,甚至還沒有學會說、讀和寫英語的人;鎖定他們的線程,對他們來說似乎是一個很大的打擊。

那麼,允許他們用他們的母語發帖,條件是在他們的帖子中也包含英文翻譯版本怎麼樣?

*** 我說的是歧視這個詞。這可能有點苛刻,但這是唯一想到的詞,它與非英語人士/讀者/作家在這裡發生的情況非常吻合。

CHINESE SIMPLIFIED
您必须阅读并同意以您的母语发布,只有当您的帖子下方有英文翻译版本时。

我看到很多人因为他们没有用英文发帖而将他们的帖子锁定。这是一个文字论坛,欢迎所有人。歧视那些还没有提高,甚至还没有学会说、读和写英语的人;锁定他们的线程,对他们来说似乎是一个很大的打击。

那么,允许他们用他们的母语发帖,条件是在他们的帖子中也包含英文翻译版本怎么样?

*** 我说的是歧视这个词。这可能有点苛刻,但这是唯一想到的词,它与非英语人士/读者/作家在这里发生的情况非常吻合。

GERMAN:

Sie müssen das Posten in Ihrer Muttersprache nur dann lesen und akzeptieren, wenn Sie eine übersetzte Version Ihres Posts darunter in Englisch haben.

Ich sehe oft, dass Leute ihre Threads gesperrt haben, weil sie nicht auf Englisch posten. Dies ist ein weltliches Forum, und alle sind willkommen. Um diejenigen zu diskriminieren, die noch nicht Englisch sprechen, lesen und schreiben können oder gar nicht gelernt haben; ihre Fäden zu verriegeln, scheint für sie wie ein großer Tritt in die Zähne zu sein.

Wie wäre es also, wenn sie ihnen erlauben, in ihrer Muttersprache zu posten, mit der Bedingung, dass auch eine ins Englische übersetzte Version in ihren Beitrag aufgenommen wird?

*** Ich sagte das Wort diskriminieren. Das mag ein bisschen hart sein, aber es ist das einzige Wort, das mir in den Sinn kam, das sehr gut mit dem übereinstimmt, was hier mit Nicht-Englisch-Sprechern/Lesern/Schriftstellern passiert.

PORTUGUESE:
Você deve ler e concordar em postar em seu idioma nativo somente quando tiver uma versão traduzida de sua postagem, abaixo, em inglês.

Eu vejo muitas vezes pessoas com seus tópicos bloqueados porque não postam em inglês. Este é um fórum mundano e todos são bem-vindos. Discriminar quem ainda não se aprimorou, ou mesmo não aprendeu a falar, ler e escrever em inglês; travar seus fios, parece um grande chute nos dentes para eles.

Então, que tal permitir que eles postem em seu idioma nativo com a condição de que uma versão traduzida para o inglês também seja incluída em sua postagem?

*** Eu disse a palavra discriminar. Isso pode ser um pouco duro, mas é a única palavra que me vem à mente, que se assemelha muito ao que acontece aqui com falantes / leitores / escritores que não falam inglês.

RUSSIAN:

Вы должны прочитать и согласиться на публикацию на своем родном языке только в том случае, если у вас есть переведенная версия вашего сообщения на английском языке.

Я часто вижу, что у людей блокируются темы, потому что они не пишут на английском. Это мирской форум, и мы рады всем. Дискриминация тех, кто еще не совершенствовался или даже не научился говорить, читать и писать по-английски; запирать их нити, кажется им одним большим ударом по зубам.

Итак, как насчет того, чтобы разрешить им публиковать сообщения на их родном языке с условием, что в их пост также будет включена переведенная на английский язык версия?

*** Я сказал слово «различать». Это может быть немного сурово, но это единственное слово, которое пришло в голову, которое близко соответствует тому, что происходит здесь с не говорящими по-английски / читателями / писателями.
 
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Evanski

Raccoon Lord
Forum Staff
Moderator
I do think locking the topics out right is a bit harsh,

i often provide short translations of "hey please use english to better help us help you all" so if they dont know a lick of english at least the general idea is translated

imagine a caveman sitting
you say hello
he makes a bad ooga booga
then wacks you

not exactly friendly
 
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This idea is relevant considering this is the official forum for GMS for members to turn to for help, and GMS IDE do have multiple localizations, thus its userbase are not limited to only those capable of using English even at an elementary level; unless there's a sister or affiliate forum for other languages they can turn to that'd be a different story, which ideally the link to those affiliate should be provided in a sticky/pinned topic. One solution I can think of is to create a general purpose (un-indexed) section dedicated to non-English speaking members to post whatever help they need in their native language while indicating in their topic what language they using, with disclaimer note that they might not receive the help they need if there is/are no knowledgeable member(s) capable of communicating in their language, thus the preferred language to use in this forum remain English, even though after posting in English they might still not receive any help - like I've experienced multiple times. LOL
 

TsukaYuriko

☄️
Forum Staff
Moderator
So, how about allowing them to post in their native language with the condition that an english translated version be included in their post, also?
We already allow this and, in fact, encourage it especially in cases where people are proficient in their native language but not in English. This is because including the post in their native language may hold some information that can get lost in translation and will allow other native speakers of that language to catch on to that.
 

Mert

Member
I think it's not just about the language, it's about the attitude. Most of the locked topics I see is exactly like this:

"People asking for something in their native language"... :banana: 😅

X://bin/GMAssetCompiler.exe DONE (0)
Release build
OptionsIni
Options: Z:/MyPlatform_3A8AE720_8BA56E8B\PlatformOptions.json
[Compile] Run asset compiler
C:\Windows\system32\cmd.exe /c ""X://bin/GMAssetCompiler.exe" /c /zpex /mv=1 /iv=0 /rv=0 /bv=0 /j=16 /gn="MyPlatformGame1" /td="Y:/" /cd="Z:/MyPlatform_3A8AE720_8BA56E8B" /zpuf="C:\Users\ray\AppData\Roaming/GameMakerStudio2\xXfreddyXx4553_1968702" /m=windows /tgt=64 /nodnd /cfg="default" /o="Y:/MyPlatformGame1_4E3CB5C6_VM" /sh=True /optionsini="Y:/MyPlatformGame1_4E3CB5C6_VM\options.ini" /cvm /baseproject="X:/BaseProject\BaseProject.yyp" "C:\Users\ray\Documents\GameMakerStudio2\MyPlatformGame1.yyp" /bt=run"
Reading project file....C:\Users\ray\Documents\GameMakerStudio2
Reading project file....X:\BaseProject
Reading config delta 'C:\Users\ray\Documents\GameMakerStudio2\options\main\inherited\options_main.inherited.yy'
finished.
Compile Constants...finished.
Remove DnD...finished.
Compile Scripts...finished.
Compile Objects...System.FormatException: Input string was not in a correct format.
at System.Text.StringBuilder.FormatError()
at System.Text.StringBuilder.AppendFormatHelper(IFormatProvider provider, String format, ParamsArray args)
at System.String.FormatHelper(IFormatProvider provider, String format, ParamsArray args)
at GMAssetCompiler.GMLCompile.(List`1 , List`1 , Int32 )
at GMAssetCompiler.GMLCompile.(List`1 , List`1 , Int32 )
at GMAssetCompiler.GMLCompile.(List`1 , List`1 , Int32 )
at GMAssetCompiler.GMLCompile.(List`1 , List`1 , Int32 )
at GMAssetCompiler.GMLCompile.(List`1 , List`1 , Int32 )
at GMAssetCompiler.GMLCompile.(List`1 , List`1 , Int32 )
at GMAssetCompiler.GMLCompile.(List`1 , List`1 , Int32 )
at GMAssetCompiler.GMLCompile.(List`1 , List`1 , Int32 )
at GMAssetCompiler.GMLCompile.(List`1 , List`1 , Int32 )
at GMAssetCompiler.GMLCompile.(List`1 , List`1 , Int32 )
at GMAssetCompiler.GMLCompile.(GMAssets , String , String , List`1& , Boolean , Boolean )
finished.
Compile Timelines...finished.
Compile Triggers...finished.
Compile Rooms...finished.
Compile Extensions...finished.
Global scripts...finished.
collapsing enums.
Final Compile...finished.
Saving IFF file... Y:/MyPlatformGame1_4E3CB5C6_VM\MyPlatformGame1.win
Writing Chunk... GEN8
option_game_speed=60
Writing Chunk... OPTN
Writing Chunk... LANG
Writing Chunk... EXTN
Writing Chunk... SOND
Writing Chunk... AGRP
Writing Chunk... SPRT
Writing Chunk... BGND
Writing Chunk... PATH
Writing Chunk... SCPT
Writing Chunk... GLOB
Writing Chunk... SHDR
Writing Chunk... FONT
Writing Chunk... TMLN
Writing Chunk... OBJT
Writing Chunk... ROOM
Writing Chunk... DAFL
Writing Chunk... EMBI
Writing Chunk... TPAGE
Texture Group - Default
Writing Chunk... TGIN
Writing Chunk... CODE
Writing Chunk... VARI
Writing Chunk... FUNC
Writing Chunk... STRG
Writing Chunk... TXTR
0 Compressing texture... writing texture texture_0.png...
Writing Chunk... AUDO
Writing Chunk... SCPT
Writing Chunk... DBGI
Writing Chunk... INST
Writing Chunk... LOCL
Writing Chunk... STRG
Stats : GMA : Elapsed=636.4663
Stats : GMA : sp=19,au=0,bk=0,pt=0,sc=0,sh=0,fo=0,tl=0,ob=15,ro=5,da=0,ex=0,ma=1232,fm=0x200449280020


C:\Windows\system32\cmd.exe exited with non-zero status (1)
elapsed time 00:00:02.3831274s for command "C:\ProgramData/GameMakerStudio2/Cache/runtimes\runtime-2.2.1.287/bin/Igor.exe" -options="C:\Users\ray\AppData\Local\GameMakerStudio2\GMS2TEMP\build.bff" -- Windows Run started at 03/24/2019 17:05:59
"cmd" /c subst Z: /d

elapsed time 00:00:00.0260071s for command "cmd" /c subst Z: /d started at 03/24/2019 17:06:02
"cmd" /c subst Y: /d

elapsed time 00:00:00.0270058s for command "cmd" /c subst Y: /d started at 03/24/2019 17:06:02
"cmd" /c subst X: /d

elapsed time 00:00:00.0260061s for command "cmd" /c subst X: /d started at 03/24/2019 17:06:02
FAILED: Run Program Complete

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edit : Would be nice if there's a separate box that shows the English translation(or automated translation) of the original text
 

Nocturne

Friendly Tyrant
Forum Staff
Admin
We absolutely encourage people to post in their own language as long as they include a translation... there is no problem with that there never has been and there never will be. Also note that most of the time myself or the other staff members will actively try and translate our message into the language of the original poster before locking the topic. However sometimes that is not possible due to time or work pressures... for example yesterday I locked a topic without giving a translation which is what I'm sure prompted this topic... However that person did not take offence and went ahead and posted a new topic in English and there was no problem, especially as I did explain in my reply why the topic was locked.

Please understand that YoYo games is a British company, and as such it's only natural that the official forums use English especially as it makes everything neater and easier for everyone to understand when we all use the same language.

I will however look into adding a message to the sign up page that explicitly states this and apologises for it... I would love everyone to be able to be comfortable and speak their own language here but unfortunately that is just not possible.
 

Chaser

Member
I did see the post yesterday and I have to say I was a little surprised at the comment and the locked thread. It did seem a little harsh and unfriendly. Sorry, but it did.
Although I understand that YoYo is a British company, and get that the forum needs to be English speaking, but there are a lot of users in different countries that don’t speak English. I personally don’t see a problem with other languages in the forum. It takes 5 seconds to copy paste to translate it in a tab, might not be that accurate, but enough to give the gist of the post. Also it wasn’t that long ago YoYo were proud to have released GMS2 more languages! But what was the point if they are not gong to be supported in the one place they should be able to, the forum.
Why not just have sections in the forum for other language speakers? Then those that speak that language are more likely to respond and help from other language speakers. Those that don’t can just leave it instead of locking the thread. It’s better to suggest and English translation for a quicker response, but no way should the threads be locked and told to write in English. It does come across a bit discriminatory, and we know that’s not the case, as this is a very helpful forum with very helpful users.
 

TsukaYuriko

☄️
Forum Staff
Moderator
I personally don’t see a problem with other languages in the forum. It takes 5 seconds to copy paste to translate it in a tab, might not be that accurate, but enough to give the gist of the post.
If responders should spend 5 seconds (per reader) to translate the post, why shouldn't a single person spend 5 seconds to translate their post? ;) If anything, those who are seeking help owe it to those who offer help to make it as easy as possible for them.

Why not just have sections in the forum for other language speakers? Then those that speak that language are more likely to respond and help from other language speakers.
This would split the user base even further than all the concurrently existing GM forums / Reddits / Discord servers / IRC channels / mailing lists / scout groups / you name it already do.

Logistically, it's also unfeasible.
If we make separate copies of all forums for other languages... which languages will we include? The languages the IDE supports? That's a LOT of forums, even if we just copy the most commonly used ones. Also, then the next request will be "add a forum for language XYZ"... and the problem multiplies itself.
If we don't copy all forums, we could make a single forum per language... and then have all of the different kinds of topics mixed together. Programming questions, technical questions, game design discussions, tutorials... imagine the chaos.
We could also have a single "international" forum... but again, imagine the chaos if this forum sees a sizable amount of traffic. That part of the community would be in complete and utter disarray.

Also, who will maintain and moderate this? I speak two languages and partially speak three others, so I could moderate at most five forums - and that's already a stretch. Do we then hire moderators to take care of the remaining dozens of languages? At which point will it be enough? What do we do with the content that isn't in any of the officially supported languages?

This would be a maintenance nightmare.


The way I see it, if a portion of the user base speaks a specific language, you'll likely find a fan-made community for it. Or two, or three, probably even across different services. They have their place and right to exist, because this is not something the GMC offers. If the GMC then also introduced another community that aims to unify all of these... well, we'd have this situation, but with communities. :)

 

Nocturne

Friendly Tyrant
Forum Staff
Admin
I did see the post yesterday and I have to say I was a little surprised at the comment and the locked thread. It did seem a little harsh and unfriendly.
However sometimes that is not possible due to time or work pressures...
Yes, I can see how that post of mine came across badly, and it wasn't my intention. Most of the time when I reply I do my best to explain why English is a rule and also include a (google translated) reply in the OP language. Tbh, I think that this is pretty much a non-issue and that ONE reply - made when I really didn't have much time, and yes, I accept that I probably shouldn't have replied if that was the case - is the only reason this topic exists in the first place! We get very few posts from people in anything other than English and when they do they are generally translated by staff and politely requested to use English, and there are no further problems. I don't really think there is much more that can be said on the topic... I apologise to all those who thought my reply was harsh (but note that the person that made that topic LIKED my reply and then posted another topic in English, so it obviously wasn't an issue for them 😅 ), and I will also add a message into the sign-up page explaining this rule.

With that I'm going to close this topic as I don't think there is much more to discuss. There is no "solution" to this "problem" that can work other than the one we currently have, which is to enforce a strict "one language only" policy, and we (the staff) will strive to be as courteous as possible while enforcing the rule.
 
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